Nyx Rework should be finished

[Enchillado]

Hello, reader.

Getting used to receive big reworks if a prime/deluxe skin comes out for a problematic warframe may be a little insolent of me, I know. But I see some fixes for Nyx here and there. She's still outdated though, as sad as it is, and I don't want to be like "MOAR MOAR", but there are things to be done. Seeing Gauss and his VFX actually inspires for thinking about even design improvements.

 

Passive (0)

Current: Enemies are 20% less accurate when targeting Nyx.

Commentary: As much as I would appreciate its simplicity, it's just no fit for her thematic and role. It sounds like something that would complement agile assassin's or trickster's design (Wukong, Loki, Ash, etc.) and be useful on a tank or bruiser. On a "Manipulator of Minds", it is lazy designwise while being useless as her defensive stats and tools have absolutely no synergy with that.

New Passive (0) (Mind Control)

When Nyx is targeting a stunned enemy for 1 second without attacking them, she convinces them to fight on her side. Limited to one servant at a time.

Commentary: As a button, Mind Control is pretty boring, especially when Revenant has a copy of this ability, overloaded with different tradeoffs and mechanics. I suggest moving Mind Control to Nyx's Passive to free whole skill slot, create a difference between similar/better abilities of other warframes, and enhance the thematic and style of Nyx. The idea is driven by how logical it is as a concept. Using this passive would be satisfying yet we have one extra ability to play with.

Handling the problems / Explaining details:

• Damage and negative effects servant receives from Nyx and her allies are delayed by 10 seconds or until servant is changed. Nyx can get rid of her servant by aiming at them directly and opening fire, so occasional and splash damage will not cause awkward situations.
• To avoid unintentional change of servant, I suggest to add extra 1-2 second(s) to that mechanic for when you have an active servant. It also stops Nyx from abusing this Passive.
• If enemy recovers from stun in the process of converting, they will turn their face to Nyx and stand still until becoming a servant or direct contact is broken. Nyx is allowed to finish converting that way.
• If enemies die too fast, then... Well. This ability has never been crucial to Nyx's kit. Finding the right opportunity for new Mind Control is the matter of seconds.

Design: Servant's health, shields, name should be displayed on the Nyx's HUD. Conversion progress is shown as a filling ring around the crosshair, designed to not overlap the charge / reload interface element.

 

Psionic Blast (1) (new ability) (25 energy)

Nyx releases a psionic impulse in a target direction. For 2 / 5 / 7 / 10 seconds, it travels and absorbs all enemy projectiles, accumulating their damage. Psionic Blast stuns enemies and spreads Chaos on contact. Next Psionic Blast deals damage accumulated by the previous one.

Mechanic: Acts as a moving barrier that increases in size while traveling at a slow pace. If Psionic Blast hits an enemy under chaos effect, the chaos effect with its duration is copied to enemies hit after them.

Commentary: There are three main ideas and reasons behind this new ability:

• Add a tool to react to an immediate threat.
• Add a tool to maintain your Chaos when new enemies appear so you won't need to spam Chaos. This allows us to add some utility to Chaos recast.
• Add something that would serve a link between Nyx's main theme and Absorb in terms of design.

Explaining details:

• While spreading Chaos, the duration is not combined but overlapped by bigger value.
• Duration affects the speed of Psionic Blast, meaning it has fixed travel distance so low speed offers more duration.
• Range affects the size of Psionic blast.
• Strength affects the accumulation percentage.
• Damage types are stored separately.
• Stun duration is 1 second, not affected by Duration.

Design: Mostly transparent radial diffusion effect that Nyx sends out from her head while pressing her fingers against temples. How is that pose not even used with such a warframe? lmao

 

Psychic Bolts (2)

Commentary: The ability is pretty strong now, it has some use with good Strength and Augment. At times, it feels like it does nothing even if it does something because bolts are slow and you don't always know what they hit. At first I wanted to suggest some mechanics here but people find it clunky. After some deep thinking, I agree. What we want here is to add some details and subtle changes.

Handling the problems / Explaining details:

• Since currently recasting cancels any effects of the previous cast, I suggest adding 1 or 2 seconds stun for enemies whose debuff was canceled that way. A targeting system leaves a lot to be desired, so we might hit something we wouldn't expect to hit, thus not knowing about that since visuals are not that flashy too. This ability is designed to focus and obliterate, so the feature is not abusable, it only adds something good at times when it's bad.
• I'm not entirely sure how it works now, but bolts should travel slowly and randomly after cast, however, once you barely tickle an enemy with your reticle, the nearest bolt locks on it and immediately blasts into their face, happens only once per enemy in a span of one cast. We need it to be noticeable and smooth. You press the button and you feel feedback. In the current version, it almost looks like that's exactly how it supposed to work. But I don't feel it, hence the extra text.
• Servant and enemies under Chaos are likely to switch their aggro onto debuffed enemies. It's just subtle and good for QoL. Remember this is the Manipulator of Minds we're dealing with here.

Augment: Long stun and 400% more damage received from mind-manipulated enemies (servant, Chaos).

Design: This is optional, but there could be some barely visible 2D marks for debuffed enemies, like on Archwing, but with significantly different design and low opacity.

 

Chaos (3)

Commentary: This is probably Nyx's strongest ability, yet it feels extreemely outdated as the game continues to evolve. My biggest concern with it is its visual design. It's just terrible. But this is potentially a great-looking ability. Not only that, but we can also make it sligtly more interesting.

Additional Mechanics:

• If Chaos is applied on a servant or reapplied on an enemy that targets/attacks another enemy, instead of stun they receive a short decaying buff of following stats: movement speed, attack speed, fire rate, damage.
• If Chaos is reapplied on an enemy that targets/attacks an ally, they suffer from a heavy stun and gain high threat level.
• Nyx becomes glitchy and transparent near enemies under chaos effect, losing enemy attention.

Design: Instead of terrible looking holograms of Nyx on each enemy's face, let's make something else. All affected enemies have some confusion effects around their heads. When they target/attack someone, a hologram Nyx or her allies has a chance to appear in a line between confused and the target. This hologram plays the same animation as the original played at this moment (e. g. running) before quickly vanishing. There is an underlined mechanic above, in which case the hologram of a random ally in a taunt animation appears inside the enemy for the entire duration of stun.

 

Absorb (4)

Commentary: The problem of this ability is that it takes away mobility while giving very little in exchange. A lot has changed since Nyx was released, so the super overpowered invulnerability is no longer relevant. Especially when at the end you're locked in an animation that is very likely to kill you. A-a-after being locked in one place and restricted to no actions whatsoever. Espe-e-ecially when there is an additional drain for every 1000 damage you absorb. A-a-and there is Leech Eximus, nullifying orbs, Ancient Disruptors (I think you're immune to magnetic proc, but it sometimes fails to avoid on-hit energy drain).

I lean towards comparing this ability to Equinox's Mend & Maim, Wukong's Cloud Walker and Defy. If you imagine using Absorb to deal AoE damage, then Maim is pretty similar, but 1000 times better ability to use. Defy is just the same thing, but more focused. Cloud Walker allows us to see how invulnerability with mobility works... So there are some invulnerability or accumulative skills that are far better, so to speak. I want to suggest adaptive and intuitive changes that can make Nyx's Absorb relevant.

