I don't even play Ember, and I pity her..

[Marinara19]

I don't usually come to forums cause I know that this is just a place where complaints go unnoticed. However; I never felt so gypped out of my resources on a warframe until I made Ember. She is legit, absolute false advertisement. "A frame with offensive fire based skills" without disclaimer that they do less damage than frames like Nidus, Khora, and Gaara. I don't want to add to the whine, or complain about past handling of her, I just wish she was more cohesive.

So I just wanted to throw some suggestions out there to consider for a rework.

1st, I think her passive Ignition is ridiculous, instead of making her burn herself to get energy back, maybe she should just get energy/Ability strength for igniting targets within a certain range (10-15m) kinda like a Backdraft?

2nd, Her Fireball in my vision should be her bread and butter skill, not her 4, I mean she is supposed to be some ranged offensive squishy frame? But is easily out done by every other frame because her primary skill only effected by a single mod. In light of how Gaara, Khora, Atlas can scale off melee weapon mods, I think Ember's fireball damage should scale off her primary weapon's mods. To me her weapon should be something she should fall back on, in light of running out of energy. Not the only thing she can do damage with, for an 'offensive' frame. Also I think the alternative/charged fire should change based on what weapon she has equipped. For Example:

Rifle: Shoots Fireballs in an automatic fashion for a slowly decreasing energy cost.\

Shotgun: Shoot a High Velocity Fireball that explodes into fractional parts when coming into contact with a surface or enemy. (Like Zarr)

Rifle: Shoots a concentrated beam of heat energy that explodes on contact with an enemy (Like Pencha Scaffold)

Bow: Bounces for up to 4 targets and explodes on the last one.

Launcher: Lobs a chunk of flammable material that explodes when enemies reach a certain range.

Spearguns: Shoots a particle that sticks to an enemy or surface, rapidly pulls in nearby enemies, and explodes. (Javlok)

Fireball Frenzy, could be changed to refund energy cost of Fireball, if it manages to kill an enemy.

3rd, Her Accelerant Ability is fine as it is to me.

4th, Her Fire Blast is probably the worst made skill I ever seen in this entire game, which is sad cause Nyx exists; but even she isn't false advertisement. It's like If Polarize, and Electric shield had a still born baby! The thing that bother me the most is that it's barely recognizable, and the fact ability range does nothing for this skill is ridiculous. I suggest Blast Zone, Ember creates a personal bubble around herself, allies that touch the bubble get added heat damage to their weapons. The bubble also absorbs a percentage of damage ember takes, If Ember casts Accelerant before the duration expires, the bubble collapses dealing base damage x (AS) x (remaining duration) and blasting enemies straight up into the air. Fireballs gain Increased damage and status chance when

5th, Her World on Fire is boring, it does low damage, has low range, and needs a mod to do anything remotely useful. Also things like Maim and Effigy simply does whatever it is trying to do but better. I read that world on fire was nerfed not trivialize low end content but this made the former two skills outshine it because they lack the specific limitations that Wold on Fire has now, which is low range, low energy efficiency, and a limitation on effected entities. Personally I would just like skills like this to be done away with... I hate them on Oberon, on Nekros without augment it's annoying, and as for this one it's primary use has been gutted. I suggest Armageddon, Ember does a radial pulse of heat status that 100% makes enemies within a large range (21m) panic. Effected enemies will store all heat damage done to them for the duration of the Armageddon debuff (same duration as the status effect), after a short time all effected targets will violently explode with blast damage in a (15m) radius dealing base x (AS) x (stored damage) and knocking any living enemies to the floor. Enemies that die to this skill have additional chance to drop an energy orb.

 

Hopefully this thread will jump start a serious discussion about reworking this horrible frame, that gets smoked by less squishier ones... even though it's supposed to be an "offensive" frame.

 

 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Ember: the DPS frame that can’t DPS.

But apparently People consider killing level 20’s as a feat that makes a Warframe great so *shrug*.

Seriously tho Hildryn can do exactly what World On Fire does and has the rest of her kit that works at far higher levels.

