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Being a Vet Sucks.


(PSN)sweatshawp
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17 minutes ago, Talonflight said:

I'm sorry, this is absolute and utter tripe, and I'm frankly ashamed as a gamer to read this.

 

Prove me wrong than. I can point you to countless topics on countless games where vets claim that they know better than devs what to do with their game even when said games crack higher and higher numbers. No matter what is announced they first have unrealistic hopes and then complain because they didnt get what they wanted, every fkn time. Every little bit of new content they see as chores because princess already has everything and cant be f'ed to do some missions but still feel entitled to the rewards, but will do those chores anyway because he has nothing better to do anyway. Just check any forum in any game. This is the case everywhere. 

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38 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Prove me wrong than

I can't speak for other games, but warframe was complete and utter trash that was seen as another 2012 free to play gimmick that was never going to go anywhere. Without the people who stuck with the game and believed that it could be a game that people would take seriously, without vets, the people who have stuck with the game even through the times when the game was hot garabage, you wouldn't even be having this conversation. You owe it to vets for keeping the game alive when no one else believed in it. Because without vets, you wouldn't even be talking about this game, you would be on some other forum talking about how useless veterans are.

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On 2019-08-02 at 1:53 PM, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

I got a rebuttal for pretty much anything you'd say to me about not being proud to be a Vet in a game I once loved

Veteran players in any game or even in professional scenarios bring something unique to the table.. experience. They've seen things change over time, they know the cycles, etc.  With all this knowledge comes an important and valuable responsibility.. to teach, train and help other newer players out. Vets are the life-force of any thriving community. If that type of thing isn't for you, then I guess you may have missed the point about being a Vet. Life isn't always about what I can get out of everything around me like a vampire or leech, it is about what I can give back.. that balance and exchange.

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On 2019-08-02 at 6:14 PM, kuciol said:

I have maybe the most controversial opinion on that. The best thing to happen to a game would be veterans just leaving. Honestly you bring nothing but spite. Anything devs do you look for something to be unhappy with and start your forums crusade again. You act like you deserve something just because you wasted more time in a game and think thats achievement or something. You are not special. Thats true in any game sadly. You just cant admit that you are bored and the only things that keep you playing are attachment to something you do for a long time and friends / clan mates. Nothing a game will do will satisfy you. On top of that is the hardest pill to swallow, you are less valuable then new player, you already have everything while new player is potential new profit. Thats just harsh reality of things. Im not someone that likes to sugarcoat so it may seem a little cynical but thats just how i see it. Ive seen this pattern to many times in to many games for that to be wrong.

It's human nature to prefer complaining over praising. IIRC it's a rule of thumb to multiply the number of negative opinions by 5 in order to find out how many people actually like your new thing. Vets also look like they complain more because they're more invested in the game. If a new player doesn't like an aspect of the game, they're far more likely to just leave and find another game than they are to try and discuss it on a forum. The thing about vets is that despite them more frequently criticising the game, they're also actually playing it and spending money; they criticise aspects of the game because they actually want to keep playing the game and want to make it better. The key thing about criticism is it improves the game, it allows DE to look at what players want and implement it, instead of guessing.

Even if it seems like people are eternally unhappy with the game, the reality of the situation is that they're still willing to play it and spend money on it. If you think that people asking for improvements to the game on a separate forum is actually hurting the game then you probably need to pay less attention to the forums.

One other thing: do you think that actively saying "players who care a lot about this game should leave" is a healthy mindset for attracting new players? If you saw a progression-based game that had a big warning saying "after you play for long enough you should stop playing", would you feel like that's something worth spending time in, compared to something that commits to providing enjoyment for as long as possible?

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2 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

One other thing: do you think that actively saying "players who care a lot about this game should leave" is a healthy mindset for attracting new players? If you saw a progression-based game that had a big warning saying "after you play for long enough you should stop playing", would you feel like that's something worth spending time in, compared to something that commits to providing enjoyment for as long as possible?

Thats where you are wrong. They no longer care for a game, they just cant live without something that they did for a very long time. Yes if you played long  enough you should leave. Games are just that, games, time wasters. If you no longer have fun its time to move on. You act like its something to be proud of when it isnt.

