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Does DE use metrics to see if their game is balanced in dificulty/fun??

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When DE release new stuff like arbitrations or disruptions or orb spider fights or eidolons do they measure anything player side to see if its to easy or to hard?

For example do you look at the active player base on any given platform and compare who has ran that content and who hasnt?  And of those who have ran it, who has only done it a handful of times or less?  And then for a true picture take snapshots like that each month after release to see if anything goes up or down.

My suspicion is that only a small % of the playerbase runs the endgame stuff,  not for lack of people who want to but for the difficulty being so offputting.  Getting one hit killed,  having to have specific gear to make the fights effecient.    

Why cater to only a small % of the community?  Your afraid if you make thegame to easy you will lose your "hardcore" players but if that makes up only 10-15% of your community.....Arent you more afraid of the other 75-80% of the community losing interest and just walking away?? 

What I really wanna know is those % numbers.   What % of players actually enjoy the hard content,  what % get left out.

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Warframe is already so easy that I am not really sure what you're talking about. The only hard phase of the game is the first few ranks after you freshly join the game. Once you reach rank 6 or higher - you should have no problems beating any content of this game. The "hard" stuff in the game is not hard - it is just you choosing wrong warframe/weapon for a mission or you just rushed rank up instead of actually making your frames and weapons strong. This game allows you to literally make a god mode builds for frames - killing everything around and never dying... how can it be any difficult?

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New players have enough content to keep them busy while veterans lack any sort of challenge even with the supposed endgame stuff in play. It is just all to easy and I think we need even harder stuff to give the established players a real challenge exclusive to them with no nerfs because of casual complaints. Their is so much content for the new players that I think DE could afford to please their veterans with a mode just for them...

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DE does have metrics for popularity, which they've shown for warframes and use regularly for Riven dispositions, and I think they do have similar metrics for the number of players that complete certain quests or run certain missions, which iirc they brought up for Trials and certain critical quests. I would be careful about using those metrics for gauging endgame-oriented content, though, because endgame content by nature is geared towards people who've gone through pretty much the entire rest of the game, which will always be less than the entire playerbase. 

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Posted (edited)
vor 15 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Zweimander:

New players have enough content to keep them busy while veterans lack any sort of challenge even with the supposed endgame stuff in play. It is just all to easy and I think we need even harder stuff to give the established players a real challenge exclusive to them with no nerfs because of casual complaints. Their is so much content for the new players that I think DE could afford to please their veterans with a mode just for them...

and how should a mode "just for the veteran" actually be?

i am so tiered of reading "there is no stuff mimimi"

but i never have read any good and useful idea to make something which does not crush the system as it is.

any veteran has it's own point of view and need something diffrent so what exactly should DE do?

to build new possibility like warship battles, building your own ship and crew and so on is nothing a veteran want? really?

to improve and build the storyline is nothing a veteran would like?

Edited by (PS4)NewcastleDisease
typo again
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1 minute ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

and how should a mode "just for the veteran" actually be?

i am so tiered of reading "there is no stuff mimimi"

but i never have read any good and useful idea to make something which does not crush the system as it is.

any veteran has it's own point of view and need something diffrent so what exactly should DE do?

the build new possibility like warship battles, building your own ship and crew and so on is nothing a veteran want? really?

the improve and build the storyline is nothing a veteran would like?

I imagine a mode just for the veterans would start out at level 200+ and have the vest rewards to match the difficulty in question. It would be like arbitrations used to be where you have all your revives but you dont get a chance to be picked up and you just lose the revive when your hp hits zero. It could encompass all mission types and random negative effects would hit your squad like energy drain, health drain and maybe even temporary loss of certain abilities! Gear would be disabled and regen of everything would be halved or even quartered so cheese tactics would be far less likley and even operators would be limited by it! And to top ot all off have nothing but the most difficult enemies from every faction to make things as difficult on youbas possible and very little chance of success. And the cherry on top is a 1 mill credit cost and you have to be the current maximum MR to play them....

