How Does Punch Through Work Exactly ?

[Lutesque]

Okay so it seems like theres some confilcting details made by different people regarding Punch Through....

One dude says that Punch Through value determines a weapon's ability to penetrate through Solid Surfaces depending on how thick it is..... another dude says Punch through only takes affect once a weapon's Projectile collides with something.... from there  punch through value determines how far from the initial collision that projectile will Pass through well.... anything with in that distance....

More importantly how do the interactions differ between Hitscan and Projectile Weapons ? 

 

BTW.... no Wiki Links please....  I mean you can if you want but I won't click on it....

[Lutesque]

8 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

Just went to the simulacrum real quick. It depends on the enemy. It has trouble penetrating a bombard. Put punch through mod on it, and it worked just fine, with 6 to 7 meters between the enemies. There is no problem with penetrating a butcher, even without punch through mods.

Maybe its a network thing.....

 

[AndouRaiton]

No wiki links, so how about a video link instead.

 

[Lutesque]

20 minutes ago, AndouRaiton said:

No wiki links, so how about a video link instead.

 

Leysar was actually the one that caused this confusion to begin with.... in any case.... I shall bath my eye balls in this series of moving Pictures.... give me a moment....

Edit:

Okay so as the bullet passes through each target its Punch Through gets reduced by that Target's Thickness ? 

Speaking of Thickness...

 

Edited July 22, 2019 by Lutesque

[(PSN)iuvenilis]

20 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

determines a weapon's ability to penetrate through Solid Surfaces

determines how far from the initial collision that projectile will Pass through

What's the difference?

Can you give an example perhaps?

No idea why you won't read the wiki, it's explained well with examples. If you're not going to make the effort to read it, that's your loss. 

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Punch_Through

[Xzorn]

It's a simple measurement of object depth based on the punch-through distance value.

Enemies have different depth values based on the location of their body you hit well as the enemy type.

Once the value reaches 0 will not pass through.

[Dreddeth]

As far as I understand, punch through is basically a pool of distance which a shot can draw from to travel through a solid object or enemy. Each pass through draws from that pool based on the struck object's thickness until no distance remains.

Edit: I thought the video proved the wiki wrong, but the wiki doesn't actually say what the video says it does. This video is outdated, and the information in it is no longer factual.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Dreddeth

[Lockhart77]

1 punch through = 1m punch through.
Generally enemy have 0.6m thickness to their model, but the quadruped enemy are different but doesn't matter much.

[Autongnosis]

Punch through depletes. Let's say you have three metres of it. You punch through a lancer (standardised 0.6m). You have 2.4m left. Then you punch through a 1m box. You have now 1.4m left. You can pass through two more lancer, the 3rd will take dmg but stop the bullet. 

Edited July 22, 2019 by Autongnosis

[WhiteMarker]

32 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

One dude says that Punch Through value determines a weapon's ability to penetrate through Solid Surfaces depending on how thick it is..... another dude says Punch through only takes affect once a weapon's Projectile collides with something.... from there  punch through value determines how far from the initial collision that projectile will Pass through well.... anything with in that distance....

You just described the same thing in two different ways.

Punch through doesn't take effect if the shot travels through air. It only takes action if the shot collides with something. (Enemy or Wall)
The thickness of the thing that was hit gets subtracted from the punch through value. If your punch through value is greater than the thickness of the item, then the bullet will pass through...
So yes, it is predetermined if a bullet will go through a wall. But at the same time punch through will only take effect if it hits something.

If you are only shooting enemies with nothing else behind them, then punch through doesn't matter for you. But if you shoot at enemies when there are other enemies behind them, then punch through is of interest for you.
If you have enough punch through to penetrate an enemy, then this is basically doubling your damage, if your are always hitting two enemies.

[Lutesque]

2 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

You just described the same thing in two different ways.

I guarantee you I most definitely did not.... but thats just my words failing me.... 

Trust me if I could explain it properly you would see how different how I thought the mechanic worked.

4 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

Punch through doesn't take effect if the shot travels through air. 

I was told it did.... or rather I was led to believe it did by accident. 

 

[Autongnosis]

à l’instant, Lutesque a dit :

I was told it did.... or rather I was led to believe it did by accident. 

No, that's blatantly false. Thin air doesn't consume punchthrough. 

[WhiteMarker]

Just now, Lutesque said:

I guarantee you I most definitely did not.... but thats just my words failing me.... 

Trust me if I could explain it properly you would see how different how I thought the mechanic worked.

Maybe you meant something different, but what you wrote is the same thing.

Just now, Lutesque said:

I was told it did.... or rather I was led to believe it did by accident.

If you needed punch through for air, then normal guns without it wouldn't work at all.

[Lutesque]

1 minute ago, Autongnosis said:

No, that's blatantly false. Thin air doesn't consume punchthrough. 

Again.... the way it was explained in a different video made it seem like it did...

Which in turn made it seem more complicated and useless than it actually is but made sense why Maggy's Magnetize seems so Broken with The Lanka....

6 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

Maybe you meant something different, but what you wrote is the same thing.

If you needed punch through for air, then normal guns without it wouldn't work at all.

