Amalgan Thread , Dicussion over Scott's Rework/Fan Rework Archive

[Gruiz]

1 hour ago, saradonin said:

-snip-

 

Quote

Right now Vauban can at least stack Perpetual Vortex at D tower and cover the rest with Bastilles to cheese void interception.

If it goes live, he'll be completely useles

 

I dont see this rework will remove that tactic, Care to elaborate?

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by Gruiz

[Tatann]

My only worry would be that they ignore his survivability issue. 

He needs either a defensive ability (not by CC), or a boost to his stats (300 => 375 HP and 100 => 200-250 armor)

 

 

[(NSW)ToadBlue]

1 hour ago, XenMaster said:

Synergy as in stats.

 

Saryn's Toxic Lash can deal bonus dmg to enemy that are affected by Spores.

 

Miasma deal multiplier dmg on enemy that are affected by spores.

 

If the Vortex + Bastille doesnt give bonus dmg debuff for orbital strike or even tesla, its gonna get bad.

Vauban already gets a damage buff for attacking incapacated enemies such as those in his Bastille and Vortex, it's already his passive.

[(NSW)ToadBlue]

15 minutes ago, Tatann said:

My only worry would be that they ignore his survivability issue. 

He needs either a defensive ability (not by CC), or a boost to his stats (300 => 375 HP and 100 => 200-250 armor)

Vauban definitely needs an armor boost. He looks like a brick but he's as durable as straw. And Vauban's armor is actually 50, it's his Prime that has 100 armor, which is pretty pitiful.

[Tatann]

2 hours ago, (NSW)ToadBlue said:

Vauban definitely needs an armor boost. He looks like a brick but he's as durable as straw. And Vauban's armor is actually 50, it's his Prime that has 100 armor, which is pretty pitiful.

Yeah I only listed stats for Vauban Prime obviously, who cares about puny non Primed version ^^

But I agree, I don't see how he looks as "armored" as Volt (Prime) and less armored than Khora/Saryn

[(PSN)Vexx757]

If DE decides to keep some of Vauban`s abilities here is what I would like them to do.

 

Vauban:

·       All abilities will land where you are aiming at instead of an arch throw.

 

1st ability:

·       Make them have 100% stun proc on a normal cast.

·       Reduce the charge time to 1sec instead of 3sec.

·       Reduce the shock time to 1sec.

·       Make one tesla shock two enemies instead of one.

·       Holding the ability will throw a slow-moving tesla that will head in the direction you’re facing. (This is good for enemies at a distance hiding behind cover)

·       The more you spam it the less energy you use which stacks up to 75% less energy OR if you decide to pick up tesla, you will be refunded half energy back.

 

2nd ability:

·       (NEW) Disarm- Replace tripwire with a trap brakes enemies weapons making the use their melee weapon. (tripwire is fun to watch but ultimately useless) This make his other abilities more effective.

·       All traps are seeker traps that seek out the nearest enemy to it. (this makes it better for enemies with guns)

·       Bounce will continue to seek out enemies until the number of bounces run out.

·       Increase shred and concuss range to 10m when triggered and on detonation.

·       Shred will permanently strip enemies armour.

 

4th ability:

·       Increase the range from 6m to 12m.

·       It can now be deactivated.

·       After ability ends it will set off a blast proc explosion knocking enemies down.

 

Synergies:

1st & 4th

·       If you throw your 1st ability in the 4th ability it will shock every enemy sucked in doing more damage.

 

2nd (concuss & shred) & 3rd ability

·       If you throw concuss in the 3rd ability while there are enemies held up, it will make enemies outside it shoot enemies affected by it making you less likely to get shot at if you or your allies are inside 3rd ability and the effect will last until the 3rd ability duration runs out.

·       Throwing shred in there with no enemies in it will shred most of incoming enemy fire making you receive a 70% damage reduction if you or your allies are standing within it and the effect will last until the 3rd ability duration runs out.

 

Environmental trap synergy:

If you throw your 1st ability onto/near a trap it will override it which means you or your allies will no longer be affect by the trap but will instead affect enemies.

