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(XB1)Erudite Prime

Buff Profit Taker's Rewards

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Let's compare Profit Taker to the Exploiter. 

PT requires you to first be "Old Mate" which takes weeks to accomplish, then you need to do the whole Heist thing which requires you to farm for and craft the Archgun Deployer, and then you have to fight the darn thing which isn't an easy task. You need to have finished the War Within, and you need some pretty good gear overall. 

Now, for Exploiter, all you need is to finish Box Solaris, do the Thermia event and then have a fairly tanky frame. 

What I don't get is why Exploiter's drops are twice as good as PT's. The Toroid is worth twice as many Vox Standing, which makes no sense. PT drops literally nothing but credits and useless Debt Bonds, while Exploiter drops tons of resources, Hildryn parts, and Ephemera. Profit Taker requires twice the effort, but yields less than half the rewards. Here are my possible solutions:

Make PT's Toroid worth 20k Standing; almost double Exploiter's 12k. Make Debt Bonds actually worth something instead of literal garbage. Let Ticker sell things for Debt Bonds that are more than just five miscellaneous decorations. Let Ticker sell things like Relic packs or virtually anything that somebody would actually want. Maybe cool Fortuna-themed weapon skins. Debt Bonds only exist as a requirement to level up in Solaris United, so it makes no sense to still get them after you're max rank. At least just expand Ticker's inventory, even if it is just a bunch of cosmetics. 

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2 hours ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

Let's compare Profit Taker to the Exploiter. 

PT requires you to first be "Old Mate" which takes weeks to accomplish, then you need to do the whole Heist thing which requires you to farm for and craft the Archgun Deployer, and then you have to fight the darn thing which isn't an easy task. You need to have finished the War Within, and you need some pretty good gear overall. 

Now, for Exploiter, all you need is to finish Box Solaris, do the Thermia event and then have a fairly tanky frame. 

What I don't get is why Exploiter's drops are twice as good as PT's. The Toroid is worth twice as many Vox Standing, which makes no sense. PT drops literally nothing but credits and useless Debt Bonds, while Exploiter drops tons of resources, Hildryn parts, and Ephemera. Profit Taker requires twice the effort, but yields less than half the rewards. Here are my possible solutions:

Make PT's Toroid worth 20k Standing; almost double Exploiter's 12k. Make Debt Bonds actually worth something instead of literal garbage. Let Ticker sell things for Debt Bonds that are more than just five miscellaneous decorations. Let Ticker sell things like Relic packs or virtually anything that somebody would actually want. Maybe cool Fortuna-themed weapon skins. Debt Bonds only exist as a requirement to level up in Solaris United, so it makes no sense to still get them after you're max rank. At least just expand Ticker's inventory, even if it is just a bunch of cosmetics. 

Because d.e. did not really plan out the bosses properly and we likely won`t see the 3rd orb mother till much later in the game`s lifecycle. Exploiter orb requires material from a regular event content to even start it and apparently from what i understood on the pc part of the thing, you had to get a dozen or so scans of mc`guffins to unlock the boss fight itself but d.e. clearly did not plan it out properly by making it a community thing and then for console it just outright got unlocked after a wait to fix a bug that was rather exploited on pc`s side when it came out.

Honestly, i would rather they disable alarms on profit taker since most public runs you jump into will likely have people twiddling thar thumbs as the alert level got so high, enemies are lvl 65+, they could also drastically limit all the nullifiers & CC spamming moas for the fight, since they clearly did not do enough of that. Plus the spam of massive wall shields can cc screw people since it can even middle finger operator void dashes and what not.

It basically turns into, you better bring super tank-a-holic frames or get stuck in perpetual screwery land. Exploiter orb atleast has a gimmick and does not have to have a flood of every corpus enemy type to make it a fight, one has to follow a plan and execute to take the exploiter orb down, plain and simple. Profit taker has to have you just make a rainbow spamming boom stick of elementals to paint thru its rotating shield of bullcrap. Which should of honestly just developed resistance to X element your hitting it with and then you had to keep changing damage types so your damage was not completely blunted, just like how you NORMALLY take down sentinets.