Of course this would offer the best rewards be it legendary cores, umbral forma, Lots of kuva, and the list could go on but I think you get the point. Would new players complain they are nowhere near prepared for it? Yeah they would but it would not be for them and purely for those who put in all the time on min maxing to unlock it and want slmething truly challenging!

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Posted (edited)
vor 1 Stunde schrieb (XB1)Zweimander:

I imagine a mode just for the veterans would start out at level 200+ and have the vest rewards to match the difficulty in question. It would be like arbitrations used to be where you have all your revives but you dont get a chance to be picked up and you just lose the revive when your hp hits zero. It could encompass all mission types and random negative effects would hit your squad like energy drain, health drain and maybe even temporary loss of certain abilities! Gear would be disabled and regen of everything would be halved or even quartered so cheese tactics would be far less likley and even operators would be limited by it! And to top ot all off have nothing but the most difficult enemies from every faction to make things as difficult on youbas possible and very little chance of success. And the cherry on top is a 1 mill credit cost and you have to be the current maximum MR to play them....

Of course this would offer the best rewards be it legendary cores, umbral forma, Lots of kuva, and the list could go on but I think you get the point. Would new players complain they are nowhere near prepared for it? Yeah they would but it would not be for them and purely for those who put in all the time on min maxing to unlock it and want slmething truly challenging!

so you just want a harder sanctuary with state of the art reward.. how well that work we have already seen in small with normal sanctuary and khora as reward. may this would work for you, but i don't think that this will keep people playing longer than a few days... because it is just another annoying endless mission type. 

instead of that, DE brings us new content to explore and new story telling to find out more about tennos, the old war and the new war beginning, they will also add new open worlds with diffrent mechanics too. yeah, at some point you will have seen everything. after weeks of playing. what do you think the majority will prefer?

Edited by (PS4)NewcastleDisease
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One thing you have to consider is how vast the game is from the beginning. What percentage of the game would you consider easy and what percentage would you consider hard or even extreme?

If we say 85% of the game is easy then does that not match up perfectly with the 85% of regular players? Same for the other percents.

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3 hours ago, (PS4)AbBaNdOn_IGN said:

When DE release new stuff like arbitrations or disruptions or orb spider fights or eidolons do they measure anything player side to see if its to easy or to hard?

For example do you look at the active player base on any given platform and compare who has ran that content and who hasnt?  And of those who have ran it, who has only done it a handful of times or less?  And then for a true picture take snapshots like that each month after release to see if anything goes up or down.

My suspicion is that only a small % of the playerbase runs the endgame stuff,  not for lack of people who want to but for the difficulty being so offputting.  Getting one hit killed,  having to have specific gear to make the fights effecient.    

Why cater to only a small % of the community?  Your afraid if you make thegame to easy you will lose your "hardcore" players but if that makes up only 10-15% of your community.....Arent you more afraid of the other 75-80% of the community losing interest and just walking away?? 

What I really wanna know is those % numbers.   What % of players actually enjoy the hard content,  what % get left out.

They don't only release endgame stuff. That's actually a significant source of whining every time new content is released. 

I figure that the "I need to be over the top to get more views" attitude that's common on YouTube encourages some of the content creators to make a mountain out of the molehill on air, and then when gullible people who want to follow the fashion, end up flooding the forums. Then folks like you end up thinking that their whining is getting them attention. 

DE introduces content, and then tries to balance it over time so that most people can benefit from it. 

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As a Vet, I'm pretty satisfied with the content that is released. Warframe isn't challanging (except maybe early on) but in my opnion it doesn't have to be, it's a powerfantasy.

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Posted (edited)

"How come I can't enjoy all the content at MR4?"

If you don't want to be "excluded" from high-level content, upgrade your mods. You cannot whine about DE "catering to a small percent of hardcore players"  with Arbitrations when the VAST majority of the game is so ridiculously easy. 

