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Frames and weapons you wish would get a nerf


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3 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Combat is Warframe's core gameplay. Mess with that, and you mess with the whole game.

I agree.

That is why nerfing is not essential for game balance or enjoyment. Why change a warframe or weapon when others already enjoy using them?

I am aware there are leechers and Players who can kill faster and more proficient than others on "Public" missions, but if Players have problems with that they should create their own squads or play the game on "Solo" mode, instead of ruining the fun for others.

It is selfish for any Player to want anything "nerfed," just because they play the game poorly or other's out-perform them.

 

Thanks for the sensible conversation.

 

Edited by xV3NOMx
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Just now, xV3NOMx said:

I agree.

That is why nerfing is not essential for game balance or enjoyment. Why change a warframe or weapon when others already enjoy using them?

I am aware there are leechers and Players who can kill faster and more proficient than others on "Public" missions, but if Players have problems with that they should create their own squads or play the game on "Solo" mode, instead of ruining the fun for others.

It is selfish for any Player to want anything "nerfed," just because they play the game poorly or other's out-perform them.

 

Thanks for the sensible conversation.

 

Image result for cherry picking

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59 minutes ago, Sajochi said:

It's not even about that. Perhaps it's not worth getting in a further argument  with someone who thinks pressing a single button to not die is the pinnacle of gaming. 

Case in point, another salty player who lost a pointless easy button. Because it was pointless. 

The sad part is, I am not trying to justify Wukong as a good or bad warframe. In my initial comment to this post, I have Wukong on the list of weapons and warframes that have been nerfed. Then [De]Monkey replied to my comment claiming  "Wukong couldn't out-perform other Players before the nerf / rework, which he was wrong...then you chimed in. 

As I mentioned before, I use Loki Prime as my main warframe, while most other warframes collect dust in my inventory. However, I am against all the nerfing made to weapons and warframes which other Players had enjoyed.

It is salty, when other Players want to ruin the fun for other Players by wanting things nerfed.

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2 hours ago, Cubewano said:

That wasn't really an opinion piece, overall the Wukong rework was a success with a net positive result in usage and one can presume enjoyment,

People can assume or create their own conclusions that Wukong's rework is an success with the recent peak of the warframe's usuage,  however, that analysis is flawed.

It is evident that any Player, my self included,  would test new changes made to the game, especially new weapons and warfames.

[ When the update for the rework of Wukong was released, I had to re-optimize the warframe, since my previous mod build is now obsolete and later tested out his new abilities. Later, Wukong Prime was released, and I farmed the relics, completed fissure runs for parts, then built  and maxed him for Mastery Rank fodder... I haven't used Wukong Prime since.]

I do not discredit that other Players may enjoy using Wukong now than before, but the warframe has little resemblance to the original.

Edited by xV3NOMx
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2 minutes ago, xV3NOMx said:

People can assume or create their own conclusions that Wukong's rework is an success with the recent peak of the warframe's usuage,  however, that analysis is flawed.

It is evident that any Player, my self included,  would test new changes made to the game, especially new weapons and warfames.

[ When the update for the rework of Wukong was released, I had to re-optimize the warframe, since my previous mod build is now obsolete and later tested out his new abilities. Later, Wukong Prime was released, and I farmed the relics, completed fissure runs for parts, then built  and maxed him for Mastery Rank fodder... I haven't used Wukong Prime since.]

I do not discredit that other Players may enjoy using Wukong now than before, but the warframe has little resemblance to the original.

If the metric was from immediately after the rework launched I'd be right with you, but it was a measurement from weeks after the initial rework and spanned to the near end of July. So numbers were still vastly up well past when the experimental rush would occur. It's evident the rework did genuinely succeed despite your assumptions on the effects of nerfs. 
 

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5 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

If the metric was from immediately after the rework launched I'd be right with you, but it was a measurement from weeks after the initial rework and spanned to the near end of July. 
 

I disagree.