Oh and that is not even counting all the times you will get spammed with magnetic procs and what which basically just declares: Use Inaros or Hildryn, since even Chroma is going to get half ruined by constantly losing his energy by spam-magnetic-procs a lot. Honestly, Magnetic proc needs to get changed so it stops draining energy and only focus on being a middle finger to shields(JUST LIKE HOW VIRAL IS FOR HEALTH), since its op against warframes but does next to nothing against enemies due to that extra gimmick.

 

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Profit-Taker and its preceding bounties need to be reexamined, tbh. Putting aside how PT itself is a horrendous fight due to the sheer amounts of damage coming from everywhere, the rewards across the board are just badly done, even though the Fortuna update itself had significantly improved upon bounties with bonus objectives. The drop chances for rare rewards are painfully low and require dozens of runs of missions most people will have stopped caring about after the very first run, and PT's own meaningful drops are themselves fairly diluted. To wit, I've probably run PT over a hundred times at this point and still not gotten the Bloodshed Sigil.

I think what would likely better serve everyone is if each Orb Mother toroid gave 6k standing, but each Orb Mother also dropped two of them at a time. There's no real reason for PT to give only half of Exploiter's Standing gains when the former fight is twice as hard as the latter, and if we were to keep that exponential progression, the last Orb Mother's going to have to try very hard to justify its 24k Standing a pop.

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I just wish they'd split the ephemera rewards so profit taker has one, and Exploiter has one.. it's insulting that exploiter has 2 and only drops the same one for certain players..

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I'm sure DE will come up with some Loot driven reason for players to fight those bosses again when the 3rd ones come outs.

They did the same thing with Eidolons. I musta killed that thing 200+ times then they added two more and gave them Arcanes.

200 is enough thanks....  Nothing is worth the same fight that many times.

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Agreed.  Also, Profit Taker is an actual fight, against a boss that is trying to kill you.

Exploiter is a 13 minute sabotage mission with an arcade.

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7 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Putting aside how PT itself is a horrendous fight due to the sheer amounts of damage coming from everywhere,

This right here is the reason Exploiter is so easy comparatively, and why I love the Profit Taker.

Against the Profit Taker, I have used Chroma, Mirage, Nyx, Oberon, Trinity and Inaros.

Against the Exploiter Orb, I have used a Catchmoon.

I certainly hope DE never goes back and defangs the Profit Taker.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Against the Profit Taker, I have used Chroma, Mirage, Nyx, Oberon, Trinity and Inaros.

Against the Exploiter Orb, I have used a Catchmoon.

Because fighting Profit-Taker at least has the player somewhat play in typical Warframe gameplay, whereas Exploiter is just a series of minigames that all ignore the game's existing systems. This does not contradict the fact that PT is itself a poorly designed fight whose difficulty is artificially driven up by a large horde of overstatted enemies. I would rather "defang" PT and redesign its encounter so that it can offer genuine challenge, ideally a challenge that doesn't just overwhelmingly favor Chroma (though I guess you could still play... Nyx? Really now?), than keep it as this tedious, yet ultimately trivial fight. The same goes for Exploiter, whose encounter I think also needs a redo so that it actually makes players play the game, rather than play that one Throw the Canister minigame a bajillion times throughout.

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Fully agree on Exploiter arcade.

4 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

though I guess you could still play... Nyx? Really now?

My Nyx time is about 12, my Chroma time is about 7 or 8, both solo.  Nyx controls the adds, redirects Profit Taker aggro, etc.

Unless you really hurting for those 4 to 5 minutes, there's several options.  Chroma isn't mandatory, he's just easier.  And in Warframe, there will always be an easiest option.

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19 hours ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

Now, for Exploiter, all you need is to finish Box Solaris, do the Thermia event and then have a fairly tanky frame. 

You don't need that

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Unless you really hurting for those 4 to 5 minutes, there's several options.  Chroma isn't mandatory, he's just easier.  And in Warframe, there will always be an easiest option.