Embers biggest problem right now is that her abilities are far too passive to just be let to deal a lot of damage. They need to be completely changed into more interactive abilities with elaborate synergies in order to justify an AOE DPS frame that can deal with level 100’s.

[Xzorn]

She's been Nerfed around 5 times now.

She was at least functional before the last one when WoF could provide ambient CC with spot CC on Accelerant otherwise she just has the same problem most frames do as enemies scale. Ability damage just doesn't scale well, esp against armor. The reason frames like Nidus appear to function is simply the amount of damage done.

Ember can buff her weapon damage a decent amount. Problem is doing so robs the weapon of Corrosive proc weight. Overall her kit isn't really bad just done wrong. Really wrong in fact and a lot of it is due to Heat damage because trying to make her do more damage actually makes her do less damage against Armor.

I took her to 300 long while back. Most frames in fact. It was far more messy with Ember because she lacks reliable defense and CC but passive is not a word I'd use to describe that play through. Frantic panic and 2 / 3 spam would be more accurate. Banshee is the only other frame I've had to put as much effort into.

Doubt I could do it again since her last nerf. Restarting her 4th every 15s or whatever is prolly just too much on top of all the other stuff.

[Andaius]

5 hours ago, Xzorn said:

She's been Nerfed around 5 times now.

She was at least functional before the last one when WoF could provide ambient CC with spot CC on Accelerant otherwise she just has the same problem most frames do as enemies scale. Ability damage just doesn't scale well, esp against armor. The reason frames like Nidus appear to function is simply the amount of damage done.

Ember can buff her weapon damage a decent amount. Problem is doing so robs the weapon of Corrosive proc weight. Overall her kit isn't really bad just done wrong. Really wrong in fact and a lot of it is due to Heat damage because trying to make her do more damage actually makes her do less damage against Armor.

I took her to 300 long while back. Most frames in fact. It was far more messy with Ember because she lacks reliable defense and CC but passive is not a word I'd use to describe that play through. Frantic panic and 2 / 3 spam would be more accurate. Banshee is the only other frame I've had to put as much effort into.

Doubt I could do it again since her last nerf. Restarting her 4th every 15s or whatever is prolly just too much on top of all the other stuff.

Yeah, I don't really know how people called her "passive" Unless your always fighting in the levels 1-40 range. You can't really do afk WoF anywhere past level 30. You just don't kill fast enough. Once you get to 60+ you really need to stay on your toes of you go down alot.  So "passive" wasn't something I ever associated with how she plays. You always moving, and shooting to stay alive.

[Jax_Cavalera]

Maybe all she needs is a name change from Ember to Extinguished?

[Andaius]

2 hours ago, Jax_Cavalera said:

Maybe all she needs is a name change from Ember to Extinguished?

I wouldn't really go that far, she's still plenty good on anything you'd find on the star chart normally. It's only 60+ she starts to lag behind on the damage output vs. heavy armor guys.

[000l000]

Le 01/08/2019 à 07:04, Xzorn a dit :

She was at least functional before the last one when WoF could provide ambient CC with spot CC on Accelerant otherwise she just has the same problem most frames do as enemies scale.

This has been discussed a lot of times already. Ember is fine as she is, sure she could be improved here and there but the only thing that doesn't work fine in Warframe currently is armor scaling. Ember isn't the only frame that suffers from that, and tbh anything but corrosive does have some hard time dealing with that. But as far as i know damages are going to be looked at so maybe the whole game balance will certainly change this year, or the next.

And concerning OP, if he's struggling with level 100 content he most certainly doesn't have a clue about how Ember is working, she's melting anything but Grineers up to really high level - And from my own experience she can definitely kill even Grineers up to that level with fire only, i don't even use corrosive so yeah, she may struggle against armors but she's the only frame in the entire game who can kill anything armoured with fire only.

This forum is full of people who are spending their whole life complaining, if only they'd be spending half of that time trying to solve their issues by themselves, we'd have quite a decent feedback thread. They aren't wise enough to complain about the real threat here, armor scaling.