The rework was released on June 19th, and Wukong Prime was released on the July 6th, which are almost two weeks apart. Trying to claim the current peak usage of Wukong due to its rework is reaching. 

[ If the developers release a new warframe tomorrow, the focus on Wukong will drop significantly. ] 

 

Nerfing is bad, when it disrupts another Players enjoyment.

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11 minutes ago, xV3NOMx said:

I disagree.

The rework was released on June 19th, and Wukong Prime was released on the July 6th, which are almost two weeks apart. Trying to claim the current peak usage of Wukong due to its rework is reaching. 

[ If the developers release a new warframe tomorrow, the focus on Wukong will drop significantly. ] 

 

Nerfing is bad, when it disrupts another Players enjoyment.

The metrics I was mentioning are specific to base Wukong and did not include Wukong Prime usage, so any boost from people farming or purchasing his prime had no influence on the statistic. 

And the same could be said about not nerfing. Game balance isn't a black and white topic, and not everyone wins from uninhibited power creep either. Feel free to read some of the other responses in this thread if you need a fuller picture of why that may be, and the cons of being unwilling to allow nerfs in the present state of warframe. 

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Limbo. Not because he's particularly strong or broken. He's great for hunting caches and Lua spy mission.

Want him nerfed to reduce the people who play him. His playstyle of "I pressed 4 so now everyone has to play around me." irks me.

I'll be leveling a gun or playing a squishy non-nuker frame, but along comes Limbo throwing his 4 down on a non-sortie mobile defense target. So now I have to lose my advantage of range just to kill enemies before they enter the rift and expose myself to more danger due to now being in shotgun range of most enemies. To top it off more than 50% of the time the Limbo just presses 2 and goes afk only coming back to recast his 4 and 2. On Hydron more often than not they'll also just sit in the rift afk even had two of them in one match before.

Nuker frames do not bother me even if they sorta act the same way. Since you can just be happy you're getting affinity faster with them nuking the map. Plus I personally just take it as a challenge to get as many kills as possible before they get nuked. Limbo just slows / makes getting kills awkward and more often is used on missions his 4 is not needed to the protect the objective. If you want to afk on the defense object and protect it just bring Frost. At least with his snow globe I can stand in it and shoot out of it. Limbo's 4 either makes everyone play like you're corner camping or makes everyone spawn camp cause they don't want to deal with his BS on the point.

 

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13 hours ago, xV3NOMx said:

Then [De]Monkey replied to my comment claiming  "Wukong couldn't out-perform other Players before the nerf / rework, which he was wrong...then you chimed in. 

No, I was very much correct. Wukong couldn't outperform anyone. Anything relevant that could be done well with him could be done even better with another frame.

Remember that argument I presented that you decided to cut in half, quote, and them claim I was contracting myself? I suggest you go back and re-read it, then quote it and provide a counter argument. Here, have a link to it.

(I'll also provide you with a link to your ridiculous response, in which you blatantly quoted half my sentence out of context. Remember that? Pretty stupid, huh.)

Or I would suggest that, if it was actually something you could do, but alas you can't and won't.

28 minutes ago, InfinitusPhoenix said:

Nerf Saryn

Stop bumping with deliberately inflammatory posts.

Edited by DeMonkey
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6 hours ago, Xinoxlx said:

Limbo. Not because he's particularly strong or broken. He's great for hunting caches and Lua spy mission.

Want him nerfed to reduce the people who play him. His playstyle of "I pressed 4 so now everyone has to play around me." irks me.

I'll be leveling a gun or playing a squishy non-nuker frame, but along comes Limbo throwing his 4 down on a non-sortie mobile defense target. So now I have to lose my advantage of range just to kill enemies before they enter the rift and expose myself to more danger due to now being in shotgun range of most enemies. To top it off more than 50% of the time the Limbo just presses 2 and goes afk only coming back to recast his 4 and 2. On Hydron more often than not they'll also just sit in the rift afk even had two of them in one match before.