 

Throughs on footage

1st ability

I like that the charge time is quicker than before however even though I like that he is juggling multiple balls when holding the ability, at the end of the day what`s important is how it would work and it`s stats. Can you throw more then three balls without the other three disappearing? Does this work with enemies with guns? Does one tesla shock more than one enemy? Etc.

 

3rd/4th ability combined

I really like this change, the 3rd and 4th ability were way too similar and it make sense to put them together. I would like this ability better if you could make a choice to activate either one. also, multiple casts of the ability absorbing each other should increase its range.

 

New 3rd ability

Even if this is early in development, I don`t like this ability. It looks like it`s only good for synergising with his 4th ability and it`s not good on its own. If it was me, I would rather have an ability that buffs weapons since his abilities can`t kill or maybe a sentinel that can move on its own or say by Vauban`s side supporting him. If they decide to keep it, they got to make it better that what I saw.

 

For closing comments, I oppose Vauban having turrets, I`d rather him have a sentinel or drones. If this rework is going to be a success, his abilities has to work with enemies with guns, have synergy and have survivability so get it right DE this is your 3rd attempted don`t screw it up.

 

[keikogi]

5 hours ago, Tatann said:

My only worry would be that they ignore his survivability issue. 

He needs either a defensive ability (not by CC), or a boost to his stats (300 => 375 HP and 100 => 200-250 armor)

 

 

Yeh. Looks like DE ignored his survibability all together. They keep adding CC imune enemies and somehow expect straight CC frame to be able to deal with them.

Edit: Why about 3 or 4 threads got merged on my rework? Got quite confused.

Edit2: I think I shoud rename this thread to Vauban rework discussions.

Edit3: I think "Amalgan Vauban Thread (dead Vauban reworks , and Dicussion of Steve's Sneak Peaks)" , also if your thread got merged here give my a link to the post page so I can high light your rewrok/ discussion in the initial page.

Edited September 23, 2019 by keikogi

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

6 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

IIRC they nerfed the farming thing, someone can correct me if I am wrong, but they nerfed the Augment for him, so you can't stack farm.

Oh, well the stack farm was nerfed fir all looter frames, nekros, hydroid/khora/atlas loot augments. I dont think the mod itself was changed, just the loot stacking 

[Circle_of_Psi]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

Oh, well the stack farm was nerfed fir all looter frames, nekros, hydroid/khora/atlas loot augments. I dont think the mod itself was changed, just the loot stacking 

Uhm, what just happened to the forms? 

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

As much as Perpetual Vortex was useful in covering chokepoints, it used too much energy and relied on high duration and attention to keep stacking its duration. Range was also an issue.

I used to run Perpetual Vortex Vauban quite a bit back then and it was too much attention to detail to work with, whereas Bastille was simple enough cover and control to utilize. 

Although there are gripes with the two abilities merging, having Bastille tap to cast and Vortex proc’ing on hold to cast looks promising. Perpetual Vortex may go the way of the Do-Do when the rework hits, but an overall duration buff to the Vortex portion of the merged abilities may be on the table. What’s important to note from the video footage is that Bastille is shown to hold enemies into place and then vacuumed into the Vortex when it happened, so in the end you can have a more controlled environment in siphoning enemies into Vortex.

The troubling issue that I need to constantly remind everyone about merging Bastille and Vortex together is the energy cost. If Bastille/Vortex is finalized to be his Power 4, we really need to urge DE to rethink that decision as making this merged ability would be too costly to use (as a power 4 the energy cost may be finalized as 75-100 cast cost). 75 cast cost would be marginally reasonable but hasn’t changed whatever dynamic we saw with Vauban as we know him now, 50 cast cost would be the golden number to provide players with some leeway to cast the ability liberally. If 50-75 cast cost we should have DE reconsider that Bastille/Vortex be his Power 3 instead, as well as another look into Vauban’s ability kit where energy cast costs are concerned to move him away from the legacy 25/50/75/100 cast cost dynamic that has plagued most Warframes in the past with their abilities.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

2 hours ago, keikogi said:

Yeh. Looks like DE ignored his survibability all together. They keep adding CC imune enemies and somehow expect straight CC frame to be able to deal with them.

