Blink shouldn't be universal

[S.Dust]

The only reason blink is relevant is because archwing as a mission type has failed, but the open worlds have not, making it a good form of transportation. If railjack ends up actually requiring you to spend an extended amount of time in archwing and actually fighting and not just moving around fast then blink wont matter near as much as it does now and the usage of archwings would balance out on its own. By giving blink to all archwings they just make the amesha the new go to archwing, since it will now have blink and the best abilities. So all they are doing it creating a new go too thing. 

I guess custom archwings are inbound but honestly I hate the custom weapons being added to the game, they're ugly and are just super power creep the best weapons you can make for secondary and melee are currently zaws.

[GinKenshin]

Just now, S.Dust said:

If railjack ends up actually requiring you to spend an extended amount of time in archwing and actually fighting and not just moving around fast then blink wont matter near as much as it does now and the usage of archwings would balance out on its own.

That's a nice 'if' you got there, and it's funny too because most of what we saw from it is that it's basically a transportation between 2 ships 
 

Just now, S.Dust said:

By giving blink to all archwings they just make the amesha the new go to archwing, since it will now have blink and the best abilities. So all they are doing it creating a new go too thing. 

Where's your 'if' for balancing the amesha? as in if they're gonna balance it or not? that's always an option. 

1 minute ago, S.Dust said:

I guess custom archwings are inbound but honestly I hate the custom weapons being added to the game, they're ugly and are just super power creep the best weapons you can make for secondary and melee are currently zaws.

WTF do zaws and kitguns have to do with the looks of AW zaws? you saw them at tennocon, all the parts available, why are you presuming they'll look bad


Let's actually wait for it to launch before we complain shall we?

[(PSN)robotwars7]

you do realize Archwing is gonna get a HUGE overhaul, right? even if they haven't said it outright, there's no way in Hell that DE is leaving Archwing as it is before adding Modular Archwings and all the other stuff with Railjack: there's be reworks. each Archwing will get looked at, Itzal will get a new, and hopefully awesome, first ability, and maybe - just maybe - the flight system won't be absolute garbage this time.

at least wait for Railjack to hit PC before spouting nonsense, you'll probably feel better for it too.

 

[Alaeacus]

25 minutes ago, S.Dust said:

Blink shouldn't be universal

I disagree with you OP.  Blink should either not exist or exist on all.  When one skill has so much more value than all other skills of every Archwing combined, there is a balancing problem.  

Edited July 25, 2019 by Alaeacus

[(XBOX)Dex Xean]

meh if they made blink on CD I be fine with it would save me energy pads spamming it in Tri caps.  yea would take longer to get around but overall probably 30 seconds to a minute really. Also ages ago on a stream Scott had with Tatical Potato iirc they said they plan to allow zaws/kitguns to have skins one day.

Otherwise once there is a custom weapon for every slot on the arsenal loadout no1 would buy weapon tennogen skins anymore.

Edited July 25, 2019 by (XB1)Dex Xean

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

You can't use the Amesha excuse when everyone is literally running Itzal now for missions that aren't even Archwing missions

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

When they say blink is on every Archwing...I've come to the conclusion over the years it's best to just wait and see how everything changes...If they are introducing module Archwings...having a power set might not be a thing after that download hits...So Amesha might be screwed or all the wings might be on par in some other way..You just never know until they really showcase it..and even then...it's a not sure bet a month in...

Edited July 25, 2019 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[Midas]

Ever heard of the word cooldown? I guarantee blink will have a BIG cooldown.

[RX-3DR]

My general concern with giving Blink to everything is the effect it'll have on the general gameplay for Archwings. Removing the value of distance by allowing people to close that instantly will also remove the threat value of traversing that distance. Last thing we need, is for Archwing missions is to become regular missions without walls, people zooming past and ignoring everything between themselves and the objective with absolutely no chance for enemies to do anything. Designs such as Temporal Dreegs and the Fomorian cannon would be borderline pointless if there aren't some severe limitations in place.

