Can something be done about Saryn?

[Cubewano]

54 minutes ago, Ikyr0 said:

I think a common theme is emerging here, or rather Waframe's true problem: it's just not a good coop game. "Just go play solo" is essentially you making excuses for DE's terribad game design. It's true, I actually do enjoy playing solo much more. So why is WF being marketed as a coop game? Why does it even have a coop component? Why are there so many anti-fun frames (for those not using them)?

More or less ^

Warframe has become less and less oriented towards co-operative play over the years as it let power balance regulations get looser and looser. At this point calling it a co-op shooter feels something of a farce, a relic from a bygone era.

[stormy505]

1 hour ago, Ikyr0 said:

I think a common theme is emerging here, or rather Waframe's true problem: it's just not a good coop game. "Just go play solo" is essentially you making excuses for DE's terribad game design. It's true, I actually do enjoy playing solo much more. So why is WF being marketed as a coop game? Why does it even have a coop component? Why are there so many anti-fun frames (for those not using them)?

If you don't like how pugs play, don't do pugs. Don't go into tridolon pugs expecting a meta composition, don't go into survival pugs expecting an endurance run. Don't go into any pug and expect every other player to adapt to your needs.

[bibmobello]

54 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I do this all the time as Ivara.  Heck, I intentionally go into group pub missions as Ivara to "Steal" the most damage stat.   If you see me using Artemis Bow, then more than likely that is exactly what I'm doing.   hehe.......Mwuhahahahahahaha.

 

I don't use artemis bow at all...

[DatDarkOne]

Just now, bibmobello said:

I don't use artemis bow at all...

I bring it out for times as I mentioned above or when something absolutely must DIE(like that time I had a lvl 100 Shadow Stalker spawn on me).  And since my normal general purpose Tenchu Assassin build has just over 200% Power Strength, that usually doesn't take long for whatever to DIE.  But outside of those two situations, I don't use Artemis that much myself either. 

[KIREEK]

On 2019-08-02 at 4:27 PM, MrRixter said:

I get what you mean but I'll just play a different game when I get to that point.

You are very near that point

Players will either tip into improving the gameplay, likely to keep playing, or will slow down to the point of afk, an ineficient type of gameplay that is based only on mission rewards, quite bad.

The only thing after afk is not to play the game anymore, you are already near that point.

I remind you that killing over the top is allowed, afk on the other hand isn't, so you better change things around or quit the game, because if you receive a warn, you will only get one and if history has told me so far, players with an afk warn will liklely quit the game, as soon they enter a game and they know they have to play but don't feel the mood, they complete the mission and then warframe no longer becomes a game they play.

Since you are complaining instead of changing things around, it means you have no desire or motivation to change, with that the only thing that will happen is the obvious quit.

Hope you enjoyed warframe, maybe you'll return later on with a new fresh motivation.

[Ham_Grenabe]

We’ve all been there. I came up during the Miragulor period, where one player killed everything and also damaged your hearing with weapon shrieks as an extra bonus. We hated it too.

Lots of us are gonna say “you gotta understand things better” and “I learned from my time as space janitor!” and other kinds of “well, actually,” but that’s all bullS#&$. The truth is we just became what we hated because it was easier.

It’s the nature of this game. 

[Cubewano]

Forgot to mention, Pablo himself (the guy who reworked Saryn the last time or I guess two times) did acknowledge he had plans to rework her again in the future as he wasn't proud of how his last rework left her off, so she'll maybe be changed one day. But that day could be far far away, DE are very hesitant towards downward balancing these days. 

[Ham_Grenabe]

19 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

...DE are very hesitant towards downward balancing these days. 

They need someone to muster the courage to do it, though. The bandaid’s gotta come off eventually, and the longer they wait, the more skin it’ll take with it.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Ham_Grenabe

[-NightmareMoon-]

Oh yeah saru

On 2019-08-02 at 9:13 AM, MrRixter said:

I'm a fairly new player and today I got matched with a Saryn at my sortie. It was the first time that I felt bored in the game. There was nothing for me to do, everything was dying instantly all over the map so I just went afk and made a cup of tea. Whats the point of me trying to improve my frames and get all the mods, arcanes etc, when a frame exists which can nuke the whole map with no effort at all? I apologise if I'm wrong but from what I saw was a Saryn barely even moving.

