Timegates in warframe (Nitain Extract)

[Siegersamen]

Hello everyone, I want to start a discussion about timegates in warframe. A timegate is a mechanic which requieres you to wait realtime for Ingame Features. Such as. Building times, invasions, nightwave.... you get the picture.

I don't like timegates at all and I wish all of them would be removed or massivly reduced but I'm very well aware this is wishful thinking. Thankfully most of the warframe timegates are Soft, meaning they can be avoided with Plat and I do take advantage of that because I hate waiting. At least it's farmable. The way I play games is I play in Periods of massive gamer days 12h+ and leave the game. Probably the worst timegates for the game in my opinion are Junction timegates and some early quests since, as a noob, you can't really progress without them. When I played the starcard I had to wait several times and had to stop playing, there was nothing meaningful to do. Holding me back from playing and taking the fun away.

Now that I'm progressed the absolute worst timegate for me is [Nitain Extract]. It's horrible. My foundry is full of unfinished warframes only needing Extract. It's requiered for way to many things and not seriously farmable at all and behind Timegates requiering weeks if not months to wait (Nightwave). I need 100 already. I didn't calculate it but you probably need 500+ for all frames. Also Creds are needed for other things too. Sabotage C is really not a viable option. Ghoul invasions somewhat are, at least to get some. Considering how much Extract one needs they still not are and they're only available for a short time. You would need to play hundreds of bountys. The Forma timegate can be avoided with Platinum and I do. The Prime Warframes can't bought with plat. Please add Nitain extract to the shop for about ~10p I would make great use of it. Another option could be to make it tradeable. Fieldtron / Mutagen / Detonite injector is another timegate but at least you can avoid that with plat, expensive but fair.

Thoughts?

[Firetempest]

Used to be rng locked with old alerts and if you had the time to catch one daily, you still had to wait months for everything. 

Could it be tossed into the store? Sure. Why not. Imo. But this is not the feedback forum either.

[GinKenshin]

you barely need 200 to build everything in the game that needs nitain. you can easily spend some creds on nitatin and have more for auras and other essentials. it's all about resource management here, it's still better than 1-2 nitain per day 

they won't give you any other way to get it since it's a time gate, that's the whole purpose of it. you just buying it defeats that purpose 

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

Stop spending platinum to rush foundry items. 

Learn some patience.

Get into an outdoor hobby.

I find warframe works best as a daily check in game, maybe one hour, maybe a few more when you have time. If you need to do massive day long sessions, just start to view getting the blueprints as a win and then finishing the crafting as a second win.

Warframe is a marathon, not a sprint

[seprent]

2 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

you barely need 200 to build everything in the game that needs nitain. you can easily spend some creds on nitatin and have more for auras and other essentials. it's all about resource management here, it's still better than 1-2 nitain per day 

they won't give you any other way to get it since it's a time gate, that's the whole purpose of it. you just buying it defeats that purpose 

last time i checked it was 189 to build everything nitain related once 

i have 161 and i dont know what to do with it except buy more for how often i dont use it like you reach the nitain use point where it just stops being needed 

[ADM-Ntek]

1 hour ago, seprent said:

last time i checked it was 189 to build everything nitain related once 

i have 161 and i dont know what to do with it except buy more for how often i dont use it like you reach the nitain use point where it just stops being needed 

yup 189 to build everything plus another 18 if you also have to do all the research yourself. and from that 36 are just cosmetics so not really that important.

[Oldskinzz]

Warframe in essence is a free to play game with elements of pay for convenience.

If I've read the developer's intentions correctly, they have intentionally stopped short of completely allowing everything to be skipped by paying, keeping some requirements for a certain level of player skill and time investment. So nitain falls into such a niche, unfortunately for OP.

Now I'm not going to comment on whether that's the best strategy for them or whether i personally agree with that... but that's the current situation. By my estimate maybe 90% of items in game are buyable and perhaps that's a balance between player effort and outright pay to win like some other games out there. So it could perhaps keep those dedicated players with thousands of hours invested happy, and it could also keep those with money and want to skip the grind happy. Or it could also p*ss both sides off. But one thing for sure, they can't please everyone.

