[Spoiler?] How are warframes controlled?

[SlitherBlade]

For starters: Hi! First time showing my face around here and I hope my stay is pleasant =>

We all know by now that our frames are controlled by our Operators, but how exactly? I might have missed something so I'll ask you guys (since every time I google the results are from before the operators came around.

So, to the point. Are warframes being commanded by our operators or do our guys straight up control them muscle by muscle as if they're using the frames like their bodies? If so, shouldn't some of the frame's movements transfer over to our operators like muscle memory?

I'm personally split on this since from the presence of melee stances (even if they're simply a game mechanic), it makes it seem like the warframes are essentially being told what to do instead of them being fully possessed, yet on the other hand they (with the exception of umbra) go limp every time we transfer out of them. I feel like we'll have definite answers with the Duviri Paradox when we're using our adult operators (if we use the same or even similar movements to our warframes or not).

What do you guys thing about this?
 

[Chewarette]

By transference, we're not physically inside the Warframes.

Have you done all the lore-quests ? At least The War Within ?

[DeMonkey]

6 minutes ago, SlitherBlade said:

We all know by now that our frames are controlled by our Operators, but how exactly?

Somatic link, aka "body link".

Based on this term it's reasonable to assume that we directly control the body, as opposed to simply instructing the Warframe what to do, as that would be more of a "mind link".

7 minutes ago, SlitherBlade said:

yet on the other hand they (with the exception of umbra) go limp every time we transfer out of them.

This is no longer the case, post War Within. If anything the frame goes completely rigid, the complete opposite of limp. It could of course just be for aesthetic purposes, however I'd like to think that the fact that the frame remains standing, fists clenched, shows that it (or you, of course) retains some control over it's body. This is not a position that you naturally fall into, you have to actively hold the stance.

[Loza03]

10 minutes ago, SlitherBlade said:

do our guys straight up control them muscle by muscle as if they're using the frames like their bodies? If so, shouldn't some of the frame's movements transfer over to our operators like muscle memory?

This one. The frames are being full-body possessed by the Operators. They've been trained for years (probably a lot longer than we think due to the long dream and Orokin medicine making 'young' for that era likely much older than for us) and many of their frames were made from the greatest soldiers in their universe. There is some muscle memory from the frames, most likely, but the Operators seem to keep it - just like how they keep Umbra's memories.

They aren't technically in the Warframe physically, but they are spiritually if that makes any sense.

[SlitherBlade]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

This is no longer the case, post War Within. If anything the frame goes completely rigid, the complete opposite of limp. It could of course just be for aesthetic purposes, however I'd like to think that the fact that the frame remains standing, fists clenched, shows that it (or you, of course) retains some control over it's body. This is not a position that you naturally fall into, you have to actively hold the stance.

Oh, weird. Sometimes while Eidolon Hunting I see frames from my teammates falling down on their knees like in the recent trailer, perhaps that's a bug then

 

6 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

By transference, we're not physically inside the Warframes.

Have you done all the lore-quests ? At least The War Within ?

I know we're not physically inside the frames, of course. I didn't even suggest that. how did you come up with the conclusion that I did?

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, SlitherBlade said:

Oh, weird. Sometimes while Eidolon Hunting I see frames from my teammates falling down on their knees like in the recent trailer, perhaps that's a bug then

 

Common bug yeah. Frame is regularly Excalibur and... headless, iirc.

It's the pre-War Withing state where you'd pop out and shoot a lazer from your chest as the frame collapsed.

[SlitherBlade]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

Common bug yeah. Frame is regularly Excalibur and... headless, iirc.

It's the pre-War Withing state where you'd pop out and shoot a lazer from your chest as the frame collapsed.

In that case maybe too many people go eidolon hunting when they're still in their iron man state (chest lasers)

[Springlake]

53 minutes ago, SlitherBlade said:

For starters: Hi! First time showing my face around here and I hope my stay is pleasant =>

We all know by now that our frames are controlled by our Operators, but how exactly? I might have missed something so I'll ask you guys (since every time I google the results are from before the operators came around.