This is true, though Warframe is also a game that pushes for time efficiency: spending a few extra minutes fighting PT as Nyx or Inaros may be fine for a few encounters, but when you're aggressively farming for that 1% Bloodshed Sigil drop, that extra time spent makes itself felt a lot more, and the end result is that people end up gravitating towards the faster or easier options, like Chroma and Oberon. Part of the problem with Profit-Taker isn't simply that it overwhelmingly favors only a couple of frames, but makes it practically impossible for many frames to compete due to the sheer amount of damage coming from all sides. While there is likely to always be some optimal choice, or several comparable ones, ideally PT shouldn't completely exclude a whole subset of frames by default, nor should any other mission, and when there's such a saturation of damage that tankiness becomes mandatory (in a game that's meant to emphasize movement as the primary means of mitigating damage, no less), that's generally a sign that the way the game is damaging the player character's health is itself unhealthy.

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7 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

when you're aggressively farming for that 1% Bloodshed Sigil drop, that extra time spent makes itself felt a lot more, and the end result is that people end up gravitating towards the faster or easier options, like Chroma

I agree, but I feel like this is less of an issue with the boss.

Personally, Profit Taker is one of the few things in the game I do because I just feel like it, no other particular reason.  I couldn't give a damn about the sigil.  That's the ideal for any piece of content:  you do it because it's fun, and the rarity of that sort of thing for me is why every suggestion to make it easier or otherwise change it terrifies me.

The real issue is 1% drop chances.  Those do not belong anywhere in the game whatsoever.  That sigil should be earned by merit (i.e. do 100 Profit Taker kills and Ordis gives it to you), not on a stupid off chance.

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12 minutes ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Personally, Profit Taker is one of the few things in the game I do because I just feel like it, no other particular reason.  I couldn't give a damn about the sigil.  That's the ideal for any piece of content:  you do it because it's fun, and the rarity of that sort of thing for me is why every suggestion to make it easier or otherwise change it terrifies me.

The real issue is 1% drop chances.  Those do not belong anywhere in the game whatsoever.  That sigil should be earned by merit (i.e. do 100 Profit Taker kills and Ordis gives it to you), not on a stupid off chance.

I fully agree that super-low drop chances should not exist in Warframe, but I do think there is also a separate issue at hand here with Profit-Taker: while you may have a different experience, many players do take issue with the encounter, to the point where DE acknowledged this and announced thereafter that they would reevaluate how they'd implement difficulty in Warframe. Irrespective of one's subjective enjoyment of the mission, there are design flaws with it that can be and have been pointed out at length, which for many are the main reason why they avoid the fight when they can, and otherwise just try to get it over with as quickly as possible.

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7 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

there are design flaws with it that can be and have been pointed out at length,

The ones I've seen mentioned are crowd control and damage.

Crowd control, I saw why.  They nerfed crowd control from the adds, and Profit Taker's knockdowns are all telegraphed.  That was mostly solved.

The other one is that a giant boss is dealing damage that you have to tank or avoid.  My answer to that is "duh."  And a lot of the adds damage comes from higher alert levels, to which I say "take a couple seconds to destroy the beacon occasionally."  They do not need to put kid gloves on her.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

The other one is that a giant boss is dealing damage that you have to tank or avoid.  My answer to that is "duh."  And a lot of the adds damage comes from higher alert levels, to which I say "take a couple seconds to destroy the beacon occasionally."  They do not need to put kid gloves on her.

I don't know where you read that feedback, because that's not it at all. The problematic damage doesn't just come from Profit-Taker, who deals damage that is poorly-telegraphed or outright unavoidable (including with stealth, as her cannon for some reason ignores invisibility), but from the horde of elite enemies that constantly spawn in even at Alert Level 0. The reason why people pick tanky frames in those situations is because it is simply not possible to pick a squishy frame there and reasonably survive -- a single shot from any random mook can deal hundreds of damage, enough to kill a fragile frame in less than a second, and because these shots are coming from dozens of enemies at a time, plus one big boss, it becomes impossible to reliably dodge all of them. Casting CC doesn't help all that much because the fighting area is so big as to make it impossible to catch everyone at once, and radial damage doesn't help against PT itself. If it were made feasible for the player to be able to move out of harm's way, there would likely be much more of a place for squishy frames (though PT's ability immunity would still not help in many cases), but as it stands there is such an excessive amount of damage that is impossible or unreasonably difficult to dodge that they're just not viable in that kind of content.

