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Dev Workshop - Revisiting Augments

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Posted (edited)
Am 25.7.2019 um 19:41 schrieb [DE]Bear:

Hysterical Assault - Hysteria Augment - Valkyr

  • Let invulnerability linger for half a second when aiming to prevent getting downed immediately in high-damage areas 
  • Increased Range 

its really nice to finally see a dev workshop about augments but:

range is not the issue of this augment, neither is the invulnerability linger. hysteria is just a panic button and an option for typical eternal war build due to both requiring duration, with some added efficiency hysteria is usable but not the main focus. to give hysteria and henceforth hysterical assault more purpose both need a buff that makes them actually more valuable over eternal war + strong melee.

hysteria's trade off when expiring and potential insta-selfdown is not the issue, the issue is hysteria being too expensive over time for what it offers. invincibility is nice but any eternal war + good melee weapon kills so fast that there is practically no need for invinc unless were talking about those levels of enemies which are far above sortie and something the big majority of players doesnt play. below that its just press 2 because there is no really useful alternative on valkyr right now.

considering the lack of movement/energy cost if players used ripline for the only real purpose which is spiderman-mode the augment for hysteria needs to be good. ripline is no alternative to get around with since its slow/cluncky and hysteria doesnt need something that drains energy even more. fun is nice and fine, but hysterical assault is just a wasted mod slot right now and some more range and the lingering invinc wont change a single bit because thats not the issue of the augment/hysteria-valkyr.

if u really want to keep hysterical assault the way it is then reduce hysteria cost over time and give hysterical assault a real purpose, like:

executes a swipe with her claws on the pounced target with a guaranteed slash procc, which uses her claws modded stats for calculation and an additional procc chance based on the claws status chance. also allow it to be cast just on surfaces: ground -> just a leap to get around faster. on a wall -> jumps to that point on a wall and instantly latches for ~1 second onto the wall unless another command is given. consecutive "targetless" pounces increase the next pounce's damage by ~25%, stacks 3 times. 

i would go even further and now suggest a change of ripline and its augment too, but then we could as well talk about the arguments justifying a valkyr "rework" or "touchup" but i guess thats too offtopic here.

 

if hysteria didnt have that energy cost growth and hysterical assault in a way at least similar to my suggestion above i could legit see a furious kitty jumping from spot to spot, from enemy to enemy wrecking havoc without any eternal war and other melee besides her claws, but right now there is just nothing in her kit that outvalues eternal war + good melee. even the invincibility of hysteria is no argument anymore because dead enemies dont hurt u...and warcry gives an armor buff too which paired with adaptation means valkyr is practically invincible on 95% of the starchart anyways.

 

greetings~

Edited by Xydeth
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Posted (edited)

I'm glad these augments are getting attention - can't wait to play around with all of the augment changes in the game!

On 2019-07-25 at 1:41 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Furious Javelin - Radial Javelin Augment - Excalibur

  • Increase duration and damage on the buff

Just throwing this out there, but furious javelin would need some really substantial buffs to duration/damage values to make it a strong contender for the mod space. Even with an efficiency-heavy build, it's a pretty costly ability with a comparably long cast, so chances are really good that in most group play situations you'll only tag 3-4 enemies instead of getting a big ol' 12 enemy damage buff.

My suggestion: has anyone considered just outright switching the effects of Furious Javelin and Surging Dash? Making it so that RJ increases the combo counter per enemy hit, and Slash Dash increases melee damage per enemy targeted? RJ would see some benefit from getting sporadic casts to keep up the player's combo counter in areas where the distance may be difficult to cover, and Slash dash is pretty good as a gap-closer for melee focused play, so having a melee damage buff (even from targeting one or two enemies) would be a huge benefit there.
 

Edited by JoeyZero
Spelling and phrasing and stuff and junk

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On 2019-07-25 at 11:11 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Hysterical Assault - Hysteria Augment - Valkyr

  • Let invulnerability linger for half a second when aiming to prevent getting downed immediately in high-damage areas 
  • Increased Range 

This is a band aid because the current melee rework phase breaks exalted weapons and you know it.

