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Has trading for plat gotten worse?

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1 hour ago, .Dracula. said:

The drop in price of prime items isn't because the amount of players it's because of relic system. Back in the day I remember when Ash prime's bp was 100p alone and it was because it could take days to get one to drop because of how rare it was. It was like a 2% drop on rotation C T3 defense or something. Relics are just easier to obtain and have better odds. Rivens also helped crash the market and trade chat is completely flooded with them. Words of advice never buy Rivens or prime sets from people spamming long lists of items. Check their profile and they're almost always MR8 bots all in the same clan which no real player is a part of set up by clans that charge way too much to scam newer players. Anytime you see those super long lists of rivens and prime sets block them. 

Yeah, no. Here's the secret to why your claim is easily dismissed: ain't no bots on console, but we have the same pattern. 

And "rarity" as a concept is something that ceases to apply when large numbers are in motion. If something has a 1% drop rate, but you have 100k players all farming for it at a given time, you can expect to see a thousand of that item being dropped every cycle. That's significantly more than a quarter of a million of that item in a given day, and about 8 million in a given month. (This uses a 5 minute cycle, but we both know that some are shorter and others longer.) 

This is made possible by the sheer number of people playing the game now. 

Since there's no recurring demand, supply rapidly outstrips demand, and prices must fall. 

And, sorry but no. Rivens have nothing to do with the prices of other things in this game. 

30 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

I wanted to sell some duplicate max ranked arcanes i had and i paid few months ago 50-100 and more... Now their worth is 10-20...

I want to play a fkn game i don't wanna play the "little riven reseller" game!

Even on market i have the lowest price and no sells but some troll asking for much less.

They should call this game Riven Frame or War Riven...

You are a funny person and make a good joke. Unless you are being serious, at which point you are a very funny person. 

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if you want to see this in market rules:

1 warframe.market has increased the dynamic offer and demand, by allowing to expose offline players offers to buyers that reduced the prices of prime parts

2 the whole riven system means that theres far less offer for certain thing thus increasing the price accordingly

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Yeah, no. Here's the secret to why your claim is easily dismissed: ain't no bots on console, but we have the same pattern. 

And "rarity" as a concept is something that ceases to apply when large numbers are in motion. If something has a 1% drop rate, but you have 100k players all farming for it at a given time, you can expect to see a thousand of that item being dropped every cycle. That's significantly more than a quarter of a million of that item in a given day, and about 8 million in a given month. (This uses a 5 minute cycle, but we both know that some are shorter and others longer.) 

This is made possible by the sheer number of people playing the game now. 

Since there's no recurring demand, supply rapidly outstrips demand, and prices must fall. 

And, sorry but no. Rivens have nothing to do with the prices of other things in this game. 

You are a funny person and make a good joke. Unless you are being serious, at which point you are a very funny person. 

No bots being on console means literally nothing. I literally just went into trade chat 5 minutes ago to look for them and found 3 of them. All mr 8, all valkyr, all in the same clan. The clan is called OAO Pink Elephant. All the bots sell the sets for like 100 plat more than the sets are worth. Just because you're ignorant to their existence doesn't mean they don't exist. Go be passive aggressive for no reason somewhere else.  More people would rather farm the parts themselves because of how much easier it is. It literally is because the relic system. ALL prime parts dropped in price the day the relic system was released. I know this because I specifically remember trying to sell an ash set which back in the day was worth 250p, but day 1 of the release it dropped to 80.

Edited by .Dracula.

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Primes aren't worth anything because they are way easier to get now.

Even new primes went waaaaay down in pricing..

Best bet is selling maxed gold mods or primed mods.. they've been the same in price as ever.. I'm making a fortune with them 😛 (okay that's overreacting, but, I was able to maintain a decent amount of plat for years now just by selling maxed mods)

You need a hell lot of credits and Endo, though.. index and arbitrations are your best bet.

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Posted (edited)

Personal opinion?

I would love it if there was a seperate subsection for each "breed" of rare item. A section for rare weapon components, one for suits, one for ""standard"" modifiers, and one for Rivens. That way, folks could sell what they need to sell and folks can look for what they need to find without drowning in a sea of excess dross they care little about, just doggy paddle a bit through some.

Thats at least how I feel in the current climate, where almost everything I have for sale at the soul-shattering price of 24 platinum is buried beneath an onslaught of Riven barking, as are my hopes for excess slot acquisition.