Nuker frames do not bother me even if they sorta act the same way. Since you can just be happy you're getting affinity faster with them nuking the map. Plus I personally just take it as a challenge to get as many kills as possible before they get nuked. Limbo just slows / makes getting kills awkward and more often is used on missions his 4 is not needed to the protect the objective. If you want to afk on the defense object and protect it just bring Frost. At least with his snow globe I can stand in it and shoot out of it. Limbo's 4 either makes everyone play like you're corner camping or makes everyone spawn camp cause they don't want to deal with his BS on the point.

 

As a Limbo player, I actually see where you're coming from. Though I do feel the 'playstyle' his 2 tends to encourage is on the 'OP' side of the spectrum (he can ignore a lot of non-combat gameplay, but as I've said many times - that's not the core of the game so it's fine')

His 2 is awfully cheap for how powerful it is, and is an excellent example of 'ignoring gameplay'. Everything within his effect just stops. He does need it or similar powers since his role is in how good of a defender he is, but there's better ways of balancing it.

 

I've previously discussed what I'd do with him, but in a Tl;Dr version - give him more stuff that does individual elements of what stasis can (self-preservation, enemy manipulation, point defense) but less powerfully (and critically, not just stopping enemies in their tracks), and introduce a mechanic that rewards brief, infrequent uses of stasis whilst punishing (but still allowing) longer uses if necessary. That should help deal with this problem and encourage Limbo's more interactive playstyles, even adding to them.

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3 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

No, I was very much correct. Wukong couldn't outperform anyone. Anything relevant that could be done well with him could be done even better with another frame.

Remember that argument I presented that you decided to cut in half, quote, and them claim I was contracting myself? I suggest you go back and re-read it, then quote it and provide a counter argument. Here, have a link to it.

Stop bumping with deliberately inflammatory posts.

Let's settle this!

Your first comment: 

"Well, there goes any credibility you may have had. Wukong wasn't outperforming anyone in missions, and has only been made better with the rework."

 

Your second comment:

"Being truly immortal only allows you to outperform other frames at incredibly high levels, and since those levels are completely and utterly irrelevant to any discussions, you have no point."

[ You can't add stipulations after acknowledging Wukong's immortality does allow him to out-perform other warframes, even at high levels. With this mentality, I guess you think it is acceptable to throw away evidence at a crime scene that can prove a person's innocence.] 

Yes, you did contradicted yourself with last response... you were wrong!

 

*Stop trying to make excuses or say otherwise, cupcake! 

HA! HA! HA!

Edited by xV3NOMx
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1 minute ago, xV3NOMx said:

Let's settle this!

Your first comment: 

"Well, there goes any credibility you may have had. Wukong wasn't outperforming anyone in missions, and has only been made better with the rework."

 

Your second comment:

"Being truly immortal only allows you to outperform other frames at incredibly high levels, and since those levels are completely and utterly irrelevant to any discussions, you have no point."

[ You can't add stipulations after acknowledging Wukong's immortality does allow him to out perform other warframes, even at high levels. With this mentality, I guess you think it is acceptable to throw away evidence at a crime scene that can prove a person's innocence.] 

Yes, you did contradicted yourself with last response... you were wrong!

 

*Stop trying to make excuses or say otherwise, cupcake! 

HA! HA! HA!

Are you on drugs or something? That's the only way I can see anyone thinking this line of argumentation makes any sense.

I stand by my statement that Wukong wasn't able of outperforming anyone in missions, in my follow up response to you I state that the thing you believe to be his greatest asset and thus allowed him to outperform other frames, his immortality, only outperformed other frames at incredibly high levels. These levels are utterly irrelevant to any and all discussions as there is nothing that constitutes "content" at these levels. That is not an additional "stipulation", it's just common sense.

As such, the fact that he can outperfom at these levels is a completely moot point. Within the realms of actual content in this game, the only stuff worth discussing, Wukong didn't outperform anyone.

If you want me to express it even more simply than I have done here, you'll have to fetch me your crayons.

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11 hours ago, InfinitusPhoenix said:

If some players can enjoy a game only if it's 100% braindead then they should play mario or destiny games and leave Warframe.