Edit: Why about 3 or 4 threads got merged on my rework? Got quite confused.

Edit2: I think I shoud rename this thread to Vauban rework discussions.

Edit3: I think "Amalgan Vauban Thread (dead Vauban reworks , and Dicussion of Steve's Sneak Peaks)" , also if your thread got merged here give my a link to the post page so I can high light your rewrok/ discussion in the initial page.

Wait other peoples reworks got merged into yours without your permission?? Did our gods notice you?? 🤤💙

[40PE]

16 hours ago, (XB1)COA Altair said:

They have teams working on each of the things you mentioned.  As far as I know only one individual is working on vauban rework and that's Scott.  Maybe 1 or 2 other people alongside him at best.  If everyone in DE was working on vauban rework it would have shipped to us a long time ago.  

He is the main guy working on it yes but surely there are coders graphic and sound designers also collaborating.

Even a "small" Warframe rework need to be tested and then after release bugs and issues and overlooked conflicts need to be addressed.

Yes I agree with you many people and groups working on many things. Exactly this is the reason why the whole updates are chained together even if it's just small groups working on it or not.

Edited September 23, 2019 by 40PE

[keikogi]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)IIFrost_GhostII said:

Wait other peoples reworks got merged into yours without your permission?? Did our gods notice you?? 🤤💙

I found 2 reworks at page 3. So I thing a few vauban reworks got merged in my Thread. But is improbable someone at DE has noticed this thread. Odds are there were to many Vauban rework threads so the moderators decided to fuse the post due to simalar topics. Mine probably got chosen as the main thread either due to more views , comments or likes. About the Vauban rework discussion they probably got trown here because I think I was the first to show steve rework in this forun.

Also as far as know threads are merged by moderators. I don't think OP have any say in the matter.

Edited September 23, 2019 by keikogi

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

3 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Uhm, what just happened to the forms? 

Im not sure what you’re asking about? I never wrote forms

[Circle_of_Psi]

2 hours ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

Im not sure what you’re asking about? I never wrote forms

the topic melded and now the title has a misleading title

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

40 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

the topic melded and now the title has a misleading title

WAIT I JUST NOTICED THAT!?!? xD

[keikogi]

1 hour ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

the topic melded and now the title has a misleading title

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

WAIT I JUST NOTICED THAT!?!? xD

There is like 5 diferent reworks on this thread and discussions on Steve's change. I can't make I tittle explain what happen (to long , wont fit ) so the best solution I could come up with was call it amalgan thread Vauban reworks and discussion on Steve's rewor

[XenMaster]

13 hours ago, (NSW)ToadBlue said:

Vauban already gets a damage buff for attacking incapacated enemies such as those in his Bastille and Vortex, it's already his passive.

If they dont increase that damage buff and/or add more multiplier, it be bad. Still we dont know the stats of Orbital Strike and the new mobile tesla.

[Tatann]

9 hours ago, keikogi said:

Yeh. Looks like DE ignored his survibability all together. They keep adding CC imune enemies and somehow expect straight CC frame to be able to deal with them.

Edit: Why about 3 or 4 threads got merged on my rework? Got quite confused.

Edit2: I think I shoud rename this thread to Vauban rework discussions.

Edit3: I think "Amalgan Vauban Thread (dead Vauban reworks , and Dicussion of Steve's Sneak Peaks)" , also if your thread got merged here give my a link to the post page so I can high light your rewrok/ discussion in the initial page.

At some point in the short videos, you see Vauban having 840 HP (at full life), it looks like a weird value. I mean a maxed Vitality would give 740, so 830 with Physique aura, or 850 with Umbral Vitality and another Umbral mod.

But 840, I don't know, maybe with an unmaxed vitality (to get to 660 HP) and one of the set mod that gives +180%. At first I hoped for a HP buff...

Also the video made me remember poor non Primed Vauban only has 225 shield. An engineer, without a good shield, in a sci-fi RPG...

[keikogi]

1 hour ago, Tatann said:

At some point in the short videos, you see Vauban having 840 HP (at full life), it looks like a weird value. I mean a maxed Vitality would give 740, so 830 with Physique aura, or 850 with Umbral Vitality and another Umbral mod.