Edited by (XB1)Erudite Prime
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10 hours ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

but i never have read any good and useful idea to make something which does not crush the system as it is.

any veteran has it's own point of view and need something diffrent so what exactly should DE do?

 

I spent the better part of a week designing this for Veterans. 

It's highly dynamic and allows players to essentially pick their own level of difficulty. Appeals to player progression points.

No cheap Immunity crap and unlike most content DE creates the re-play value is also quite sizable.

Spoiler

 

 

10 hours ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

to build new possibility like warship battles, building your own ship and crew and so on is nothing a veteran want? really?

to improve and build the storyline is nothing a veteran would like?

Not really. I much prefer good game play.

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Posted (edited)

 

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

 

I spent the better part of a week designing this for Veterans. 

It's highly dynamic and allows players to essentially pick their own level of difficulty. Appeals to player progression points.

No cheap Immunity crap and unlike most content DE creates the re-play value is also quite sizable.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Not really. I much prefer good game play.

I've said it before, but I really feel it's a disservice to conversations on improvements to the game being lumped into a veteran vs new player approach. There's really no reason for conversations around enhancements to gameplay to have that sort of wedge inserted. A large amount of the more stagnate mechanics to the game are present throughout it. Particularly the combat and ai system.

A lot of the needed improvements to good gameplay apply to players new and old. More often than not it's a distraction to separate the two.

Edited by ikkabotz
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7 minutes ago, ikkabotz said:

I've said it before, but I really feel it's a disservice to conversations on improvements to the game being lumped into a veteran vs new player approach.

 

My approach is not simply New Vs Veterans. It's a dynamic continuously changing and enduring piece of content that can be played by most but unlike majority of content currently in the game it also incorporates reasons to use mechanics and play styles that are otherwise under developed or quite near dead, including teamwork.

Warframe of today is a game with tons of layered mechanics and less reason than ever to use them.

The true difference between new players and veterans isn't mods, stats, levels or plat. It's the knowledge of how to layer mechanics of the game together and work as a team to achieve a goal higher than one could before thus by default ALL content in Warframe is for new players as nothing in the game requires more than a basic understanding.

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11 hours ago, (XB1)Zweimander said:

I imagine a mode just for the veterans would start out at level 200+ and have the vest rewards to match the difficulty in question. It would be like arbitrations used to be where you have all your revives but you dont get a chance to be picked up and you just lose the revive when your hp hits zero. It could encompass all mission types and random negative effects would hit your squad like energy drain, health drain and maybe even temporary loss of certain abilities! Gear would be disabled and regen of everything would be halved or even quartered so cheese tactics would be far less likley and even operators would be limited by it! And to top ot all off have nothing but the most difficult enemies from every faction to make things as difficult on youbas possible and very little chance of success. And the cherry on top is a 1 mill credit cost and you have to be the current maximum MR to play them....

I have 1844 hours in Warframe according to Steam. Does that make me a "veteran" yet? Because the game mode you describe is the exact opposite of what I, as a putative veteran, would like to see more of. I'm not sure where this idea that all veterans want broken-hard content to the point where the game's systems break down entirely, but that way lies a dead-end street. Warframe has a ridiculous amount of content sitting around unplayed. Updating that and giving us reasons to come back to it is all the end game I personally want.

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I guess im the type who just wants back breaking difficulty to play some time and keep me on my toes while most of the time being the demigod I usually am then. I want back breaking difficulty in its own veteran only space with the best rewards in the game to give the people who truly dig into the game something only they can play! It would just be one thing and the most challenging content to date pushing even the most meta of builds with how tough it is which some players do indeed want so I dont see why they couldnt. Weve been left in the dark and had stuff that used to be ours nerfed to apease the newbies enough and I think its about time we got our own thing they just have to deal with not being able to even attempt as a bit of payback...

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According to DE' own statistics the overall fail rate for missions is around 2% (and i'm willing to bet those include aborted ones).