I feel quite deflated right now and confused on how something so broken is allowed to exist in the game. Bare in my mind I'm quite new so I'm not aware if there are other broken frames, its just this Saryn was the first one I saw.

oh yeah, Saryn is disgustingly OP. I have her and I dont even user because she is so brain dead and boring, I rather spare other people the boredness of doing nothing than use her.

everytime I see a Saryn I just leave the team, I go into a mission to play not being afk the whole time.

Edited August 4, 2019 by -NightmareMoon-

[Vortuna]

8 hours ago, o0Despair0o said:

Someday you'll wish you had a Saryn with you.

 

Believe me, the day will come.

Every time I had to level my stuff up to MR27, I prayed, and that happens only 20% of the time, and some of the rest consist of players bringing in unmodded weapons and/or warframes, taking about 10 minutes to clear 5 waves of Hydron before quitting.

I have a Saryn yet I can't level my own weapons and companions and require another saryn to help out. Yet we have these ungrateful bunch trying to kill the golden egg.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Vortuna

[kgabor]

29 minutes ago, Vortuna said:

Every time I had to level my stuff up to MR27, I prayed, and that happens only 20% of the time, and some of the rest consist of players bringing in unmodded weapons and/or warframes, taking about 10 minutes to clear 5 waves of Hydron before quitting.

I have a Saryn yet I can't level my own weapons and companions and require another saryn to help out. Yet we have these ungrateful bunch trying to kill the golden egg.

Have you tried bringing Sonar Banshee to Hydron to do this?

It will make the waves much faster and you don't have to rely on teammates's frame choice or broken frames carrying to level your weapons.

[BETAOPTICS]

Is Saryn the problem or the games mechanics and long time players with maxed out gear and the way the scaling works the problem? Go to end game and Saryn is good but not overpowered. Go to your average level 20-40 mission and almost any frame is overpowered, though to be fair some can just nuke outright while others can't. I do not necessarily think Saryn is the problem, rather it is how the scaling works exponentially in this game and to newer players this means that an older player can take out all the fun from their gameplay experience by simply having too much power in general for the mission. 

Problem is how to solve that issue? Should players be scaled down to match the content? In which case what would be the point of progression and leveling gear beyond a certain point if all it did was enable missions and after that point it would be a waste of time and energy. Limit who is matched with whom? Some playerbases would become awfully small even with relative levels. And what about forma? It would be power without limitation, or a useless tool regardless of circumstance. I think that the best way the game could try to address the underlying issue is to try to rebalance the core mechanics of the game, player and enemy scaling with power and levels.

[str4dlin]

hace 10 horas, Cubewano dijo:

I've been playing for over four years and all I've ever wished is for Saryn to go away. She's a hot mess of a design right now, incredibly damaging to co-operative play, and a symptom of a decaying game balance. 

Complete the phrase please. "I have been playing over 4 years and I ve not go out from casual content, my focus is to raise MR farming Hydron"

If you have been playing 4 years I cant belive you can't find difference between old and reworked Saryn, for example. Or we playing different games.

You ever tried to play she out from Hydron?

You have been playing 4 years I think you could give a more elaborated opinion if you have learn something about the game in the time. Or just walk around. 

Cry over cry.

Edited August 4, 2019 by str4dlin

[str4dlin]

hace 7 horas, Cubewano dijo:

Forgot to mention, Pablo himself (the guy who reworked Saryn the last time or I guess two times) did acknowledge he had plans to rework her again in the future as he wasn't proud of how his last rework left her off, so she'll maybe be changed one day. But that day could be far far away, DE are very hesitant towards downward balancing these days. 

Because content is going upwards. Wake up Tenno!