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7 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

who deals damage that is poorly-telegraphed or outright unavoidable

Except it isn't if you know proper use of movement and ocassional brief operator switches.

7 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

it is simply not possible to pick a squishy frame there and reasonably survive

I didn't receive this memo.

7 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

but as it stands there is such an excessive amount of damage that is impossible or unreasonably difficult to dodge that they're just not viable in that kind of content

According to the actual definition of viable, many squishy frames are viable.

This sort of thing is part of why we have no endgame.  Endgame involves practiced use of the tools we own, and certain people have issues with even the Profit Taker.  Thus...

27 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

to the point where DE acknowledged this and announced thereafter that they would reevaluate how they'd implement difficulty in Warframe

This is why the Exploiter Orb is an arcade sabotage mission.  The worst part is that DE got high praise for its release.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Except it isn't if you know proper use of movement and ocassional brief operator switches.

I think you missed the part where I mentioned the damage was unavoidable. Profit-Taker's cannon, for example, has dead-on aim regardless of movement, and its projectiles are too quick to move away from (and, as mentioned already, the turret targets invisible frames as well). Unless you plan on moving way out of the fighting area and/or staying constantly in Operator Mode, you're not going to be able to reliably mitigate that kind of damage.

1 minute ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

I didn't receive this memo.

Yet most players apparently did. I for one have never seen any squishy frame enter a Profit-Taker fight and survive for very long, which makes your claims to maining Nyx in the encounter raise an eyebrow.

1 minute ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

According to the actual definition of viable, many squishy frames are viable.

... by what definition, then? Viable where?

1 minute ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

This sort of thing is part of why we have no endgame.  Endgame involves practiced use of the tools we own, and certain people have issues with even the Profit Taker.  Thus...

Because Profit-Taker does not actually involve "practiced use of the tools we own". The core of the fight is itself a minigame that has no relevance to the way we typically play, the combat ignores our parkour completely, there is no emphasis on skilled gunplay, let alone melee combat, and there is no consistent way the encounter tests us on our mastery of our frame abilities, besides the ability for frames like Chroma to remember when to refresh their steroids. Tell me, what mastery of the game does Profit-Taker rely upon? Because it feels like you're confusing the frustration tied to the encounter's excessive amounts of damage with some sort of genuine challenge, an altogether far too common problem in a playerbase that is exposed so little to any degree of skill-testing with a game like Warframe as to not know what the concept entails.

1 minute ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

This is why the Exploiter Orb is an arcade sabotage mission.  The worst part is that DE got high praise for its release.

Because the fight at least wasn't a mishmash of frustrating design and poor balancing. Exploiter isn't a well-designed fight, but at least it doesn't punish the player for not picking a frame with tens of thousands of EHP, or constantly knock them down, drain their Energy for no good reason, or swarm them with too many enemies to reliably manage.

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I suggest you watch this guy do it with Ember.

Don't have my own Nyx footage uploaded, so this'll have to do.

If you're further along in the game, Profit Taker can absolutely be done with a squishier frame.  The issue is in player capability, which a boss that requires max rank SU should be fine with.

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1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

I'm sure DE will come up with some Loot driven reason for players to fight those bosses again when the 3rd ones come outs.

They did the same thing with Eidolons. I musta killed that thing 200+ times then they added two more and gave them Arcanes.

200 is enough thanks....  Nothing is worth the same fight that many times.