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10 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Thats where you are wrong. They no longer care for a game, they just cant live without something that they did for a very long time. Yes if you played long  enough you should leave. Games are just that, games, time wasters. If you no longer have fun its time to move on. You act like its something to be proud of when it isnt.

They clearly care enough to spend time on a forum talking about every new release. The thing about the "fun" factor of a game like Warframe is that there's the "fun" that comes from the raw gameplay, and then there's the enjoyment of achieving goals within the game's progression. Just because someone has played enough that the simple act of shooting hordes of enemies is no longer as enjoyable, it doesn't mean that they're not still enjoying the overall experience of unlocking new things, which Warframe has a very large and varied selection of. However, if a new gameplay system isn't enjoyable enough to justify its rewards, then it's easy to burn out on it and veterans have a problem.

As long as the game is offering new things to complete, then veterans will stick around to engage in it. I'd say that the vast majority of forum posts about veterans leaving the game aren't about not liking the game anymore, they're about running out of interesting content to complete.

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17 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

They clearly care enough to spend time on a forum talking about every new release. The thing about the "fun" factor of a game like Warframe is that there's the "fun" that comes from the raw gameplay, and then there's the enjoyment of achieving goals within the game's progression. Just because someone has played enough that the simple act of shooting hordes of enemies is no longer as enjoyable, it doesn't mean that they're not still enjoying the overall experience of unlocking new things, which Warframe has a very large and varied selection of. However, if a new gameplay system isn't enjoyable enough to justify its rewards, then it's easy to burn out on it and veterans have a problem.

As long as the game is offering new things to complete, then veterans will stick around to engage in it. I'd say that the vast majority of forum posts about veterans leaving the game aren't about not liking the game anymore, they're about running out of interesting content to complete.

Yeah and thats where unrealistic expectations kick in and its back to complaining. Its clear that a lot of them no longer enjoy anything about the game and stick around only because they are used to it. For them its like changing a job after 10 years. They look for an ancor to keep them invested, they dont care about the game itself. They fight hard the fact that they got bored of the game they used to enjoy.

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The problem I have here is that it shows pretty clearly the Devs still don't take seriously or want to understand the problem of people complaining about warframe being too easy, especially when there are tons of people whining daily about how it's too hard.  This is because they don't understand how to balance the gameplay reward loop vs monetization after all these years to a place where players are happy, or perhaps, that there is outside pressure from their publishers in China, either way, it ends up being a very crappy experience for players.

Here's the thing... Dog Days WAS indeed a great bit of fun... for four missions... however, grinding out 2000+ peals with the current rewards system to obtain some silly cosmetic items that have literally no bearing on gameplay and a few trash mods that maybe five people will find useful, well... guess what, that means if TONS of people are using that exploit that it's PREFERABLE to your designed gameplay loop AND THAT IS THE CORE PROBLEM.

Like everything else, DE will band aid the situation rather than addressing the core issue, which is to either lower the cost, or incentivise the intended gameplay loop to a point where it feels rewarding, which is what many people did... by suggesting kills grant pearls, which is entirely reasonable.

You don't get to pin this on the players DE, that's bad PR, it's your game, your problem, and this has all the problems as the ooblets announcement for Epic, it completely has an important issue to address, but does it in a way that completely ignores legitimate issues and antagonizes the fanbase.  It's crappy. 

Players have legitimate reasons to be frustrated with you and your failure to provide rewarding endgame content of any kind for literally YEARS at this point. 

To be very clear, because of your insane requirements for grind for silly cosmetic items, YOU AND YOU ALONE are responsible for this.  You failed to code it correctly, and you failed to create a rewarding gameplay loop AND YOU put out a half baked event with an exploit and expected people to do what you wanted, which is grind for HOURS on end in a repetitive to death gameplay loop, rather than what they wanted, which was to earn rewards at a reasonable rate. 