Greatly disappointed with this direction , would have preferred if you addressed the core issue instead of doing this

this just shows you have given up on trying to fix the issues made with the rework. seeing this as the very first augment change really really made me sad.

On 2019-07-25 at 11:11 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Rising Storm - Blade Storm Augment - Ash

  • Attacks by clones will raise the combo counter 
  • Include a passive benefit to extend the combo counter by a duration

what? wasn't this already part of the ability? guess you are nerfing base ability- augment change itself makes no sense otherwise.

On 2019-07-25 at 11:11 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Titanic Rumbler - Rumblers Augment - Atlas

  • Increase to damage and speed 
  • Re-triggering the power will activate the taunt, as well as cause a knockdown effect

Hallowed Eruption - Hallowed Ground Augment - Oberon

  • Additional passive ability that triples base duration

Furious Javelin - Radial Javelin Augment - Excalibur

  • Increase duration and damage on the buff

Tidal Impunity - Tidal Surge - Hydroid

  • Increase the duration of the immunity buff

Magnetized Discharge - Magnetize Augment - Mag

  • Include a passive benefit that increases power range for this Ability only 

Muzzle Flash - Shooting Gallery Augment - Mesa

  • For kills made by a player (self or ally) with Shooting Gallery activated, generate a blinding AoE when threshold is met

Explosive Legerdemain - Sleight of Hand Augment - Mirage

  • Increase damage and status chance when triggered

welcome additions , but not enough to make me use the augments , if there was a dedicated slot for the augments though ... i may consider it.

On 2019-07-25 at 11:11 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Total Eclipse - Eclipse Augment - Mirage

  • Increase range on the buff to other players

The unreliability of the UI and environment that the base ability depends on makes the sharing of this ability with allies equally unreliable.

would rather have the option to freely (or with energy cost) switch between shadow and light buffs .

On 2019-07-25 at 11:11 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Piercing Roar - Roar Augment - Rhino

 

  • Allow Roar to be recast when equipped
  • Increase debuff duration based on equipped Mods
  • Generate a stagger effect on enemies when the Roar hits

 

Absolutely pointless and i don't see a reason for it. Rhino has a much better CC ability via his stomp.

Puncture procs are currently not useful for low levels and don't matter at high levels. better option would have been to add a status removal on allies or terrify effect on enemies or means to extend duration via kills.

the recast is nice , but unnecessary - adding it to base ability would be a QoL change.

On 2019-07-25 at 11:11 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Contagion Cloud - Toxic Lash Augment - Saryn

  • Allow buff to activate when enemy is killed by damage over time effects
  • General increase on range and damage

Transistor Shield - Electric Shield Augment - Volt

  • No additional energy drain when a shield is picked up by another player
  • Increase damage conversion %

Target Fixation - Tail Wind Augment - Zephyr

  • Remove buff after 2 seconds of being on the ground, instead of immediately
  • Damage increase per target hit

as per my earlier statement , welcome additions , but still not enough to make me use the augments due to space constraints,

On 2019-07-25 at 11:11 PM, [DE]Bear said:

 

Fireball Frenzy - Fireball Augment - Ember
Freeze Force - Freeze Augment - Frost
Smite Infusion - Smite Augment - Oberon
Venom Dose - Spores Augment - Saryn
Shock Trooper - Shock Augment - Volt 

 

  • Holding the casting button will send out a wave (much like similar, expanding Warframe Abilities) giving the elemental buff to every player it touches, including the caster

Interesting , the self buff is what these augments really lacked , and having to aim at a player that is on the move is rarely ever successful , usually wasting energy in the process.

Could be useful for support oriented players - i wont be using it though cause, you guessed it , no space on my builds, and i would play an actual support frame if i wanted to support.

 

What i really wanted to see here was augments for the most versatile frame we have Equinox,

Equinox has some excellent augments that can make you play differently but they are so limiting  - her duality is low on time , her energy transfer is something that should have been innate, her calm and frenzy locks you into a form for a very (relative) long time to be useful, calm and frenzy is solid no complaints for that mod, but you are forced to mod for a very specific build and not switch at all - the whole purpose of having a frame with two forms is destroyed.

