Frames and weapons you wish would get a nerf

[Cubewano]

1 hour ago, Brey223 said:

Everyone thinks saryn is an issue with her damage. You gotta do a lot of work to try and keep her spores active. It’s not just press it once and see the whole room disappear. It’s scaling damage which takes time to ramp and when it get to critical mass it gets removed and damage goes down. Saryn has the same mechanic as Octavia but no one talks about nerfing her, why? Don’t know but she can obliterate an entire map by herself AND be safer than saryn. Saryn is not the issue here and you don’t see saryn much outside of ESO. 

Octavia isn't spoken about as much (or used as much really, everyone still acknowledge octavia's in the most powerful frame scaling wise) because she takes much longer to ramp up and she relies entirely on enemy ai to function as opposed to self controlled Saryn, as far as immediacy of power Saryn is the stronger pick, and the point at which that boon tips over and Octavia strengths really start to shine is rare. That said, both of those frames are busted, so comparing them isn't doing your argument any favors. They both need nerfs. 

[Cubewano]

2 minutes ago, Brey223 said:

This game is a horde shooter looter. For AoE to not do it’s job and get nerfed into non existence would mean you’d see the rise of people only using tank frames. Then everyone would want to turn the tank frames into DPS frames. I think honestly before you start about nerfing damage frames they should be adding in late game content. (Saying late cause there is no end game) bring in challenging dungeons (or strikes for you destiny folk) and raids. Once those are here then we can talk about DPS frames. 

Where did I say it should be nerfed into nonexistance? I just said it needs to be nerfed out of its current state of overwhelming dominance. If you think the only viable way for aoe to work is if it kills everything for a mile, you are deluded, and I would have to ask you what game you've been playing because it aint warframe. And DE have been thinking -and actively trying- to add in late game content, and it all pretty much fails under the presence of our overwhelming aoe dps, or excludes it and then gets complained at for not having more ability accessibility, followed of course about complaints on the lack of difficulty. Our dps design can't be balanced around, self scaling high range room covering dps can't be balanced around, which is why it needs change, otherwise we'll just wind up with a list of late stage content that just excludes them full stop or falls on its back in conflict with it, which is not the way I want us to obtain late game content, by just turning off a portion of our roster/playstyle options. (all this is without inquiring on negative pressence aoe nukage has taken on early game content, especially where co-op is involved, which is equally worthy of attention)

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

2 hours ago, Gabbynaru said:

None. Nerfs should not happen. Make other things stronger instead of ruining currently useful things.

You...man, i wish i could hug you.

[Brey223]

1 minute ago, Cubewano said:

Where did I say it should be nerfed into nonexistance? I just said it needs to be nerfed out of its current state of overwhelming dominance. If you think the only viable way for aoe to work is if it kills everything for a mile, you are deluded, and I would have to ask you what game you've been playing because it aint warframe. And DE have been thinking -and actively trying- to add in late game content, and it all pretty much fails under the presence of our overwhelming aoe dps, or excludes it and then gets complained at for not having more ability accessibility, followed of course about complaints on the lack of difficulty. Our dps design can't be balanced around, self scaling high range room covering dps can't be balanced around, which is why it needs change, otherwise we'll just wind up with a list of late stage content that just excludes them full stop or falls on its back in conflict with it, which is not the way I want us to obtain late game content, by just turning off a portion of our roster/playstyle options. (all this is without inquiring on negative pressence aoe nukage has taken on early game content, especially where co-op is involved, which is equally worthy of attention)

I mainly play nezha and wisp. I know the strengths of AoE frames to keep enemy density down to a manageable level. You definitely feel when you don’t have good AoE frames due to enemies just overrunning you and obliterating your squad. 

[Cubewano]

Just now, Brey223 said:

I mainly play nezha and wisp. I know the strengths of AoE frames to keep enemy density down to a manageable level. You definitely feel when you don’t have good AoE frames due to enemies just overrunning you and obliterating your squad. 