[seprent]

2 minutes ago, ADM-Ntek said:

yup 189 to build everything plus another 18 if you also have to do all the research yourself. and from that 36 are just cosmetics so not really that important.

while i can understand the people who want to build everything asap or what ever me being a minimalist and only building things if i have to or finally choose to do it point it never fully clicks when needing nitan was a problem for me was with the old alert system and vauban prime that was a week and then some of effort of syncing up my time to the game that i never want to do again

now its just get rank 1 in nightwave obtain 50 nitain thats 12.5 days of farm condensed into like maybe a half an hour of effort as a side effect of nightwave i have more kuva then i know what to do with as i have chose to not invest in rivens as i do not like them

[ADM-Ntek]

12 minutes ago, seprent said:

while i can understand the people who want to build everything asap or what ever me being a minimalist and only building things if i have to or finally choose to do it point it never fully clicks when needing nitan was a problem for me was with the old alert system and vauban prime that was a week and then some of effort of syncing up my time to the game that i never want to do again

now its just get rank 1 in nightwave obtain 50 nitain thats 12.5 days of farm condensed into like maybe a half an hour of effort as a side effect of nightwave i have more kuva then i know what to do with as i have chose to not invest in rivens as i do not like them

i find it a little funny that the 20k kuva you get from nightwave are enough to craft everything that needs it.

Edited July 28, 2019 by ADM-Ntek

[seprent]

Just now, ADM-Ntek said:

i find it a little funny that the 20k kuva you get from nightwave are enough to craft everything that needs it.

already did it idk what to do with it all i need more things to build with it or something more interesting i can dump it into besides those purple mods or idk lemme drink it i did before i want more forbidden cherry cool aid 

[Tenno76856]

Probably not the game for you.

Your impatient type who wants things to happen fast. If there was an issue with the "timegate" mechanics there would be a much bigger outcry against it.

Its a super grindylootershooter. Mean to be played in short bursts. Not long sessions and expect things to happen fast.

[Yamazuki]

2 hours ago, seprent said:

last time i checked it was 189 to build everything nitain related once 

It's less than that when you subtract the items that can be bought with plat, given the op says they're fine with using plat to skip getting Nitain themselves.

Given they're complaining they can't buy fully built Primed Warframes with plat, they only need about 61 Nitain Extract [I think] for all the Prime variants of Warframes.

[ultra_instinct_ssj]

I probably do not share your pov because I play regularly for small periods. Initially I played for a lot more at a time but the game gradually made me get into this mode, otherwise I'd probably be a frustrated as you.

Now I just naturally play like that and have gamer days only for events and new content.

Then again, if you are a post millenial, it might just be the instant gratification entitlement that is bothering you lol (sorry for generalizing :p)

 

[Siegersamen]

5 hours ago, Oldskinzz said:

If I've read the developer's intentions correctly, they have intentionally stopped short of completely allowing everything to be skipped by paying, keeping some requirements for a certain level of player skill and time investment. So nitain falls into such a niche, unfortunately for OP.

Thats great! So far I'm a free to play-player myself. I mostly like these mechanics. It shouldn't be pay to win and rather play to win. But my problem here is that it's more like nothing to win even if you play, which is worse than pay to win in my opinion.

I usually grind out these mechanics, all of my plat spend, which is alot by now is grinded. I've done it in warframe so far, I've done it in other games and I'm not afraid to grind but I'd like to have a fair option to do so. 2% in Sabotage C is not fair, there should be a hard but easier alternative to grind nitain extract if you really want to, like me. It doesn't have to be platinum.

Also my point for junctions still stands. I really think less realtime mechanics would make warframe a better game. Not everyone plays warframe like some of you here do.

Do me a favor and put more effort in your post than +1 a "Get a hobby" quote. I could advice you would stop playing video games altogether and focus on finding new friends, learn spanish, eat healthier food, sleep more.... but that has nothing to do with the topic and would make me ignorant, wouldn't it? I'm not a Millenial and I can't imagin why that would be important for this thread.

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Siegersamen

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

8 hours ago, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

Stop spending platinum to rush foundry items. 

Learn some patience.

Get into an outdoor hobby.