Balance is bring Atlas to life, not downgrade. And bring harder content. 

This is not a static game.

[Monolake]

11 hours ago, Ikyr0 said:

I think a common theme is emerging here, or rather Waframe's true problem: it's just not a good coop game. "Just go play solo" is essentially you making excuses for DE's terribad game design. It's true, I actually do enjoy playing solo much more. So why is WF being marketed as a coop game? Why does it even have a coop component? Why are there so many anti-fun frames (for those not using them)?

Yes and this had been brought up countless times as far as 5 years ago. And even the solution to this issue - dont make room-wide radial nukes. If everyone had directional attacks - just like weapons - then each of 4 people could enjoy the game killing enemies. Dont make spammable radial nukes - they only kill coop shooter gameplay (pressing ability once in a while to kill everything is not even gameplay, a script could do it, there is zero thought process, skill or fun, but it's efficient and players will inevitably 'optimize all the fun out of the game just to get the rewards since this is a farming game).

Did DE listen? No. Enjoy stagnating playerbase since most of the new players quit and 'vet' players get bored quickly when the 'meta' is anti-coop and anti-gameplay. Beating a dead horse here. DE wont fix anything, they'd rather make more enemies immune to abilities.

[Olphalarepth]

2 hours ago, Vortuna said:

Every time I had to level my stuff up to MR27, I prayed, and that happens only 20% of the time, and some of the rest consist of players bringing in unmodded weapons and/or warframes, taking about 10 minutes to clear 5 waves of Hydron before quitting.

I have a Saryn yet I can't level my own weapons and companions and require another saryn to help out. Yet we have these ungrateful bunch trying to kill the golden egg.

If you're MR 27 and you don't know how to level up every kind of weapon up to lv 30 in ....15 minutes max I dare to say you know very little of the game mechanics and Saryn is your go to frame because you can't handle the rest.

Sounds like an insult? Don't expect too much courtesy when you refer to players who don't agree with you as "ungrateful bunch".I own not a bloody thing to players who enjoys nuke frames, especially Saryn. I have NEVER stepped in Hydron to level up and, most likely, I have never run it with a party. I have my own way to super level stuff that doesn't involve LEECHING of one super frame that can clear enemies behind the walls in 3 seconds flat. If you don't get the problem I'll spell it out for you. We don't care how much "skill" you use when playing nuking frames. If it can clear a room with or without line of sight (and saryn just happens to be the biggest offender in this regard but she is not alone) dropping high level mobs in a handful of seconds when average frames barely have time to aim and kill a single one of them, well..... Do you think it's balanced?

"But I have a carefully selected planned build for this, it took me time and effort to invest in it". Big deal, took me time and investment too to for whatever I'm playing as I'm not handed free exp nor mods or endo so, forgive me if excuses of players who use easy win tactics mean nothing.

 

I have played many mmorpgs in my life but warframe is the only one that has this monstrous power creep where you can destroy and trivialize everything combining extreme dps with aoe damage. What the hell do you even need support/healing/tanking/crowd control when simply metaphorically saying "omae wa mou shindeiru" is way more than enough to push you forward in almost every situation? Considering that after the wound comes the insult as the nuking frames can also do other stuff other than dps and maybe, just maybe, you can start understand why some players feel like they are supporting characters in their own game as they literally add nothing the super frame can't already do itself. But look at bright side, you can say that players asking for balance are "crying" (despite the fact that you are the one in fear of losing easy win toys but whatever) and none of it matters as we all know DE takes biblical times before it even acknowledges something, let alone doing it (cough, *Vauban*, cough).

 

EDIT

For all the fans of "don't nerf x, buff y", how much power do we need before realizing that we are actual gods in a game that cannot challenge us? Keep buffing and buffing and what is left that can even scratch us?

Edited August 4, 2019 by Olphalarepth

[(PSN)KingGuy420]

At this point, I wish DE would buff her just to screw with people.