The changes:

• Add flight capabilities when active. This should be slower than Wukong's Cloud Walker.
• Decrease the range of the explosion drastically. The range increases when you stay still, but it also slightly decreases flight speed, both having a cap. Current Absorb's range is 10 meter while Maim has 18. Let Absorb grow to at least 15.
• (!) Add a smaller bubble that also changes its radius that way. That bubble will be explained later.
• Changes above require adding another animation to Absorb with a smooth transition between two. I like how Nyx meditates, and I like how it would look like if she only meditates while staying still and transitions to some extreme warlock channeling animation if you move, and back likewise. Those animations won't affect your movement.

All those changes offer mobility and that old-fashioned Absorb, you can choose whichever you prefer at any given situation, while your choice is not overloaded with any buttons and switches. You simply decide whether you want to move or to stay and enhance your AoE. You can easily change your mind at any point. But we're not stopping there.

• Remove additional drain per 1000 damage. Even if balancing that would require to increase cast and/or channeling drain - it's more consistent, we don't want to have predict-heavy unnecessary calculations on something that should be reliable.
• Nyx forces all enemies in Absorb bubble (!) to attack her.
• Chaos effect forces AI to remain in the Absorb bubble (!) by any means. This means that if any enemy under Chaos is outside the Absorb bubble, they will run into it before any actions they have planned.
• Enemies under Chaos effect ignore Nyx's presence while some portion of their damage output is also accumulated. This is an optional balance lever for a case when having both abilities active becomes overpowered.
• Explosion bypasses obstacles in the environment. Maim does. Maim strong. Absorb be strong too. Unga bunga AoE damage and knockdown.
• Remove the passive damage gain per second, remove the initial damage and damage cap. Add a damage accumulation multiplier so it would at least give the impression that you did damage when finishing Absorb. While we have 500k Maim, ahem... This suggestion makes it more dependent on the situation at the battlefield.
• (nerf) Move the damage conversion to 8 seconds weapon damage buff to an Augment.

While many would disagree with the last two, this would reduce the informational and mechanical overload on a vanilla ability. I don't think anyone would find themselves in need of current Assimilation Augment with such changes, so we could make that not-so-logical mechanic an Augment which sounds good. As far as I know, the duration of this weapon buff is 8 seconds unaffected by Duration. On Augment, it would certainly be Duration based so you could mod it to reach an impressive and consistent weapon boost that would feel close to what Harrow does. Sound neat.

Augment: Nyx can now cast her abilities from Absorb. When finishing Absorb, gain damage buff based on absorbed damage for 8 seconds.

 

Thanks for tuning in. This is the second revision of this post, some stuff has changed, in case you're confused by comments.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Enchillado

[Naneel]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Enchillado:

When Nyx is targeting an enemy for 3 seconds without attacking them, it convinces them to fight on her side.

Just no, how should this be balanced ? You could make the whole enemy army fight for yourself, this will not work.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Enchillado:

Nyx charges and launches bolts of telekinetic energy into marked enemies, dealing X / X / X / X puncture damage and removing 20 / 40 / 60 / 80% of their armor and shields while briefly stunning them. Mind-controlled enemies (passive buddy, chaos) will prioritize marked enemies in a fight.

Mechanic: Hold to mark enemies. Release to launch bolts. 25 energy is consumed for every 3 bolts.

Giving the Ability damage back is okay, but there is not really a reason to move it to 1st spot. It just needs more projectiles or unlimited effected enemies, so you can spam it. Marking seems unnecessary and clunky.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Enchillado:

Chaos (3)

Additional Mechanic: Nyx becomes glitchy and transparent near enemies under chaos effect, losing enemy attention. She also marks chaosed enemies she runs into. Next use of Psychic Bolts will throw a free bolt into them at the start of charging Psychic Bolts ability.

Design: Instead of terrible looking holograms of Nyx on each enemy's face, let's make something else. All affected enemies have some confusion effects and particles around their heads. Whenever they target/shoot/attack someone, a brief silhouette (like afterimage) of Nyx or her allies appear in a line between confused and the target. This silhouette copies all equipment of the original and plays the same animation the original played at this moment (e. g. running) before vanishing. This repeats.

Becoming glitchy is good, but marking all targets will rob you really fast of energy when casting bolts, so I am not sure if this is really a good idea. A new visual would be nice, but what you suggest sounds like a lot more effects and confusing.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Enchillado:

Absorb (4)

Additional Mechanic: After finishing Absorb, Nyx gains decaying movement speed buff.

What she really needs is a little invuln time after casting, movement speed can't help you if you are dead.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Enchillado:

Psionic Blast (2)

Nyx releases a psionic impulse in a target direction. It absorbs 30 / 40 / 50 / 60% of damage, staggering enemies and spreading Chaos on contact. Next Psionic Blast also deals damage accumulated by the previous one.

Mechanic: Acts as a fast-moving barrier that increases in size while traveling and has low duration. All enemy projectiles and shots that passed through it will deal reduced damage. If it hits an enemy under chaos effect, the chaos effect is copied to enemies hit after them.

Commentary: Chaos spread is obviously a synergy with Chaos but also an indirect optional synergy with Psychic Bolts. It fits her theme, adds survivability and complements Absorb in terms of design appeal.

Balance: Range grows with level of the ability. It has some cast animation, but the barrier appears almost immediately. The damage absorption is affected by Strength.

Design: Mostly transparent radial diffusion effect that Nyx sends out from her head while pressing her fingers against temples. How is that pose not even used with such a warframe? lmao

This sounds like a good idea, personally I would tweak it to substitute Absorb and not Mind Control, as MC is teoretically good but needs some QoL (better AI, better damage enhance system)

[Enchillado]

3 hours ago, Naneel said:

Just no, how should this be balanced ? You could make the whole enemy army fight for yourself, this will not work.

There is a "Balance:" segment of that Passive, you skipped it. And while we're at it, quick jump to that:

3 hours ago, Naneel said:

I would tweak it to substitute Absorb and not Mind Control, as MC is teoretically good but needs some QoL (better AI, better damage enhance system)

New passive is your free Mind Control that is harder to use in some situations and safer+easier to use in other. So what I suggest to substitute here is her current passive.

3 hours ago, Naneel said:

marking all targets will rob you really fast of energy when casting bolts

Maybe I need to state that more directly, but those marks are free. Energy is consumed when you mark enemies with (1) button.

3 hours ago, Naneel said:

a lot more effects and confusing.

Currently, every single enemy affected by Chaos has a model of Nyx strapped onto their faces. My idea not only reduces that but adds more "CHAOS" feel to it while not confusing players at all since afterimages are transparent and colored by Nyx's energy, they also vanish fast. THE KING OF CONFUSION title is still contested by Nekros and Limbo, don't worry.

3 hours ago, Naneel said:

What she really needs is a little invuln time after casting, movement speed can't help you if you are dead.

Maybe she does need that, but I suggest movement speed to compensate a huge loss of her agility because of that clunky ability. I'm not touching the subject of dying too fast. This problem is very common among most warframes and I feel like Nyx does not suffer from it as bad as many other frames.

3 hours ago, Naneel said:

Marking seems unnecessary and clunky.