They keep them beyond manageable, they keep them gone entirely. Nukes empty rooms, not thin them, as do really all aoe combat methods. And I have never felt overwhelmed in the absence of a nuke / aoe spam outside ESO, which is the only content really balanced around that style of play. That said I don't think being overrun is a bad feeling, this game struggles year to year to present difficulty, knowing the absence of aoe dominance can allow it that simply is a good sign that challenge of some remote level can still be obtained without redesigning everything. And even on the opposite side, if that is a problem doesn't a bigger problem seem the be that the game is balanced around needing someone to be a hardy carry for content to be handled? I don't think it's a real thing still, the only time you'd need a dps on that level is if you are doing content well above your current area of progression, but if it was, needing it still seems like a bad state of balance. 

[Brey223]

3 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

They keep them beyond manageable, they keep them gone entirely. Nukes empty rooms, not thin them, as do really all aoe combat methods. And I have never felt overwhelmed in the absence of a nuke / aoe spam outside ESO, which is the only content really balanced around that style of play. That said I don't think being overrun is a bad feeling, this game struggles year to year to present difficulty, knowing the absence of aoe dominance can allow it that simply is a good sign that challenge of some remote level can still be obtained without redesigning everything. And even on the opposite side, if that is a problem doesn't a bigger problem seem the be that the game is balanced around needing someone to be a hardy carry for content to be handled? I don't think it's a real thing still, the only time you'd need a dps on that level is if you are doing content well above your current area of progression, but if it was, needing it still seems like a bad state of balance. 

You’re essentially saying there shouldn’t be nuke frames in a horde based game. And saryn really isn’t a “press a button and obliterate the room” she’s more of a slow burn. She has to spore. Spread the spores then clear what she can. However as enemies scale up in endless missions where this would be the only time to complain about DPS frames she takes longer and longer to kill. Also her damage isn’t the issue what you’re seeing with saryn is that she does armor stripping and cuts the enemies health in half. Mesa just needs some tweaks so her pistols are actual pistols and she doesn’t become a turret. However, your nuke frames need to exist if you plan on trying to do any endless runs. Exterminate missions and other non endless mission having the mission cleared quickly is kind of how you want to do this. I don’t want to be in an exterminate for 30 minutes because enemies refuse to die, that’s not how this game is designed. When you’re in an endless mission you tend to want to be there for extended periods of time. Which means the nukes need to be nukes in order to accomplish this. Stop talking about nerfing DPS when the game doesn’t call for it, instead like DE said the raids are coming back but they’re going to be different. Once that happens then and only then should we see about tweaking numbers. 

[EmberStar]

2 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Literally everything, enemies, weapons, mods, warframes, armour and DR, bosses, focus, everything.

A complete rebuild of the game from the ground up, please and thank you.

Because what I most want from Warframe, is for them to rebuild it into a game that's totally different than Warframe.  (sarcasm)  There are definitely mechanics that I'd like to see them fix (such as basically infinite armor and HP scaling on enemies) and it would be nice if every newer boss didn't have some new variation of "Immune to all space ninja powers in the space ninja game."  But I don't know how they could fix it without turning Warframe into something else.  Although if they were going to consider that, I think the design team should be required to beat something like Monster Hunter.  At least twice, and the first time they have to do it solo and defeat each monster type with each class of weapon.  Just as an example of how to do boss fights without arbitrarily removing basically every tool from the players.

[SneakyErvin]

IMO most of the absurd range should get nerfed. Tone down the whole map wipe thing and make the game a bit more action packed. 

[White_Matter]

Start out with Saryn and Volt. They can basically cheese any content with 0 difficulty by spamming easy to spam abilities. Especially volt with his ultimate spam. It is disgusting. 

Spin to win should be nerfed as well. I still see people with secura lecta, atterax or polearms just spinning around with speed builds. That is also unbearable to play with.

 

I think any large AOE ability(and weapon) that allows the players to cheese the content should be nerfed or just removed. 

 

 

[Cubewano]

18 minutes ago, Brey223 said:

You’re essentially saying there shouldn’t be nuke frames in a horde based game. And saryn really isn’t a “press a button and obliterate the room” she’s more of a slow burn. She has to spore. Spread the spores then clear what she can. However as enemies scale up in endless missions where this would be the only time to complain about DPS frames she takes longer and longer to kill. Also her damage isn’t the issue what you’re seeing with saryn is that she does armor stripping and cuts the enemies health in half. Mesa just needs some tweaks so her pistols are actual pistols and she doesn’t become a turret. However, your nuke frames need to exist if you plan on trying to do any endless runs. Exterminate missions and other non endless mission having the mission cleared quickly is kind of how you want to do this. I don’t want to be in an exterminate for 30 minutes because enemies refuse to die, that’s not how this game is designed. When you’re in an endless mission you tend to want to be there for extended periods of time. Which means the nukes need to be nukes in order to accomplish this. Stop talking about nerfing DPS when the game doesn’t call for it, instead like DE said the raids are coming back but they’re going to be different. Once that happens then and only then should we see about tweaking numbers. 