To be honest, this is why I really have come to have straight up IRE for DE at this point.  You guys are, each year, eating up more and more good will that you earned in the early days, in exchange for the scummy bussiness practices of EA, Activision and other predatory companies.  I know you've taken some steps to avoid that by trying to please players... like removing random lootbox mods... BUT HOW MANY YEARS DID PEOPLE HAVE TO COMPLAIN BEFORE YOU STOPPED THAT?  Did it happen in a timely fashion, years ago when people first complained about it, or did it happen right around the time that lootboxes started getting governmental bannings that would keep your game out of certain countries?

People have legitimate problems with your game DE.  That's real.

There are real and serious problems to address.

I can and have historically supported the company financially in the past even though I literally need nothing in the game because I have everything for the core gameplay experience... I have done so to the extent where I've spent many, many more dollars than the average player, but this is legitimately the breaking point for me at this point.  From here on out, until I see significant improvement in your care for dealing with these core issues, you will not be seeing any more money from me personally.

To be clear, this isn't the "ONE BIG THING" this is the straw that broke the camels back after literally years of negligence on your part.

Further, I predict, if you guys continue down this road, while I am not the first and certainly won't be the last to make such a proclomation, I believe this problem will start getting worse. 

The gameplay landscape is changing as a whole and people are truly getting fed up with developers and publisher's nonsense.  Even your own long standing youtube partners, many of them are off doing other games entirely because you can't maintain the good will you used to while also seeking to siphon players of their time and money rather than just making a good game.

That's it for DE.  Now for the White knights that defend DE no matter what:  That's cute.  You'll grow out of that once you hit the wall of years of content drought and recognize the game is built on promises and dreams, rather than actual content releases, BY STEVE'S OWN WORDS, which is something most of us knew, but it sure was nice to have his confirmation.  The game, like all other scummy publisher games, is built on hype, not content.

If DE doesn't correct course, they will eventually end up just like EA, Activision, Bethesda and all the other publishers that have rightfully earned the ire of those that once supported them.

WAKE UP DE.  

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3 hours ago, kuciol said:

Yeah and thats where unrealistic expectations kick in and its back to complaining. Its clear that a lot of them no longer enjoy anything about the game and stick around only because they are used to it. For them its like changing a job after 10 years. They look for an ancor to keep them invested, they dont care about the game itself. They fight hard the fact that they got bored of the game they used to enjoy.

Most of us still love wf very much?? And like he said were not bored we want the best for the game but hey man everyone thinks differently 

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10 hours ago, Gofretko said:

I don't owe you anything. Get over your ego and go achieve something real in your life.

Respect is not demanded, it's earned.

I never understood this. Most of us have real lives and we’re not some 24/7 warframe goblin I work full time have a girlfriend and a pretty awesome life outside of warframe... I “complain” because I want wf to be the best game out here not some cheap half baked project. I complain because my section of the community has no representation or voice and we get no sort of content to keep us here... just because we’re complaining doesn’t mean we don’t care. We care about wf way more then you dweebs telling us to leave do 

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9 hours ago, Jax_Cavalera said:

Veteran players in any game or even in professional scenarios bring something unique to the table.. experience. They've seen things change over time, they know the cycles, etc.  With all this knowledge comes an important and valuable responsibility.. to teach, train and help other newer players out. Vets are the life-force of any thriving community. If that type of thing isn't for you, then I guess you may have missed the point about being a Vet. Life isn't always about what I can get out of everything around me like a vampire or leech, it is about what I can give back.. that balance and exchange.

Being a vet is about giving back to the community but in turn the community shouldn’t turn its back On the vets like most of the people in the forums do whenever vets daunt something they don’t like. Telling us to leave or we’re not welcome because we don’t fit in with the agenda or what others like. All the vets who taught me left because they said the community was toxic a year ago. In shock it took it as a joke and it’s sad to say they were right. This community that we help dosent want us unless we can only help. They don’t want our suggestions our opinions or us in general if we don’t fit the status Qi of wf in their minds. That is sad. And if you feel like we should just leave I’m sad for you