That is the only way to add more control of it while making Nyx pay for ability's strength so it won't be overpowered. For now. Maybe there are other solutions. I don't see it being clunky when you just hold button for 0.3-0.7 seconds and hit exactly what you want - once per enemy unit. I can't express how I like the underlined part, that would be very enjoyable to use.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Alrighty. I think I might have to poke a few holes in this.

Nyx has a problem of being old enough that the really good things about her kit have all been adapted by other frames in some way or another. Loki got Irradiating Disarm, which is a literal upgrade to Chaos, Revenant got a Mind Control with more clutter and the option to cast it multiple times for the cost of using his 2 instead of the cost of pressing 1 on enemies for full price. Even Absorb has been literally made into a better cast with Mallet.

The only thing that other frames haven't got a better version of, although close to it in the case of Ash and Banshee with Seeking Shuriken and Sonic Fracture, is the new Psychic Bolts. And that's because it's the only ability that has been actually updated recently, and the only ability that can simultaneously break down the defenses of armour or shields of six simultaneous enemies with only 30% Power Strength. That is something she does better than everyone in the room.

What she really needs is an update to her kit that brings back functions that are... if not unique to her anymore... should be done better or differently to how other frames can do them.

Your starting bid is to make her passive a full ability.

Passive:

Spoiler

 

My first instinct is that you're underestimating how long 3 seconds is in Warframe. 3 seconds is literally why Hover is the most counter-logical ability that has been added to a Warframe in a rework so far, because it's how long you have to sit and do nothing at all while enemies are free to attack you in order to activate it.

And all of that staring is then just for an ally that's only yours a matter of seconds, especially if you're on a mission type with high status (like Infested, where she's already a little weaker).

I know you said the numbers are debatable there, but I can't honestly see any numbers you put in that aren't literally OP would actually make this a good function as a passive.

Also, Passives are meant to be flavour, there are only a few out of the 40 warframes that have passives that are even more than utility, a stat boost, or even useful. This is deliberate, it's supposed to be that way because it makes frames with unique Passives more thematic to something.

If you take that into mind, there is a way to improve Nyx's Passive, and it does actually lie in a bit of your time functions, and a bit in the realm of an under-used function in Warframe; Aggro.

Nyx's base passive of a 20% Accuracy debuff to enemies is actually something I would give to a Psychic; they literally walk in the room and make it harder for you to hit them. But why not give that a ramp-up? On an individual timer for each enemy affected they will lose accuracy over time up to 50% debuff and it only takes around 10 seconds. While 3 seconds to stay still and aiming at an enemy without shooting is an eternity, 10 seconds while you're moving and actively casting, debuffing and causing problems is genuinely not all that long. Contextually it's a form of mental corruption, the longer she's with you, the more likely you are to be affected by her.

Add to this the Aggro function. Banshee's Passive is that her weapons do not make noise, this places her Aggro near the lowest level and if the Alarms aren't running and it's not a mission where enemies spawn Alert, they will literally not notice her until she shoots them or walks directly into her line of sight. I would add a similar function to Nyx that simply states that her default state is the lowest Aggro in the mission. Enemies will virtually ignore her if there is any other target in the room to shoot at.

 

The intent here is to make Nyx's Passive almost like a power aura where just walking in the room corrupts enemies and prevents them from seeing or attacking you. Yes, it does sound more like a Rogue, but she's supposed to be a Psychic Space Ninja, having the Ninja play up a little isn't a bad thing.

1. Psychic Bolts.

Spoiler

While your intent here is clear, make it able to debuff more enemies and enemies of your choice, I don't agree with the method.

Ash's marking method was a functional nerf to reduce the effectiveness of an overly spammed ability. It has since been given its own benefits, but using manual charge-up marking is not a better cast than simple press and effect happens.

Here's the rub; I've been playing with Psychic Bolts since the change, and it's genuinely a powerful ability now, as a 1 this would be too powerful already, let alone with multi-marking, it would have to stay a 2 in order to be buffed further.

It's already a 1 handed action for use at any time, it cancels the previous cast automatically now so that it's incredibly quick and easy to use, I genuinely think that this is the current best ability in the kit when taken against what other frames can do proportionally.

A functional buff would be that the ability doesn't actually cancel if recast before the previous targets were killed, so that you can use multiple casts to strip a group if your targeting is good, but I really don't think that's needed.

For enemy debuffing and quick killing, this is as good or in some cases better than Banshee's Sonar or other damage buffing functions.

In short, leave it alone, we need to bring the other abilities up to this level of power and convenience or better.

2. Psionic Blast.

Spoiler

Immediate problem with this one would be Overlaps.

Another would be that even a walking-speed slow barrier when fired at an enemy wouldn't actually absorb very much damage, maybe one shot or two from a couple of them. You wouldn't be able to stack damage into this very easily, and it certainly wouldn't be able to be a 'pass through walls' kind of ability at that either, because you can't absorb damage if it's inside the geometry.

The specific thing you're doing is creating a dedicated overlap in her kit rather than a synergy in her kit.

For example, a synergy would be that Chaos and Psychic Bolts are Primers, and Psionic Blast would be a Detonator, triggering an additional effect if the others were active. You could, if you were going to do that, make this your damage ability, so rather than absorbing damage, rather than dealing progressively more damage with each cast, it becomes adaptive damage that changes based on what it's hitting.

This way you could play about with the enemies using Bolts and Chaos in order to manipulate what damage you deal to what enemies. So as I said the base would be entirely what you're hitting: You deal Corrosive damage if hitting an Armoured Enemy, Magnetic if you're hitting a Shielded enemy and Slash if you're hitting base flesh types (see where I'm going with this?), you deal a certain amount of direct damage in an effect like the Arca Plasmor. However, it deals multiplied damage to enemies under the affects of Chaos, with a guaranteed Status proc of that damage type.

And if you use Bolts to strip off their defenses with Chaos to prime them for bonus damage and status? You have a blast of higher damage that deals Slash to the Flesh types, and guarantees a proc of Bleed to deal more damage over time. Superb!

Unfortunately... I also don't think that Nyx should ever rely on Ability Strength to get by, I don't think that should be the new Meta for her, and so I don't think a direct Damage ability is a good pick for her either.

Damage numbers on abilities almost always cap out. Unless they're based on a multiplier that scales off enemies themselves.

I would genuinely rather see the AI from Wu-Clone become the norm for Mind Control targets rather than an entire new ability on Nyx, I don't think that direct damage suits her, not when it's un-earned or un-charged using her other functions.

3. Chaos.

With the buff to her Passive of making her have (almost) permanent non-Aggro, enemies should rarely if ever actually shoot at her during Chaos, and while your visual changes are okay, I don't think they're needed. In one or two cases I don't think some would even work... The hologram appearing between enemies shooting at each other has no object to spawn on, and creating one each time enemies target each other to do that would be incredibly resource draining for most machines.

Even purely particle objects, like Kuva, have an object to spawn on (if you use the Magus Lockdown Arcane, you can see that Kuva Clouds are actually generated from an asset called a Corrupted Mask, the one that gets placed on regular enemies to make them the Corrupted visually, it's invisible, but it's there and is an additional object that has to be spawned in order for the Kuva to have an anchor). So to be clear if you generated a new object every single time an enemy fired just so that the Hologram effect could spawn at a location that isn't either the enemy firing or the enemy being fired at, this would potato a lot of graphics cards.