I find warframe works best as a daily check in game, maybe one hour, maybe a few more when you have time. If you need to do massive day long sessions, just start to view getting the blueprints as a win and then finishing the crafting as a second win.

Warframe is a marathon, not a sprint

 

[HellVOps]

9 hours ago, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

Stop spending platinum to rush foundry items. 

Learn some patience.

Get into an outdoor hobby.

I find warframe works best as a daily check in game, maybe one hour, maybe a few more when you have time. If you need to do massive day long sessions, just start to view getting the blueprints as a win and then finishing the crafting as a second win.

Warframe is a marathon, not a sprint

+1

[Lutesque]

10 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

you barely need 200 to build everything in the game that needs nitain. you can easily spend some creds on nitatin and have more for auras and other essentials. 

No you definitely cannot.... believe me tried....

Mind you im not even talking about just this season alone either. 

I started after Nightwave season 1 ended which means I was around for Nitain Alerts that dropped on those weekends..... that plus the Nitain We got from this the intermission plus the nitain from this season has left me with no cred to spend on Auras.... I don't have Dead Eye or Energy Siphon....

Right now on sitting on 31 Nitain and still have a few Warframes I need to build.... luckily I think theres just a few left..... but just to be safe il be buying more nitain....

10 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

they won't give you any other way to get it since it's a time gate, that's the whole purpose of it. you just buying it defeats that purpose 

This... funnily enough.... is the truth....

[Ryim_Drykeon]

Well, from your join date (just a few months after mine), if you had been working for Nitain all along (under the old Alert System) you would have plenty. I currently am sitting on 258 and that's after building every Frame/Weapon currently in the game and Researching a Clan solo. I may have passed over a few cosmetics that I didn't like the look of, but that's about it.

Now, since the last Nightwave allowed players to get a ridiculous amount of Nitain over the course of the event (stating from a player viewpoint of being in game over a year, so should already have all the dumb things like cosmetic to buy with NW cred), you again should have way more than you need. Now we have the current NW up selling Nitain at a rate of 5 per 15 Cred. Now I haven't been pushing hard on NW since I find it boring as hell, but even with a casual approach to it I have 200 Cred that I haven't spent at all. That allows me to buy 13 sets of 5 Nitain if I wish. Quick math for you, that's 65 Nitain.

So why are you short on Nitain again?

Rewards = Effort.

[SneakyErvin]

You've been here about as long as I. It simply looks like a "wha! wha! I hate nightwave!" thread hidden behind text that doesnt really saying it straight up.

You, like me and everyone else with about that much or more time under their belt should have no problems with nitain. If it suddenly turned into a problem for you now I guess you've never actually been interested in building the nitain items or obtaining the resource to begin with.

Also, when the hell did junctions turn into timegates?

I played intensively to say the least during my first few months and I never felt I ran into any timegates that hindered me. I really dont mind the crafting times of frames etc. It is a good deal to solve the free-to-play thing. Those that cant wait will spend plat (which is free to get aswell aslong as you trade).

Plus, you arent ment to get everything at once in the game. Plan ahead, pick what you want/need and go from there.

[Siegersamen]

16 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

Well, from your join date (just a few months after mine), if you had been working for Nitain all along (under the old Alert System) you would have plenty. I currently am sitting on 258 and that's after building every Frame/Weapon currently in the game and Researching a Clan solo. I may have passed over a few cosmetics that I didn't like the look of, but that's about it.

I don't know about the old system, I just logged in to an old account about 4 weeks ago, The last nightwave was halfway through, I even didn't spend all of my old  creds because I didn't know how the system works. Now I could use them. :S

That means I had no Nitain in stock because I was Rank 2 or so. I just play alot. I did every nightwave Archievment I could. There're only 2 I could not do because, well, timegates. profit taker and Gilding a zaw. I couldn't get the standing needed.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Siegersamen

[Ryim_Drykeon]

2 minutes ago, Siegersamen said:

 I just logged in to an old account about 4 weeks ago,

Then you need some patience. You are not going to get much of anything in 4 weeks in any game that requires farming/grinding to gather resources. Pick what you want to build in order and work on the list.