I'm saying there shouldn't be low cost high range high damage instant room clearing in tools in Warframe. And I've seen endless, I've done endless, it existed before this level of aoe dominance, and they did nothing to improve the matter or make it more involved; not that any game should be basing its entire balance around people who think they need to be dominating enemies with quadruple levels or playing games for an uninterrupted five hours anywho. Nukes are not necesarry for any content in the game, never have been, and they provided no improved gameplay experience for the players, while taking away from a co-operative experience, making game balance impossible to obtain, and turning a good deal of play into more or less brainless tedium, nerfing them is entirely called for. This isn't a matter just for late game play, but for all matters of play, casual and new players deserve just a good an experience as the endgame meta player, it shouldn't be an either or situation. 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

Just now, Cubewano said:

I'm saying there shouldn't be low cost high range high damage instant room clearing in tools in Warframe. And I've seen endless, I've done endless, it existed before this level of aoe dominance, and they did nothing to improve the matter or make it more involved; not that any game should be basing its entire balance around people who think they need to be dominating enemies with quadruple levels or playing games for an uninterrupted five hours anywho. Nukes are not necesarry for any content in the game, never have been, and they provided no improved gameplay experience for the players, while taking away from a co-operative experience, making game balance impossible to obtain, and turning a good deal of play into more or less brainless tedium, nerfing them is entirely called for. This isn't a matter just for late game play, but for all matters of play, casual and new players deserve just a good an experience as the endgame meta player, it shouldn't be an either or situation. 

Warframe doesnt need "difficulty" just for the sake of being difficult. If you dont want nuke frames dont use them. You dont get matched with effective nukes that often and even if you did recruiting chat exists.

 

I wish people would stop asking DE to take the cheeseburger out of my hands and turn it into something else because they decided THEY didnt like what they ordered.

[Brey223]

2 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

I'm saying there shouldn't be low cost high range high damage instant room clearing in tools in Warframe. And I've seen endless, I've done endless, it existed before this level of aoe dominance, and they did nothing to improve the matter or make it more involved; not that any game should be basing its entire balance around people who think they need to be dominating enemies with quadruple levels or playing games for an uninterrupted five hours anywho. Nukes are not necesarry for any content in the game, never have been, and they provided no improved gameplay experience for the players, while taking away from a co-operative experience, making game balance impossible to obtain, and turning a good deal of play into more or less brainless tedium, nerfing them is entirely called for. This isn't a matter just for late game play, but for all matters of play, casual and new players deserve just a good an experience as the endgame meta player, it shouldn't be an either or situation. 

It’s not an either or situation. Is there power creep? Yes

Is this game a power fantasy game? Yes it is

should there be challenging content? Yes

Do they have that challenging content? No they removed it due to poor implementation. 

This game is not like destiny or COD. It’s very much a power fantasy game like diablo. “Let’s nerf all the damage” isn’t a way of thinking about it. This game is about getting a build together and feeling strong with it. You can play support, tank and DPS frames and feel powerful. The CC frames are in a rough part because there’s no mode (ie raids, dungeons/strikes) where CC would be useful. Everyone goes for the kill instead of temporarily stopping someone from shooting you. They would really have to redesign the game if you want to have to go through the game kicking and screaming in every mission. 

[Cubewano]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Warframe doesnt need "difficulty" just for the sake of being difficult. If you dont want nuke frames dont use them. You dont get matched with effective nukes that often and even if you did recruiting chat exists.

 

I wish people would stop asking DE to take the cheeseburger out of my hands and turn it into something else because they decided THEY didnt like what they ordered.