Nope.... definitely not.... as I said in my OP: 

49 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

another dude says Punch through only takes affect once a weapon's Projectile collides with something

This means the weapon would function normally so long as it doesn't hit anything.... its only after it hits something where my dumb false theory of how punch through works on thin air takes effect... and to be honest.... this is exactly how the Opticor Vandal has been behaving for me ever since I got it....

[WhiteMarker]

Just now, Lutesque said:

this is exactly how the Opticor Vandal has been behaving for me ever since I got it....

And what is the Opticor Vandal doing to you?

You can trust us, thin air isn't affected by punch through. Punch Through is for when the shot hits something. Thin air is nothing in this case.

[Autongnosis]

à l’instant, Lutesque a dit :

Which in turn made it seem more complicated and useless than it actually is but made sense why Maggy's Magnetize seems so Broken with The Lanka....

Punchthrough in mag bubble is broken. It suspends the depletion rate and keeps rolling about as if the enemies weren't there. That's the issue. 

[Lutesque]

1 minute ago, WhiteMarker said:

And what is the Opticor Vandal doing to you ?

Well to keep things simple. It's not hitting anything too far behind the Initial Target....

2 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:

Punchthrough in mag bubble is broken. It suspends the depletion rate and keeps rolling about as if the enemies weren't there. That's the issue. 

Uhm.... is DE going to fix it ? 

[Autongnosis]

il y a 2 minutes, Lutesque a dit :

Uhm.... is DE going to fix it ? 

No idea. It's like faction mods and rhino double dipping into dots and triple dipping into gas. It's technically a bug but it's been there for years now. 

[WhiteMarker]

1 minute ago, Lutesque said:

Well to keep things simple. It's not hitting anything too far behind the Initial Target....

And what should we make of that?
It does what it's supposed to do. 1.0 meter punch through. It will penetrate one enemy.
Because it is hitscan, both enemies have to be in a straight line, so that both get hit.

Just now, Autongnosis said:

No idea. It's like faction mods and rhino double dipping into dots and triple dipping into gas. It's technically a bug but it's been there for years now. 

Faction Mods always worked like this, it is intended, even in Damage 1.0. So it's safe to assume that it is intentional
Rhino should be intended for now. Maybe he will get a rework one day, maybe then they will change things up.
Mags Bubble could be a feature. The thing is, it's wonky with clients and hosts, which makes it less reliable.

[Lutesque]

1 minute ago, Autongnosis said:

No idea. It's like faction mods and rhino double dipping into dots and triple dipping into gas. It's technically a bug but it's been there for years now. 

And Chesa, Hydriod and Nekros defiling the same corpse. 

Yeah im sure they're going to get around to "Fixing" eventually....

[Lutesque]

2 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

And what should we make of that?
It does what it's supposed to do. 1.0 meter punch through. It will penetrate one enemy.
Because it is hitscan, both enemies have to be in a straight line, so that both get hit.

Yeah I get that..... heres the thing.... even with shred on thats not whats happening with my Opticor Vandal....

It will only hit targets in a line if they are somewhat close ish together...  If I line up two Targets that are far apart from each other then the Opticor just doesn't hit the other target....

[WhiteMarker]

Just went to the simulacrum real quick. It depends on the enemy. It has trouble penetrating a bombard. Put punch through mod on it, and it worked just fine, with 6 to 7 meters between the enemies. There is no problem with penetrating a butcher, even without punch through mods.

[Autongnosis]

il y a 15 minutes, WhiteMarker a dit :

Faction Mods always worked like this, it is intended, even in Damage 1.0. So it's safe to assume that it is intentional

Rhino should be intended for now. Maybe he will get a rework one day, maybe then they will change things up.
Mags Bubble could be a feature. The thing is, it's wonky with clients and hosts, which makes it less reliable.

Yeah, stealth melee multiplier also "always" worked like that but it got changed. Tbh i wouldn't be so sure, in fact i tend to not use that stuff (and other stuff) a lot or at all because experience told me eventually they're gonna fix it. 

[WhiteMarker]

1 minute ago, Autongnosis said:

Yeah, stealth melee multiplier also "always" worked like that but it got changed. Tbh i wouldn't be so sure, in fact i tend to not use that stuff (and other stuff) a lot or at all because experience told me eventually they're gonna fix it. 

Fair enough.
But the stealth multiplier thing just got exploited by almost everyone. Obviously they fixed that.
Almost no meta build uses faction mods. So they will stay like this for another decade I would say. If people aren't using it, why bothering with "fixing" it? ^^

[DatDarkOne]

35 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Which in turn made it seem more complicated and useless than it actually is but made sense why Maggy's Magnetize seems so Broken with The Lanka....

Magnetize works like that with any and all projectiles that have punchthru.  This includes all bows, Bolton, Bolto, AkBolto and primes, Pox.  It's just the Lanka and the Daikyu both have the largest punchthru stat of all the projectiles at about 3m innately.  

Basically any projectile except melee that Ivara can control with Navigator will work like that with Magnetize.  I haven't been able to test and see if the interaction works with thrown melee as well.  

[DatDarkOne]

42 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:

Punchthrough in mag bubble is broken. It suspends the depletion rate and keeps rolling about as if the enemies weren't there. That's the issue. 

Navigator does this too as a feature.  Suspending the depletion rate.  

Edited July 22, 2019 by DatDarkOne