[Oreades]

25 minutes ago, Midas said:

Ever heard of the word cooldown? I guarantee blink will have a BIG cooldown.

Yeah pretty much what I'm dreading, 

It was even evident from the Tennocon demo that there was something like a 2 second delay at least between when Reb blinkjumped with the AW. 

So I'm getting a real "FINE! but you're not gonna like it...." vibe from the upcoming change to Blink. 

 

About the only thing I'm curious about now is what ability they're gonna give to the Itzal to compensate for removing Blink as an ability. 

[Midas]

1 minute ago, Oreades said:

Yeah pretty much what I'm dreading, 

It was even evident from the Tennocon demo that there was something like a 2 second delay at least between when Reb blinkjumped with the AW. 

So I'm getting a real "FINE! but you're not gonna like it...." vibe from the upcoming change to Blink. 

 

About the only thing I'm curious about now is what ability they're gonna give to the Itzal to compensate for removing Blink as an ability. 

Itzal Blink Master Race 😉 

[Miser_able]

Except that blink isn't the only thing that makes itzal good. Cosmic crush is also a great ability, allowing players to easily gather all enemies and loot into one area. Itzals group invis is also handy, though trickier to use. 

[SirTobe]

I don't mind all AW's having "Blink" as long as they all have their own twist to it, like additional effects/buffs/debuffs, range, cost, etc. I'd like to see pros and cons. 

[Talinthis]

I would use other archwings if DE didnt have S#&$ ai and bandaid the solution to let them shoot you out of it with homing missiles constantly.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

I like it if blink had charges that recharge after using it. Not just one use then a long cooldown.

[beercritch]

For my 10p there is 2 problems with archwings. 

Firstly too many of the mods are all hard to farm. Ive been hacking away at the list pretty hard and am only now short of three but its been a long haul. OK some smart guy will say just why not trade for them, but the whole point of this game is the grind so I dont see trading as an alternative especially as when railjack catches on and every man and his dog suddenly want these mods. What you cant deny is that once you have all the mods to chose from archwing is actually pretty nifty.

The second problem is when using archwing in free roam you just get shot down too easily. I guess this is why they are thinking of putting blink on all archwings, but it will make no difference to the launch and get instantly shot out of the sky problem that exists now. I feel they just need to be a bit more durable in these cases, but lets see how the changes pan out. It might be fantastic.

[(PSN)Mono-Pop]

7 hours ago, S.Dust said:

The only reason blink is relevant is because archwing as a mission type has failed, but the open worlds have not, making it a good form of transportation. If railjack ends up actually requiring you to spend an extended amount of time in archwing and actually fighting and not just moving around fast then blink wont matter near as much as it does now and the usage of archwings would balance out on its own. By giving blink to all archwings they just make the amesha the new go to archwing, since it will now have blink and the best abilities. So all they are doing it creating a new go too thing. 

I guess custom archwings are inbound but honestly I hate the custom weapons being added to the game, they're ugly and are just super power creep the best weapons you can make for secondary and melee are currently zaws.

Nah you’re being too logical. DE likes to get angry and nerf stuff when it’s being used for its intended purpose.

WHAT!? PEOPLE ARE USING THE FAST ARCHWING TO GO FAST!? Ridiculous, let’s ruin all the archwings.

 

WHAT!? People are farming resources with the frame we made for farming resources!? Impossible! How could our playerbase be so cruel!

 

etc, etc.

 

For the record, I’m a fan of Warframe and of DE, but damn do these guys look proper incompetent sometimes.

[FireSegment]

7 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

you do realize Archwing is gonna get a HUGE overhaul, right? even if they haven't said it outright, there's no way in Hell that DE is leaving Archwing as it is before adding Modular Archwings and all the other stuff with Railjac

erm .... DE .... err .... *deep breath* .... rework Archwing 2 times before, but the change wasn't welcome. Titania current form of AW is the remnant of the first version of it that we got. (that's why they don't mention if they reworking it or not may be)

 

[JackHargreav]

I have slight feeling that the forums will be nothing but "blink sucks" once the archwing rework  hits. 