I am very sure i have not even surpassed 50 on hydrolyst captures and i have little reason to chase them anyone:

  • Chase Arcanes for plat? Seriously even grace/energize ones on PS4 are pretty much 50~70 plat now when they used to be over double that. Combined with the low chance rng-sus and either getting a group together to hopefully know what they can do, OR perfectly fine tune one`s own setup to pull off that 10~15 minute Volt solo cheese or drag a trinity along to keep lures alive and maybe have the trinity slip in either unairu wisp or Odonata energy shell augment? Kind of half frustrating still to do that repeatedly after doing that for so long already.
  • What about maxing out the rest of your focus abilities? Very sure you can refer to any previous focus tree post on this section & if it does not have me ranting how focus is unbalanced on desired skills and its either Zenurik tree or you are some frame with enough energy sustain or hildryn, you have no reason passed the waybound skills being unlocked & enough capacity to use them all alongside Zenurik.
  • What about standing? If you already got over 100~200+ Teralyst captures in, especially before shrines update and 50 or more hydrolyst captures, you will likely be sitting on piles in the hundreds for quills standing shards.

Honestly without a useful and preferably fun reward to get thru them, most bosses just either get forgotten about or a nuisance of a farm. Though its hard to declare what fits useful and fun in that category for what might as well be classified as the super bosses in warframe, even if they don`t end up being as exciting as how Jordas Golem & Vay hek were in their own raids, but that can easily be debated based on everything involved and how much room one can be allowed to actually have fun with the bosses, to where it can turn into a gag of taking down the boss with basically every warframe in the game sort of challenge.

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34 minutes ago, Avienas said:

-snip-

 

Yea, Super Bosses or however they're defined don't have lasting play value by nature.

I've played some games back in the day like Mega Man X where I beat every boss using the Mega Buster and beat Ridley in the opening of Super Metroid when you're not supposed to (he just flies away anyways). Point being no matter how hard you make a boss; It will become trivial with repetitive fighting.

Mini-bosses have more potential. There's a reason people have done Endurance runs for so long. The enemies don't change much neither do the maps but our options and the way we approach the objective is countless. I posted a mission concept a while back for Veteran content with maximum re-play value. It essentially took an endless mode concept. layered bounty type objectives on top of the normal mission objective with environmental hazards, additional enemy actions and a collection of mini-boss enemies that would occur at random. The bosses themselves remain static in how they fight and get defeated but everything around them is dynamic including the player's choices in frame or how they deal with those mini bounties. Do they send in the Invis frame to unlock a vault solo or do they go together? All of which will influence how they approach dealing with the boss when it shows up and there's multiple types that can show up. This type of concept has far outlasting play value over what DE is doing right now.

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The Profit-Taker fight in general is a gigantic mess. The Terra Corpus faction themselves are utterly ridiculous to begin with, given unreasonable level scaling and "all of the things" from all other factions, but the large numbers they show up in during the Profit-Taker fight take that from "annoying" to "why even bother?" I tend to take Inaros to that fight because if the encouter designers don't care to design compelling encounters, then I might as well opt out and ignore their design entirely. And once you ignore the cluster#*!% of incoming damage, what you're left with is a DPS check. Did you bring enough of the right kind of damage and damage buffs? If so, you win. If not? Tough - that 5-minute countdown at the end will cause you to fail.

For all the crap people give to Exploiter, at least it's less of a gear check. Yeah, it's predominantly non-standard minigames, but they at least require some input and awareness from me. It's still a bit of a "toughness" gear check, sure, but at least it's not just a giant sandbag with a gun.

And the rewards for both of them are terrible. Yes, the Exploiter drops a lot of all of the crafting resources, but that's just a tacit admission that the whole Free Roam economy is a giant farce. And while I'm not unhappy with the Exploiter orb drops (the larger Toroids are always useful), I'm still of the opinion that both bosses should just drop all three of the lower-level Toroids, instead. Right now, I'm in a really dumb situation. I can successfully fight and kill both Orbs consistently and get their much more valuable Toroids... But I still can't level up with Vox Solaris because getting the supposedly less valuable Clada Toroids is far more of a boring, random grind.

I'd say scrap the 6000 and 12 000 Toroids, then have both orbs drop, say, 2 of each of the 1500 Toroids. Or some random, non-weighted combination of each. That right there would be a good first step.

