Melee 2.399... What do you guys think?

[nuwbertron]

I had a bit of time to get to grips with this thing and i feel comfortable pointing out its flaws now.

Firstly, autoblock. On a scale from 1 to bad this gets a solid "Please God make it stop!". I cannot begin to tell you how many times i took a hit, got stunlocked, flung off the map, missed an attack, or otherwise got annoyed by this feature. On top of all that, it's not even reliably annoying for it triggers semi-randomly (or for attacks coming from verry specific angles).

Exhibit B, channelling, or more to the point the toggle channelling feature. This is just an extra layer of micro-management that has no real value, shure i could press *insert channel key* five times until i figure out if it's on or off (because it turns off if you run out of energy and doesn't turn back on) but i would rather not, if that's alright with you. Maybe change the collor of the crosshair or something when channeling (no, a change of five lumens in the brightness of the weapon particles isn't just as good).

Point another one, instant melee and removal of quick attack. No complaints here, move along. Seriously though, i was never a fan of quick attack spam and i find myself using my gun more (almost never as opposed to never).

But that was just my two cents... represented by a wall of text.... Maybe one of these is in order:

Tl;Dr: Autoblock: bad. Channel toggle: pointless micro-management. Instant melee: yay.

What do you guys think? Am i off the mark here or is this really something to consider?

[Lazarow]

Id liek manual block and a more noticable way to see when you are channeling on the UI and not have to depend on the visual effects on the blade/frame as I have effects on low and FX trails off so I just want an icon at the weapon name/stance name to show when its channeling and when not

[nuwbertron]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)GaussPrime said:

I like auto block 😞 I hope they make it an option at least to keep it..

An option to disable it in settings would certainty be the "have the cake and eat it too" way. I approve.

[bananacat89]

I still have not figured out the channeling on a xbox one controller. Or a keyboard and mouse. Every now and then someone in group claims to have it figured out but never do. Even my hardcore vet friends are baffled over its usage and activation method.  The auto blocking is strange to. I agree it gets me into lots of bad situations. Half the time when i want to block it does not work and when I don't want to, it works. I don't really mind it but I don't really rely on it. 

And as usual the weapons that benefit from a high Reach pretty much obsolete all the low reach ones. IMHO anyway. This needs to change. It is a pretty goofy mechanic. Hitting things from ten feet away from the end of your weapon is just silly. I feel like the melee in Warframe is stuck in a state of only being viable for a few niche weapons. That is a shame considering how many cool melee weps we have. It would be nice if 90% of them were not mastery fodder. I know they said reach changes were coming and not to get to comfortable with the current state of things but its been so long that I think many of us have just accepted it will never change. melee 2.399. Melee 2.75. Melee 3.0 makes no difference.  It needs to be revamped from the ground up. Little changes here and there is not enough. Especially when they are things we never even asked for.  

Edited July 27, 2019 by bananacat89
spelling

[Genitive]

22 minutes ago, (XB1)GaussPrime said:

I like auto block 😞 I hope they make it an option at least to keep it..

Everything else, me like, except that using "block" combos is "marking" your frame to pull out the weapon as soon as you stop attacking, this is so annoying that I just stopped using those combos..

They should make it so that after using the combo, doing a normal attack "unmarks" you from pulling out the gun..

Auto block wouldn't be that bad if it worked properly. This issue you mention here and auto block glide kill it for me.

[nuwbertron]

1 hour ago, Genitive said:

Auto block wouldn't be that bad if it worked properly. This issue you mention here and auto block glide kill it for me.

Aah... autoblock glide... The memories...

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

I like the auto block too as it definitely makes melee smoother for me. I do think an option would satisfy the masses. 

[Gabbynaru]

Not fond of auto-blocking. Never cared about channeling (waste of energy). Love the instant weapons switching. Give me quick melee back cause the combos are absolutely terrible.

[nuwbertron]

50 minutes ago, (PS4)GEN-Son_17 said:

I like the auto block too as it definitely makes melee smoother for me.