Suggestion:

Merge duality and Energy transfer into a single metamorphosis augment - cause clearly there is no intent to make it innate.

Switching forms splits you and the clone retains the earlier values of her form (including her 3 and 4), it would synergise with peaceful provocation as well.

keep switching aback and forth (before duality effect expires) to ensure the abilities stay at their peak.

Clone dying / expiring would reset the abilities (mend and maim would function similar to how it does when you are downed).

And a duration buff would be nice too (her base ability buffs of armor , shield , speed and damage just lack any significant impact and last too short a duration to even be noticed).

 

But i am glad that this workshop is open so players can give some directed feedback, also just the effects description and no values makes it hard to judge some of these augments.

 

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My only question: estimated time of release.

For the most part, I'm happy for those changes, especially those elemental augments for Ember, Frost, Oberon, Saryn, and Volt.

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Yeesh,

if the augments that are listed here are the only ones being looked at, I must say I'm kind of disappointed :o 

Feels like a missed opportunity to integrate some augments -especially some of the older ones-  into their base ability (either removing the augment or changing it in the process)

Examples would be: Seeking shuriken, hushed invisibility, ice wave impedance... The list goes on...

Some changes proposed here aren't particularly exciting either (rising storm: clones already add to counter without the augment? the augment already increases combo duration?)

The planned changes to piercing roar and muzzle flash however, do seem quite nice :D

 

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-07-25 at 1:41 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Target Fixation - Tail Wind Augment - Zephyr

  • Remove buff after 2 seconds of being on the ground, instead of immediately
  • Damage increase per target hit

I'll be honest, I've been trying so hard to make this work, could we maybe see something else to buff Zephyr's damage output after holding her 1?

It's HARD to make this work in closed corridors, considering half the time you end up just pinned to the wall for a year after pressing 1

Edited by Zephyr

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On 2019-07-25 at 5:03 PM, DeeDeetheSpy said:

Sounds good, Makes Ash more useful for AOEying

How is that nerf good in any way?

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Le 25/07/2019 à 19:41, [DE]Bear a dit :

Contagion Cloud - Toxic Lash Augment - Saryn

  • Allow buff to activate when enemy is killed by damage over time effects
  • General increase on range and damage

I use this augment and lot and wow, allow it to proc with DoT is an insane buff.

Also, instead of simply buff damages and range, would it possible to lower the base value but make it scale with mods or maybe consider the damages value and type from the hit that triggered the cloud ? Because right now, it perform too good at low level, while being almost useless damage wise at higher level. Sure it scale with power strength, but make it scale with damage you deal would balance it at both low and high level.
Alternatively, allow it to proc the status from damage type that trigger the cloud would give it more utility use without increasing the damage if it can proc heat, blast, electricty or any other CC effect.

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Posted (edited)

@[DE]Bear

I know it's been mentioned already but Enveloping Cloud seriously needs a revisit. It's arguably one of the worst augments in the game due to the fact that attacking negates it.

On a side note: I've noticed people saying that the augments should be built into the abilities themselves. While I can't really agree with that completely, as there are sometimes mechanics from the augments I don't always want to use with certain abilities, there is another way to fix this issue.

Simply add an additional slot on frames for augments only. An "augment slot"

Basically like an exilus slot but for augments. And just like exilus mods already work, you can still install an augment in the regular mod slots like an exilus mod.

This way if you're playing a frame like Rhino where two augments is common for an iron skin build you still have to take up one "traditional" mod slot (calling it T slot) but can also use the proposed augment slot. Then Rhino's who use this build only have to use one T slot rather than 2 T slots just for augments.

This would also allow plenty of current builds that tend to use just 1 augment to use 2, making current builds a little more interesting. In fact, builds that don't use any augments might be more inclined to use any one augment! On top of that, frames that might not be so firendly to Umbra builds (such as Loki, Limbo, and more) have an alternative "augment(s)" build they can use. And due to mod capacity it won't make frames already friendly to umbral builds more OP (with the possible exception of Umbra Excal due to him having 3 Umbra polarities).