Edited by Unus

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I won't lie....I insist on trading for items.... I don't actually like Platinum...

I trade Syndicate Goods for Syndicate Goods...and Prime Sets for Prime Sets. 

So naturally it goes without saying oi haven't gotten a trade all week 😞

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Again if the exact same pattern exists where the bots are and also where there are no bots, then the claim that the bots are "the cause" is invalid. The bots may be a symptom, and perhaps an exacerbating factor, but definitely not the cause. 

Your description of the fact that "things were once very rare and expensive, became more common and not as expensive and this upsets me" tells me that you don't grasp certain basic concepts in economics. You might as well complain that after DE gave away Ash and Nekros, their prices went down. 

I get the impression that you're confused by why you can't get the prices you think that you are entitled to, and this upsets you. So you are looking for things to blame, you have blamed bots that are selling at higher prices, the relic system itself, people who sell rivens, someone who is pointing out the flaws in your logic, and basically everything except for your own lack of understanding about how supply and demand affect prices. 

Try applying a positive filter for the item you are most interested in at the moment. You'll probably find that it's a lot more manageable. 

Good use of the word though. Jetsam might have fit better with the "drowning-sea-doggy paddle" theme, but dross captured the sheer "rubbish" nature better, I figure. 👍

I never implied bots were the cause. Maybe get some reading comprehension before trying to argue something you don't understand. I only brought up the bots to help new players looking to buy prime parts. Not surprised of your pretentiousness, though after reading through your forum profile. Also never did I imply it upset me. I just understand why the price drops happened. You're here to argue and nothing more. Go away. Congratulations on pointing out logically fallacies on arguments I wasn't even making.

Edited by .Dracula.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Again if the exact same pattern exists where the bots are and also where there are no bots, then the claim that the bots are "the cause" is invalid. The bots may be a symptom, and perhaps an exacerbating factor, but definitely not the cause. 

Your description of the fact that "things were once very rare and expensive, became more common and not as expensive and this upsets me" tells me that you don't grasp certain basic concepts in economics. You might as well complain that after DE gave away Ash and Nekros, their prices went down. 

I get the impression that you're confused by why you can't get the prices you think that you are entitled to, and this upsets you. So you are looking for things to blame, you have blamed bots that are selling at higher prices, the relic system itself, people who sell rivens, someone who is pointing out the flaws in your logic, and basically everything except for your own lack of understanding about how supply and demand affect prices. 

Try applying a positive filter for the item you are most interested in at the moment. You'll probably find that it's a lot more manageable. 

Good use of the word though. Jetsam might have fit better with the "drowning-sea-doggy paddle" theme, but dross captured the sheer "rubbish" nature better, I figure. 👍

   Oh, I never buy alas, there simply isn't anything in the game I want that I can't get through fun sweat-and-toil, I'm an extremely cheap salesmen, everything 24 platinum in exchange for "the goods", all to feed my crippleing slot addiction. Couldn't help but think about the folks having trouble in here, as well as the "item-bloat" of tradechat. Had to wedge my two cents in on the matter.

 

The filter is a blessed addition for the modern heckled buyer, muffling the cries of the robots and persistent alike. Trouble just is that salesmen of one niche get steamrolled over by the current ultra-popular fad. I'd like to even the playing field a bit for everyone. A market for each desire, that the members of each market may compete amongst related merchants, not getting buried by completely unrelated items.

 

Finally, oh, uh, thanks, I'm just a sucker for analogies.

 

(Deep Inhale.)

Geezus.

Edited by Unus

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

🤔

☝️

☝️

☝️

You apparently think that it happened because of rivens too. 

As a hint, trying to silence people who disagree with you in a civil manner is unlikely to achieve much. It might work in the short term, if you are in a fascist society and hold the power to impose your will, but hasn't ever really worked out well in the long run. But this isn't really a fascist organization, and you don't hold the power. 😜

Have a fantabulous day, Tenno. Maybe some day you will be able to figure out how it all works. 

There is literally no implication there. I'm just stating that they exist you're making connections that aren't there. Go #*!% yourself Intentionally misinterpret the things I say and calling me a fascist for it. Ego too big to admit that you messed up and misinterpreted me?

Edited by .Dracula.

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8 minutes ago, .Dracula. said:

There is literally no implication there. I'm just stating that exist you're making connections that aren't there. Go #*!% yourself

Sort of like someone who thinks that the price of Primes drops because of rivens and bots? 