Have to disagree with you on that one chief. If anything autoblock breaks the flow of melee. Since autoblock became a thing not only can you not chose when you block a knockdown attack (attacks you might be imune to but block nonetheless) you also lost melee momentum (attacks that can't be interrupted). Also you can get stunlocked due to autoblock.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

Disagreeing is good for the soul! Lol!

Our playstyles might be different. Deflecting at speed gets me in position to create any "gun-fu" attack I wish and I've never experienced momentum loss yet on combos, even with a shotgun blast in between. I have experienced the stunlock after a heavy gunner ground slam but, immunity aside, I don't see that as a negative as it definitely saved me from a knockdown and I'm still in damage reduction mode. That is so few and far between an occurrence so I think that's why I'm not bothered by it.

To each their own, definitely.

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

Well i like the system currently as is more then the past.  Why not just let players go into the options and change it to what suits them.

Each setup has its own faults/benefits.

Edited July 31, 2019 by (PS4)Kakurine2

[ExcaliburUmbra]

The auto-block and fast-switch additions have resulted in me actively using the block feature more then I’ve probably ever used it before the update. If I see a heat wave or heavy slam, I can just hit the melee key and instantly be in position to block the attack. Previously I would have to already have my melee equipped to have a chance at reacting to block, since the gun-bolstering and melee unsheathing animations would forcibly delay my actions. 

[(XBOX)VaricBreem]

i just wish channeling would turn back on if you toggled it on an run out but then get energy back its annoying constantly clickin my stick yo see if its on

[sungod1]

Auto block - bad

Combos - mostly bad and I do not want to work at them until they get the rest of the changes in. 

Channeling - needs a balance or something or it is just a toggle for life strike.

 

But come on melee is still pretty good right now, we can agree on that. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by sungod1

[VentiGlondi]

Wukong's new staff is really nice in that you can interrupt any combo at any moment and switch to another combo, and the combos are noticeably different.

If that's the new standard then I like where this is going.

[(PSN)OerbaYunFangSta]

On 2019-07-27 at 6:22 PM, bananacat89 said:

I still have not figured out the channeling on a xbox one controller. Or a keyboard and mouse. Every now and then someone in group claims to have it figured out but never do. Even my hardcore vet friends are baffled over its usage and activation method.

Press every button/key to figure out the controls. Gamer 101

[Nichivo]

Auto block and channel on a toggle bother me to no end. I miss having the ability to split second channel only key attacks with my left mouse. Hate is a strong word, but I am not sure it does justice to my disdain for the current melee.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Nichivo

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

autoblock needs more development but its a idea on the right track

[5H4DE]

DE said last devstream that they're looking into how to bring back sword alone and keep it as fluid as it is now in weapon swapping mid-combat.

[BDMblue]

My problem with the new melee is what a heard compared to what I saw.

What I mean is they said in the devstreem that hitting the old block button while attacking would close the gap.

It does not do this. You do forward moving attacks that give you a foot of movement. A foot when we can jump 50 feet what is this? This should have been a derelicted fall attack (like you do when u jump and attack down) towards your target. What we got was Wukong throws his stick... great.

if they want me to like it I need to fly all over the level with this combo of buttons so it feels useful and fits with are already over the top movement.

Edited July 31, 2019 by BDMblue

[Kimimoto]

On 2019-07-27 at 12:59 PM, nuwbertron said:

What do you guys think?

Loss of aimglide = bad

Just make 'Quick Melee' swap to melee and 'Swap Weapon' switch it back to primary/secondary

Idk why they dropped this in phases considering it sounds like they haven't worked on it at all based on what they said last Devstream. The community will blindly praise their celebrities though, one step closer to the drain.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Kimimoto

[Sonicbullitt]

On 2019-07-27 at 5:59 PM, nuwbertron said:

I had a bit of time to get to grips with this thing and i feel comfortable pointing out its flaws now.

Firstly, autoblock. On a scale from 1 to bad this gets a solid "Please God make it stop!". I cannot begin to tell you how many times i took a hit, got stunlocked, flung off the map, missed an attack, or otherwise got annoyed by this feature. On top of all that, it's not even reliably annoying for it triggers semi-randomly (or for attacks coming from verry specific angles).