It would also be nice if this "augment slot" comes polarized to augments already since they all have the same polarity

Edited by AntiMomentum

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On 2019-07-25 at 7:41 PM, [DE]Bear said:
  • Let invulnerability linger for half a second when aiming to prevent getting downed immediately in high-damage areas 
  • Increased Range 

Nooooooo i liked the older augment PLEASE DON'T DO THIS PLEASE

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11 hours ago, Zephyr said:

I'll be honest, I've been trying so hard to make this work, could we maybe see something else to buff Zephyr's damage output after holding her 1?

It's HARD to make this work in closed corridors, considering half the time you end up just pinned to the wall for a year after pressing 1

hold 1 while close to enemies

float and get the buff

press 1 while aiming at the ground

kamikaze!

it's really simple in close quarters, i always use this augment with the hold part of the ability because it's more controllable 

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17 hours ago, Xydeth said:

executes a swipe with her claws on the pounced target with a guaranteed slash procc, which uses her claws modded stats for calculation and an additional procc chance based on the claws status chance. also allow it to be cast just on surfaces: ground -> just a leap to get around faster. on a wall -> jumps to that point on a wall and instantly latches for ~1 second onto the wall unless another command is given. consecutive "targetless" pounces increase the next pounce's damage by ~25%, stacks 3 times. 

yea...let's try to fit all that in the augment card...

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Fireball Frenzy - Fireball Augment - Ember

Ember needs a way to activate her passive!
Include in her augments the ability to inflict self heat proc. 

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vor einer Stunde schrieb (PS4)Hopper_Orouk:

yea...let's try to fit all that in the augment card...

the augments descirbtions dont tell u everything, same as ability describtions in case u didnt notice.

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14 hours ago, AntiMomentum said:

@[DE]Bear

On a side note: I've noticed people saying that the augments should be built into the abilities themselves. While I can't really agree with that completely, as there are sometimes mechanics from the augments I don't always want to use with certain abilities, there is another way to fix this issue.

Simply add an additional slot on frames for augments only. An "augment slot"

Basically like an exilus slot but for augments. And just like exilus mods already work, you can still install an augment in the regular mod slots like an exilus mod.

This way if you're playing a frame like Rhino where two augments is common for an iron skin build you still have to take up one "traditional" mod slot (calling it T slot) but can also use the proposed augment slot. Then Rhino's who use this build only have to use one T slot rather than 2 T slots just for augments.

This would also allow plenty of current builds that tend to use just 1 augment to use 2, making current builds a little more interesting. In fact, builds that don't use any augments might be more inclined to use any one augment! On top of that, frames that might not be so firendly to Umbra builds (such as Loki, Limbo, and more) have an alternative "augment(s)" build they can use. And due to mod capacity it won't make frames already friendly to umbral builds more OP (with the possible exception of Umbra Excal due to him having 3 Umbra polarities).

It would also be nice if this "augment slot" comes polarized to augments already since they all have the same polarity

Came here to post this.  Could be done one of two ways: 

  1. Add another slot (or slots) that act like the Exilus slot.  
  2. Turn Augments from "mods" into "arcanes" and give each skill its own "aug-cane" slot.  

The argument in favor of this is one of opportunity cost.  There are only so many mod slots, and there are so many great mods out there.  Giving augments their own slot means players can choose whether to use the augments (having more choice in how their abilities play) and DE can spend more creative energy developing new augments instead of having to buff the existing ones.  

DE already did this with the augments for Zaws and Kitguns by calling them "exodia" and "pax" and giving those weapons arcane slots.  (They should go back and do this for all the weapons that have augments).  

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Posted (edited)
vor 21 Stunden schrieb AaronGamer11:

How is that nerf good in any way?

Because most of them don't even know how Bladestorm or the Augment works....
Not even the PPL at DE...  or they hate Ash.

Edited by Somi_xD
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On 2019-07-25 at 10:41 AM, [DE]Bear said:

Furious Javelin - Radial Javelin Augment - Excalibur 

  • Increase duration and damage on the buff

would be nice if it added SOMETHING more to the ability, such as more status procs (maybe all three IPS procs) in addition to what it already does......MAYBE then i would actually use the augment and not just let it sit in rep store. As it stands, the ability STILL is useless in anything over level 15.