Make of that what you will...

 

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Id say OP that is and should be stuff worked out by Beta testers . Not. End users. We shouldnt be guinea pigs (small errors, graphical issues aside)

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sure its not like open world take up a ton of resources, its not like nightwave are just glorified dailies thats going to keep the game alive forever, its not like a mountain of new modes that are just reskined boring content will go stale faster (sarcastic tone) rather than just putting in a single place that is supposed to last for ppl who are tired of cookie clicker gameplay. if anything the low percent is probly from the factor everyone leaves the game cuz there is no point in playing. ppl are gonna be like "oh i dont want a hard game" thats fine we arent asking them to revamp the entire game or are we trying to force u into it, does that mean we get to complain the tutorial area isnt meant for vets? "the game doesnt need any of this" then what does it need? more reskin content thatll last a week? can ppl even assure a proper endgame is bad for business when they havent even made one yet (and no those endgame attempts dont even count cuz ppl have even given countless feedback on why they arent or failed) while other games still prosper even more when they have one. "you cant force the developer to change their vision" saying the game isnt allowed to change is like saying every single vet should rise up against the game cuz the game changed from what it was before into what it is now, not to mention DE themselves said the game is constantly changing and they want to find what will make ppl actually stick to the game. "leave the game or take a break" steve himself said he wants to find a way to make warframe the "wife" not the "spouse" meaning he want to find a way that makes players want to stay for long periods of time and not constant small temporary releases that are probly burning out their workers and players at the same. lets face some facts sure there are gonna be bad ideas for an endgame, then debate those specific ideas cuz even ive said on some topics why something wouldnt fit well for it, ive had ppl tell me why my ideas might not work thats fine then ill try again but when ppl give a cop out answer for a general "no one with an idea that even relates to this topic is allowed to speak" only leaves the game for a downward slope.

there are several games that have alot less content than warframe that are 10x more successful why? because they do on what they are trying to be actually well it isnt the idea of an endgame thatll hurt the game, its making an unpolished one even if they dont want an endgame then what is warframe? is it a adventure game? insta traveling across the map with no incentive to explore mostly in small mission instances isnt a adventure game. is it a story game? from the start needing to spend 60 hours just to get into a story that is still unfinished with little background explanation or character writing isnt a full story game. is it a pvp game? lets be honest the reason why conclave is sooooo damn horrible not because its pve focused its cuz its just horrible, there are plenty of games that do both pretty well. is it a active mmorpg? no all u need is 1 man armies to do anything, there is no real incentive to gather in clans besides locked weapons or to gather with friends to get anything done like cough* raids cough*. is it a action game? eating a donut with one hand while spamming a single button with the other and reading manga with my foot isnt what i call an action game. is it a casual game? you dont jump in warframe knowing what to do instantly, it portray itself with depth that doesnt even give purpose to it from its mechanics even to art style isnt made for the average casual even then many games are made both casually and competitively. is it just a grind game? even then the grind becomes brain dead boring, ppl dont care if they need to spend hours on a game if it isnt fun enough then ppl arent gonna flock to it, sure fun is subjective but other grind games atleast have an endgame for those who wanna see their grind put into effort without the need of constant hype flashes. 

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18 hours ago, (PS4)AbBaNdOn_IGN said:

My suspicion is that only a small % of the playerbase runs the endgame stuff,  not for lack of people who want to but for the difficulty being so offputting.  Getting one hit killed,  having to have specific gear to make the fights effecient.    

Why cater to only a small % of the community?  Your afraid if you make thegame to easy you will lose your "hardcore" players but if that makes up only 10-15% of your community.....Arent you more afraid of the other 75-80% of the community losing interest and just walking away?? 

Wait, we have an endgame?  What?

First off, Arbitrations are normal missions plus drones.  I have been in an Arbitration survival for 200 minutes, it was about the same as doing that in a regular survival.

