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Amalgan Thread , Dicussion over Scott's Rework/Fan Rework Archive

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I'd rather keep bastille and vortex separate in all honesty... especially seeing as that's now going to affect the two augments which actually worked pretty well on vauban...

I've always seen batille and vortex as complimentary cc abilities rather than one you'd merge into one...

Mind you I'm not expecting much from this rework, I'm sorry to say but imo Scott hasn't had a great record when it comes to reworks. 

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Looks kinda meh to me, especially with the 3 and 4 merged into one skill. Why can't we electrify the net with our teslas or shoot it to add elemental damage like the zephyr tornado, etc.

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32 minutes ago, Sintag said:

Ah, so now I can charge and toss multiple Teslas?  ...Great, but do they now ensure a stun on at least the first shock?

There's a lot of details.  ...also, oof that spread hurt to watch

The Teslas now act like Seeker Mines and roll around with Vauban. Not sure if they Shock enemies or Latch onto them and stun them.

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Oh goodness i really hope this is not how the rework goes. Reworks are supposed to be an upgrade in playability! The Bastille + vortex is a joke. Those mines are almost as pointless as a beach ball on the moon.

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4 minutes ago, mrbubblepants said:

Oh goodness i really hope this is not how the rework goes. Reworks are supposed to be an upgrade in playability! The Bastille + vortex is a joke. Those mines are almost as pointless as a beach ball on the moon.

Why?

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8 minutes ago, mrbubblepants said:

Oh goodness i really hope this is not how the rework goes. Reworks are supposed to be an upgrade in playability! The Bastille + vortex is a joke. Those mines are almost as pointless as a beach ball on the moon.

You know that's literally one of the more populars rework suggestion for him right? This is DE literally listening to the players again.

Edited by Atsia

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Oof. If this really is the route they take it, I'm not particularly impressed. Aesthetically speaking.

I suppose if it's functional in application, that's better than ignoring the frame...

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I see everyone complaining about bastille and vortex beingn combined and I dont see why. Having both caused one to be redundant and useless. Now however, with them combined Vauban not only gets space for an entirely new ability, but he keeps the better ability (Bastille) with the added benefit of pulling enemies to an easy spot to kill them. 

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As someone who likens himself as a Vauban main... I'm fine with these changes, in all honesty. Hell, freeing up an ability slot for something new and combining Bastille and Vortex sounds promising.

I think some people rile themselves up for negativity and worst-case scenarios, and never try to see changes from more angles.

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

I see everyone complaining about bastille and vortex beingn combined and I dont see why. Having both caused one to be redundant and useless. Now however, with them combined Vauban not only gets space for an entirely new ability, but he keeps the better ability (Bastille) with the added benefit of pulling enemies to an easy spot to kill them. 

What if it's a toggle. What I mean is like press for Bastille, then if you want vortext hold while Bastille is up for vortex. That could be cool. 

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

I see everyone complaining about bastille and vortex beingn combined and I dont see why. Having both caused one to be redundant and useless. Now however, with them combined Vauban not only gets space for an entirely new ability, but he keeps the better ability (Bastille) with the added benefit of pulling enemies to an easy spot to kill them. 

My issue is that I would prefer each ability be tweaked so that they have different uses.

Bastille could've been improved by, say, simply letting it preventing ranged damage from outside hitting those inside.

Vortex could've been improved by, say, re-tuning it to be about draining health from enemies to heal allies, rather than being about doing major damage.

Not the best ideas, I will admit, but I'm just trying to get my point across. They could be tweaked to have different purposes while still essentially being the same abilities.

Tesla isn't going in the worst direction possible. Unexpected, but not disappointing. Tesla just needs to be an actually decent nuke, tbh.

Despite all of that, I'm more concerned with his plans for Minelayer. We've heard nothing. I was hoping he would merge Minelayer's useful effects into Tesla bombs, and thus turn Vauban into more of a grenadier than a trap layer.

1 minute ago, (XB1)SixGunLove said:

What if it's a toggle. What I mean is like press for Bastille, then if you want vortext hold while Bastille is up for vortex. That could be cool. 

I could get behind that, I guess, but the abilities do basically the same thing in a slightly different way. It sounds like the plan is to make Bastille suck enemies into it.

Edited by DrakeWurrum

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hmmm i'm not sure about the vortex change
i just hope it doesn't remove ability for vauban to spam multiple Bastille 

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1 minute ago, .OwOkin. said:

hmmm i'm not sure about the vortex change
i just hope it doesn't remove ability for vauban to spam multiple Bastille 

We can already spam multiple Vortex, too, for the record.

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5 minutes ago, (XB1)SixGunLove said:

What if it's a toggle. What I mean is like press for Bastille, then if you want vortext hold while Bastille is up for vortex. That could be cool. 

I dont see an issue with that. Then again however you have the issue of redundancy. Why would I use vortex when bastille was better in all but like 2 situations? 

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

Why would I use vortex when bastille was better in all but like 2 situations? 

I mean true. Idk. 

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5 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

My issue is that I would prefer each ability be tweaked so that they have different uses.

Bastille could've been improved by, say, simply letting it preventing ranged damage from outside hitting those inside.