A bit of good news (that you may not have caught in 4 weeks) is that there will not be a "pause" in the ability to get Nitain like between NW 1 and NW 2. DE said that was an oversight (which is why they added the "emergency" Alert missions to get Nitain between NW 1 and NW 2) and have put in plans so Nitain will always be available to gather in one form or another. So keep on the NW and look for news on the next series, or whatever new plans DE implements for Nitain Acquisition.

[SirTobe]

Much easier to get it through Nightwave now compared to the old random alerts. So technically it has at least been improved recently. You got it easy 😄 

If you rather spend plat then you can still buy most non-prime warframes with it. Same with all cosmetics and many of the weapons.

[Ham_Grenabe]

Eh, nobody likes timegates. They're not there for us to like them, though; just to keep us coming back regularly. 

BTW: if you like rushing things with plat, do it. It's your plat, spend it however you like. It's not like you can turn it back into real money at the end or anything.

[Steel_Rook]

While I realise that nobody intuitively likes time gates, they're useful for a few reasons. In order for progression to work as designed, it needs to be gated in some fashion. Mostly, progression is gate by gameplay - kill stuff, get drops, do missions, beat challenges, etc. However, because different players play at different speeds and can have vastly different amounts of time available to actually play, you end up with issues actually balancing said progression. Balance it too low and the high-activity players will blow through it and start asking for more. Balance it too high and the low-activity players won't be able to progress at all and start complaining about the grind. Time gates (daily/weekly caps, say) are a decent middle ground solution. Time-gated progression can be balanced pretty low, meaning low-activity players can make decent progress while high-activity players will be barred from progressing too fast.

For me, though, time gates serve an additional purpose - they allow me to feel satisfied with the game in even shorter sessions. Yes, if I'm playing Warframe full time then I'm obviously going to exceed those caps easily. However, I'm burned out on Warframe currently and playing it in very limited sessions. Being able to jump in for a couple of days and be "done" with the bulk of the progression for the rest of the week means I can keep active without lapsing entirely. If progression were balanced around constant activity day-in and day-out, then my choice would be to either focus on Warframe or sod off and play something else entirely. Time gates help make even moderate playtime feel satisfying.

About the only time gate style I actually hate are the Chinese MMO "endurance" systems, where you're actively barred from playing the game after X amount of hours "for your own good." I'm fine with not making progress if the underlying game is fun to play (and Warframe is), but being locked out of it is where I draw the line.

[RamonLLLL]

13 hours ago, Siegersamen said:

Hello everyone, I want to start a discussion about timegates in warframe. A timegate is a mechanic which requieres you to wait realtime for Ingame Features. Such as. Building times, invasions, nightwave.... you get the picture.

*sigh* and ALERTS, you get the picture.

13 hours ago, Siegersamen said:

I don't like timegates at all and I wish all of them would be removed or massivly reduced but I'm very well aware this is wishful thinking.

It is.

13 hours ago, Siegersamen said:

The way I play games is I play in Periods of massive gamer days 12h+ and leave the game. Probably the worst timegates for the game in my opinion are Junction timegates and some early quests since, as a noob, you can't really progress without them. When I played the starcard I had to wait several times and had to stop playing, there was nothing meaningful to do. Holding me back from playing and taking the fun away.

They are not the worst, you can really progress easily. They are fun.

13 hours ago, Siegersamen said:

The Prime Warframes can't bought with plat.

Yes they can.

13 hours ago, Siegersamen said:

Please add Nitain extract to the shop for about ~10p I would make great use of it. Another option could be to make it tradeable. Fieldtron / Mutagen / Detonite injector is another timegate but at least you can avoid that with plat, expensive but fair.

Thoughts?

It's 15nwc for 5 and it's fair enough for everyone. They can be obtained through invasions which are not severely timegated. OP is just another impatient gamer who spends plat on unnecessary things

4 hours ago, Siegersamen said:

Also my point for junctions still stands. I really think less realtime mechanics would make warframe a better game. Not everyone plays warframe like some of you here do.

Then Warframe is not the game for you.

4 hours ago, Siegersamen said:

I'm not a Millennial and I can't imaging why that would be important for this thread.

Irrelevant.

Edited July 28, 2019 by RamonLeeYJ