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Suddenly all players left?


Bagadyr
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Sometimes it happens that I play a mission with players and suddenly everyone leaves. No migration, no lags, just everyone leaves. I doubt that they are doing it deliberately because they immediately leave one after one. A bug?

Even this happened on radshare run so they wouldnt leave it on purpose.

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Likley you're host and they've lost connection to you if you're not seeing any migration.

As to reasons why, there are so many variables ranging from the quality of your internet connection to the route it takes to the other players etc it would be hard to speculate.  A bug in the code is also entirely possible but again no real way of proving it.

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30 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

As to reasons why

Its because DE does not have dedicated servers and has player run servers which provide a connection dpending on the host(yeah as you said), but we need dedicated servers for missions to avoid this and mostly host migration but hey idk how mcuh they cost and they must be costly so yeah, just saying dedicated servers would be better :)

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6 minutes ago, Lazarow said:

Its because DE does not have dedicated servers and has player run servers which provide a connection dpending on the host(yeah as you said), but we need dedicated servers for missions to avoid this and mostly host migration but hey idk how mcuh they cost and they must be costly so yeah, just saying dedicated servers would be better 🙂

No we don't need dedicated servers... dedicated servers will cost more money to run which will then need to passed on to the players.   For the amount of players that DE has playing the game dedicated servers are not financially viable without a subscription model.   That's ignoring the sheer processing requirements of dedicated servers for this type of game. 

Not to mention you can technically have the exact same issues with a sever as you can with us being hosts, at the end of the day the process is fundamentally the same....pc a connects to pc b, but in our case it's pc a connects to b,c and d, in the case of the server it's pc a connects to b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i and so on. 

What we need is better netcode so the best host is selected and the ability to not be host etc.  There is nothing inherently wrong with a p2p connection approach if it's got decent code behind it.

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I have not experienced people (or myself) just suddenly losing connection and dropping out in the middle of a mission. Usually it's that people joins a laggy host, gives it a chance to sync, and if it doesn't after a half minute or so they just leave because it's more or less unplayable. Man especially the PoE bounties have been flooded with bad hosts these past couple of days due to NW, so I just played them solo instead.

For public fissure missions many leech on people with specific relics and leave if no one brought what they were looking for after checking. They can't run radshare because they don't have the relics themselves. This happens a lot when there have just been a new unvaulting.

And of course in some missions people simply leave if they feel like the squad can't handle the mission efficiently enough or if they brought a frame/weapon that isn't meta. 

Also if there's a Limbo on the team 😄 

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1 hour ago, LSG501 said:

No we don't need dedicated servers... dedicated servers will cost more money to run which will then need to passed on to the players.   For the amount of players that DE has playing the game dedicated servers are not financially viable without a subscription model.   That's ignoring the sheer processing requirements of dedicated servers for this type of game. 

Not to mention you can technically have the exact same issues with a sever as you can with us being hosts, at the end of the day the process is fundamentally the same....pc a connects to pc b, but in our case it's pc a connects to b,c and d, in the case of the server it's pc a connects to b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i and so on. 

What we need is better netcode so the best host is selected and the ability to not be host etc.  There is nothing inherently wrong with a p2p connection approach if it's got decent code behind it.

The issue with the way P2P is done here, ie where one of the clients is a host... Is just that, they have to HOST the game, this means their computer has to handle all the server tasks on top of playing the game. This is on top of any connection issues there may be. So you could have a great internet connection, but a low end computer, making you a terrible host. This is one thing dedicated servers remove from the equation in most cases. They're designed to only run the server aspect, and are much more suited to it than many people's home PCs. It also solves other problems with P2P which tend to be more common in PvP centric games, in that players have access to other players IP addresses and such, and we all know where some people go with that information.

Not that i'm advocating they use dedicated servers, but they are indeed a better solution in almost all cases.

Edited by IspanoLFW
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4 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

Yeah had this happen a few days ago.. it just made me sad because my provider had some issues.. we were at 10 rounds arbitration interception.. 

I just wish de would finally implement something so that as soon as something like this happens the loot gets saved and sent to the account via inbox..

It really is just unfair..

The problem when suddenly losing connection is that there is no way to save/transfer the progress if the host cannot be reached. It has to be streamed during gameplay, either to a backup host, or to a server that could then bump it to a new host in the party. 

It's different if the host just leaves back to menu, because then all the data is transfered to a new host during the loading screen. 

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11 minutes ago, IspanoLFW said:

Not that i'm advocating they use dedicated servers, but they are indeed a better solution in almost all cases.

Not really. The one case where it shines is when you are looking at the situation of a bad host. If you're comparing it to a host with a reliable connection, it would result in little to no valuable difference.

A few particular sore spots where dedicated servers don't do well though. If it is a requirement to be connected to a dedicated server at all times, even in closed groups, it means that people like OP has to specifically be running the game in solo only, provided the game allows solo games to completely bypass the need for a dedicated server, or risk dropping out of games even if alone in a Invite or Friends only room. The other is when you do not have enough server capability for complete coverage. Last thing you want, is having 200ms to play with your friend sitting in the same room because the closest available server is in a different country.