Second, the frame and weapons you bring largely determines the difficulty.  You actually have tons of options if you don't care about doing it in the shortest possible time (and, spoilers, every single part of the game has a most efficient way to do it).

Third, the vast majority of what they've released  or announced in the last year is mainly geared toward newbies or people who don't particularly care for a challenge.  Your gameplay is safe, don't worry.

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18 hours ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

and how should a mode "just for the veteran" actually be?

i am so tiered of reading "there is no stuff mimimi"

but i never have read any good and useful idea to make something which does not crush the system as it is.

any veteran has it's own point of view and need something diffrent so what exactly should DE do?

to build new possibility like warship battles, building your own ship and crew and so on is nothing a veteran want? really?

to improve and build the storyline is nothing a veteran would like?

There has been many GREAT IDEAS. You kids ignore them because you want everything to be a cakewalk Here ill list a few 

"fixing enemy scaling"

"allow missions to scale higher per player or group choice or scale mission according to Mr of players in group" 

"REVERT ARBYS"

"Make smarter AI" 

"revert Fortuna enemy nerf"

I can keep going brother

 

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Posted (edited)
vor 3 Stunden schrieb (PS4)sweatshawp:

There has been many GREAT IDEAS. You kids ignore them because you want everything to be a cakewalk Here ill list a few 

"fixing enemy scaling"

"allow missions to scale higher per player or group choice or scale mission according to Mr of players in group" 

"REVERT ARBYS"

"Make smarter AI" 

"revert Fortuna enemy nerf"

I can keep going brother

 

kids? 0o sorry, i don't think you know me nor you are aware of my age

 

enemy scaling is fine as it is, as every mission have a starting lvl you can see before starting. what you wanna fix on that? and if the scaling is faster - how should new player be able to play?

Arbitrations are "elite" player stuff, and yes, they can do whatever with them without interrupt anything else, you're right here.

AI is not a real problem. sometime it may be a little idiotic, but it does its job. it's not better or worse then other games.

fortuna enemys are still to smart for a lot of players i know, so no, not really an option.

so yes, on your list is exact one thing they could do. everything else will prevent new players for ranking up, to play or even have some fun without frustrating about missions they can't finish.

what all of you "elite" player miss are that most players not on rank 27, not only play on lvl 200 mission or higher and do not want enemys they can't beat on normal mission.

I am may "only" on rank 17, but playing for over 2 years now. i have no problems with any kind of mission type warframe has at the moment and still have fun. why? because it not my goal to hit the highest mission ranking or to get the next 300lvl mission or whatever. i just play for fun, farming some stuff, helping other players if they have problems, explore the great world they have created and so on. may you should think about something different then just the next mega-enemy.

i also don't get it: when you all not entertained from AI - why you don't use conclave and do PvP. would be a fair fight between veterans don't you think?

i also think DE could do some more stuff for high lvl player, but i never read any useful idea.  an example: they implement a new endless mission type starting lvl 200 just for the veterans. how often you will play it? 20? 30? times until it's just another thing you had played and are not sadisfying.... thats the main problem i see in all "elite"-suggestions.

Edited by (PS4)NewcastleDisease
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4 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

"fixing enemy scaling"

"allow missions to scale higher per player or group choice or scale mission according to Mr of players in group" 

"REVERT ARBYS"

"Make smarter AI"

"revert Fortuna enemy nerf"

None of these suggestions, nor all of them at once, would solve the problem warframe has with making engaging content for veteran players.  There is hardly content that requires one to demonstrate knowledge of mechanics and to put them to use, and there is even less content that requires making use of more than a single pivotal mechanic.  No amount of BiGgEr NuMbErS will make enemies more interesting to fight, unless one considers simply being forced to use a smaller variety of top tier equipment "interesting".  Enemy scaling tweaks might make more damage types and weapons viable in a theoretical endgame gamemode, but it wouldn't make it on its own.  'smarter AI' sounds great until every unit in the game is backpedaling from the void-space-gods invading their galleon.