4. Absorb.

Spoiler

Now this is where I would actually go to town.

Currently Absorb is a catch-and-release Damage function, but it's immobile and has very low returns for energy investment, and thus low damage output. Recently DE made the change that it can add Weapon damage, though, and this is what I think we can work with.

The main ability, Absorb, should function a little more like the new Wukong version, you are placed into a fixed animation, but can move a little while doing it. It has a mod-able main duration, it dispels for a stun and some damage, but the main effect is the buffs it then grants to Nyx. To aid this, while active, Nyx stops being Evasive and stops being Anti-Aggro, she becomes the most Aggro draw in the room and enemies have pinpoint accuracy on her bubble. This is then useful for the age-old function of sitting on a Defense target and preventing them from being hit. You can also cancel early, just in case, for whatever buffs you've managed to achieve there.

So, instead of a Drain, where your allies can actually damage you to drain your energy faster and you pay a large cost for getting anywhere near large damage, you have a Duration and lower main output damage, but gain large buffs based on your Absorbed damage. Given the balance of how much additive weapon damage you could gain this way, I think it might be best to turn off Allied damage on the ability full-stop.

Damage to all weapons is increased, supplementals on all weapons gain a capped increase too (so for example, up to 50% Status and Crit Chance, maximum), Speed is increased up to a capped amount, and her abilities receive buffs too. This effect is a limited duration, in order to ensure that you can't keep it for too long and have to Absorb regularly to keep the buffs.

Any Mind Control target, new or existing, gains the same damage, speed and supplemental boost you did, your Psychic Bolts now have the same bonus damage and supplementals as your weapons do turning it into a temporary debuff/damage hybrid, and Chaos targets (including existing ones) will also deal more damage to former allies.

For this functional buff of buffing functions (hah, see what I did there?) and costing less energy to achieve its goals, I also think it needs a change to how the Augment works, as currently the Augment is the de-facto way to run this ability.

Assimilate flips the functions, where the main ability is now a way to gain large buffs to you, Assimilate is now the function that you charge up for high damage on the ability itself.

Unlike now, you can move at full speed, enemies still have max aggro on you and still have pinpoint accuracy on you, even if under Chaos. It now only lasts on a Duration, instead of the Drain, and you can still use Weapons while it's active. While active, enemy damage is the only source of scaling, but it scales on a high multiplier. You're literally becoming one of those running bombs from TF2.

Cast, run around to gain as much damage as you can before the end of cast, kill troublesome enemies while invulnerable, then burst for high radial damage (with the option to cancel early if you want) at the end of Duration. The buffs you gain from the main ability are reduced by half as a consequence for the mobility and higher output damage.

Oh, and whether using the main ability or the Augmented ability, all buffs are cancelled when you cast again in order for you to regain them over the course of the ability.

This, I feel, would make Absorb a far more active ability to use. Similar in some ways to Wukong's new Defy, but with a specific goal of making Nyx better at dealing situational damage.

So you don't need to mod her for Strength and damage output, you don't need to make a new ability to deal damage, you mod her for her Absorb. You would want a little Strength on there for the base functions of Mind Control and Psychic Bolts, but to make Nyx a reliable self buffer for dealing damage that can scale up through the missions, you use Absorb as her own self buffing tool.

What do you think?

[Enchillado]

6 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

My first instinct is that you're underestimating how long 3 seconds is in Warframe.

Not really. I was thinking of how to complicate the use of this ability for it to be strategic and occasional. Judging by a regular sortie experience, right while playing, I found myself able to stare at my enemies in a lot of situations and my conclusion was that 2-4 seconds is not overpowered nor painful to use, but certainly not spammy. My first bet was 2 seconds as it is common reload, but I was afraid people might explode with "omg it's op dude". Anyway, people that use classic "3 seconds in Warframe" argument often come up with the worst-case scenario, where you simply could use another tactic and feel great about it, then use thing later. There are a lot of passives that remain unused 90% of your playtime. Keep in mind that those 3 (or maybe not 3) seconds are not going to happen too often, your abilities help your dude to survive. You're also not locked in one place while converting and can cancel whenever you want since it's not even a channel action, and remember that you have tons of CC. Even now, Mind Control is only an optional and unreliable ability that has better alternatives. You can be super-efficient Nyx without using it at all, so why is it there? For fun? That's why I'm moving that little fun and style it provides instead of something that is not fun at all (that 20% reduced accuracy). Want to buff Mind Control so it's extremely strong? Here you go, buddy, we got you covered.

My version of Mind Control offers you a companion potentially with a huge lifespan and you can use your new ability as often as you want while this dude is on your side doing his job. I like this idea mostly because this may be the only underwhelming ability in the game that has some style points and can be moved to a Passive slot with a little adjustment. It makes an interesting adaptation of the legendary ability and opens the whole skill slot, expands Manipulator of Minds theme and is, in fact, pretty logical. You stare at them, hypnotizing, breaking their will.

 

8 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Nyx's base passive of a 20% Accuracy debuff to enemies is actually something I would give to a Psychic; they literally walk in the room and make it harder for you to hit them. But why not give that a ramp-up? On an individual timer for each enemy affected they will lose accuracy over time up to 50% debuff and it only takes around 10 seconds. While 3 seconds to stay still and aiming at an enemy without shooting is an eternity, 10 seconds while you're moving and actively casting, debuffing and causing problems is genuinely not all that long. Contextually it's a form of mental corruption, the longer she's with you, the more likely you are to be affected by her.

Well, her current passive is either useless or a tank tool. What you suggest is to push it to the tank territory while adding a mechanic that makes it completely unreliable for such a squishy frame while any tank with the same passive would have other resources to survive past 10 seconds scaling period and then troll his foes by sheer presence. If you suggest that Nyx should use her CC to survive those 10 seconds, then you also must understand that she'd better continue doing her job which doesn't involve using that passive, certainly being unable to "troll her foes by sheer presence".

8 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Add to this the Aggro function. Banshee's Passive is that her weapons do not make noise, this places her Aggro near the lowest level and if the Alarms aren't running and it's not a mission where enemies spawn Alert, they will literally not notice her until she shoots them or walks directly into her line of sight. I would add a similar function to Nyx that simply states that her default state is the lowest Aggro in the mission. Enemies will virtually ignore her if there is any other target in the room to shoot at.

What you suggest further is to slap Banshee's passive on top of that, if not something straight up stronger. Thinking about it, it does not even work with the accuracy debuff, it overrides it. You can't miss a target that is not a target. It pushes suggested changes into the "overloaded" category and honestly feels overpowered. And yes, lowering the threat level another way around will still work "just like Banshee's passive with her Hush but better" even if explained differently, I would assume. I personally don't like when some existing concepts are reused as an addition to something.

Completely wipe out the threat-level part of this idea, and you got yourself a nice brawler/bruiser passive. Hell, this would even be a better fit for Gauss cuz HE FAST _{(hence evasive)}. Yes, I realize that with a tremendous stretch this design can be explained as mind-affecting tricks, but it makes for a missed opportunity. With such a passive, I would like to see a chance to do something like that instead:

So two missed opportunities. And if this chance grows with time, it sounds cool, as if you learning those fools' patterns.

