Forma Increasing a Weapons Stats.

[Fenrir121]

2 hours ago, (PS4)caffinated_flame said:

The point I was trying to to make is paper stat doesn't necessarily translate to how powerful a weapons is.

It.. it does. You can run the sims yourself if you're so inclined. There are "hidden" stats but they're still there and they still properly equate to how a weapon functions.

[(PSN)caffinated_flame]

4 minutes ago, Fenrir121 said:

It.. it does. You can run the sims yourself if you're so inclined. There are "hidden" stats but they're still there and they still properly equate to how a weapon functions.

How do u quantify how powerful a stance it,

Stats like fire rate, reload speed, magazine capacity also makes comparing weapons that just bit more difficult,

Ofcourse u can test how powerful weapons are with all sort of builds and compared them, but dont actually expect DE to test every weapon on the game it a all sort of builds.

[Fenrir121]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)caffinated_flame said:

How do u quantify how powerful a stance it,

Stats like fire rate, reload speed, magazine capacity also makes comparing weapons that just bit more difficult,

Ofcourse u can test how powerful weapons are with all sort of builds and compared them, but dont actually expect DE to test every weapon on the game it a all sort of builds.

Dude, if you think there aren't numbers quantifying weapons in this game I can't help you.

[Tiltskillet]

21 minutes ago, (PS4)caffinated_flame said:

How do u quantify how powerful a stance it,

That's not an insurmountable problem, but they can duck it somewhat by scaling weapons within their own weapon classes.  Heavy Blades vs Heavy Blades, Daggers vs. Daggers, etc.

Yes there's still a problem of balance between classes, but it seems unfair to expect every proposal to solve every related problem.

 

24 minutes ago, (PS4)caffinated_flame said:

Stats like fire rate, reload speed, magazine capacity also makes comparing weapons that just bit more difficult,

None of those are especially complicated, although I do think DE isn't valueing some  things as well as they could.

[(PSN)caffinated_flame]

32 minutes ago, Fenrir121 said:

Dude, if you think there aren't numbers quantifying weapons in this game I can't help you.

Lol am not saying that the numbers dont quantify the power of weapons.

Whilst you can look at a lot of weapons stats and say that weapon A is more powerful than weapon B. Weapon A reload speed might be 3 seconds and has a charge mechanic that doesn't make as usable as B. Sounds like alot of work/test would be required to do this to all weapons

Ofcouse the example is extreme

[Fenrir121]

1 minute ago, (PS4)caffinated_flame said:

Lol am not saying that the numbers dont quantify the power of weapons.

Whilst you can look at a lot of weapons stats and say that weapon A is more powerful than weapon B. Weapon A reload speed might be 3 seconds and has a charge mechanic that doesn't make as usable as B. Sounds like alot of work/test would be required to do this to all weapons

Ofcouse the example is extreme

That's still a quantifiable number someone can look at. I never said it would be quick. Someone would obviously have to look at a weapon and do the math. Like I said previously, Would it take time? Yes. Is it difficult? No, not really.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Fenrir121

[(PSN)caffinated_flame]

Just now, Fenrir121 said:

That's still a quantifiable number someone can look at. I never said it would be quick. Someone would obviously have to look at a weapon and do the math. Like I said previously, Would it take time? Yes. Is it difficult? No, not really.

Not difficult but tedious and unnecessary.

Although they would have to at some point to bring some level of balance to the game

[Fenrir121]

Just now, (PS4)caffinated_flame said:

Not difficult but tedious and unnecessary.

Although they would have to at some point to bring some level of balance to the game

I agree to disagree on your first point. On the second this game is already a handful of years old. Balance is required.

[Jax_Cavalera]

Identified a good issue rivens were meant to fix. Doesn't provide enough control to solve the problem as others have pointed out. My preference is to target the very real and valid issue you raise..and fix the broken system that was meant to deal with it in the first place. Rivens + Kuva

Main reason i prefer rivens for this are players get more creative freedom if done right. With this it is just more DE shoehorning players to use weapons how they want not how we want

Edited August 2, 2019 by Jax_Cavalera

[Midas]

14 hours ago, Fenrir121 said:

Just what it says on the tin. Now I don't mean making a weapon overpowered, obviously there'd have to be a balance and a diminishing return on the effect. It could be as little as a .5 increase. However there are a lot of weapons in Warframe and only about ten that are good (hyperbole). I'd like to have a reason to pull some of my old weapons out of the dust and use them again. As it stands now some weapons are completely worthless at higher level difficulties and you're locked into certain set ups, which for a game with this much customization seems a bit like a slap in the face. I know there are Rivens, but that doesn't exactly hit the spot and its so RNG its not even funny (yes I'm aware you can trade them).

Anyway that's just my two cents. I'm not a dev or anything so I may be ignorant to the challenges this presents, just think it would be a nice feature that would give me something to do with my time.

sounds cool but rivens were intended to do that, they were simply executed horribly :/. This would be rivens 2.0

Edited August 2, 2019 by Midas

[Tiltskillet]

9 hours ago, Jax_Cavalera said:

Identified a good issue rivens were meant to fix. Doesn't provide enough control to solve the problem as others have pointed out. My preference is to target the very real and valid issue you raise..and fix the broken system that was meant to deal with it in the first place. Rivens + Kuva

Main reason i prefer rivens for this are players get more creative freedom if done right. With this it is just more DE shoehorning players to use weapons how they want not how we want

A totally reasonable stand.  I just think we're stuck with rivens pretty much as they are.  

If so, a system to advance one's favorite weapons existing alongside rivens could be a really good thing.  Ideally it would...