This problem can be better mitigated with better error handling and recovery on lost packets to prevent the connection closing on a few bad packets as well as a more reliable host migration system such as a 30 second pause during which, all clients can make as many attempts to connect to the new host rather than a single failed attempt and getting booted out completely. OP's case is not helped with dedicated servers, the problem would just be isolated to him.

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2 hours ago, Bagadyr said:

Sometimes it happens that I play a mission with players and suddenly everyone leaves. No migration, no lags, just everyone leaves. I doubt that they are doing it deliberately because they immediately leave one after one. A bug?

Even this happened on radshare run so they wouldnt leave it on purpose.

You are either playing Limbo or you forgot to shower...or brush your Kubrow’s Teef.

But yeah, from an ISP standpoint, dropping isn’t your squad leaving.

Edited by (PS4)Silverback73
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14 minutes ago, Bagadyr said:

But most of the time is fine. Im from Europe so ping is ok. I dont have any network issues, just everyone leaves.

It's a host migration. If everyone leaves at the same time, chances are it's that yeah. 

Even with what looks like a stable network connection on your end. 

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1 hour ago, IspanoLFW said:

The issue with the way P2P is done here, ie where one of the clients is a host... Is just that, they have to HOST the game, this means their computer has to handle all the server tasks on top of playing the game. This is on top of any connection issues there may be. So you could have a great internet connection, but a low end computer, making you a terrible host. This is one thing dedicated servers remove from the equation in most cases. They're designed to only run the server aspect, and are much more suited to it than many people's home PCs. It also solves other problems with P2P which tend to be more common in PvP centric games, in that players have access to other players IP addresses and such, and we all know where some people go with that information. 

Not that i'm advocating they use dedicated servers, but they are indeed a better solution in almost all cases.

It's almost like you didn't read my post to try and make out we need dedicated servers when the fact is we don't....

 

As to the IP issue you mention, if you're worried about your IP being seen by someone then seriously you shouldn't be online because it is literally seen by EVERY site you visit and technically using the right tools you can crawl the web looking for active IP addresses and if they have any open ports (a decent router can protect against this). 

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8 hours ago, LSG501 said:

It's almost like you didn't read my post to try and make out we need dedicated servers when the fact is we don't....

 

As to the IP issue you mention, if you're worried about your IP being seen by someone then seriously you shouldn't be online because it is literally seen by EVERY site you visit and technically using the right tools you can crawl the web looking for active IP addresses and if they have any open ports (a decent router can protect against this). 

Oh, i'm not worried about it being seen. But i've played enough P2P games where people got upset or thought they were smart, to do things like DDoS someone. Yes, DDoSing is illegal, yes it's not a common thing. But that doesn't stop them, because it's honestly hard to track depending on how they go about doing it. When you connect to a Dedicated server, no other client knows your IP and can no longer do this to kick you out of the match. Which for a PvE centric game, is not likely to happen... as I even stated.

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10 hours ago, RX-3DR said:

Not really. The one case where it shines is when you are looking at the situation of a bad host. If you're comparing it to a host with a reliable connection, it would result in little to no valuable difference.

A few particular sore spots where dedicated servers don't do well though. If it is a requirement to be connected to a dedicated server at all times, even in closed groups, it means that people like OP has to specifically be running the game in solo only, provided the game allows solo games to completely bypass the need for a dedicated server, or risk dropping out of games even if alone in a Invite or Friends only room. The other is when you do not have enough server capability for complete coverage. Last thing you want, is having 200ms to play with your friend sitting in the same room because the closest available server is in a different country.

This problem can be better mitigated with better error handling and recovery on lost packets to prevent the connection closing on a few bad packets as well as a more reliable host migration system such as a 30 second pause during which, all clients can make as many attempts to connect to the new host rather than a single failed attempt and getting booted out completely. OP's case is not helped with dedicated servers, the problem would just be isolated to him.

But that's it though. It, barring certain situations, eliminates a player's PC from being the host, not their connection, their PC. It prevents players from exploiting the nature of P2P systems for their advantage(one example in my previous post). Granted that issue is less of an issue, if one at all, in a PvE dominated game such as this one. But that's also why I said "in almost all cases".

P2P as a theory, as a concept, is great. No argument. The problem is the real world is not always so fitting for it.

Edited by IspanoLFW
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Everyone leaving when you're the host (or you host migrate to a solo instance) doesn't only happen with poor Network or Hardware. This was happening to me for a little while after an update a while back. If I hosted, everyone would randomly be kicked out, if I didn't host I would get Host Migration but I would end up alone. This was unrelated to network, didn't happen to partner in the same room, and hardware wasn't an issue, no software updates beyond Warframe itself, and the issue went away on its own with a random hotfix.

If you've been using the same PC and didn't have this issue before, it's unlikely to be hardware related, meaning either your ISP has issues, there's a software issue, or a random bug that doesn't impact most people for what ever reason. You could always submit a ticket with logs and see if they can find anything for you.

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