Exhibit B, channelling, or more to the point the toggle channelling feature. This is just an extra layer of micro-management that has no real value, shure i could press *insert channel key* five times until i figure out if it's on or off (because it turns off if you run out of energy and doesn't turn back on) but i would rather not, if that's alright with you. Maybe change the collor of the crosshair or something when channeling (no, a change of five lumens in the brightness of the weapon particles isn't just as good).

Point another one, instant melee and removal of quick attack. No complaints here, move along. Seriously though, i was never a fan of quick attack spam and i find myself using my gun more (almost never as opposed to never).

But that was just my two cents... represented by a wall of text.... Maybe one of these is in order:

Tl;Dr: Autoblock: bad. Channel toggle: pointless micro-management. Instant melee: yay.

What do you guys think? Am i off the mark here or is this really something to consider?

Overall ? i think I am going to have to disagree, besides the new slam attacks, melee has become far more clunky to use in my opinion with the constant auto switching from melee to gun. I want "melee mode" back without the instant switching BS . I was the person that used the melee mode very often and used the fire button when switched to it, I hated spamming E, yet now I am practically forced to do so if I want my gameplay to be effective, efficent and smooth. so in the end I just ended up using my polearm zaw with a maim effect riven, since it is the easiest and least annoying melee type to use, while also having a fast and easy spammable basic combo, in other words it forced me to rely on the maiming strike effect almost entirely, completely negating the reason behind changing melee in the first  place.

I want manual block back, auto block is not only clunky and doesn't work most of the time, but it also makes block combos irritating to near impossible to use. It basically ruined excal for me, because for some goddamn reason they thought it would be a good idea for exalted weapons to still consume energy when you switched to another weapon. DE were trying something new and I think for the most part it didn't work, in the end it actually made melee feel more clunky to use, atleast to me anyway.

DE focused too much on streamlining melee that they lost some key benefits of the old system. With the old system you got to choose when and where you wanted to use your melee. If you just wanted to break open a resource or orokin box for example you could just quickly tap melee, then if you wanted full access and combo set of your melee weapon you could just switch to the melee mode, even if it was a bit slow to do so. It wasn't perfect for sure, but it was still better than what we have today.

You didn't have problems after switching to melee when you didn't want to and vice versa, nor problems with performing block combos, when switched to your melee weapon, nothing else got in your way, you had full access to your melee weapon. You could block whenever you wanted, the combos besides the basic spam attack were easier to perform and you had no trouble with accidently switching to another weapon while performing a combo by pressing the fire/ aim button by mistake.

There was no problem with "melee mode" besides the slowness of switching to it, for the first part of the system all they needed to do was make a better way to switch to it, not scrap the entire thing. I do not want to have to only bring a melee weapon and forgo bringing firearms to a mission just to get the full benefit of my melee weapon and better control of it, that is a direct downgrade of the previous system. I like changing things up mid mission, maybe I want to use my primary for a certain period of time , then my secondary weapon and then my melee in whatever order I may choose. As it stands I use melee signifcantly less than I used to, besides on my Saryn when I run ESO and only bring my melee weapon.

I think till DE can come up with a better solution for both styles of players, they need to offer us back the older system as a choice in the game's options. Just like Archwing, those that like the new mode can continue to use it while those that liked the old style can use that instead. There is literally no negative effect to giving players more options in how they wish to play the game.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Sonicbullitt

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

I'm not getting your arguement Sonicbullitt. You can switch between every form of attack fluidly, instantly and without any drawbacks except for the quick strikes. I 200% do not miss the old system, the delay between drawing the melee, the delay between switching back to weapons. The sheer clumsiness of it then, makes no sense to me now, especially if we're supposed to be super space ninjas. 

That said, I'd love for melee 3.0 to mimic Wukongs 4. Combine the multiple stances since they offer different move sets, utilizing each one based on a button hold (aim) and make the controls configurable between which button set controls which stance mod. Lastly, for melee weapons with several silver and gold stances, allow the player to choose one of each in the load-out.

Ex:

Melee = silver stance melee mod combos

Slide + melee = standard slide attack

Aim + melee = gold stance melee mod combos

Slide + aim + melee = channeled slide attack (requires x amount of energy)