• Emphasize slow, steady progression.  Rather than the randomness of rivens or the unpredictability of advanced versions.
• Focus on bringing up lower tiers of weapons closer to the highest tiers.  Rather than power creeping everything indiscriminately.
• Probably be divorced or mostly divorced from trading.

 

[Fenrir121]

4 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

A totally reasonable stand.  I just think we're stuck with rivens pretty much as they are.  

If so, a system to advance one's favorite weapons existing alongside rivens could be a really good thing.  Ideally it would...

• Emphasize slow, steady progression.  Rather than the randomness of rivens or the unpredictability of advanced versions.
• Focus on bringing up lower tiers of weapons closer to the highest tiers.  Rather than power creeping everything indiscriminately.
• Probably be divorced or mostly divorced from trading.

 

This is more or less what I want, the forma was just a ballpark idea. There just needs to be something to make it so weapons aren't essentially consigned to the garbage bin.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Fenrir121

[Jax_Cavalera]

1 hour ago, Fenrir121 said:

There just needs to be something to make it so weapons aren't essentially consigned to the garbage bin

See this is what I think we are all wanting and what a number of players (and maybe DE as well) were hoping rivens would solve 😞

The approach may not be on point but the underlying reason and thought behind it is spot on with what the game needs right now.

Please if you get a chance, take a look at: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1109953-proposed-rework-rivens-and-kuva/ it's clearly not a good fit either but just another approach to deal with this issue.

I would love to have a more generalised topic where like-minded players can brainstorm together to come up with something that is reasonable and easy to implement that can properly address this issue in an acceptable way by the community at large.

Maybe if it starts under the Fan Concepts section and once we get something solid together it can go as a proposal in here or wherever in feedback it best fits?

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Jax_Cavalera

[Fenrir121]

3 minutes ago, Jax_Cavalera said:

See this is what I think we are all wanting and what a number of players (and maybe DE as well) were hoping rivens would solve 😞

The approach may not be on point but the underlying reason and thought behind it is spot on with what the game needs right now.

Please if you get a chance, take a look at: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1109953-proposed-rework-rivens-and-kuva/ it's clearly not a good fit either but just another approach to deal with this issue.

I would love to have a more generalised topic where like-minded players can brainstorm together to come up with something that is reasonable and easy to implement that can properly address this issue in an acceptable way by the community at large.

Maybe if it starts under the Fan Concepts section and once we get something solid together it can go as a proposal in here or wherever in feedback it best fits?

 

That's not a bad idea at all.

[Jax_Cavalera]

2 minutes ago, Fenrir121 said:

That's not a bad idea at all.

Happy for you to create the topic as you created this one and kinda got the ball rolling on getting like minded people together 🙂  or I can create it happy either way.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

It's actually a good idea, but most people in this forum just yell "OPP AAARRRRHHHHH HELP ME" before they even check their math.  

So just go to Reddit, you'll probably have a better time there. And since mods don't care at all for the suggestions in the forums (it's like a consensus here, it's not even my claim), you won't lose anything.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

On 2019-08-01 at 1:25 PM, (XB1)KayAitch said:

How about Stat Forma - like Umbra Forma this would be rare, event/nightwave locked stuff. Nobody's getting more than about 1 of these per 4 months.

Stat Forma would let you boost 1 stat and then re-level the weapon. You could pick the stat, but the amount is % of the base - this keeps the weapon personality (and stops meme builds like high crit % Nukor and the like).

Some balancing would be required, but 10% seems reasonable (though it might need to be higher for stats like reload and lower for crit or status %)

However, this would also add +1 MR to the weapon's requirement, and if that's more than your current MR you can't apply it.

This would create a small incentive to rank MR, keep weapons at a power level appropriate to their MR, but godlike weapons would be hard to create.

So, take an MR4 weapon, but 4 Stat Forma on it, the result would be about MR8 with comparable stats. You could also take an MR14 weapon and make it MR18, but that's over a year invested in one weapon.

I like this one, except the MR idea. MR should just be removed and that's it, your idea will be perfect.  

I would even go as far to assume that the majority doesn't even like the MR system, and a super powerful system to increase weapon effectiveness would make them like it even less.  

 

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

TBH, i created this now, and i think it would be better (because overall % stats increase would be a mess to balance):

1- You can put a Signature mod on the weapon of choice. 

2- Every weapon, after reaching lvl 30 and get formaed at least 1 time, will unlock Signature mod slot (s). 

3- That mod slot is essentianlly for mods meant ONLY for that weapon, and they don't have capacity. 

4- The Signature slot ranges from Rivens for the weapon to rare mods made exclusively for this weapon. 

5- Every time you spend 1 forma on the weapon you'll have 2 choices: change mod polarity, or increased signature mod potential (with a limit of 3 times). 

Ex: I have my Galatine (the basic one), and it has a signature mod that increases it's range by 0,5m for every combo multiplier, but it's lvl 0. If i sacrifice my forma to increase the potential of the mod slot (yes, so you won't have to spend for every mod), it will go to +1m for every combo multiplier. That's of course just an hypotetical example. 

Signature mod slots will range from 1 to 3. So stronger weapons have less mod options, but stronger overall stats, and weaker ones get more options but less raw power. Easier to balance.

Edited August 4, 2019 by (XB1)XG1anBl4derX

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

Right now we mostly just need a mod pass, a full system wide overhaul of how mods across the board function. They've done weapon balancing, they're currently doing melee balancing. we need a mod rebalance across the board, it's way past time because way too many of them are "mandatory" and way too many of the others are "irrelevant" because they've been around so long that they were part of a game that no longer exists... Thunderbolt and concealed explosives. once incredible mods. now trash because we've moved past their relevance.