I've read your post entirely and I like some things about Absorb but seeing how large my reply is, I decided to discuss one particular thing, and then proceed to another. Overall, I'm fine that you disagree with me, and it's not like anyone here suggesting fundamentally crazy things, so it's still interesting to discuss at least.

One more thing: Psionic Blast is not exactly damage oriented. I would use it for the Chaos spread and quick stagger, also an opportunity to react to some bombard and his rocket, for example. It's a subtle all-in-one fun ability. Designwise, this is a child of Absorb which serves a link between Absorb and mind shenanigans.

So what do you think?

[Vanilla_nuka]

On 2019-07-28 at 5:02 AM, Enchillado said:

Hello, reader.

Getting used to receive big reworks if a prime/deluxe skin comes out for a problematic warframe may be a little insolent of me, I know. But I see some fixes for Nyx here and there. She's still outdated though, as sad as it is, and I don't want to be like "MOAR MOAR", but there are things to be done. Seeing Gauss and his VFX actually inspires for thinking about even design improvements.

 

Passive

Her current passive is: Enemies are 20% less accurate when targeting Nyx.

Commentary: As much as I would appreciate its simplicity, it's just no fit for her thematic and role. It sounds like something that would complement agile assassin's or trickster's design (Wukong, Loki, Ash, etc.) and be useful on a tank or bruiser. On a "Manipulator of Minds", it is lazy designwise while being useless as her defensive stats and tools have absolutely no synergy with that.

New passive

When Nyx is targeting an enemy for 3 seconds without attacking them, it convinces them to fight on her side. Limited to one unit.

Commentary: You know what it is. As a button, it's pretty boring. Especially when Revenant has a copy of this ability, overloaded with different tradeoffs and mechanics. I like this idea mostly because it opens one skill slot and eliminates the problem with Revenant comparison, keeping the "Manipulator of Minds" theme. It's also reasonable and removes the animation lock for that function. Using this would be hard at times, but you definitely can work with that while using your stuns, knockdowns, Chaos, Absorb. It might be your last resort if you need to reload your gun or channel something clunky, like an archgun.

Balance: For a button that uses energy, being restricted to only one temp buddy at a time felt bad. For such a passive it would be just what it needs to not be OP. Instead of locking the damage received by temp buddy for entire ability duration, we might need to simply delay it for a few seconds, like 5 at least. Keep in mind that numbers in this post are debatable as hell.

Design: I would love to see my new disposable companion's info on the HUD. While converting them plebs, it would be great to see the progress to not accidentally lose control of your stronger buddy by taking that weakling you feel sorry to shoot at in his stead. A filling ring around the crosshair... Never seen that anywhere, it's brilliant. On a serious note, it should be different so you won't mix it up with bow charge.

 

Psychic Bolts (2)

Current: Nyx launches 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 bolts of telekinetic energy that seek out enemies, removing 20 / 40 / 60 / 80% of the target's armor and shields, slowing Infested enemies by 20 / 40 / 60 / 80% and removing Ancient Infested's auras for 5 / 7 / 9 / 11s.

Commentary: The ability is pretty strong now, it has some use with good Strength and Augment. At times, it feels like it does nothing even if it does something because bolts are slow and you don't always know what they hit. We will move it to the first button and add more control and feedback to it.

New Psychic Bolts (1)

Nyx charges and launches bolts of telekinetic energy into marked enemies, dealing X / X / X / X puncture damage and removing 20 / 40 / 60 / 80% of their armor and shields for 5 / 7 / 9 / 11s while briefly stunning them. Mind-manipulated enemies (passive buddy, chaos) will prioritize marked enemies in a fight.

Mechanic: Hold to mark enemies. Release to launch bolts. 25 energy is consumed for every 3 marks created by this ability. Marks are consumed by bolts while their targets draw the same aggresion from mind-manipulated enemies for the duration of the debuff.

Commentary: While still can be used in a split-second by swiping your crosshair through the enemy group, it offers some control and feeling of feedback.

Balance: Casting against already debuffed or chaosed enemies inflicts stronger stun and adds duration to their debuffs. That stun might help use the new passive.

Augment: Long stun and 400% more damage received from mind-manipulated enemies (passive buddy, chaos).

Design: While marking, bolts will appear floating 'n' ready around Nyx (forming an arc above her head, shoulders), then quickly blast into her targets' heads one by one once the button is released. We will need to add some Puncture and/or Radiation damage since those are projectiles, this is mostly a design choice since we all know how flat ability damage works at levels past 40. Let their trajectory remain random and twitchy, but with more velocity.

 

Chaos (3)

Additional Mechanic: Nyx becomes glitchy and transparent near enemies under chaos effect, losing enemy attention. She also marks chaosed enemies she runs into without consuming extra energy. Next use of Psychic Bolts will throw up to 3 additional bolts into marked enemies at the start of charging.

Design: Instead of terrible looking holograms of Nyx on each enemy's face, let's make something else. All affected enemies have some confusion effects and particles around their heads. Whenever they target/shoot/attack someone, a brief silhouette (like afterimage) of Nyx or her allies appear in a line between confused and the target. This silhouette copies all equipment of the original and plays the same animation the original played at this moment (e. g. running) before vanishing. This repeats.

 

Absorb (4)

Additional Mechanic: After finishing Absorb, Nyx gains decaying movement speed buff.

Commentary: I don't think it needs much change except maybe scaling and knockdown type/distance. However, I almost feel like Chaos should be ultimate (4) and Absorb - (3). The only reason I suggest movement speed buff is because this ability really hurts Nyx's mobility.

 

Psionic Blast (2)

Nyx releases a psionic impulse in a target direction. It absorbs 30 / 40 / 50 / 60% of damage, staggering enemies and spreading Chaos on contact. Next Psionic Blast also deals damage accumulated by the previous one.

Mechanic: Acts as a fast-moving barrier that increases in size while traveling and has low duration. All enemy projectiles and shots that passed through it will deal reduced damage while absorbed damage is accumulated and will be consumed to deal damage to enemies Psionic Blast passes through on the next use. If Psionic Blast hits an enemy under chaos effect, the chaos effect with its duration is copied to enemies hit after them.

Commentary: Chaos spread is obviously a synergy with Chaos but also an indirect optional synergy with Psychic Bolts. It fits her theme, adds survivability and complements Absorb in terms of design appeal.

Balance: Range grows with the level of the ability. It has some cast animation, but the barrier appears almost immediately. The damage absorption is affected by Strength. While spreading Chaos, the duration is not combined but overlapped by bigger value.

Design: Mostly transparent radial diffusion effect that Nyx sends out from her head while pressing her fingers against temples. How is that pose not even used with such a warframe? lmao

 

Wow. I may need to add another version of this to prevent TL;DR scenario. Still, hope some Nyx fans will stumble upon this.