Yeah, that other thing's not going to happen either, but like I said, have a fantabulous day. 

13 minutes ago, Unus said:

   Oh, I never buy alas, there simply isn't anything in the game I want that I can't get through fun sweat-and-toil, I'm an extremely cheap salesmen, everything 24 platinum in exchange for "the goods", all to feed my crippleing slot addiction. Couldn't help but think about the folks having trouble in here, as well as the "item-bloat" of tradechat. Had to wedge my two cents in on the matter.

 

The filter is a blessed addition for the modern heckled buyer, muffling the cries of the robots and persistent alike. Trouble just is that salesmen of one niche get steamrolled over by the current ultra-popular fad. I'd like to even the playing field a bit for everyone. A market for each desire, that the members of each market may compete amongst related merchants, not getting buried by completely unrelated items.

 

Finally, oh, uh, thanks, I'm just a sucker for analogies.

 

(Deep Inhale.)

Geezus.

Not so, Tenno. I find that when I want to sell something, turning on a filter for a few minutes let's me guage the current asking and selling prices in trade chat. I've found that they don't always match up with the prices on warframe.market, so having current data helps me to find a fair price. And remember, motivated buyers would probably be doing the same thing on their end, if they're smart. 

So your messages aren't going to be totally lost. 

If all else fails, you can probably wait for Baro's visits and sell some of the low value items off pretty quickly. 2 full trades should put you close to the 24 plat. 

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Just now, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Sort of like someone who thinks that the price of Primes drops because of rivens and bots? 

Yeah, that other thing's not going to happen either, but like I said, have a fantabulous day. 

Not so, Tenno. I find that when I want to sell something, turning on a filter for a few minutes let's me guage the current asking and selling prices in trade chat. I've found that they don't always match up with the prices on warframe.market, so having current data helps me to find a fair price. And remember, motivated buyers would probably be doing the same thing on their end, if they're smart. 

So your messages aren't going to be totally lost. 

If all else fails, you can probably wait for Baro's visits and sell some of the low value items off pretty quickly. 2 full trades should put you close to the 24 plat. 

I think they dropped because of rivens, but not bots. Simply because Rivens are more worth spending plat on than prime parts are because it's become easier to acquire prime parts. You can pretend that I said bots were the cause all you want if it helps you live with yourself.

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24 minutes ago, .Dracula. said:

I think they dropped because of rivens, but not bots. Simply because Rivens are more worth spending plat on than prime parts are because it's become easier to acquire prime parts. You can pretend that I said bots were the cause all you want if it helps you live with yourself.

Oh look, you've come around to being civil again. Isn't it much better than the other way? 

Again understand the concept of supply vs demand. With 100k concurrent players all farming a 1% drop chance item in 5 minute cycles, the expected result is well over a quarter of a million drops in a day. In a month at that rate you'd expect about 4 million to be farmed. Given time supply approaches infinite. 

Most items in this game do not degrade, or require repairs or replacement. Demand diminishes as the number of successful farm runs increases. This was always true, no matter what system was used on the supply side. Add the fact that buyers are highly limited, because they must meet multiple conditions to affect the demand and you'll find that demand is almost always going to be lower than supply. 

Prices must fall in such a system, potentially to zero. Baro is a sink that helps purge some of the excess supply, but he can't increase demand for any given item. 

Rivens are not even a factor in any of that. It's like people who are selling cars, complaining that space shuttles exist and are impacting their sales prices. If Big Al, from the used car emporium started lamenting the effect of shuttles on his car prices, you'd call the nice men in white coats to pay a visit. 

Bots selling, also isn't a factor at all, as I pointed out way back when. 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Oh look, you've come around to being civil again. Isn't it much better than the other way? 

Again understand the concept of supply vs demand. With 100k concurrent players all farming a 1% drop chance item in 5 minute cycles, the expected result is well over a quarter of a million drops in a day. In a month at that rate you'd expect about 4 million to be farmed. Given time supply approaches infinite. 

Most items in this game do not degrade, or require repairs or replacement. Demand diminishes as the number of successful farm runs increases. This was always true, no matter what system was used on the supply side. Add the fact that buyers are highly limited, because they must meet multiple conditions to affect the demand and you'll find that demand is almost always going to be lower than supply. 