[AkyFenrir]

Le 02/08/2019 à 17:13, MrRixter a dit :

I'm a fairly new player and today I got matched with a Saryn at my sortie. It was the first time that I felt bored in the game. There was nothing for me to do, everything was dying instantly all over the map so I just went afk and made a cup of tea. Whats the point of me trying to improve my frames and get all the mods, arcanes etc, when a frame exists which can nuke the whole map with no effort at all? I apologise if I'm wrong but from what I saw was a Saryn barely even moving.

I feel quite deflated right now and confused on how something so broken is allowed to exist in the game. Bare in my mind I'm quite new so I'm not aware if there are other broken frames, its just this Saryn was the first one I saw.

I just don't get it you know ? How people can rush the forums for nerfs the exact second they experience something they don't like... People like you are the reason Ember is dead now! At the time we kept saying that another warframe would get picked for it's aoe damage, It's saryn now, and as predicted people will whine AOE to death so they can pew pew in their 20-25 starchart mission...

You don't even have context for what you're talking about... Sorties are NOT hard, they're super easy, and whenever a nuke is there i'm happy this daily task is done and i can go on something more interesting with my Titania (Yes i'm a Titania main, i don't play the op aoe thingies because i like to fly around as a pixie and i don't have to bullet jump around all the time)

You're facing a very typical problem ... You're a new player, your equipment is bad, you don't have a good mod collection and it made you struggle. So you missed the memo pointing out this game is  6years old, people are very strong in here, and that's ok, you're asking why to improve stuff ? Because that's how the game is designed. Either to be A big DPS, supporting your DPS or being immortal... those are stuff to do in this game.

Oh btw there are a lot of support frames that can help Saryn to be more efficient and make things go faster, however you won't have your TOP DPS/KILLS at the end... Play a support frame and get your saryn to kill faster...

But you didn't thought about it obviously ?

Some people will like the game the way it is. Some want to make it a completely different game and I'm not ok with it. I like to know i'll be super powerfull when i connect to warframe, and go out there if i want something challenging is fine by me.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by AkyFenrir

[str4dlin]

hace 23 minutos, Olphalarepth dijo:

If you're MR 27 and you don't know how to level up every kind of weapon up to lv 30 in ....15 minutes max I dare to say you know very little of the game mechanics and Saryn is your go to frame because you can't handle the rest.

Sounds like an insult? Don't expect too much courtesy when you refer to players who don't agree with you as "ungrateful bunch".I own not a bloody thing to players who enjoys nuke frames, especially Saryn. I have NEVER stepped in Hydron to level up and, most likely, I have never run it with a party. I have my own way to super level stuff that doesn't involve LEECHING of one super frame that can clear enemies behind the walls in 3 seconds flat. If you don't get the problem I'll spell it out for you. We don't care how much "skill" you use when playing nuking frames. If it can clear a room with or without line of sight (and saryn just happens to be the biggest offender in this regard but she is not alone) dropping high level mobs in a handful of seconds when average frames barely have time to aim and kill a single one of them, well..... Do you think it's balanced?

"But I have a carefully selected planned build for this, it took me time and effort to invest in it". Big deal, took me time and investment too to for whatever I'm playing as I'm not handed free exp nor mods or endo so, forgive me if excuses of players who use easy win tactics mean nothing.

 

I have played many mmorpgs in my life but warframe is the only one that has this monstrous power creep where you can destroy and trivialize everything combining extreme dps with aoe damage. What the hell do you even need support/healing/tanking/crowd control when simply metaphorically saying "omae wa mou shindeiru" is way more than enough to push you forward in almost every situation? Considering that after the wound comes the insult as the nuking frames can also do other stuff other than dps and maybe, just maybe, you can start understand why some players feel like they are supporting characters in their own game as they literally add nothing the super frame can't already do itself. But look at bright side, you can say that players asking for balance are "crying" (despite the fact that you are the one in fear of losing easy win toys but whatever) and none of it matters as we all know DE takes biblical times before it even acknowledges something, let alone doing it (cough, *Vauban*, cough).