The new passive seems useless in a team enviroment, by the time I "stare at the enemy for 3 seconds", I couldve already killed them, or my teammates will have already killed them. This will suffer from the same problem mind control suffers from, by the time I cast the ability, my team mate will already have killed the target, this happens to me constantly. It will also suffer from, while Im staring at them, there buddies will be shooting me. The passive she has now isnt great, but its better then what she had before

Your basically trying to make psychic bolts what it was before by adding damage, and a hold mechanic that will end up being more clunky then anything, personally I hate hold or charge mechanics.  Psychic bolts right now, is mostly fine, it just needs a better secondary effect in situations where armor can already be stripped. The stun is unnecessary since you can already stun enemies with her 3. You can already aim the psychic bolts, albeit its clunky and doesnt always work properly in laggy games

The new augment for her 2 will be useless for the same reason why mind freak is useless, enemy damage even when increased by 1000% or 2000%, doesnt scale well, and enemies deal anemic damage to each other

Chaos is fine and doesnt need to be changed, the only synergy this really needs is allowing mind controlled enemies to deal significantly more damage to chaos inflicted targets.

Absorb is trash, and needs to either be replaced completely, or have the augment by default. The damage it does is pathetic, and is only ever worth using for the knockdown, and even then, the enemies will be back on there feet by the time you finish coming out of the animation. Absorb is already affected by strength mods, range, and duration mods. it already converts damage into it, into a flat weapon damage buff capped at 400%.Your psionic blast description doesnt change any of the problems with the ability.

I main Nyx and she accounts for most of my 1000 hours of playing

Edited July 29, 2019 by Vanilla_nuka

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, Enchillado said:

I've read your post entirely and I like some things about Absorb but seeing how large my reply is, I decided to discuss one particular thing, and then proceed to another. Overall, I'm fine that you disagree with me, and it's not like anyone here suggesting fundamentally crazy things, so it's still interesting to discuss at least.

Heh, glad that not seeing eye-to-eye isn't instantly responded to with vociferous denial by at least one other person on the Forums this week ^^

So, let's take a look.

1 hour ago, Enchillado said:

Want to buff Mind Control so it's extremely strong?

I literally said that in the paragraphs about Mind control though... I do want to buff Mind Control so it's a stronger ability and doesn't rely on the pokey Enemy AI.

I'm literally just a little lairy of any rework that takes an entire ability and makes it a passive function. The only frame on record for doing that is Limbo, and that was literally only because he had three entire abilities geared around shifting in and out of the Rift, and only one that did anything while you were there. Having his passive do the self-moving part freed up an ability slot for an additional function.

Like I pointed out with Psionic Blast though, is that you're doing the flip side of things; you're putting an ability into the passive, but then introducing an ability that does something her abilities already do, which is Chaos.

That's why I referenced that maybe this could be a damage function, rather than doing just a more concentrated version of Chaos, because the part of the ability that seemed actually to be its own function was the mobile absorb field that did damage as a base with the secondary effect being just that overlap with Chaos.

2 hours ago, Enchillado said:

Well, her current passive is either useless or a tank tool.

I'm not seeing that at all, though. Every wide-area psychic I've seen in gaming is all about the idea that whoever's facing them can't actually do anything effective against them. Rather than a tank, I feel, it's closer to CC.

And yeah, while effectively it's a means of damage mitigation, it's an indirect one. If Nyx isn't careful, if Nyx doesn't position effectively and tries to just run straight at the nearest enemy to disembowel them with an Orokin tuning fork, she's still going to get shot. AoE, Auras, particle-based damage like flame throwers and gas clouds all still exist, so Warframe isn't safe even if you're literally directly invisible. A Loki can still get shot even when enemies are in Irradiating Disarm just by walking in the wrong place, and so would Nyx.

The idea is that the Passive just makes it safer for you if you aren't doing everything all at once. Unlike right now, where the only way to stay alive at higher level literally is to just repeat that Chaos and in some cases just to run Assimilate.

Making Mind Control into her passive would, I feel, remove the little function she has for staying alive outside of direct energy costs.

To flip the argument, so to speak, with your method you're literally suggesting that she only survive with her CC. See where I'm coming from? 

1 hour ago, Enchillado said:

What you suggest further is to slap Banshee's passive on top of that,

And the answer to that is to buff Banshee, I would say. But at the same time, the low-aggro being part of Nyx's kit wouldn't detract from Banshee, because Banshee's passive is the whole 'everything has a silencer on it' and already steps into what her base kit did before this whole passive update messed with things and it should be reworked anyway.

No, maybe I didn't explain it well...

Banshee's passive allows her, in times when enemies are not alerted, to not alert enemies further. She attacks and moves in a state of Low Aggro if the enemies are not already Alert. However, for Banshee, even when enemies are Alert, she still has an advantage, because even alert enemies still can't detect where shots are coming from until more of them die or until she does something to reveal herself like walking directly in front of them.

Nyx, however, would simply be set to default low aggro, she's not supposed to be in the middle of things laughing, as you point out that tanks do, she's supposed to jump in, cast, and get out before the shooting starts back up.

Low Aggro would allow her to limit gaining and then facilitate losing enemy targeting, the Accuracy Debuff would allow her to stay alive while she does it. Up until the obvious point of one-hit-kill damage.

If she attacks anyone? Of course enemies are going to be alert and attack the target, Low Aggro or no, they'll see a Tenno and fire, she's not invisible. But if she runs into a room (or leaps) and is suddenly surrounded by Grineer Marines (I can't ever not hear that in Lotus' voice), then casting Chaos isn't just a good move for the stun, it means that those stunned enemies aren't just going to get back up and re-target her, they're going to retarget the new threats closest to them because Nyx has lower Aggro.

In a thematic way, it's akin to the way mental manipulation would make allies forget their enemy entirely and fight each other, rather than her current version of 'Surprise! Everyone fight everyone, including me if you can catch me! Bring it on!'

I mean, I would say more that her current kit is trying to make her up to be a more tanky frame than she is, because it gives her no extract options. No way, as a master manipulator, to proverbially give a sinister laugh and back away into the shadows.

That's the kind of point I was trying to make with this. Accuracy debuffs do sound like a tanky function, but they aren't, they're a last-ditch survival function for a squishy frame, what should be there for that squishy frame, though, is that enemies should actually lose track of her if she manages to give them something else to think about, like a decoy Mind Controlled enemy, or each other.

Failing all that? Curl up into a ball and psychically absorb all their damage until you come out as She-Hulk.

[Enchillado]

11 hours ago, Vanilla_nuka said:

I couldve already killed them, or my teammates will have already killed them.

Yes, that's the real problem. Except for the first part since this ability is not for killing but for investment in a longer fight. It's not that you can't use it at all, you'll still get it done very often, although the frustration of staring for nothing even once per mission would get to you. It's probably worse than any other ability you might use and lose a target too soon. I might need to think about it.

[Teridax68]

Regarding the passive, why not go for a compromise between her current passive and your version? Mind-controlling enemies is already something Nyx does with her 1 and 3, so she doesn't really need yet another means of doing so, and 3 seconds is a bit too long a duration in regular play. By contrast, something along the lines of "Nyx stuns enemies/forces them to miss while focusing them with her aim" would allow Nyx to avoid damage by targeting the right enemy, and so in a manner that would conform better to her psychic theme. As for the rest, I'm not familiar enough with Nyx to be able to comment too deeply, but I very much like the idea of making Nyx less vulnerable to enemies while Chaos is active, and making her stop damage more actively in exchange for removing the current impediments to her mobility.

[Xepthrichros]

On 2019-07-28 at 5:02 PM, Enchillado said:

Her current passive is: Enemies are 20% less accurate when targeting Nyx.