It doesn't, but engaging play is more debatable and necessitates some level of difficulty to create that kind of mental involvement. As for just toggling off nukes, that isn't a real option now is it? I can personally not use them sure, but I cannot remove them from matchmaking, I cannot remove the balance decisions made directly in relation to them, their balance doesn't exist in a vacuum that you only opt into and otherwise goes ignored and uninvolved with the rest of the games development. And "effective" nukes are everywhere, it doesn't require much to be effective with them, according to Rebecca out of top five most used frames in the game, three of them are nukes. 

So yeah, not sure this burger metaphor fits the situation. It isn't just your burger being affected. 

[White_Matter]

Oh forgot to mention ignis wraith.

 

[Viges]

Game needs a serious game mechanics overhaul: damage types, armor, scaling, weapons, mods, rivens, warframes abilities etc etc. Random nerfs will only make people pissed. Not gonna happen though (looking at you melee 3.OMEGALUL). So just waiting and hoping for another game

[Melanholic7]

i hate any nerfs. Cause they can ruin players gameplay. Make other thngs stronger if u need. Why nerf?

[Cubewano]

5 minutes ago, Brey223 said:

It’s not an either or situation. Is there power creep? Yes

Is this game a power fantasy game? Yes it is

should there be challenging content? Yes

Do they have that challenging content? No they removed it due to poor implementation. 

This game is not like destiny or COD. It’s very much a power fantasy game like diablo. “Let’s nerf all the damage” isn’t a way of thinking about it. This game is about getting a build together and feeling strong with it. You can play support, tank and DPS frames and feel powerful. The CC frames are in a rough part because there’s no mode (ie raids, dungeons/strikes) where CC would be useful. Everyone goes for the kill instead of temporarily stopping someone from shooting you. They would really have to redesign the game if you want to have to go through the game kicking and screaming in every mission. 

I mean it sort of is, at least to the scale of power aoes have right now. you aren't creating difficulty under the pressence of high range high damage easy use instant map destruction we have, not late game, and most definitely not for early play should you run into such tools. I'm also not sure what relevance being a power fantasy has to do with game balance, many games are power fantasies, warframe before all this power creep was still a power fantasy, you don't need combat to be brainless and enemies to be meaningless to feel powerful in a game, in fact quite the opposite. Making combat so uninvolved and low effort can make your achievements feel less impressive, and less powerful, as it winds up feelings like you haven't actually done any actual feats except on paper. This direction isn't necessary for the games power fantasy vibes, or even necessarily helpful. 

[Brey223]

1 minute ago, Cubewano said:

I mean it sort of is, at least to the scale of power aoes have right now. you aren't creating difficulty under the pressence of high range high damage easy use instant map destruction we have, not late game, and most definitely not for early play should you run into such tools. I'm also not sure what relevance being a power fantasy has to do with game balance, many games are power fantasies, warframe before all this power creep was still a power fantasy, you don't need combat to be brainless and enemies to be meaningless to feel powerful in a game, in fact quite the opposite. Making combat so uninvolved and low effort can make your achievements feel less impressive, and less powerful, as it winds up feelings like you haven't actually done any actual feats except on paper. This direction isn't necessary for the games power fantasy vibes, or even necessarily helpful. 

For damage to get taken down a notch you’re also gonna have to rework enemy armor, scaling, damage reduction, enemy synergies to make them manageable. If you just blanket nerf damage then you’re going to have the game be hard arbitrarily. They honestly just need to have content that’s designed from the ground up to be difficult. Arbitration’s is a good example cause enemies start off at a higher level and scale to be very, very difficult to manage even with that 300% damage BONUS on warframes and weapons. The point still stands that they need an actual “end game” before we start talking blanket nerds for everything. 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

12 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

It doesn't, but engaging play is more debatable and necessitates some level of difficulty to create that kind of mental involvement. As for just toggling off nukes, that isn't a real option now is it? I can personally not use them sure, but I cannot remove them from matchmaking, I cannot remove the balance decisions made directly in relation to them, their balance doesn't exist in a vacuum that you only opt into and otherwise goes ignored and uninvolved with the rest of the games development. And "effective" nukes are everywhere, it doesn't require much to be effective with them, according to Rebecca out of top five most used frames in the game, three of them are nukes. 

So yeah, not sure this burger metaphor fits the situation. It isn't just your burger being affected. 

I'm sorry you failed to understand the metaphor. I'll try to explain it again. "Warframe" is the "burger".