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Posted (edited)

...

I'm speechless.

For such a long list of changes, I've never been so disappointed by DE. I saw the title and got my hopes up. Man did i get bummered when actually reading it...

So, let me tackle this:

On 2019-07-25 at 7:41 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Hysterical Assault - Hysteria Augment - Valkyr

  • Let invulnerability linger for half a second when aiming to prevent getting downed immediately in high-damage areas 
  • Increased Range 

 

Bandaid to the max. The augment is still gonna remain bad, and still overlaps with the function of Ripline. REWORK IT (and Hysteria's horrendous mechanics, for that matter).

Quote

Rising Storm - Blade Storm Augment - Ash

  • Attacks by clones will raise the combo counter 
  • Include a passive benefit to extend the combo counter by a duration

 

So... you're gonna nerf the base ability? Cuz the first part is part of the base ability already. Regardless of how you're changing things, it's still a terrible augment to a rather bad and overly clunky ability.

Quote

Titanic Rumbler - Rumblers Augment - Atlas

  • Increase to damage and speed 
  • Re-triggering the power will activate the taunt, as well as cause a knockdown effect

 

Can't really comment on this, cuz I don't know if you mean you are lessening the speed-penalty, or downright making it faster. Still, bad augment for a bad ability that needs a lot of baseline changes.

Quote

Hallowed Eruption - Hallowed Ground Augment - Oberon

  • Additional passive ability that triples base duration

 

Still an augment that removes versatility (since you can only lay down one carpet), and simply makes it another Reckoning. So... it's still bad on all levels.

Quote

Furious Javelin - Radial Javelin Augment - Excalibur

  • Increase duration and damage on the buff

 

Sigh... The base ability stinks AND so does the augment; He has enough damage already! If it gave Excal SURVIVABILITY, instead of more damage, it'd MAYBE be a useable augment. MAYBE.

Quote

Tidal Impunity - Tidal Surge - Hydroid

  • Increase the duration of the immunity buff

 

Still a horrendously weak augment that could EASILY be a baseline effect to an underwhelming ability.

Quote

Magnetized Discharge - Magnetize Augment - Mag

  • Include a passive benefit that increases power range for this Ability only 

 

Still baaaaaaaad (it's just a lame QoL-augment, basicly). Unless the power range bonus is absolutely massive, I guess?

Quote

Muzzle Flash - Shooting Gallery Augment - Mesa

  • For kills made by a player (self or ally) with Shooting Gallery activated, generate a blinding AoE when threshold is met

 

Finally something that seems to add something potentially worthwhile. MAYBE.

Quote

Explosive Legerdemain - Sleight of Hand Augment - Mirage

  • Increase damage and status chance when triggered

This is getting tiring. The base ability stinks quite badly, and the augment basicly just adds QoL... bake it into the base ability already and make something interesting with the augment (you know, like most of the augments above also need?)

Quote

Total Eclipse - Eclipse Augment - Mirage

  • Increase range on the buff to other players

 

Ok, this would maybe make it into a useable augment (do note; the range would need to be massive). Still, very niched and utterly useless when solo, still.

Quote

Piercing Roar - Roar Augment - Rhino

  • Allow Roar to be recast when equipped
  • Increase debuff duration based on equipped Mods
  • Generate a stagger effect on enemies when the Roar hits

 

So... ANOTHER QoL augment for Rhino? This is just getting laughable... Because, you know, the puncture proc basicly does nothing, and the stagger is not worth it when you have Stomp for a miniscule more amount of energy to cause a much better CC... This augment needs a total rework.

Quote

Contagion Cloud - Toxic Lash Augment - Saryn

  • Allow buff to activate when enemy is killed by damage over time effects
  • General increase on range and damage

Dunno, I feel it would still be useless. It's not like Saryn needs more damage anyway (make it a survivability augment, and then we'll talk).