People can play "Warframe" any way they want to. 

  • If Players want to buy everything with Platinum instead of grinding or farming, that is their choice.
  • If Players want to use weapons and warframes that enable them to out-perform other Players, that is their choice. 

There is no right or wrong way to play the game, but calling other Players who use weapons or warframes that enable them to complete missions with little effort, "braindead," is pathetic.

[ Perhaps, you should play other games if you can't tolerate other players on a PVE game. ] 

 

Edited by xV3NOMx
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19 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Are you on drugs or something? 

I suspect you are, since you can't accept you are wrong.

[ All of your comments in reference to this conversation reveals you are in denial. ] 

*There are Rejection hotlines available that can help you with your problem.

 

I wish you best and hope you get the help you need.

Edited by xV3NOMx
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@InfinitePhoenix 

 

Why this forum is full of people crying?

For first, one visit to your profile and is full of comments of disrespect. Calling noob to people that use Saryn. And all related to "nerf saryn".
Quoting your words "For these noob players if a frame doesn't kill everything with a push of a button then this frame sucks."

Let's see who is the noob if you can't undersand this game is based on roles and specific behaviours doing a frame usefull for specific situations. Doing it a cooperative game, what is it.
Let me say you how noob you are if you cant understand that Saryn is the DPS par excellence. The only currently that can be used in high rounds and for every class of enemy. and SHE HAS A PLAYING MECHANIC FOR HIGH ROUNDS THAT IS NOT TO PRESS ONE BUTTON. There you show who is the noob. 

Many of warframes can do what saryn does and kill a whole wave of low level mobs in 1 shoot. Want names? Gara, Banshee, Volt, Mesa, Equinox, Ember, want more? others are usefull for many other situations where Saryn doing S#&$. You dont understand the game and you blame about a warframe. You have not idea what you talk and you criticize without argument. For first give a look to range of skills in warframe and say then that Saryn is best for killing in low mode. When you Have others that can clear a wave faster. See to saryn damage and say that Saryn is best in terms of base damage. You just have 0 idea what you talking.

If you play level 10 missions where a Saryn and many other waframes can clear the wave is not our problem of people who NEED Saryn for some specific high end content. Doing team with other specific warframes that bring us a good and competitive experience.

Stop crying please.

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10 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I wish I was, because then I could chalk your posts up to an overactive imagination on my part.

Alas...

Man, stop this. You're way better than this and is somewhat embarrassing for you to waste time and words on someone who is obviously trying to bait you. Non of you is going to convince the other so just leave it at that.

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1 minute ago, Olphalarepth said:

Man, stop this. You're way better than this and is somewhat embarrassing for you to waste time and words on someone who is obviously trying to bait you.

Eh, you're right. I shall call it a day here, thank you.

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There's frames that are called "overpowered" by people that are hardly used at all and there's "kinda weak" frames which are on the middle range of use, so I don't really think right now there's any deserving of a nerf. Weapons are a mixed bag:

Some weapons, prime and non-prime, have been really up there in increasing the power creep and it does get ridiculous at a certain point where prime weapons, previously top of the line meta, fall into MR fodder just because some random reinforcement raised the bar for everything and for that I'd personally call out the Galatine and Gram prime in respect of the Scindo prime (the Scindo prime, given its short range, should be more powerful in that short range than the broader range Galatine, no? nope, outclassed.. and the Gram prime? It completely shines over poor Galatine without even pretending to give it an edge in at least status chance).

The Tekko are also an example of normal weapon outclassing a prime (Ankyros), but I'd actually think they both need a buff (Ankyros maybe getting an edge on status so the Tekko can remain as "best crit fist weapon".

The Korrudo, for how hard they may be to get, have no excuse in having the healing feature of the Hirudo being just some pneumatic fist thingies and should instead find a calling in some other stats (it also has a lot of slash damage for being COMPLETELY BLUNT). The Hirudo should also be buffed and to keep the top reserved for prime weapons, so should the Kogake.prime.