The game has a giant mash of combat, parkour, flight(vehicle/otherwise), puzzling and stealth mechanics that go totally unutilized in the vast majority of its content.  You can see little sparks of progress, such as the kuva guardians requiring specific maneuvers to deal with or the way you have to micromanage the drones for an eidelon capture, in some updates but it's not all that impressive or challenging.  Archwing(and now K-drive), actual stealth(as in, not totally cheesed by invis frames or just killing everything fast enough), puzzling(Lua rooms, old raid sections) and parkour(outside of just moving faster) all see such little use outside of their own little slices of the game.  They are implemented into ranking up one's MR, mostly, but after passing those tests there's nothing in the game that suggests you ever had to learn those mechanics.  At the end of the game, the wizened tenno knows a bunch of party tricks that see little to no use in the field.  That is endgame, not level 500 enemies with slightly improved AI and slightly less bs armor scaling.

Arbitrations are such a goof, all it really did was add above-normal-difficulty regular old missions with one central new mechanic (the drones), which are just kind of a different way of packaging the effect of a nullifier at the end of the day.  They aren't half bad in their own right, but it's just another example of another mechanic stranded on its own personal island to no benefit to the rest of the game.

 

(Though honestly, I think there's also just a ton of veterans experiencing burnout at their own pace.  That sweet juicy rewarding feeling of "building the new thing" wears off and you're left with a game that's very been-there-done-that to them.  I've always preferred Warframe as something I can come do dailys or something when I've got half an hour and nothing in particular to do, the combat's satisfying enough in spurts that I forget I wasn't earning anything. :p)

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41 minutes ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

 

enemy scaling is fine as it is, as every mission have a starting lvl you can see before starting. what you wanna fix on that? and if the scaling is faster - how should new player be able to play?

Arbitrations are "elite" player stuff, and yes, they can do whatever with them without interrupt anything else, you're right here.

AI is not a real problem. sometime it may be a little idiotic, but it does its job. it's not better or worse then other games.

fortuna enemys are still to smart for a lot of players i know, so no, not really an option.

so yes, on your list is exact one thing they could do. everything else will prevent new players for ranking up, to play or even have some fun without frustrating about missions they can't finish.

what all of you "elite" player miss are that most players not on rank 27, not only play on lvl 200 mission or higher and do not want enemys they can't beat on normal mission.

I am may "only" on rank 17, but playing for over 2 years now. i have no problems with any kind of mission type warframe has at the moment and still have fun. why? because it not my goal to hit the highest mission ranking or to get the next 300lvl mission or whatever. i just play for fun, farming some stuff, helping other players if they have problems, explore the great world they have created and so on. may you should think about something different then just the next mega-enemy.

i also don't get it: when you all not entertained from AI - why you don't use conclave and do PvP. would be a fair fight between veterans don't you think?

i also think DE could do some more stuff for high lvl player, but i never read any useful idea.  an example: they implement a new endless mission type starting lvl 200 just for the veterans. how often you will play it? 20? 30? times until it's just another thing you had played and are not sadisfying.... thats the main problem i see in all "elite"-suggestions.

A while ago enemy scaling was broken form an update and was never fixed. Hence why Enemies are Op in Long survivals. (fix scaling + scale faster = Nice challenge) 

Arbys Have revives in them because new players or should i say bad ones couldn't survive so you guys took that from us lol.

A smarter Ai has no real negatives why are people against this. 

Fortuna enemies on release were slightly harder and did more damage to my knowledge but hey im a console pleb. 

Your issue is with challenge vets don't want to bar others from levling up WE want a challenge something we can have fun doing. something Inclusive to us. (Rip logins) People have offered all of these options in an optional  format and it was still dismissed because you guys dont like the idea of separating vets from players who dont want a challenge even if we dont have to interact with you guys. Many of us want challenge like (ESO if it was up to date or Arbys if people didn't complain)  

You mentioned PVP dude play pvp and see how its a broken and unfinished Gamemode. im sure vets and players alike would love conclave if they actually ya know..... fixed the gamemode balanced it ... updated it....