Commentary: As much as I would appreciate its simplicity, it's just no fit for her thematic and role. It sounds like something that would complement agile assassin's or trickster's design (Wukong, Loki, Ash, etc.) and be useful on a tank or bruiser. On a "Manipulator of Minds", it is lazy designwise while being useless as her defensive stats and tools have absolutely no synergy with that.

Yup. Doesn't matter if 20% of the bullets miss, when all it takes is one of them to one-shot you at high levels. 10 one-shot bullets fly your way. 8 still hit you, enough to kill you 8 times over.

 

Agree with the rest of your suggestions except Absorb. Much like how people keep saying Vauban's kit has no place in a fast-paced game, current Absorb as it works right now has no place either. You literally stop moving completely, disabling all actions, to absorb damage in a small AOE and blast it back in a small pitiful AOE, with a long animation transition between states that makes an already clunky ability even clunkier. Just make the augment, Assimilate, become the default ability, and the new augment enables even faster movement but sacrificing the rate which absorbed damage is stored. Your suggestion to give players a speed boost after deactivating Absorb, is not worth the long animation and transition into and out of the state, and there's far more efficient skills out there that grant superior similar buffs like Volt's speed - which is granted immediately without delay at a press of one button... and his shield grants invulnerability too, as long as its deployed to cover all angles, while letting you shoot out and get your weapon damage boosted.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Xepthrichros

[Vanilla_nuka]

3 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

Yup. Doesn't matter if 20% of the bullets miss, when all it takes is one of them to one-shot you at high levels. 10 one-shot bullets fly your way. 8 still hit you, enough to kill you 8 times over.

 

Agree with the rest of your suggestions except Absorb. Much like how people keep saying Vauban's kit has no place in a fast-paced game, current Absorb as it works right now has no place either. You literally stop moving completely, disabling all actions, to absorb damage in a small AOE and blast it back in a small pitiful AOE, with a long animation transition between states that makes an already clunky ability even clunkier. Just make the augment, Assimilate, become the default ability, and the new augment enables even faster movement but sacrificing the rate which absorbed damage is stored. Your suggestion to give players a speed boost after deactivating Absorb, is not worth the long animation and transition into and out of the state, and there's far more efficient skills out there that grant superior similar buffs like Volt's speed - which is granted immediately without delay at a press of one button... and his shield grants invulnerability too, as long as its deployed to cover all angles, while letting you shoot out and get your weapon damage boosted.

This is pretty much what I have suggested for a long time, either give her a brand new 4, or make it assimilate by default. The new augment would further increase her mobility in absorb, similar to mesa walts. She also needs a few seconds of invulnerability coming out of absorb since the animation is way too long, and the enemies not effected by the AoE will flat out kill you at higher levels. Its annoying that other frames like Nezha get the invul period when his defensive ability gos down, but nyx gets nothing.

Nyxs current passive now isnt great, but honestly I couldnt think of anything in specific that would outright be better. The closest i could think of is give her a psuedo mind haze ability, the one from the rakta dark dagger, as her passive. Where enemies detection range is significantly lower, and theyll be less likely to aggro on her. They could call it Manipulation, or something along those lines

 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Vanilla_nuka

[Enchillado]

9 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Mind-controlling enemies is already something Nyx does with her 1 and 3

Yes, but the idea was to move 1 to Passive in that way so she still has signature Mind Control and gets brand new defensive ability. And it would be, you cold say, 0 and 3 instead of 1 and 3.

9 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

"Nyx stuns enemies/forces them to miss while focusing them with her aim" would allow Nyx to avoid damage by targeting the right enemy, and so in a manner that would conform better to her psychic theme

Your idea sounds just as good logically, I would call it dramatic, or scenic. Stylish. But it's very hard to predict the balance issues of such mechanic. If there is a delay before debuff is infliced - this is super weak. If it's instant - it may be overpowered in some cases while serving no purpose for her problems. In both cases, it's overkill CC since you don't need precise one by one stun with that kit. I wouldn't mind it personally, the only reason I touch her passive is because I wanted to free one button. I'm fine with terrible passives as long as you can have fun with the entire kit and design, and your idea would at least be somewhat interesting compared to what she has now.

[Teridax68]

5 hours ago, Enchillado said:

Yes, but the idea was to move 1 to Passive in that way so she still has signature Mind Control and gets brand new defensive ability. And it would be, you cold say, 0 and 3 instead of 1 and 3.

That is fair, but then again, her current 1 and 3 are fairly similar in function: 1 makes one target fight enemies, and 3 makes every enemy nearby fight each other.

5 hours ago, Enchillado said:

Your idea sounds just as good logically, I would call it dramatic, or scenic. Stylish. But it's very hard to predict the balance issues of such mechanic. If there is a delay before debuff is infliced - this is super weak. If it's instant - it may be overpowered in some cases while serving no purpose for her problems. In both cases, it's overkill CC since you don't need precise one by one stun with that kit. I wouldn't mind it personally, the only reason I touch her passive is because I wanted to free one button. I'm fine with terrible passives as long as you can have fun with the entire kit and design, and your idea would at least be somewhat interesting compared to what she has now.

Ideally, it should be instant, and should be balanced by the fact that single-target CC isn't really especially impressive on its own, at least not compared to many active stuns we have. However, I do think it would have its uses, e.g. when you're aiming at that one Heavy Gunner or Bombard who's about to blow you up, or combining the effect with a precision weapon like a sniper rifle to set up easy headshots or kills. The kit you're proposing does have other tools for Nyx to defend herself, but has no major hard-disabling CC, only effects that intercept enemy damage, turn enemies against each other, or briefly stun them, an added effect that could itself easily be moved to the passive slot.

[Enchillado]

19 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Ideally, it should be instant, and should be balanced by the fact that single-target CC

I don't think this would work without some cooldown or other unintuitive restrictions, then unwanted waste of this passive and loss of reliability as a result. Without any restrictions whatsoever, it would feel weird and out of place, and yes, overpowered, if only your "single-target CC" doesn't mean that only one unit at a time is stunned, but in that case, it would be even weirder, honestly.

I rewrote the original post, still keeping this Mind Control idea with some changes. I devote it to an outcome that's likely to have both Psionic Blast and Mind Control. But it's good that we have some diversity in this topic.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Enchillado

[Teridax68]

1 minute ago, Enchillado said:

Without any restrictions whatsoever, it would feel weird and out of place, and yes, overpowered

How come? Is there any point in the game where stunning a single enemy is overpowered? When there are multiple enemies attacking you from all sides, being able to disable one of them (and just one at a time) isn't going to win the fight for you by itself, nor would it invalidate the other abilities you're giving Nyx. In this respect I also don't see how the ability would be out of place when it's clearly a psychic effect that would complement her kit, particularly when your own proposal is a mind control on a delay, one that in your version can only be reliably achieved with her kit by casting an ability that is itself liable to kill the target you are attempting to control.

[NuclearCoffeePot]

On 2019-07-28 at 5:02 AM, Enchillado said:

When Nyx is targeting a stunned enemy for 1 second without attacking them, she convinces them to fight on her side. Limited to one servant at a time

This seems a little wierd. targeting by aiming is strange and if several stunned enemies are in a group and you try to control the heavy unit you might accidentally get the wrong one. What if Nyx's finisher or stealth kill was replaced by an animation to mind control the target making them draw aggro and fight for you. 