Edited August 3, 2019 by 000l000

[Xzorn]

2 hours ago, 000l000 said:

This has been discussed a lot of times already. Ember is fine as she is, sure she could be improved here and there but the only thing that doesn't work fine in Warframe currently is armor scaling. Ember isn't the only frame that suffers from that, and tbh anything but corrosive does have some hard time dealing with that. But as far as i know damages are going to be looked at so maybe the whole game balance will certainly change this year, or the next.

 

I personally find Armor scaling is a safe guard and not much problem as it's made out to be.

If not for Armor scaling these map-wide AoE nukes would remain unchecked and every frame would be a Saryn. Now I don't think these abilities should suddenly be worthless but in case of Ember's WoF it became a solid ambient CC solution while guns did the work. I'm fine with this. Her biggest flaw was as I mentioned by attempting to increase her damage through Fire amps she ends up doing less damage since it's stealing Corrosive procs from the weapons.

The lvl 300 run I used as example for instance I used a pure Corrosive Torrid and allowed her Flame Blast bonus Heat damage layers to turn it into Corrosive + Heat giving the weapon near it's typical CC potency without screwing up it ability to deal with armor much then once some armor is stripped that Heat amped damage starts doing it's job. Problem is, this doesn't work for all weapons which is a flaw in how her damage amp abilities stack.

[000l000]

il y a une heure, Xzorn a dit :

I personally find Armor scaling is a safe guard and not much problem as it's made out to be.

Huge discrepancy between Grineer and every other faction is an issue and it's pretty much related to armor scaling.

Huge difference between corrosive and other elements is related to armor scaling.

We aren't talking about DE getting rid of any damage reduction mechanics, but how current armor is scaling is a huge issue and prevents any balance from working properly. We're all running the same build and only armor stripping frames can handle high level grineers with powers only.

il y a une heure, Xzorn a dit :

The lvl 300 run I used as example

Non offense but no one cares about level 300 runs, that's niche gameplay at best and absolutely no current content makes us fight that high level enemies unless we're spending hours in them. You can't find more irrelevant examples as that and game has not to be balanced around such stuff.

Quite funnily electricity does pathetic damages on high level armoured enemies but no one is whining about Volt. Warframe badly needs a damage overhaul and DE already stated they were working on that, so yeah - current armor scaling is an issue. Hopefully you aren't working at DE so maybe one day we could see an update that would tremendously help with this terrible damage mechanics where almost half of damage types are all but relevant.

Ember is definitely nowhere as bad as some people think here, trying better suited builds and gears is the only advice they deserve cause in the end i'm pretty sure the only thing they truly want is an overpowered frame that would only run into mobs, watching them falling like flies. Spin-2-win, semi-afk Saryn and Ignis wraith are some good examples that people don't care about balance, they only care about lazy stuff.

Edited August 3, 2019 by 000l000

[Xzorn]

18 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

current armor scaling is an issue.

 

It really isn't that big of an issue. Is it flawed? Sure but without it many many weapons would have no purpose.

The Armor scaling isn't what players are feeling. It's the RAW HP scaling. Armor Vs Corrosive status counter each other and the curve slows drastically.

Level 300 is a perfect example of this in fact. If you can effectively deal with armor at lvl 80 then you can deal with it at lvl 300. Thing is most players aren't dealing with it. They're doing a little then letting raw damage overkill the target. The biggest difference in required Corrosive proc to fully strip armor is between lvl 1 and 100. There actually isn't much difference in kill speeds between factions at level 300+ and players should care about those higher levels because this game is a joke in Difficulty.

Far as ruining AoE nuke damage. I say good. Most AoE nuke damage is useless even on unarmored enemies later. It simply doesn't scale well.

This is a shooter after all.

Plz Nerf Armur:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Grizmoore]

On 2019-08-01 at 12:12 AM, Marinara19 said:

Her Accelerant Ability is fine as it is to me.

Respectfully I'm gonna disagree. it's cool that it helps her other abilities, but it should probably buff her fire damage and her ability damage at the same time for a stacking buff that can work with the rest of her loadout. 