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Alright a lot of people are assuming I’m addicted to warframe or something also... Which I’m not. I’ve invested my time in many other games and such I didn’t JUST play warframe I had and still have a real life I enjoy very much. But warframe being a game I love I’m always willing to offer some sort of constructive feedback to what’s I believe can make the game better ie the endgame sucking.(lack of) being a vet is no different then being a regular player, there is no real reason or need for half the mods (more then) in the game. Things like that. But it gets constantly overshadowed by “leave we don’t care” no vet or shall I say most players on these forums “complaining and whining” cause we hate the game or we have no lives. We Want to push warframe to be and do better. Everyone scoffing and dismissing someone’s suggestions and being snark and rude about it is the issue. You’re the toxicity that lies within warframe. Not wanting change and allowing things to always run without question because it’s a “free game like no other” “or DE said they’d release this” you guys need to leave warframe and grow up. Stop blindly assuming negative criticism or a differing opinion is hate. Learn to be productive on both ends.

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29 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Alright a lot of people are assuming I’m addicted to warframe or something also... Which I’m not. I’ve invested my time in many other games and such I didn’t JUST play warframe I had and still have a real life I enjoy very much. But warframe being a game I love I’m always willing to offer some sort of constructive feedback to what’s I believe can make the game better ie the endgame sucking.(lack of) being a vet is no different then being a regular player, there is no real reason or need for half the mods (more then) in the game. Things like that. But it gets constantly overshadowed by “leave we don’t care” no vet or shall I say most players on these forums “complaining and whining” cause we hate the game or we have no lives. We Want to push warframe to be and do better. Everyone scoffing and dismissing someone’s suggestions and being snark and rude about it is the issue. You’re the toxicity that lies within warframe. Not wanting change and allowing things to always run without question because it’s a “free game like no other” “or DE said they’d release this” you guys need to leave warframe and grow up. Stop blindly assuming negative criticism or a differing opinion is hate. Learn to be productive on both ends.

BS! Just check these forums. Most of those so called "improvements" revolve around bringing back something that already failed (void keys, raid) or trying to change WF into something completely different then it is (hard bossfights). Everything else is just plain, stupid complaining. You disregard that vast majority of players dont want anything to do with your so called endgame, nobody want to play "hard" content with forced coop. Making something to those few is just a waste. You tend to slam something just because it isnt what you expected and nothing more, you label it as "chores" because game asks you to be played. Just check topics about nightwave to see what im talking about or if you want something older check the sacrifice topic. Many "veterans" contributed nothing, some didnt even send a bug report. I can respect somebody like Brozime for example because he does something for the comunity  but if you think that many vets are like this then you are daydreaming.

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41 minutes ago, kuciol said:

BS! Just check these forums. Most of those so called "improvements" revolve around bringing back something that already failed (void keys, raid) or trying to change WF into something completely different then it is (hard bossfights). Everything else is just plain, stupid complaining. You disregard that vast majority of players dont want anything to do with your so called endgame, nobody want to play "hard" content with forced coop. Making something to those few is just a waste. You tend to slam something just because it isnt what you expected and nothing more, you label it as "chores" because game asks you to be played. Just check topics about nightwave to see what im talking about or if you want something older check the sacrifice topic. Many "veterans" contributed nothing, some didnt even send a bug report. I can respect somebody like Brozime for example because he does something for the comunity  but if you think that many vets are like this then you are daydreaming.

What you fail to realize is we don’t disregard anyone or in many cases want to force anything down any bodies throats. Many times we ask for something that we can have for ourselves since “vets are such a small portion of the community” if that’s the case why are we being singled out for it. Many of us do read the bug fixes and offer plenty viable and sound options and or suggestions and even if not sound most if not all of us are welcome to improvement upon or op you all fail to realize that and again want to single us out like we’re trying to exclude you guys from what is already primarily for the casual audience. We just want our own things to do and don’t care if you want to indulge on many occasions 

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45 minutes ago, kuciol said:

BS! Just check these forums. Most of those so called "improvements" revolve around bringing back something that already failed (void keys, raid) or trying to change WF into something completely different then it is (hard bossfights). Everything else is just plain, stupid complaining. You disregard that vast majority of players dont want anything to do with your so called endgame, nobody want to play "hard" content with forced coop. Making something to those few is just a waste. You tend to slam something just because it isnt what you expected and nothing more, you label it as "chores" because game asks you to be played. Just check topics about nightwave to see what im talking about or if you want something older check the sacrifice topic. Many "veterans" contributed nothing, some didnt even send a bug report. I can respect somebody like Brozime for example because he does something for the comunity  but if you think that many vets are like this then you are daydreaming.