Quote

Transistor Shield - Electric Shield Augment - Volt

  • No additional energy drain when a shield is picked up by another player
  • Increase damage conversion %

 

It's a shame, because the conversion thingy is very powerful if used correctly ... but I loathe the augment for also allowing allies to pick up the shields. Still, I guess these are fixes that can't hurt *shrugs*

Quote

Target Fixation - Tail Wind Augment - Zephyr

  • Remove buff after 2 seconds of being on the ground, instead of immediately
  • Damage increase per target hit

Aaaaand another useless augment trying to be kept alive. REWORK IT! It's useless. Tail Wind is a mobility tool, not a damage tool (and it never will be, unless you make it scale with melee mods or something - low flat damage such as that of Tail Wind is absolutely laughable in this game, if you haven't noticed that yet >_>)

Quote

Fireball Frenzy - Fireball Augment - Ember
Freeze Force - Freeze Augment - Frost
Smite Infusion - Smite Augment - Oberon
Venom Dose - Spores Augment - Saryn
Shock Trooper - Shock Augment - Volt 

  • Holding the casting button will send out a wave (much like similar, expanding Warframe Abilities) giving the elemental buff to every player it touches, including the caster

Oh wow, FINALLY something good (potentially, unless you cripple the range, as usual)! I would applaud it, if it weren't for the fact that basicly the rest of the above "improvements" just make me feel like I wanna laugh and cry at the same time...

Edited by Azamagon
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Posted (edited)
On 2019-07-25 at 1:41 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Rising Storm - Blade Storm Augment - Ash

  • Attacks by clones will raise the combo counter 
  • Include a passive benefit to extend the combo counter by a duration

Um... They already add to combo per attack. How about giving the augment Combo per Bleed tick.

 

Transistor Shield - Electric Shield Augment - Volt

  • No additional energy drain when a shield is picked up by another player
  • Increase damage conversion %

This better not be a nerf in disguise. There's no reason to mess with this augment.

Saryn - Venom Dose

This is easy. Revert it back to +%Toxic damage so it's useful against all factions again. You guys ruined an otherwise good team buff.

___________________________________________________________________________

Furious Javelin - Radial Javelin Augment - Excalibur

  • Increase duration and damage on the buff

Magnetized Discharge - Magnetize Augment - Mag

  • Include a passive benefit that increases power range for this Ability only 

Please check out my Mag / Volt / Excal Jav post for a good synergy and augment improvement to all three frames, esp Mag / Excal.

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited by Xzorn

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this a great changes!
this could open up to a lot of new meta and synergies between different warframe abilities.
imagine rhino staggering entier enemies in the room with roar
or saryn/oberon + chroma + mirage dmg buffer

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  • Allow Roar to be recast when equipped
  • Make this apart of the base ability itself, AND DO THE SAME WITH IRON SHRAPNEL
  • People wont use it for the"augment" they USE it to get base game funtionality that get ripped out and put on the dang augments. STOP DOING THAT
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Posted (edited)
On 2019-07-25 at 7:41 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Rising Storm - Blade Storm Augment - Ash

  • Attacks by clones will raise the combo counter 
  • Include a passive benefit to extend the combo counter by a duration

Bladestorm already increase the combo counter and the combo duration is useless since we have drifting contact, body counter and naramon. If u really want to buff him just speed up the clones animation by 85% so that we won't be forced to use primed fury and gladiator vice if we want to use bladestorm Ash. Maybe rework his 1 instead and give him 2 or 4 more shurikens so that he can strip armour to more enemies.

Edited by Khantico

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18 hours ago, Rempit said:


Fireball Frenzy - Fireball Augment - Ember

Ember needs a way to activate her passive!
Include in her augments the ability to inflict self heat proc. 


@[DE]Bear Suggestion to improve the augment for Ember's 3rd skill "Fire Fright" to self proc heat inside the AOE with the heat proc lasting a few seconds after exit that scales with skill duration.
Something like a Wisp reservoir that will trigger Ember's passive. 

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On 2019-07-25 at 6:33 PM, cookieknife said:

do more

zephyr misses dropbomb vortex

I'm thinking the same idea would fit great onto an Air Burst augment, since we still don't have one. 

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