*edit*
And while we're at it, can we please give the Profit-Taker an actual Sentient Shield? You know, the kind which develops damage resistance as it takes damage, rather than that nonsense of rotating damage types. You can set it to hold full damage resistance against 3-6 damage types at a time (number of players + 2), after which point new damage resistance has to come at the expense of existing damage resistance. Just treat Void damage as another damage type, maybe weigh it more heavily. There are ways to solve so we don't have to keep fighting over what damage type the sodding thing is vulnerable to!

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5 hours ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

I suggest you watch this guy do it with Ember.

Don't have my own Nyx footage uploaded, so this'll have to do.

If you're further along in the game, Profit Taker can absolutely be done with a squishier frame.  The issue is in player capability, which a boss that requires max rank SU should be fine with.

Congratulations on demonstrating that taking on Profit-Taker with a squishy frame is difficult enough to be considered an achievement recordable in video form. Looking through the video, the Ember clearly built for survivability (notice the Adaptation stacks, Rolling Guard cooldown, the choice of the Vazarin Focus school), yet still nearly died on multiple occasions, and took significantly longer than average to kill the boss (the recorded fight starts with PT at 50% health). The point was never that it was literally, physically impossible to take on Profit-Taker with a squishy frame, but that it was so unreasonably difficult and inefficient as to not be worth considering -- notice how the Ember's abilities were almost entirely useless, with only Flash Accelerant being used for the bonus Heat damage. You could very well have played a frame with no abilities or innate bonus durability at all and achieved comparably poor results, which is precisely why those frames aren't picked (and are therefore not viable). The issue isn't in "player capability", the issue is simply that picking a squishy frame will put you at a significant disadvantage relative to any other choice, to the point where there is no reason to pick said frame other than for bragging rights in knowingly running the mission in the most inefficient way possible. This may be fine solo, but in a group this makes you a liability to your team, especially when the player's "capability" isn't all that (and I can guarantee you that most people with max rank in SU aren't exactly paragons of skill, because Warframe as a game doesn't really push for deep mastery).

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4 hours ago, Xzorn said:

 

Yea, Super Bosses or however they're defined don't have lasting play value by nature.

I've played some games back in the day like Mega Man X where I beat every boss using the Mega Buster and beat Ridley in the opening of Super Metroid when you're not supposed to (he just flies away anyways). Point being no matter how hard you make a boss; It will become trivial with repetitive fighting.

Mini-bosses have more potential. There's a reason people have done Endurance runs for so long. The enemies don't change much neither do the maps but our options and the way we approach the objective is countless. I posted a mission concept a while back for Veteran content with maximum re-play value. It essentially took an endless mode concept. layered bounty type objectives on top of the normal mission objective with environmental hazards, additional enemy actions and a collection of mini-boss enemies that would occur at random. The bosses themselves remain static in how they fight and get defeated but everything around them is dynamic including the player's choices in frame or how they deal with those mini bounties. Do they send in the Invis frame to unlock a vault solo or do they go together? All of which will influence how they approach dealing with the boss when it shows up and there's multiple types that can show up. This type of concept has far outlasting play value over what DE is doing right now.

Sadly i cant remember better examples off the top of my head, but it reminds me of this one game called 20XX, basically think Megaman X in a Rogue like style where you keep going thru a randomized stage map, collecting power ups and eventually reaching the boss to take them down, repeating the process till you actually die and unlock new stuff to make use of on future runs.

Granted, your design fit more around a randomized dungeon with likely multiple paths to take to handle it. But it would be nice if we DID get something like that, it had more to it, like having checkpoints to change your load out, so you can mix it up depending on what the next stage likely will entail, maybe get extra effects by doing additional challenges, they could maybe throw in shutting off certain capabilities each mini-boss could have (Such as maybe tamper with its shields via a electrical surge at a generator room to fry part of his shielding equipment that was recharging? :3).