Prices must fall in such a system, potentially to zero. Baro is a sink that helps purge some of the excess supply, but he can't increase demand for any given item. 

Rivens are not even a factor in any of that. It's like people who are selling cars, complaining that space shuttles exist and are impacting their sales prices. If Big Al, from the used car emporium started lamenting the effect of shuttles on his car prices, you'd call the nice men in white coats to pay a visit. 

Bots selling, also isn't a factor at all, as I pointed out way back when. 

I disagree and still don't think bots have anything to do with it. Prices don't drop over night when an update comes out as major as the relic system because there are "a lot of players".

Edited by .Dracula.

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2 hours ago, .Dracula. said:

I disagree and still don't think bots have anything to do with it. Prices don't drop over night when an update comes out as major as the relic system because there are "a lot of players".

If 10,000 new coffee shops opened up in your city, what would happen to the price of your morning brew? 

Now try with 100,000.

Then realise that in our game, the vast majority of the people who try for a given reward, who fail to get it, will probably still end up with something that they can try to sell, even if it's not the one thing that they were really hoping for. 

Take the number of people who play in any given day, and multiply the number of fissures they may choose to do, and that's how many new "competitors" have been added in a single day, and also the number of "potential customers" that were just lost from your city. What do you think is going to happen to the prices? 

There can be absolutely no question that that's going to be affected heavily by an increase in the numbers of players. It's extremely basic "supply and demand" at work. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

If 10,000 new coffee shops opened up in your city, what would happen to the price of your morning brew? 

Now try with 100,000.

Then realise that in our game, the vast majority of the people who try for a given reward, who fail to get it, will probably still end up with something that they can try to sell, even if it's not the one thing that they were really hoping for. 

Take the number of people who play in any given day, and multiply the number of fissures they may choose to do, and that's how many new "competitors" have been added in a single day, and also the number of "potential customers" that were just lost from your city. What do you think is going to happen to the prices? 

There can be absolutely no question that that's going to be affected heavily by an increase in the numbers of players. It's extremely basic "supply and demand" at work. 

You've just ignored what I said and said you're own thing. Tell me why prime sets dropped in price more than double their price over night after the release of the relic system. Why did all the sets I farmed cost less than half of what they did in a span of a day when a major overhaul to how prime parts are obtained was released? It's disingenuous to believe that the relic system had no part. The difficulty in acquiring prime items did affect their price. That's why in the old void key system Loki prime sets were worth so much less than Ash/ember/nova sets because Loki parts had higher drop chances and were much easier to get and the same thing still happens. Rare items in relics in axi relics are worth more than rare items in lith relics because of lower drop chance of axi relics.  To be clear, I'm not angry the relic system had dropped the prices of prime items. I think it's a good thing, but what I don't understand is why you're acting like the relic system is completely innocent in the drop of worth of prime items. Also the player base has no affect. If it were true that the amount of players dropped the price of prime sets; prime sets would of dropped each time there was a spike in the player base. A good example is Fortuna. When Fortuna was released there was a big wave of new players and old returning players, but prime parts did not drop in price. They've been stagnated for years. 

Edited by .Dracula.

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1 hour ago, .Dracula. said:

You've just ignored what I said and said you're own thing. Tell me why prime sets dropped in price more than double their price over night after the release of the relic system

No, I responded it. 👇

 

4 hours ago, .Dracula. said:

Prices don't drop over night when an update comes out as major as the relic system because there are "a lot of players".

👇

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

If 10,000 new coffee shops opened up in your city, what would happen to the price of your morning brew? 

Now try with 100,000.

Then realise that in our game, the vast majority of the people who try for a given reward, who fail to get it, will probably still end up with something that they can try to sell, even if it's not the one thing that they were really hoping for. 

Take the number of people who play in any given day, and multiply the number of fissures they may choose to do, and that's how many new "competitors" have been added in a single day, and also the number of "potential customers" that were just lost from your city. What do you think is going to happen to the prices? 

There can be absolutely no question that that's going to be affected heavily by an increase in the numbers of players. It's extremely basic "supply and demand" at work. 

 

1 hour ago, .Dracula. said:

Why did all the sets I farmed cost less than half of what they did in a span of a day when a major overhaul to how prime parts are obtained was released? 