And I feel like there is a very vocal minority that thinks warframe should be fundamentally different. In other words, that warframe shouldnt be a "burger" but it should be else. I disagree and am perfectly happy with my "burger". It might not be perfect but I dont expect it to me. It's a burger.

And I feel like the typical argument for turning warframe into something different typically relies on the supposition that if warframe is more challenging, it will be more fun. I dont think that's necessarily true. There are people who like the fact that their grind for mods/kuva/arcanes/endo/credits/forma/affinity/focus rewards them with more power. There are people that like the feeling of being "overpowered".

I used the term "effective nuke" because not every volt or saryn or whatever that I see, is actually able to nuke the map to the point where I would say "yup this map is getting nuked". I don't know if it's a lack of skill, lack of proper loadouts or what. But still.

Even on hydron getting matched with nukes is the exception and not the norm by a large margin. If it rustles your jimmies so much yes, it is avoidable. You can play with friends/clanmates/alliance mates or find people in recruiting chat or play solo. Its not like you have no choice but to be in game after game with thermonuclear saryns.

 

 

[DrivaMain]

Warframe players despise nerfs because they are too spoiled with BiG DaMAgE NuMbErS. I would rather they buff the weak weapons to make them on par with the meta ones instead of alienating the huge part of the playerbase with the nerfs. 

I mean look at destiny, when Bungie announces a full balance overhaul some group of players even threatened to quit the game.

[Brey223]

2 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Warframe players despise nerfs because they are too spoiled with BiG DaMAgE NuMbErS. I would rather they buff the weak weapons to make them on par with the meta ones instead of alienating the huge part of the playerbase with the nerfs. 

I mean look at destiny, when Bungie announces a full balance overhaul some group of players even threatened to quit the game.

I actually quit destiny because of them continuously nerfing stuff that I liked and making them useless. 

[Cubewano]

3 minutes ago, Brey223 said:

For damage to get taken down a notch you’re also gonna have to rework enemy armor, scaling, damage reduction, enemy synergies to make them manageable. If you just blanket nerf damage then you’re going to have the game be hard arbitrarily. They honestly just need to have content that’s designed from the ground up to be difficult. Arbitration’s is a good example cause enemies start off at a higher level and scale to be very, very difficult to manage even with that 300% damage BONUS on warframes and weapons. The point still stands that they need an actual “end game” before we start talking blanket nerds for everything. 

Based on? Enemies are wet paper to us currently, what makes you think they'd somehow become immense gamebreaking threats to us because we don't outscale them as hard? Half the problem is enemies never got the keep up with our scaling, nerfing them would be counter to the whole process. And making specific games modes that are balanced won't fix the balance issues covering the rest of the game. And some would say arbitrations are a bad example, with heavily ability nullification reliance, and unpleasantly long rotations, that force you into rather limited viable picks for involvement, all as a result of having to counter our current power capacity. 

[DeMonkey]

1 hour ago, EmberStar said:

Because what I most want from Warframe, is for them to rebuild it into a game that's totally different than Warframe.  (sarcasm)

That's what I said, congrats on following it so well.

Gold medal for you.

[Brey223]

1 minute ago, Cubewano said:

Based on? Enemies are wet paper to us currently, what makes you think they'd somehow become immense gamebreaking threats to us because we don't outscale them as hard? Half the problem is enemies never got the keep up with our scaling, nerfing them would be counter to the whole process. And making specific games modes that are balanced won't fix the balance issues covering the rest of the game. And some would say arbitrations are a bad example, with heavily ability nullification reliance, and unpleasantly long rotations, that force you into rather limited viable picks for involvement, all as a result of having to counter our current power capacity. 

As you go through completing the story quests you’re constantly faced with challenging enemies and constantly juggling your health and ammo, gauging enemies and so on. As you get better gear and more frames, weapons etc it’s only natural that you get to the point that the content you already went through is easier. Instead of butchering damage they need to create content for the players that have already gone through that content. 

[Tenno76856]

As some have mentioned, ,frames which can nuke a map ie ones which outright kill most of enemy ought to have there power reduced . why?. So others in a group have chance to actually kill stuff. Its all well and fine to get xp and drops benefits from a nuking, but doesnt it get boring not doing anything in mission ?. 

People mention eso/so but also seen a good number in Hydron and also Helene (i see saryn much more than mesa or nova.... Probably tells you a lot...)