I bet all my plat.

[Charlsendrex]

cough

 

So, SUPER unpopular opinion here, but I see a lot of "itzal is only good because of Blink". So, uh isn't that sort of the point, here? I guess what I'm saying is, nobody likes when their favorite frame/weapon/equipment gets, you know, the N word (nerfed, that sounded better in my head). But just saying "waah waah waah I only use this one AW because it has this one ability" kind of illustrates precisely why they're making this sort of move.

Like, I know that AW has many, MANY problems, and I know that for the most part AW choice is little more than "use Itzal, or else just use the one you think looks the coolest", but I suppose my concern is that, frankly, I'm getting sick of being railroaded into optimum meta builds (in all parts of the game) and, at best, drawing the ire of anyone else I'm playing with when, say, I take a few seconds longer to kill an Eximus enemy or parkour slightly slower because I'm using a "heavy" frame.

I know the thing about power fantasy, why speed is King/the nature of The Grind, etc., is its own topic and discussed to death, but it's just a bit annoying that people are unashamedly already saying "if I don't have a broken movement mechanic only available to a single AW choice, thus invalidating every other AW, I'll hate it". Like, maybe DE will make AW mods drop more regularly. Maybe RJ missions will give you a trove of mods. Just, you know, something will happen to reduce the grind for an unplayed game mode with broken movement mechanics.

The power fantasy is great, but just like any other game with dozens of choices, it often feels like if you don't choose "X" and instead choose any other letter of the alphabet, you're WRONG, boo, what a loser! I like the idea of Elytron for example (heavy bombardment and whatnot), except obviously the Archguns do more damage more efficiently anyways. Why not buff its skills? Make them more impressive, visually too while you're at it? With RJ, assaulting warships and whatnot, it makes sense to have a "bomber" AW to torch turrets and stuff.

Except, as this thread and community sentiment makes clear, everyone instead wants to be able to go SANIC SPEED, figure out the cheesiest way to complete RJs as quickly and mindlessly as possible, just to get whatever rewards. 

Seriously come on people, is there not a problem when the very first thing you think of when you hear about content like this isn't:

"man, this'll be cool to be like, in this epic 20 minute battle against enemy warships with a group of people flying alongside me while another group is "buffing" us by completing a mission on the surface"?

But instead, the first thought is:

"There better be a way to blitz these so we can get them done in 5 minutes and collect up mods and/or rewards, hopefully some are worth plat so we can hawk them to innocent newbie whales who have money to burn but no concept of valuation or knowledge of how easy this stuff is to get, there's no reason to play it otherwise".

TL:DR keep your meta grindfest blitzing as you want, and just, like, let at least ONE part of the game just be, you know, "fun"? People do it just to enjoy themselves? Not like there aren't dozens of other farming opportunities between syndicates, rivens, arbitration, open world, relic popping... Is it too much to ask for just ONE game mode that is just fun for the sake of it?

... Right, I'll get off my soapbox now.

 

Edit: specifically for the open world thing: buffing other AWs abilities to make them worth using in open world would make it worth using something other than Itzal, which is used to shave those precious few seconds between going from bounty site to site, from the Eidolon or Orb to Fortuna, etc.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Angrytiger

[Bagadyr]

Itzal is the best for me. I use blink but also other abilities in archwing missions. 

Cloak yourself and you can be invisible to enemies in space and kill them easily. Vacuum is also great to stack enemies and get loot in one place. 

[Fallen77]

Il y a 7 heures, RX-3DR a dit :

My general concern with giving Blink to everything is the effect it'll have on the general gameplay for Archwings. Removing the value of distance by allowing people to close that instantly will also remove the threat value of traversing that distance. Last thing we need, is for Archwing missions is to become regular missions without walls, people zooming past and ignoring everything between themselves and the objective with absolutely no chance for enemies to do anything. Designs such as Temporal Dreegs and the Fomorian cannon would be borderline pointless if there aren't some severe limitations in place.

How is it different from what we have now ? 

People ARE blinking past entire archwing missions like formorian.