On 2019-08-01 at 12:12 AM, Marinara19 said:

Blast Zone, Ember creates a personal bubble around herself, allies that touch the bubble get added heat damage to their weapons

Why is everyone's solution to weak frames put a bubble on it? I mean it works for gara, but her 3 as is does a good job catching things on fire and buffing allies and creating zone cancellation. really just needs a numbers tweak and the ability to benefit from energy regen abilities and pizzas while world on fire is active.

 

On 2019-08-01 at 12:36 AM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Embers biggest problem right now is that her abilities are far too passive to just be let to deal a lot of damage. They need to be completely changed into more interactive abilities with elaborate synergies in order to justify an AOE DPS frame that can deal with level 100’s.

You right, it should be more like equinox where you press 4 and then 4 again to kill everything, if you're feeling adventurous you can also use your 3. 

 

On 2019-08-01 at 1:04 AM, Xzorn said:

She was at least functional before the last one when WoF could provide ambient CC with spot CC on Accelerant otherwise she just has the same problem most frames do as enemies scale. Ability damage just doesn't scale well, esp against armor. The reason frames like Nidus appear to function is simply the amount of damage done.

I mean it says in her flavor text that low armor stuff needs to watch it around her. otherwise she needs to simply run corrosive like she should already be doing on any grineer missions. If you try to make an argument for energy drain on her remember that she doesn't benefit from such things while WoF is active. 

 

So after reading through this thread, I don't think any of you are playing ember to her best, WoF + accelerate should be killing or seriously wounding most enemies into the 40 range. You actually have to give this aoe frame some damage and not 280% range. She is not a map clear frame but a frame that can quickly burn through enemies. 

Not trying to be mean, but I am sick of seeing "Ember is so sad" while frames like Vauban and Zephyr are what they are. 

[(PSN)deathwolfclaw666]

I still find her to be decent. However compared to how I used to be able to play her, now she is a bit brain dead.

[Grizmoore]

Just now, (PS4)deathwolfclaw666 said:

I still find her to be decent. However compared to how I used to be able to play her, now she is a bit brain dead.

It might just be that you've changed as a player. I find this version perfectly suitable, you defenitely have to manage energy way more than most frames, but other than that a simple number tweak is in order not a proper rework.

[(PSN)deathwolfclaw666]

3 minutes ago, Grizmoore said:

It might just be that you've changed as a player. I find this version perfectly suitable, you defenitely have to manage energy way more than most frames, but other than that a simple number tweak is in order not a proper rework.

Well it was an instant change after the nerf. These days I just hop around with her spamming 3 (alongside 2 for the very rare occasion when I need it) which gets the job done. Pre nerf I'd turn on WoF then mix my other abilities with weapon fire and melee attacks while keeping on the move. Post nerf I just started using WoF and then went AFK using energy pizzas when needed because I was killing things quicker.

[PunishedWelfare]

Considering how long it takes her to kill high lvl enemies she needs some damn armor or a defensive ability because she gets owned even with umbrals. She's just not made to last long. I can't really complain, but I would love to be able to take her on long runs. And of course she is probably the most expensive frame, with many formas, maxed umbral and primed mods, and 2 energizes.

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

 

 

Everything in my kit should literally fix “ALL” of Ember’s issues. Take a look.

[TeaHawk]

The problem is again DE ignoring meta. On last devstream I've seen they were srsly talking about nerfing Gauss 3, after hardly killing lvl 15 enemies.

If they consider this overpowered, don't wait for improvements any time soon. They just don't understand the basics.

[Blexander]

1 hour ago, TeaHawk said:

The problem is again DE ignoring meta. On last devstream I've seen they were srsly talking about nerfing Gauss 3, after hardly killing lvl 15 enemies.

If they consider this overpowered, don't wait for improvements any time soon. They just don't understand the basics.

I've seen people say "DE's team is one of the few that actually play their game". I am genuinely curious as to exactly which parts they play, because I'm not convinced that they're aware of how each mission type's meta works. The worst part is community feedback is largely ignored. They haven't been transparent with us once. A simple "Hey guys, we've had something in the works, that can be considered long overdue for some of you. It's going to take us more time to finish, but we're working on it." should be enough. Is that too much to ask? A little bit of transparency?