So, to the point. Are warframes being commanded by our operators or do our guys straight up control them muscle by muscle as if they're using the frames like their bodies? If so, shouldn't some of the frame's movements transfer over to our operators like muscle memory?

I'm personally split on this since from the presence of melee stances (even if they're simply a game mechanic), it makes it seem like the warframes are essentially being told what to do instead of them being fully possessed, yet on the other hand they (with the exception of umbra) go limp every time we transfer out of them. I feel like we'll have definite answers with the Duviri Paradox when we're using our adult operators (if we use the same or even similar movements to our warframes or not).

What do you guys thing about this?
 

So, the human body is a pretty amazing thing.

When we go to sleep, especially during REM sleep, the body "blocks" alot of the signals from the brain to the muscles to basically keep us paralysed, but the signals and impulses fired off the the brain and still the exact same as if we were awake. 

Now the idea, as I've understood it, is that basically the body of the operator is completely relaxed (and/or basically paralysed) while those signals in the brain are still registered and "transfered" (get it?) to the second body while you are in the somatic link. (There's a reason we have a bunch of somatic implants all over our heads after all, and also why it's Transference is called a lucid dream.)

Whether the relaxation of the original body is something achieved through technology or mentally is pretty unanswered.

[SlitherBlade]

1 minute ago, Springlake said:

So, the human body is a pretty amazing thing.

When we go to sleep, especially during REM sleep, the body "blocks" alot of the signals from the brain to the muscles to basically keep us paralysed, but the signals and impulses fired off the the brain and still the exact same as if we were awake. 

Now the idea, as I've understood it, is that basically the body of the operator is completely relaxed (and/or basically paralysed) while those signals in the brain are still registered and "transfered" (get it?) to the second body while you are in the somatic link. (There's a reason we have a bunch of somatic implants all over our heads after all, and also why it's Transference is called a lucid dream.)

Whether the relaxation of the original body is something achieved through technology or mentally is pretty unanswered.

I get that operators are controlling the warframes with their minds while the body remains limp, but my question was: command or full possession?

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

I like to think of it as full-body VR.

[Springlake]

7 hours ago, SlitherBlade said:

I get that operators are controlling the warframes with their minds while the body remains limp, but my question was: command or full possession?

The end of Second Dream certinaly hints at the operators being so deep under they actually thought they actually were the warframes themselves.

Post War Within? Who knows, could be either, could be both, could be neither but something completely else entirely.

[(XBOX)UpgradeAcorn989]

13 hours ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

I like to think of it as full-body VR.

well that´s an intresting perspective

[NuttyNuti]

On 2019-08-02 at 11:29 PM, Springlake said:

The end of Second Dream certinaly hints at the operators being so deep under they actually thought they actually were the warframes themselves.

Post War Within? Who knows, could be either, could be both, could be neither but something completely else entirely.

Post War Within, there are also indications that the Operator still feels like they ARE the Warframe they were operating. This is evidenced as they frequently mistake Umbra's memories as their own experiences and need to correct themselves.

My (not-well proven) theory is that there happens some kind of "mind meld" when the Operator pilots a Warframe, ie. the consciousness that pilots the Warframe is actually a kind of fused consiousness that is part the Operator and part Warframe. Best equivalent I could come up with would be fusions in Steven Universe; a new (temporary) being is formed and it takes the component beings as its material and it disappears when the beings separate again. Hence, what controls the actions of the Warframe is actually a hybrid being of the two, and both parties feel that they are this fusion being. Who does it appear that the Operator does the piloting? Because we know little about the exact personalities of either, so we have harder time to pick up what parts of the expressed personality are from the Operator and what are from the Warframes. Warframe personalities may be mostly directed from their idle animations and such I think.