How would a general weaker blink change anything more than the stronger exclusive blink we have ?

The missions will stay about the same, only you can choose whatever AW you want.

[iLightning13]

Mobility should be built into archwings in different ways.

Eg, Elytron: Core Vent boosts movement speed by x% for y seconds. Or, it throws the player forward with a big ass explosion behind them like with blink.

      Odonata: Disarray provides a speed buff. As an in-game explanation, it would help to avoid the missiles shot at you and ensuring they target the flares.

      Amesha: I haven't played this one before, so I dunno.

[Charlsendrex]

1 hour ago, iLightning13 said:

Mobility should be built into archwings in different ways.

Eg, Elytron: Core Vent boosts movement speed by x% for y seconds. Or, it throws the player forward with a big ass explosion behind them like with blink.

      Odonata: Disarray provides a speed buff. As an in-game explanation, it would help to avoid the missiles shot at you and ensuring they target the flares.

      Amesha: I haven't played this one before, so I dunno.

See, this is the kind of adaptation I hope for.

Don't necessarily take away Itzal's qualities that make it the "speed focused AW" and just slap it on every AW, but on the other hand come up with some sort of mobility solution that allows other AWs to have a reason to be used.

But let's face it, no matter how agile you make them, the entire point of why this thread and its contentions exist is that Itzal goes fastest in a straight line, and that's literally all that is apparently important.

So unless you DO directly share a broken mobility ability, whichever one DOES have it (Itzal) will remain the dominantly used one, because AW missions are ignored except as point-to-point races. The blame here, of course, is not on the players, it's on the fact that just as with any other mission, AW gameplay offers little to no impetus to you slowing down. Indeed, the vast majority is about reaching one objective point or another, and just like with anything but defense-type missions on the ground, there isn't much reason to slow down.

[iLightning13]

 

18 minutes ago, Angrytiger said:

See, this is the kind of adaptation I hope for.

Don't necessarily take away Itzal's qualities that make it the "speed focused AW" and just slap it on every AW, but on the other hand come up with some sort of mobility solution that allows other AWs to have a reason to be used.

But let's face it, no matter how agile you make them, the entire point of why this thread and its contentions exist is that Itzal goes fastest in a straight line, and that's literally all that is apparently important.

So unless you DO directly share a broken mobility ability, whichever one DOES have it (Itzal) will remain the dominantly used one, because AW missions are ignored except as point-to-point races. The blame here, of course, is not on the players, it's on the fact that just as with any other mission, AW gameplay offers little to no impetus to you slowing down. Indeed, the vast majority is about reaching one objective point or another, and just like with anything but defense-type missions on the ground, there isn't much reason to slow down.

I agree. The biggest issue is that the other archwings are outclassed in skywing because they aren't useful for the actual bounties; that means their only use is transport and Itzal is the best at that.

To fix it, applying Blink to everything isn't sufficient. They all need speeding up (aside Itzal), but their skywing applications need to be improved too. A few suggestions for that:

• Give them all a minimum base speed of 1. Tighten the disparity between the others so you have Elytron with 1, Odonata and Amesha with 1.05 and Itzal with 1.1 or 1.15.
• None of those insta-dismount rockets and attacks. Whenever you're playing the objective (and stationary) you'll get hit with one of these.
• Have the abilities more suited to fighting in open worlds. Odonata's rockets barely scratch enemies on the Plains. For example, have a HUD overlay where you select the targets to shoot rockets at (a bit like Anthem's most boring Javelin).
• Better accessibility to mods so we can build them better. In other words, the mods shouldn't be in AW missions exclusively because they aren't fun to play for the majority of the player-base.
• Better ways to earn energy. The biggest issue I find in skywing is that I barely get enough energy. Currently I just use Energising Dash when I equip it, but when airborne you virtually just have to wait until your energy regenerates at that hilariously slow pace.
• Everything to do with movement should be looked at. Being in archwing should be just as useful as being in warframe, so stop the insane amount of drifting and the floatiness of them.

Edited July 25, 2019 by iLightning13