Archwings

[(PSN)piroburst1]

Please do not add a cool down to the blink ability.  The reason stated for any change being made to itzal was because it was the most used archwing and left the others under utilized.  This is a false concern.  Railjack will have different objectives and game modes.  For defense missions the Amesha and odonata will be king.  For any mission type that requires the player to defend an area will have very little if any Itzal use.  Itzal is used right now because we need to get to the eidolons faster, to the orb mother faster, to the exploiter faster.  However with the defense aspect in space I can guarantee the use of the other archwings will eclipse itzal's ability to cover distance.  I just do not want a great ability to be taken away, especially since we are going to be getting more reason to be in our archwings more often. 

[Drasiel]

They havent said anything about a cooldown. All archwings will get blink and it will be on forward dodge. Itzal will get a new ability. That's the most current information from the last devstream. 

[selig_fay]

The only thing they can do badly is add a blink instead of a front dodge. And they mentioned it...

If you think that the archwing will be playing in the Empyrean - you're wrong. The Empyrean - this mode is about the ships and archwing - it's just a mode of the swimmer. So you'll be putting on your modular wings because they're pretty, the rest of the archwings will be the trash collectors on your railjack.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, zhellon said:

the rest of the archwings will be the trash collectors on your railjack

Eh, I don't know. Unless they give the Modulars something more specialised and therefore more powerful in their abilities than the base ones, it's not going to be like the Modular Weapons.

Think about it, modular Moas came around, right? And yet the most used Sentinel is still Carrier because of its Ammo Case.

Now, don't get me wrong, if the Itzal Blink is now universal, sure, people will drop the Itzal in most cases, but I just think that we're going to see those players jump back to ones like the Elytron and Amesha, specifically the Amesha because of that awesome 'I can't die' ball it lays down.

Unless Modular archwing abilities contain something stronger than the Elytron's Thumper and Amesha's Benevolent Decoy in just... making you not die and the enemy die instead... then the Modular are just going to be side-grades.

They're just going to be different choices, like picking a different Warframe.

[selig_fay]

il y a 43 minutes, Birdframe_Prime a dit :

Elytron's Thumper

I prefer bloomer + warhead in melee. But if they don't at least make normal abilities, then people won't collect them. (only if pump in rank). So the ability I'm less sure. However, there is a chance that they just bury the archwing like the combat system and just remove all abilities...

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, zhellon said:

However, there is a chance that they just bury the archwing like the combat system and just remove all abilities...

I'm actually positive about the Archwing stuff. DESteve has made some really serious statements about how much he wants to improve Archwing and integrate it with what we're doing.

I think the new modular Archwings are going to be a lot like the Moa companions, where you mix-and-match parts for the stats. But, unlike the Moas, the abilities are going to be linked to the core parts as well.

Spoiler

 

The way I think it's going to happen is that you'll have two core abilities to the main body of the Archwing, and an ability linked to the engines then an ability linked to whatever the third part is going to be. For example, your core abilities may be to do with damage, team support or some specifically defined role that the core gives you, your engines will give you an AoE function (like Core Vent or similar) that can be offensive or defensive, while your third part, call it the harness, will give you a utility function.

Much like the original Warframes, where you could slot their abilities, the Core will have two abilities that work together, and the other two parts will have abilities that are useful alone, there may be bonuses or interactions for slotting all three parts that match, or certain combos will be more Meta than others, but they can balance that against the base stats that the parts give too.

Then again...

Off the top of my head, they could be making them have the Empyrean modding style instead, where you pick up abilities for the Modular Archwings from playing Empyrean content, the Wings have a limited amount of Power they can output, and so you can basically rate Abilities based on their Power Drain and activate any 4 together that don't exceed the power draw. Or, still off-the-top-of-my-head, you could have a mix of eight or so actual abilities and assigning them to slot 1-4 would define how much power you give them. An AoE blast ability, for example, if equipped to slot 1 would be low damage and not very good range, but create a stun. Whereas if equipped to slot 4 would stun, but also do a lot more damage over a larger base radius. A defense cast would end up being only the Odonata's shield on 1, but be an Aura of direct damage reduction on 4. And so on.