But 840, I don't know, maybe with an unmaxed vitality (to get to 660 HP) and one of the set mod that gives +180%. At first I hoped for a HP buff...

Also the video made me remember poor non Primed Vauban only has 225 shield. An engineer, without a good shield, in a sci-fi RPG...

That sounds like the type of buff that only happens to calm people down instead of actually fixing the problem. The kind of stat buff DE is usually comfortable making ( 25 or 50 base HP and armor ) is not enought to fix survabily problems. But if people point out that they did not adress this problem , they can say Vauban survivability was buffed.

[General_Durandal]

21 hours ago, Miyabi-sama said:

@General_Durandal

I am strongly, wholeheartedly suggest you pay a visit Limbo page on the wiki.warframe.com and thorougly read all information about Banish and Rift Surge. If mechanics explaination there is confusing (which I find so really), then just skip straight to the tips & tricks sections of each power.

You might be surprised how Banish and Surge are viable now in his existing kit. Opening a number of opportunities.

Looks like at some point they gave Banish the 100% chance knockdown again, which is nice.
The Ghost Assassin build however is now energy hungry, sine Surge is a 75 energy power,
and can be both slower, and faster in different ways and at different times.
Stasis prevents the enemy from getting knocked down, so Stasis actually hinders Melee Ghost Assassin.
Head-shots can do a ton of damage too though, so Gun Ghost Assassin is safer.
Either way there is still some power juggling.

[Circle_of_Psi]

10 hours ago, keikogi said:

 

There is like 5 diferent reworks on this thread and discussions on Steve's change. I can't make I tittle explain what happen (to long , wont fit ) so the best solution I could come up with was call it amalgan thread Vauban reworks and discussion on Steve's rewor

Guess they didn't like the feedback there where getting, so they shoved it all in one topic and threw it away. Ah well.

Lets see what Vauban is going to be like now, we already kown its not going to live up to expectations 

[Phaeronimus]

I really hope they're saving Minelayer for last.That would explain why the same Mine icons are there(lookin' at you Bounce/Tripwire -__-" ).

Another thing is his survivability,if they don't address it via ability,which in this case,all hopes goes to his 2nd ability be it trough a certain Mine or a new 2nd ability in general...they should at least give him a hefty armor/shield buff.
If they don't address this issue it really shows how out of touch with the game they truly are..in this case,Vauban.

 

[(NSW)ToadBlue]

On 2019-09-23 at 5:28 PM, Tatann said:

Also the video made me remember poor non Primed Vauban only has 225 shield. An engineer, without a good shield, in a sci-fi RPG...

Now that you mention it, that is really sad. I can accept Vauban having poor armor but he should have a big BIG shield in exchange, on par with Harrow's shield, maybe even bigger since he wouldn't have the overshields passive. Then give him shield regen mods and Sentinel shield-booster mods so that he can recover big chunks of shield while he's CCing the whole room. It should be easy to regenerate shields if everyone is too tied up to shoot you.

Better yet, new passive: Vauban has Proto Shield instead of normal Shield. (And remove its weakness to Toxin damage because the fact Toxin bypasses shields is strong enough.)

Edited September 25, 2019 by (NSW)ToadBlue

[keikogi]

13 minutes ago, (NSW)ToadBlue said:

Now that you mention it, that is really sad. I can accept Vauban having poor armor but he should have a big BIG shield in exchange, on par with Harrow's shield, maybe even bigger since he wouldn't have the overshields passive. Then give him shield regen mods and Sentinel shield-booster mods so that he can recover big chunks of shield while he's CCing the whole room. It should be easy to regenerate shields if everyone is too tied up to shoot you.

I would settle with half of Hildrin shields.

14 minutes ago, (NSW)ToadBlue said:

Better yet, new passive: Vauban has Proto Shield instead of normal Shield. (And remove its weakness to Toxin damage because the fact Toxin bypasses shields is strong enough.)

I would prefer if vauban could turn his shields into protoshields by interacting with one of his traps or he had a shield booster on his 2.