 

Small P.S. GRANTED, the Kuva lich system does give a new mini-boss like setuppossibility, but it likely might just devolve into a new death squad mechanic where once it gets strong enough, it will likely have a high proc chance of spawning death squads on you, until you decide to tell`m to BUGGER OFF with you sling shotting straight into his ship and suplexing`m so hard you literally break them thru the galleon hull and straight into space.

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1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

Congratulations on demonstrating that taking on Profit-Taker with a squishy frame is difficult enough to be considered an achievement recordable in video form. Looking through the video, the Ember clearly built for survivability (notice the Adaptation stacks, Rolling Guard cooldown, the choice of the Vazarin Focus school), yet still nearly died on multiple occasions, and took significantly longer than average to kill the boss (the recorded fight starts with PT at 50% health). The point was never that it was literally, physically impossible to take on Profit-Taker with a squishy frame, but that it was so unreasonably difficult and inefficient as to not be worth considering -- notice how the Ember's abilities were almost entirely useless, with only Flash Accelerant being used for the bonus Heat damage. You could very well have played a frame with no abilities or innate bonus durability at all and achieved comparably poor results, which is precisely why those frames aren't picked (and are therefore not viable). The issue isn't in "player capability", the issue is simply that picking a squishy frame will put you at a significant disadvantage relative to any other choice, to the point where there is no reason to pick said frame other than for bragging rights in knowingly running the mission in the most inefficient way possible. This may be fine solo, but in a group this makes you a liability to your team, especially when the player's "capability" isn't all that (and I can guarantee you that most people with max rank in SU aren't exactly paragons of skill, because Warframe as a game doesn't really push for deep mastery).

Right, Nyx actually does something for the fight when soloing, as I would show if I had it uploaded.  Just showing you this to show that even someone not avoiding damage as much as I do and needing more survivability mods can use a squishy frame.

vi·a·ble
/ˈvīəb(ə)l/
adjective
  1. capable of working successfully; feasible.
    "the proposed investment was economically viable"

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1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

Congratulations on demonstrating that taking on Profit-Taker with a squishy frame is difficult enough to be considered an achievement recordable in video form. Looking through the video, the Ember clearly built for survivability (notice the Adaptation stacks, Rolling Guard cooldown, the choice of the Vazarin Focus school), yet still nearly died on multiple occasions, and took significantly longer than average to kill the boss (the recorded fight starts with PT at 50% health). The point was never that it was literally, physically impossible to take on Profit-Taker with a squishy frame, but that it was so unreasonably difficult and inefficient as to not be worth considering -- notice how the Ember's abilities were almost entirely useless, with only Flash Accelerant being used for the bonus Heat damage. You could very well have played a frame with no abilities or innate bonus durability at all and achieved comparably poor results, which is precisely why those frames aren't picked (and are therefore not viable). The issue isn't in "player capability", the issue is simply that picking a squishy frame will put you at a significant disadvantage relative to any other choice, to the point where there is no reason to pick said frame other than for bragging rights in knowingly running the mission in the most inefficient way possible. This may be fine solo, but in a group this makes you a liability to your team, especially when the player's "capability" isn't all that (and I can guarantee you that most people with max rank in SU aren't exactly paragons of skill, because Warframe as a game doesn't really push for deep mastery).

"This fight is poorly designed because all the damage verywhere requires that you take a tanky frame!"
"Aha, you see this person built the frame to be tanky and did the fight, proving my point that it's a poorly designed boss!"
No, you just proved the point that you don't know how to build a frame for a fight. Wow the boss deals a lot of damage to you, imagine actually taking that information and building your frame to be able to deal with the situation presented rather than expecting the same build to work in all content and complaining when it doesn't.

Also you straight up lied lol, the profit taker starts the fight at full health:
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This kind of complaint annoys the hell out of me because a bunch of people complain that there's no endgame and nothing to use their powerful mods in, then something like profit taker comes along that actually poses a challenge and everyone complains like they should just get the rewards for watching a cutscene of you killing the thing. And then we get fights like exploiter, a snoozefest of repetitive mechanics without any real threat to yourself if you have any competence at the game.

The problem with profit taker is chroma, not the fight itself.

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