And also do you send in bug reports? Are you a QA tester for wf? We don’t have to submit big reports to offer suggestions m8 and nightwave is another thing tailored for the casual audience. It would make sense if you would have said eso or Arby’s but hey go off I guess. We “slam”things because yes we are disappointed and believe de can do better and be the great company you all hold them to. 

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2 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

And also do you send in bug reports? Are you a QA tester for wf? We don’t have to submit big reports to offer suggestions m8 and nightwave is another thing tailored for the casual audience. It would make sense if you would have said eso or Arby’s but hey go off I guess. We “slam”things because yes we are disappointed and believe de can do better and be the great company you all hold them to. 

Dude just look at your own post. You throw a tantrum over a game, call others "manbabies" and then demand respect? You refuse to even aknowladge the fact that game is casual and will be made for casuals . Arbitrations were also made easier because more players wanted it that way.  You expect something that will never happen. I dare to say tridolon is as hard as it will ever get. You will see.

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I agree being a vet sucks. But the trick to being a vet is to help when asked and expect nothing in return. The occasional gratitude is the icing on the cake.

If you only crave recognition because of your experience, I'm afraid that you will end up very unhappy indeed. it is true for all life experiences.

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40 minutes ago, Jax_Cavalera said:

You know what i love to do when I want more of a challenge?  I take of a few mods. It seems crazy as a notion but it actually works.. the enemies and content get way harder.. DE don't even need to nerf stuff.

So much this, to much challange and a large percentage of players will be frustrated and stop playing, not enough challange? Try out some fun builds, remove your Rivens, stop using meta equipment, etc.

29 minutes ago, ligonare said:

I agree being a vet sucks. But the trick to being a vet is to help when asked and expect nothing in return. The occasional gratitude is the icing on the cake.

If you only crave recognition because of your experience, I'm afraid that you will end up very unhappy indeed. it is true for all life experiences.

Mostly agree, except it sucking, I love beeing a vet, except while on the forums...

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1 hour ago, kuciol said:

Dude just look at your own post. You throw a tantrum over a game, call others "manbabies" and then demand respect? You refuse to even aknowladge the fact that game is casual and will be made for casuals . Arbitrations were also made easier because more players wanted it that way.  You expect something that will never happen. I dare to say tridolon is as hard as it will ever get. You will see.

“I throw a tantrum “ I only come on here every now and then to express my view on things  because apparently I just like complaining about something i supposedly don’t care about ( if me or most of the vets didn’t care we wouldn’t be making these forum post bro) and   because of that I’m a man baby. And you said “more players wanted it easier” yet nobody asked for the current state and more people then ever are asking for Arby’s to be reverted/ changed 

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1 hour ago, Jax_Cavalera said:

You know what i love to do when I want more of a challenge?  I take of a few mods. It seems crazy as a notion but it actually works.. the enemies and content get way harder.. DE don't even need to nerf stuff.

I’ve done that and it’s still the same as presenting an actual challenge I’ve been about 45-1hour+ into mot bare and modeless runs most missions outside of that and I can say it becomes more of a Gimmick thing then an actual challenge. You start to also see a lot of stages where you don’t require your build at all and your just like ... wow that’s it???.

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1 hour ago, ligonare said:

I agree being a vet sucks. But the trick to being a vet is to help when asked and expect nothing in return. The occasional gratitude is the icing on the cake.

If you only crave recognition because of your experience, I'm afraid that you will end up very unhappy indeed. it is true for all life experiences.

I don’t crave recognition at all. I’m saying it sucks because in many regards it feels like it’s not a point to playing the game for an extended period of time like any other game designed to keep you playing and give you that vet title. Yes I had fun these 3+ years of wf but there is nothing to show of it 

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