Operators mistaking themselves as Warframes prior The Second Dream makes all sense; "This is my hand, I wave it, and this is a Warframe hand, and all my hands and legs and head are parts of a Warframe, so hence I must be a Warframe".

[DrMegavolt]

There's no clear canon answer, but from all my reading about the game, I'll try and explain how I think it most probably works as best I can. To do so though, I'll have to go into how Tenno work a little bit, or at least my educated guess as to that.

Tenno were once what we would call human. Flesh and blood, cells and DNA. Within them, like all humans, they bore what we might call a soul, a structure of possibly-transdimensional energy patterns that encoded their consciousness. The Orokin used the technology we know as Oro to store these "souls" and move them from one body to another through Continuity, using Kuva to "prime" the host body for consciousness implantation. However, when the Zariman 10-0 experienced a catastrophic Solar Rail failure and was cast adrift in the Void, this had an unexpected side effect on the to-be Tenno. For reasons unknown, their consciousness, their soul, was somehow bonded with Void energy, fundamentally altering the nature of their existence. It was unclear at first what exactly had changed, but it seems the Tenno gained the ability to connect with the minds of other beings, even subsentient robots, and even merge with them in some cases. They also seem to have gained the ability to focus the Void energy bound within them into destructive forces wielded as a weapon, or to shift themselves slightly into the Void and go unseen. However, it's not until The War Within that we get the first clear idea of what the Tenno truly are now, and not until the Sacrifice and other subsequent quests that we learn much further. To cut a long and convoluted story short, the Tenno appear to be part-energy beings, still resident in the plane of existence we know as the material universe, but no longer entirely bound to it. Tenno have physical bodies that can be injured and killed, but it seems like said bodies are more of a material projection than anything, given that A: During and after the last segment of The War Within, we can shift in and out of our Warframes at will, most clearly illustrated in the cutscene on the Kuva Fortress, where our Operator materializes out of our Warframe's chest, after having literally teleported themselves there across hundreds of thousands of kilometers of empty space, from the Somatic Relay in the Orbiter. (it's worth noting as an aside here that, from studying the Tenno, the Orokin found a way to crudely replicate Tenno transference, and created the Somatic Relay from it. This device enabled any human who sat in it to use Transference, but only to a limited, clumsy extent, unlike the ease with which the Tenno could merge and unmerge with the souls of other beings.) B: During the War Within and the Sacrifice's Operator-only segments, dying will briefly show your Operator floating in the Void in a fetal position, before respawning. Now this may sound like grasping at straws here, given that it's ultimately a game mechanic, but I believe, given everything else we see and hear about Tenno, that this is actually a visualization of what would happen if a Tenno's physical form was actually killed - being part-energy beings, a fully-awakened Tenno would reincarnate into a new body after being "killed".

Now, as for Warframes, that's perhaps a bit simpler. Warframes are technically Human/Technocyte hybrids. (Technocyte being the name of the bio-mechanical blight that created the Infested; the Helminth in our Orbiter is another strain of Technocyte.) The Orokin originally made them independent of the Tenno, as biomechanical warriors to fight the Sentients. However, no matter how much the Orokin researchers drugged, tinkered, and tormented the prototypes, they could not control them - the prototype Warframes, overcome with unfathomable pain, anger, and confusion, simply lashed out at everything in sight. However, the Tenno, with their unique ability to connect to and merge with other beings, were able to join their mind to a Warframe's, and, as our old "friend" Ballas put it, take away their pain. How do Tenno actually control the Warframe? In short, when a Tenno transfers into a Warframe, their souls are essentially combined temporarily, essentially creating a new sort of being, more Tenno than Warframe in mind, but still unique. Basically, Transference allows a Tenno to become the Warframe, which, as Nutty mentioned above, explains how everything up until The Second Dream happened - the Tenno were in a deep, artificially-induced sleep in a suspension pod on the Moon, and effectively controlling their Warframe in a sort of lucid dream.

Hope this answers some of your questions.