[TeaHawk]

6 minutes ago, Blexander said:

The worst part is community feedback is largely ignored.

And if it's not — beware of nerfs.

[Blexander]

1 minute ago, TeaHawk said:

And if it's not — beware of nerfs.

Nerfs are different cup of piss. Hell, that's the one thing DE reliably ships out, because... OUTCRY. Or at least they did. I haven't seen a nerf since Ember and Banshee. You could say Nyx had a pseudo nerf from the readjust. But that makes no sense to me.

Let's use Ember as an example:
Range nerf:

-Public reasoning: WoF is an AFK skill, it can kill through walls, it trivializes low-level missions
-Actual reasoning: A minority of players couldn't stand not being able to kill anything because Ember kills them first in said low-level missions

-The hypocrisy:

• Nobody (sane) likes AFK skills, but only Ember was hit with the Nerf-mallet. Nezha's 1, reworked to be duration-based. Equinox, untouched.
• Many players keep asking for an Ember rework/rollback, they get nothing

Who exactly are they listening to? Certainly not the forums. We have a new suggestion for Ember every week (at least). I think that should've tipped them off that SOMETHING isn't right.

My theory/assumption is that they're preoccupied with the 2 new frames, New War and etc. to be able to let the creative team rework old frames. Again, can't they just tell us? 80% of the community already brown-noses regularly, so there won't be any major backlash to DElaying reworks/content. Or they just don't care. Could be both.

[TeaHawk]

3 minutes ago, Blexander said:

Nerfs are different cup of piss. Hell, that's the one thing DE reliably ships out, because... OUTCRY. Or at least they did. I haven't seen a nerf since Ember and Banshee. You could say Nyx had a pseudo nerf from the readjust. But that makes no sense to me.

Let's use Ember as an example:
Range nerf:

-Public reasoning: WoF is an AFK skill, it can kill through walls, it trivializes low-level missions
-Actual reasoning: A minority of players couldn't stand not being able to kill anything because Ember kills them first in said low-level missions

-The hypocrisy:

• Nobody (sane) likes AFK skills, but only Ember was hit with the Nerf-mallet. Nezha's 1, reworked to be duration-based. Equinox, untouched.
• Many players keep asking for an Ember rework/rollback, they get nothing

Who exactly are they listening to? Certainly not the forums. We have a new suggestion for Ember every week (at least). I think that should've tipped them off that SOMETHING isn't right.

My theory/assumption is that they're preoccupied with the 2 new frames, New War and etc. to be able to let the creative team rework old frames. Again, can't they just tell us? 80% of the community already brown-noses regularly, so there won't be any major backlash to DElaying reworks/content. Or they just don't care. Could be both.

This.

Nerfing Ember while you still have insane aoe frames like Saryn and Gara makes so little sense. Rework suggestion every week... almost every single day I say.
I've been asking for this for 8 months. There are so many good ideas thoroughly balanced by players. Just take them, DE.

And then their new frame they're working on appears to be another useless garbage with filler abilities.

It feels like quality does not matter anymore.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

I still play Ember very effectively, even taking most damage done in most of my missions I chose to bring her to at sortie level.

The issue with it is that my build is costly, requiring 2 arcane Energize. I don't think Ember has any middle ground in regards to build diversity.

[DroopingPuppy]

The lies that 'Ember is fine' never changes, even after a year was passed since her removal. Sigh. Are they ever aware that Ember was already inferior to some warframes before the removal on 03. 2018?

Edited August 8, 2019 by DroopingPuppy

[Veridian]

Really tried to make her work.

Any other frame with the same investment gets me through anything from orbs to arbs.

Ember? 5 forma, umbral mods and 2x energize so I can speed through lv 30-40 fissures 😕

cmon, this is the FIRE FRAME.

[Zectico]

Used to think that Ember was only good for clearing trash, until someone named Ember_Main out dps-ed Mesa and Saryn for the entire duration of a sortie (Mobile defense, Exterminate, Survival).

 

I think people may just not know how to build her, and then jump on the ember rework train.