 

and in reality no "elite" player wants to sit and fight level 200 enemies all day we want a challenge vs being able to one tap things in an instant on EVERY mission with EVERYTHING in our arsenal. We want to think. put our god builds to use. not sit in MOT or another T4 for hours Plus until enemies become oneshotting bullet sponges. People dont get that we want to be challenged nobody wants to take away from the casual experience but we want more added to the Endgame and hardcore experience. Not to mention raids were taken out and will probably come back 1000x easier when they do decide to bring them back as another example.) 

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3 minutes ago, KochDerFrettchen said:

None of these suggestions, nor all of them at once, would solve the problem warframe has with making engaging content for veteran players.  There is hardly content that requires one to demonstrate knowledge of mechanics and to put them to use, and there is even less content that requires making use of more than a single pivotal mechanic.  No amount of BiGgEr NuMbErS will make enemies more interesting to fight, unless one considers simply being forced to use a smaller variety of top tier equipment "interesting".  Enemy scaling tweaks might make more damage types and weapons viable in a theoretical endgame gamemode, but it wouldn't make it on its own.  'smarter AI' sounds great until every unit in the game is backpedaling from the void-space-gods invading their galleon.

The game has a giant mash of combat, parkour, flight(vehicle/otherwise), puzzling and stealth mechanics that go totally unutilized in the vast majority of its content.  You can see little sparks of progress, such as the kuva guardians requiring specific maneuvers to deal with or the way you have to micromanage the drones for an eidelon capture, in some updates but it's not all that impressive or challenging.  Archwing(and now K-drive), actual stealth(as in, not totally cheesed by invis frames or just killing everything fast enough), puzzling(Lua rooms, old raid sections) and parkour(outside of just moving faster) all see such little use outside of their own little slices of the game.  They are implemented into ranking up one's MR, mostly, but after passing those tests there's nothing in the game that suggests you ever had to learn those mechanics.  At the end of the game, the wizened tenno knows a bunch of party tricks that see little to no use in the field.  That is endgame, not level 500 enemies with slightly improved AI and slightly less bs armor scaling.

Arbitrations are such a goof, all it really did was add above-normal-difficulty regular old missions with one central new mechanic (the drones), which are just kind of a different way of packaging the effect of a nullifier at the end of the day.  They aren't half bad in their own right, but it's just another example of another mechanic stranded on its own personal island to no benefit to the rest of the game.

 

(Though honestly, I think there's also just a ton of veterans experiencing burnout at their own pace.  That sweet juicy rewarding feeling of "building the new thing" wears off and you're left with a game that's very been-there-done-that to them.  I've always preferred Warframe as something I can come do dailys or something when I've got half an hour and nothing in particular to do, the combat's satisfying enough in spurts that I forget I wasn't earning anything. :p)

while i do partially agree its a start and most of these suggestions have been at the forefront of Vets and Hardcore players short term goals its a challenge. Brother 

 

To talk about your second paragraph again i agreed up until reading the end of it. the use of all Wfs gimmics mechanics and fighting shouldnt just be labled as some sort of party trick. All of what we've been doing should have some grounds to stand on or some use or something to say hey This is usefull for x,y, and z. Most mechanics in the game are useless because of the little challenge brought in the game. Along with weapons becoming more and more broken i do feel like stronger enemies would help some. and of course Fixing scaling to make it balanced.

Arbys were and still are trash and could have been much more DE puts out content and if they arent a smash hit leave them in the dust (Pvp Lunario Arbys and ESO)

 

and im glad you can enjoy the game brother while I dont feel like my complaints are burnout but rather me caring alot about the game i invested so much time in and wanting to feel like me and my like minded vets voices matter. I can see why you'd think so. you get tired when your suggestions with good intent get overshadowed by the kid screeching for fixes to tennogen every time 

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