Each frame with a large AoE defense ability has difference strengths and weaknesses. Limbo can stop ALL damage inside his bubble, at the cost of all damage (besides warframe powers) leaving the bubble. Frost can stop bullets, but not people. Gara can stop bullets AND people, but her wall is weaker and can be jumped over at times. Vauban can stop all people (if they remove the cap which they 100% should) and not bullets. Now, id be down for a buff effect for those within the bastille, maybe damage taken is reduced or something, but he shouldnt block people and bullets with an ability that lasts purely by duration. Thats another thing, remember how busted gara was on release because her 4 worked solely on duration?

5 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Vortex could've been improved by, say, re-tuning it to be about draining health from enemies to heal allies, rather than being about doing major damage.

It never did major damage before. Its whole purpose was to cc enemies into a ball so you could shoot/melee finish them. 

5 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Not the best ideas, I will admit, but I'm just trying to get my point across. They could be tweaked to have different purposes while still essentially being the same abilities.

I get what you’re saying, and honestly there arent that many issues with the ideas, except the abilities themselves need more helps then simple tweaks. Im in the “vauban needs a complete overhaul” camp, and seeing what i see so far, a decent mix of overhaul and rehash has me hopeful. 

5 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Tesla isn't going in the worst direction possible. Unexpected, but not disappointing. Tesla just needs to be an actually decent nuke, tbh.

I wouldnt mind if tesla worked like Titania. Razor wings. They dont need nuke damage, but make them draw aggro (due to their small size they will be decently survivable) and stun enemies they get near, spy style. Throw a ball at that one enemies and watch as he tried to shoot it before getting tased. Or charge up the ability and throw 10 and cause mayhem

5 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Despite all of that, I'm more concerned with his plans for Minelayer. We've heard nothing. I was hoping he would merge Minelayer's useful effects into Tesla bombs, and thus turn Vauban into more of a grenadier than a trap layer.

I dont mind the trap concept, except due to modding and the restrictions on his abilities they all sucked. If we could also get abilities besides *throw a grenade that does one thing* and *throw a similar but slightly different grenade* id be very happy. 

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This looks good to me. Vauban having two big crowd-control abilities was very redundant so merging them into one sounds like a good idea. A Tesla upgrade would be great because while I liked Tesla in idea, it still felt weak and unsatisfying to use, and I don't know why it needed a charge to be effective, I kind of hate abilities that require you to charge them. I really didn't like Minelayer because the mines were a mix of "kinda useful" to "worthless" and setting them up felt like a chore, so I would accept pretty much any alternative to that. I will look forward to seeing more of this, and if it shapes up nicely, I may decide to build Vauban a second time.

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21 minutes ago, (XB1)SixGunLove said:

What if it's a toggle. What I mean is like press for Bastille, then if you want vortext hold while Bastille is up for vortex. That could be cool. 

Sounds like a good Augment slot.

But yeah, combining the two is a good idea because both were taking up a similar spot in Vauban's kit, the place being AOE cc.

As for the one not being Tesla...all I can say to that is...

street fighter yes GIF

Seriously Tesla was one of the worst abilities in Warframe, it was never worth the cost when considering it was competing with both Bastille and Vortex (The actual worst ability was Minelayer) and did nothing of any note, it was slow, clunky, weak and just plain outdated.

 

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24 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

I see everyone complaining about bastille and vortex beingn combined and I dont see why. Having both caused one to be redundant and useless. Now however, with them combined Vauban not only gets space for an entirely new ability, but he keeps the better ability (Bastille) with the added benefit of pulling enemies to an easy spot to kill them. 

1) They had different roles, especially if you used an augment, so no idea why you see it being redundant having both.

2) This change is going to require a change to their augments which hardly ever goes well.  No idea how the change is going to work with repelling bastille for example unless this is a toggle/dual mode ability (didn't look like it). 

3) Honestly combining them seems like a cop out to actually doing something 'good' with them.  People have been suggesting synergy of bastille with tesla shock for example and we know they can do this type of synergy because of things like khora and gara. 

4) There's nothing to say that a 'replacement' ability is going to be worth having over the existing set of abilities, especially if they had some improvements. 

 

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5 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

1) They had different roles, especially if you used an augment, so no idea why you see it being redundant having both.

They really didnt. Both were used for their crowd control, and there was rarely a reason to use vortex over Bastille. Bastille just did more. Also, the vortex augment was ass, dont fool yourself. 

5 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

2) This change is going to require a change to their augments which hardly ever goes well.  No idea how the change is going to work with repelling bastille for example unless this is a toggle/dual mode ability (didn't look like it). 

Seeing as how vortex augment was already bad, it cant really get worse. I do wish repelling bastille was reworked and normal bastille just got its enemy cap removed tho. 

5 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

3) Honestly combining them seems like a cop out to actually doing something 'good' with them.  People have been suggesting synergy of bastille with tesla shock for example and we know they can do this type of synergy because of things like khora and gara. 

Combining them was something people have also been suggesting. I was one of those people in fact. 

5 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

4) There's nothing to say that a 'replacement' ability is going to be worth having over the existing set of abilities, especially if they had some improvements. 

Thats true, but it gives a possibility. Keeping vortex and bastille gave no possibility of reducing redundancy 

 

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8 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

1) They had different roles, especially if you used an augment, so no idea why you see it being redundant having both.

They were both "push button to make every guy around you very easy to shoot" abilities. Having one is good. Having two is redundant.

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As trend from Gauss's 3, many new abilities will have similar switch mechanic. Tap to throw Bastille and hold to collapse it into Vortex, or you can hold it for a Vortex straight away!

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