[NuclearCoffeePot]

On 2019-07-28 at 5:02 AM, Enchillado said:

Commentary: Oh boy do we have our favorite sucker here. For the lifespan of this topic, this is the most criticized ability that Nyx has. I've avoided touching it at first since balancing such a thing is a nightmare, but then I realized that I never had any problems with it only because I've only used it for fun. The ability does not do what it supposed to do. But it takes a lot, and we can see that by the major frustration. I'm going to leave this post as it is, for now, because Absorb ideas would take some time to form (not as much as Absorb takes to reach 1/2 power of an ant's fart). There already were some good ideas for that, I could have just absorbed them into this post, but I want to think.

Absorb like other old abilities in the game is clunky in the fast paced environment of the game. While it can be used on top of a defense point to protect it and what not I feel it still deserves changes- perhaps if movement is allowed though only at a running pace- animation change necessary possibly similar to pre operator mode void beam where your hovering in the air- rather then just channeling for bonus dmg- the ability could gain more range for its activation over time and enemy attacks are stored- when the ability ends all enemies within the range will attack only eachother and stored dmg is converted into a dmg multiplier

[Enchillado]

14 hours ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

This seems a little wierd. targeting by aiming is strange and if several stunned enemies are in a group and you try to control the heavy unit you might accidentally get the wrong one.

Heh, how do people use current Mind Control then?

14 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

How come? Is there any point in the game where stunning a single enemy is overpowered?

I still don't get if you want this to affect only one enemy at a time or you're able to swipe your mouse in convulsions, stunning the entire room. I play Ash, I can ult the whole room in 3 seconds and it doesn't even cause a stroke.

14 hours ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

perhaps if movement is allowed though only at a running pace- animation change necessary possibly similar to pre operator mode void beam where your hovering in the air

Yeah, I was thinking in the same direction. The post is updated with my ideas for Absorb.

[Teridax68]

Just now, Enchillado said:

I still don't get if you want this to affect only one enemy at a time or you're able to swipe your mouse in convulsions, stunning the entire room. I play Ash, I can ult the whole room in 3 seconds and it doesn't even cause a stroke.

The intent is to only stun a single enemy at a time, and only while you're focusing them on the cursor. If you were to sweep the mouse around you could technically interrupt everyone you'd aim at, but you'd never stun more than a single unit at any point in time.

[Infirito]

Here's a bunch more ideas on the matter if anyone's interested:

 

[Enchillado]

1 hour ago, Infirito said:

Here's a bunch more ideas on the matter if anyone's interested

Even though the original post in your link was based on what was happening here, it offers changes that are too drastic for Nyx.

Also, spamming this link around without any feedback is a poor tone. If you're referring to some specific reply, you'd have better luck copying its contents instead of linking.

[NuclearCoffeePot]

8 hours ago, Enchillado said:

Heh, how do people use current Mind Control then

Targeting obviously- what i mean is that having to aim at a target for a duration to switch them seems wierd. Why not have it so when stunned you can perform an action in a similar way to performing a finsiher that mind controls the target. If you want mind control for multiple enemies you could have it spread to stunned enemies near the point of the action

[NuclearCoffeePot]

4 hours ago, Enchillado said:

Even though the original post in your link was based on what was happening here, it offers changes that are too drastic for Nyx.

Also, spamming this link around without any feedback is a poor tone. If you're referring to some specific reply, you'd have better luck copying its contents instead of linking.

Everybody has different opinions. Ive talked to plenty of players. Some want qol changes for nyx. Some like you offer changes to some abilities mechanics but not to drastic, others want a complete kit rework- What matters isnt keeping the kit to me. Its keeping the theme and how you want to play nyx- To me thats wide range cc or having mind slaves kill things for you. Thats the essence of what nyx is meant to be. Also if you read most of that page youll know that i agknowledge the fact that the changes are very drastic and make it clear that this is not a final iteration. Its a rough concept that with the help of community feedback i want to flesh out to fit their needs. Thanks to peoples feedback i am in the process of doing just that,

[NuclearCoffeePot]

4 hours ago, Enchillado said:

Also, spamming this link around without any feedback is a poor tone

Its not like he's trying to steal people- By sharing ideas from the community more widely everyone has a chance to improve their ideas and flesh things out- No one concept will have everytrhing everyone wants, a combination of ideas is required

[Zilotz]

On 2019-07-28 at 12:02 PM, Enchillado said:

When Nyx is targeting a stunned enemy for 1 second without attacking them, she convinces them to fight on her side. Limited to one servant at a time.

I would make it up to 5 enemies with replacing(targeting 6th will cancel 1st).

Why? Because we need some distraction in cases when there are nullies and leeches(both can be at same time).

But on the other hand there will be no more augment that boosts damage several times for servant directly.

On 2019-07-28 at 12:02 PM, Enchillado said:

Psionic Blast (1) (new ability) (25 energy) 

Here it's fun... BUT there is some fatal downside - often you are aimed from 4 to 8 directions and having like 0.1 to 1s to react.

I would add to the charge a small field around Nyx (2m base) that will do the same - absorb the damage.

So instead of N======> will be 0=======> with Nyx in the short-living bubble.

On 2019-07-28 at 12:02 PM, Enchillado said:

Psychic Bolts (2) 

I would add bubble popping(aiming at drone at bubble top and then exploding backpack with 3xnully damage) as priority for bolts(as currently no frame pops bubbles directly).

Why? Because at many angles nullies are hard to kill directly and their bubbles come thru walls.

On 2019-07-28 at 12:02 PM, Enchillado said:

Chaos (3)

I would make some realignments in aggro at all.

First class targets - Absorb, Octavia's Mallet, Rhino when gaining Iron Skin(only invulnerable time).

Second class are Saryn and Loki decoys, enemies on Khora's dome, enemies under chaos effect(or similar effects like radiation or Revenant's slaves).

Third - Normal Warframes/Operators without invisibility(having radiation status will put you to second class for status duration).

Fourth - Invisible Warframes that make sounds(shooting non-silenced weapons).

Fifth - Defense / Interception/ Rescue / Defection and on targets around.

How it works - if any target of First class is present all fire gets there. If Second class is present - it gets all fire if there is no first class. And so on.

It's very simple to implement on code level and will be good for playing(as abilities will not draw more fire than they need and will keep players safe if they meet well the conditions).

Also chaos and/or passive will reverse energy drain from any eximuses affected and from magnetic procs from enemies in range of casting even if not affected(including Eidolons,Hyenas, Vey Hek and on), does not include trap doors(Grineer) or magnetized water(PoE).

On 2019-07-28 at 12:02 PM, Enchillado said:

Explosion bypasses obstacles in the environment. Maim does. Maim strong. Absorb be strong too.

I would do additional 10(based on str) ticks of every combined damage in range per second for 4(based on duration) seconds with 100% status chance, also pokes nully bubbles in range.

Why? To make it usable for high-level content. As for high-level mobs their own damage(compared to enemy HP/Armor/Shield scaling) is just tickles it would make a good chunk of damage.

Also after skill ends for any reason(even contacting nully bubble) it releases all damage and gives invulnerability for 5 seconds.