 

EDIT

For all the fans of "don't nerf x, buff y", how much power do we need before realizing that we are actual gods in a game that cannot challenge us? Keep buffing and buffing and what is left that can even scratch us?

Oh yes, you are god, you can solo index after 1st hour with levels above 200 and mobs over 2kk HP. With Saryn, of course. Because Saryn uses her 4th and kill em in one shoot and you can't die because.. wait... because what? Oh yes, because you are God

Definitelly you right. And definitelly best config for 1 hour index is 4 Saryns. I dont know why I ve not ever found one and people focus on shooter warframes and rhinos Or other I dont mention under the risk they get nerfed 😞

(Ironic mode off)
Stop playing casual and find the real uses of that content. And If you feel better just ban Saryn from Hydron and let us play what we need for what we want.

Best of Saryn is ESO, but of course, you notice you need she after 8 rounds. You did ever tried? Probably not, like the  80% here giving opinion. Why to take effort? Consder we exist people that play that content. And stop crying.

Edited August 4, 2019 by str4dlin

[Reifnir]

10 minutes ago, Olphalarepth said:

how much power do we need before realizing that we are actual gods in a game that cannot challenge us? Keep buffing and buffing and what is left that can even scratch us?

As long as mindlessly nuking wave after wave of Defence/ESO/Interception/whatever is one of the most efficient ways to earn affinity we need frames like Saryn, Equinox, Volt and the like. It's as simple as that. Oh, and nukers are only "godlike" at trivial content, so maybe it's a sign that we actually need some long overdue non-trivial content that doesn't require you to spend an hour in before it becomes remotely challenging?

Because your answer seems to nerf and cripple stuff to make trivial content more tedious, since you somehow see it as "challenging" to poke every last Grineer on hydron to death with toothpicks (hint: it's not). 

[Olphalarepth]

13 minutes ago, str4dlin said:

Oh yes, you are god, you can solo index after 1st hour with levels above 200 and mobs over 2kk HP. With Saryn, of course. Because Saryn uses her 4th and kill em in one shoot and you can't die because.. wait... because what? Oh yes, because you are God

Definitelly you right. And definitelly best config for 1 hour index is 4 Saryns. I dont know why I ve not ever found one and people focus on shooter warframes and rhinos 😞

(Ironic mode off)
Stop playing casual and find the real uses of that content. And If you feel better just ban Saryn from Hydron and let us play what we need for what we want.

Best of Saryn is ESO, but of course, you notice you need she after 8 rounds. You did tried ever?

I think you confused ironic mode with salty Tenno. I have nothing aginst dps frames, I have only have issues with extreme dps that makes everything else irrelevant.

Why are you bringing lv 200 mobs in this? Do you find them in the star chart or sorties? Honestly I don't have patience to sit for hours for them to appear and I only kill them in simulacrum to test builds, ask DE to give us actual end game content that doesn't involve sitting for hours and we might even be best buddies. Hate the game, not the player.

6 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

As long as mindlessly nuking wave after wave of Defence/ESO/Interception/whatever is one of the most efficient ways to earn affinity we need frames like Saryn, Equinox, Volt and the like. It's as simple as that. Oh, and nukers are only "godlike" at trivial content, so maybe it's a sign that we actually need some long overdue non-trivial content that doesn't require you to spend an hour in before it becomes remotely challenging?

Because your answer seems to nerf and cripple stuff to make trivial content more tedious, since you somehow see it as "challenging" to poke every last Grineer on hydron to death with toothpicks (hint: it's not). 

You confuse the cause and effect. We don't have nuking frames because of ESO, it's quite the opposite.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Olphalarepth

[str4dlin]

hace 15 minutos, Olphalarepth dijo:

I think you confused ironic mode with salty Tenno. I have nothing aginst dps frames, I have only have issues with extreme dps that makes everything else irrelevant.