These are just some things that came up in my mind for the melee section, you've really got to go by cathegory and see what's top, what's bottom and whether or not the cathegory really sees use.

 

(oh, something for warframes came up in my mind: bring back slow Umbra howl. It is a nerf to the blind ability which doesn't really have any problem, but the blind effects just fits better at the end of the howl instead of almost before you hear a sound, plus it's not the end of the world if you get that blind half a second later, with Umbra you will be using your operator more often, anyway so why not just change your panic button from 2 to 5? 5 comes with free blinds and even radial javelins)

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I think DEVs should nerf people that ask for a nerf.

Ask for changes, meta adaptations.. etc of warframes that maybe are stucked on their old mechanics or have not been adapted.. not nerfs. It is not a static game and is based on roles not all warframes are made for the same. They are not champions of league of legends. And it is not a competitive game.

scared bart simpson GIF

Edited by str4dlin
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1 hour ago, xV3NOMx said:

I suspect you are, since you can't accept you are wrong.

[ All of your comments in reference to this conversation reveals you are in denial. ] 

*There are Rejection hotlines available that can help you with your problem.

 

I wish you best and hope you get the help you need.

He isnt wrong though. You just have an extremely hard time understanding what he wrote in the most simple form of english.

Also, if you played Wukong and relied on Defy you werent too good at playing him to begin with. Defy was a pointless tool that serves a much better purpose in its current state along with limited immortality through his passive. It was a wasted ability spot in the old kit, simple as that.

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1 hour ago, str4dlin said:

I think DEVs should nerf people that ask for a nerf.

Ask for changes, meta adaptations.. etc of warframes that maybe are stucked on their old mechanics or have not been adapted.. not nerfs. It is not a static game and is based on roles not all warframes are made for the same. They are not champions of league of legends. And it is not a competitive game.

scared bart simpson GIF

Because people shouldn't be allowed to have opinions no matter how informed if they oppose your view? 

What you're asking for is the homogenization of kit design to the direction of just a pure nuke design, where all frames become functionally the same, and diversity of role and playstyle design goes out the window. That is what it would mean to adapt to our current meta, short and simple. Needless to say there is a list of reasons that direction isn't desirable, from the aforementioned watering down of role diversity, to the harmful effects such a direction would have on co-operative play, the severe balance issues it would present, and so on. Is any of that really worth chasing just to avoid the stigmatized notion of nerfing? What do you think rebalancing things to be a bit more tame and engaging would really do?

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hace 12 minutos, Cubewano dijo:

Because people shouldn't be allowed to have opinions no matter how informed if they oppose your view? 

What you're asking for is the homogenization of kit design to the direction of just a pure nuke design, where all frames become functionally the same, and diversity of role and playstyle design goes out the window. That is what it would mean to adapt to our current meta, short and simple. Needless to say there is a list of reasons that direction isn't desirable, from the aforementioned watering down of role diversity, to the harmful effects such a direction would have on co-operative play, the severe balance issues it would present, and so on. Is any of that really worth chasing just to avoid the stigmatized notion of nerfing? What do you think rebalancing things to be a bit more tame and engaging would really do?

What I say is people say just nerf, nerf, nerf instead of adapt warframes to a cooperative gameplay. If a warframe as DPS, with DPS role, does damage and my Atlas, for example, can't do the same nor close to it is not problem of DPS warframe. Is because Atlas has not spot in the meta-game. Just that. Ask for Atlas changes for being practical or having a role in the meta not nerf other that is made for what he does. 

Or If I say my trinity can't do the damage that Saryn does! I point the weird point of nerfs when this game has not a competitive points and most opinions come from people that does not understand the game at all as cooperative and just compete everywhere they go

And I am who is talking about warframe roles, so dont say I am saying about homogenization because I understand it game as role-based and I enjoy playing eveyone of those

And also I say new content bring "problems" to some warframes stucked in old mechanics. Others adapt perfectly. And it has happened since the time i got in the game .year 2013.

Edited by str4dlin
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