Because at 5 minutes per cycle in a group, a single player farming continuously would unlock ((24*60)/5) = 288 items, the majority of which would be sellable. The more players you have at any given time, the more items they would collectively farm, and the more would be immediately available for sale. If you have 10,000 players collecting rewards at any given time, you will have close to  3 million items available for sale within 24 hours

Recall that for every item farmed either they will keep it (and now not be a potential customer for that item) or attempt to sell it (and now be direct competitors for the remaining customers). Either way, that's bad news for your prices; combined, it explains what you are having difficulty grasping.

Now scale that 10k players at a time up to whatever the concurrent numbers are at any given time to see the effect that player count could have.

More concurrent players = more items, more items = more competition, and more competition = lower prices. Guaranteed

Or look at it from your own example, lith rewards are generally cheaper than axi, why? Because more people can get those at any given time. More player = more items, more items =... You see? Lower prices. Guaranteed. 

Fortuna would have caused a short term bump in both sides of the equation, supply and demand both increased because we got so many new players, and people who just wouldn't have had the items yet, and for a change we were all busy with the new content, busy obtaining items that couldn't be traded. 

As soon as the novelty wore off, we went right back to the grind, and prices continued their slow decline. 

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On 2019-08-02 at 5:40 AM, tzadquiel said:

inished with this. dont @ me bc I am not gonna read or reply.

You don't decide what everyone does or doesn't do.

On 2019-08-02 at 5:40 AM, tzadquiel said:

Frankly, i find it hilarious and amusing at the same time, that your carefully constructed in-game economical wellbeing, based purely on the fact that you can charge higher prices for items, abusing and exploiting people's ignorance, is in shambles now. tough luck and karma, tenno. 

The only way I'm personally affected is by harassment from people like you who want to paint anyone not exploiting the game with 3rd party sites as reprobates.  Even if trade went over completely to auction houses I've been playing long enough that I can easily sell harder to obtain items which will always have value.  That's if I didn't just abuse the auction house itself which I probably would.  The only people you're hurting is new, free players.

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19 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

No, I responded it. 👇

 

👇

 

 

Because at 5 minutes per cycle in a group, a single player farming continuously would unlock ((24*60)/5) = 288 items, the majority of which would be sellable. The more players you have at any given time, the more items they would collectively farm, and the more would be immediately available for sale. If you have 10,000 players collecting rewards at any given time, you will have close to  3 million items available for sale within 24 hours

Recall that for every item farmed either they will keep it (and now not be a potential customer for that item) or attempt to sell it (and now be direct competitors for the remaining customers). Either way, that's bad news for your prices; combined, it explains what you are having difficulty grasping.

Now scale that 10k players at a time up to whatever the concurrent numbers are at any given time to see the effect that player count could have.

More concurrent players = more items, more items = more competition, and more competition = lower prices. Guaranteed

Or look at it from your own example, lith rewards are generally cheaper than axi, why? Because more people can get those at any given time. More player = more items, more items =... You see? Lower prices. Guaranteed. 

Fortuna would have caused a short term bump in both sides of the equation, supply and demand both increased because we got so many new players, and people who just wouldn't have had the items yet, and for a change we were all busy with the new content, busy obtaining items that couldn't be traded. 

As soon as the novelty wore off, we went right back to the grind, and prices continued their slow decline. 

It's been about a year since the release of Fortuna. You think the new players would of affected the prices by now, wouldn't you? Still ignored me. No answer to my experience still? I think we both know why.

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22 minutes ago, .Dracula. said:

It's been about a year since the release of Fortuna. You think the new players would of affected the prices by now, wouldn't you? Still ignored me. No answer to my experience still? I think we both know why.

Gee, it's almost as if we weren't currently chatting in a thread about how prices have gone down over a long term period. If they haven't then you've nothing to talk about, and if they have then your claim is wrong; your choice. Pretty neat, huh? 

 

And yes, I answered your points. Then I quoted it for you, and expanded on it. (With math even.) It's very clearly done in my post. If you're not grasping the whole thing, then I'm afraid that you may never grasp how a 24 or even 12 hour period can make a world of difference. Personally I'm thinking that you're just trying to not get it, because it's really very simple. 

Maybe you should try to watch the real time development of prices over a similar period the next time a new prime weapon is released and see the effect that many players actively farming something has on prices. It's going to fall faster whenever our concurrent player count is higher. 

If you want another, check out what happened to the price of arcanes when nightwave started sharing them out to anyone who wanted one. Pretty sure we had some complaints about it on the forums too if you feel like checking for them. 

 

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