Why are you bringing lv 200 mobs in this? Do you find them in the star chart or sorties? Honestly I don't have patience to sit for hours for them to appear and I only kill them in simulacrum to test builds, ask DE to give us actual end game content that doesn't involve sitting for hours and we might even be best buddies. Hate the game, not the player.

I bring level 200 mobs or high-end content because is what Saryn is made for! Im not salty, I play the content you forget and you want to nerf a warframe that I could need. And Saryn has not insane damage. Bring numbers or check those and say that again. Ash has insane damage. Saryn just can clean faster in low level because the AOE, for what she is builded, not power strength, and win you in DPS reason why you are here crying.

Gara can also clear a wave where you play, also nerf she then, and volt, and equinox (that now I mention can stack infinite damage OMG nerf him yet!) . Lets do all warframes act like devotees with a pistol. Much more funny game and remove endless content.

Play the game, learn the true. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by str4dlin

[Olphalarepth]

10 minutes ago, str4dlin said:

I bring level 200 mobs or high-end content because is what Saryn is made for! Im not salty, I play the content you forget and you want to nerf a warframe that I could need. And Saryn has not insane damage. Bring numbers or check those and say that again. Ash has insane damage. Saryn just can clean faster in low level and win you in DPS reason why you are here crying.

Gara can also clear a wave where you play, also nerf she then, and equinox please and volt. Lets do all warframes act like devotees with a pistol. Much more funny game and remove endless content.

Play the game, learn the true. 

Wait, hold it. Who told you that Saryn is for high level content? Do you have confirmation from Steve or Scott? Maybe a tweet from Pablo? Just asking cause last time I checked the official statement is that every frame can do equally well in every content. We both know it's a blatant lie but that is the official line. As the burden of proof falls on you as you claimed that Saryn is for high level content please provide proof. you won't find any because it doesn't exists and it's something you completely made up. I tried reasoning with you, I really tried but you kind asked for it.

You are basically claiming that there are inferior frames for lower contents and I'm the butthole for asking  for balance? NUTS

 

PS: Learn the game,learn to kill stuff without press x to win

Edited August 4, 2019 by Olphalarepth

[str4dlin]

hace 6 minutos, Olphalarepth dijo:

Wait, hold it. Who told you that Saryn is for high level content? Do you have confirmation from Steve or Scott? Maybe a tweet from Pablo? Just asking cause last time I checked the official statement is that every frame can do equally well in every content. We both know it's a blatant lie but that is the official line. As the burden of proof falls on you as you claimed that Saryn is for high level content please provide proof. you won't find any because it doesn't exists and it's something you completely made up. I tried reasoning with you, I really tried but you kind asked for it.

You are basically claiming that there are inferior frames for lower contents and I'm the butthole for asking  for balance? NUTS

EXPERIENCE say me that Saryn is for high-end content. And not because she oneshoots, and not because 4th skill what is more related to CC in high-end content and ofc viral proc. And also she is not the best for all high-end content. I dont bring she for index as I mentioned. What you have not done is experimented that, it seems.

With your answer you strip warframes of their roles.

Edited August 4, 2019 by str4dlin

[Cubewano]

1 hour ago, str4dlin said:

Complete the phrase please. "I have been playing over 4 years and I ve not go out from casual content, my focus is to raise MR farming Hydron"

If you have been playing 4 years I cant belive you can't find difference between old and reworked Saryn, for example. Or we playing different games.

You ever tried to play she out from Hydron?

You have been playing 4 years I think you could give a more elaborated opinion if you have learn something about the game in the time. Or just walk around. 

Cry over cry.

I don't even know what you are responding to here. I said nothing about her old versus new kit. I have no idea why you think I'd use her for hydron. And I believe we've actually had an elaborate conversation on this matter so is your memory spotty or is something else happening here? 

Are you okay? 

43 minutes ago, str4dlin said:

Because content is going upwards. Wake up Tenno!

Balance is bring Atlas to life, not downgrade. And bring harder content. 

This is not a static game.

Define upward. 

Nobody said to downgrade Atlas. 

Did you misquote or something?