 

But as for the actual integration, I really don't doubt that DE wants us to be able to use Archwings during Empyrean content freely. As my old Clan Leader pointed out when Archwings were first released, we should be able to treat it like an air or sea battle, we have a heavy ship that's capable of doing the most damage, a specialist that can support in some way, and a couple of main dog-fighters that can react to other threats.

So it may be that a viable tactic is to let two people crew the Railjack, one pilot and one operator for changing skills and operating the main gun if ships need to be taken down, while two others jump out into Archwings instead of operating the turrets and fly support in the same way the demonstration team GTA'd that grineer ship to help fight. I think having your Railjack protected by a Benevolent Decoy while it charges the main gun would be superb, or likewise a ship dodging through the asteroids from ship fire could be supported by a cloaked Itzal that can dodge up above the debris then target smaller fighters and Ram-Sleds before they can flank the Railjack.

If, and I do say 'if', Steve is thinking along the same lines, then we could see some fantastic Archwing content to go along with the Railjack content.

[selig_fay]

il y a 3 minutes, Birdframe_Prime a dit :

If, and I do say 'if', Steve is thinking along the same lines, then we could see some fantastic Archwing content to go along with the Railjack content.

However, they showed nothing but flights to the enemy ship. I have very big suspicions that all sorts of actions in archwing will relate to the style in which we will just get from one point to another and very rarely shoot. I'm not comparing it to swimming for nothing. The Empyrean is the ships. Ships are more interesting to capture in the form of boarding. They said that we could capture ships with archwing, but they also said that we should repair them later, while boarding would not have such a disadvantage.Personally, I come to the conclusion that warframes will remain a more important part of the empires, while archwing will have only a small part of the missions in which they are really important. 

They're certainly trying to work on archiving now, and it shows, but real problems like big hitboxes and full stop when hitting a wall, even though you didn't touch it. Well, it would be possible to add a couple of chips, like running on objects, because it seems that it seems logical that we can use our feet in combination with the wings. But I doubt we'll get any changes to the archwing combat system in the Empyrean at all, other than some visual changes we're already seeing. Yes, archwing is just part of the empires, but archwing doesn't have normal missions at all and it's frustrating that archwing in the empires isn't put in priority over warframe.

[Birdframe_Prime]

6 minutes ago, zhellon said:

However, they showed nothing but flights to the enemy ship.

Yes, because they were on a semi-scripted preview to show off Empyrean and the new changes to Archwing (aside from the 'everyone has Blink now') haven't been made. We haven't seen the full extent of Empyrean, and we had very specific functions necessary for the Archwings in the demonstration that needed to be completed.

I'm not suspicious in the slightest because of the way DE tends to make a big deal out of some aspects and leave others to the side on their preview content. It took until just last week before they even told us, specifically, what that dangling tentacle-blade that they stabbed the Lich with, and hacked a ship with, even is.

So the reason we didn't see any of the more specific Archwing changes, I would say, is just down to those changes not having been made or even finalised yet, and we only saw those small bits so that it wasn't apparent that they were still working on them or changing them. Screening off the unfinished parts with the big, sparkly, distracting parts so we don't see the missing functions.

[(PSN)piroburst1]

On 2019-07-30 at 10:36 PM, Drasiel said:

They havent said anything about a cooldown. All archwings will get blink and it will be on forward dodge. Itzal will get a new ability. That's the most current information from the last devstream. 

Dodge mechanics have an inherent cooldown

[selig_fay]

il y a 20 minutes, (PS4)piroburst1 a dit :

Dodge mechanics have an inherent cooldown

They don't have cooldown, they have runtime at which you can't perform any actions.

[(PSN)piroburst1]

24 minutes ago, zhellon said:

They don't have cooldown, they have runtime at which you can't perform any actions.

That's why I said inherent (meaning any delay or lag time in between use)

[selig_fay]

il y a 1 minute, (PS4)piroburst1 a dit :

That's why I said inherent (meaning any delay or lag time in between use)

Blink is instantaneous. But I hope they won't touch dodge.

[Drasiel]

5 hours ago, (PS4)piroburst1 said:

Dodge mechanics have an inherent cooldown

if by cooldown you mean animation that you have to wait to finish then yes.