Can something be done about Saryn?

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

remove all the frames, we play as operator from now on. 

[uAir]

(spoilers)



1) People who think Warframe is some run and gun game like Call of Duty.

2) People who think Warframe is Warframe where you're this warrior kid riding in a biomechanical suit designed for war against all odds able to deploy sci-fi powers and decimate enemy forces with powers beyond human capabilities.

One group of people is right. The other group of people may just want to stick with Call of Duty.

=========

I'm seeing a lot of players are salty about players at endgame wiping the map so they can clear objectives.
If you players don't like that happening why not just form your own clan and play only with your clan members. There seems to be well enough of you out there to make that happen.

[uAir]

2 hours ago, (XB1)GaussPrime said:

Not this again..

Indeed.

I've been on the forums a bit lately due to the event and it's so salty in here I feel like I'm in the armpit of some bronze level League of Legends player. >_<

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

17 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

FFS just stop whining and learn to play the game.

"This frame out DPS's me!!!! Nerf it!!!!"

News Flash! :: It's not the frame out DPSing you, it's the player using that frame. Don't like it? Get better, or play solo.

 

9 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

No duh!

Not every frame is DPS, and a full squad of DPS frames is worthless in endurance runs. It's a Co-Op game, not a contest to see who can get the most damage (unless you want to do that with your friends). Work for the squad and completing the objective instead of just trying to get the most kills.

You literally said "git gud, or go home" if a player outperforms you using a frame. Because "it's not the frame out DPSing you, it's the player". With that logic, the same player would still be able to out DPS anyone using any frame; which is obviously not possible.

Edited August 5, 2019 by (PS4)The1stAzrael
typo

[DeMonkey]

12 hours ago, moostar95 said:

well, we do.

Why? You don't think it's possible for this situation to change? A return to a time in which enemy damage was relevant, where their health numbers were relevant, where resource management in the form of health and energy was relevant? Where shooting things was more than just a gimmick to break the monotony of ability casts?

Why do you think this is the way Warframe has to be? And if you truly believe that there is nothing more for Warframe than a moving shooting gallery in which unkillable characters throw out abilities and enemy level numbers arbitrarily rise, then do you not think that that's the hallmark of a fairly poor game?

Edited August 6, 2019 by DeMonkey

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

I have no idea where this focus on saryn comes from personally as I rarely run into her O.o often times I'll quit pugs because no one has her during certain mission types she's useful in, only to use her myself to cover it for others. This is all my own personal experience of course. I'm beginning to wonder if the complaints has more to do with her not being easy for new players to acquire because of how annoying she is to farm compared to other frames. I like Saryn how she is,, I'm happy to see her around in more difficult content and personally I'd have one foot out the door if she was nerfed considering all the other stuff DE insists on adding that contradicts everything else. Wukong--I mean.. I love Limbo but if you roll with him nothing can harm you unless you run into nullifier stuff but I mean, you're going to nerf saryn before you take a look at that? Not calling for a nerf to Limbo either, I'm just saying as far as nerfs go, I'd be looking elsewhere before I ever came back to saryn and if you have a problem with people killing everything else before you do, taking saryn out isn't going to make that change anytime soon and if it bothers you that much, all you have to do is bail or group up with friends or do it solo.

[Ryim_Drykeon]

1 minute ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

 

You literally said "git gud, or go home" if a player outperforms you using a frame. Because "it's not the frame out DPSing you, it's the player". With that logic, the same player would still be able to out DPS anyone using any frame; which is obviously not possible.

If the OP wants to do the same DPS, then they need to take a DPS frame. Of course a Support frame won't out DPS a DPS frame. Stop comparing Apples to Oranges. So yes, the other PLAYER was out DPSing the OP, since the OP did not have the proper DPS frame to do the max DPS of the squad, but the other PLAYER did.

If you want to do DPS, take a DPS frame.

Is that clear enough, or do we need to break out the flash cards?

[FaithRose]

7 hours ago, Cubewano said:

Why is blocking enemies attacking a problem? The interaction issues I can agree being a problem, and it's a miracle DE hasn't done anything about it up to now, but I believe many are on board for changes to that. (Operators are the current inbetween for when Limbos cast their four over consoles) Afk'ing is not a supported behavior and is a reportable offense actually, so one should just report such players, it isn't a backed up behavior by the dev team. And where have you seen these complaints, and how is the room clear being done? I've yet to see any grievances of this sort given the lack of aoe and range for the frame honestly. As for the twing using a catchmoon, any player can use that weapon, it's not really specific to Wukong now is it? 

I was offering you a full perspective, since you only seemed to note a specific failure, of course I wasn't requoting that failure back to you since you already mentioned it as that'd be pointless. It was already a present/acknowledged piece of information.

Then going forward I'd prefer you maybe address my responses in specific when responding to well...my responses, so that our discussion can move forward? And where do you feel I have ignored your points? I'd be perfectly happy to address anything I've missed. 

I already explained why that wasn't an option earlier in our conversation:

it's also not really a solution but just a shifting burden to lock people out public play so that you can maintain your preferences. 

 Just get any high rof weapon to burst their bubbles at the minimum, they really shouldn't be that much of an obstacle, at least not on the basis of their bubble. 

For Limbo....there are conversations like this. It's the same reasons I got grief as frost before. People become very angry about not being able to attack monster in exterminate and defense especially. Yeah,AFKing is reportable, I am only stating why people complain about the frame, as you asked. As for Wukong there are a few posts in this thread that talk about his room clearing ability. I see it in clan chat, ESO, and now in the index apparently. Also, not necessarily you need the standing to get catchmoon :s it's even more obnoxious as the celestial twin isn't limited by player control, it's a bot that can auto aim and fire rapidly 😞

I'm kind of confused here. You asked why I was only looking at the negatives...that's pretty much why. As you use the positive reworks for you, I use the negative one's for me....because there is another side to it and just as a rework can be good, it can also go wrong...and has.

I'm not trying to be rude, but you have ignored alternate solutions simply because it doesn't involve a rework. I offered an idea for a more advanced looking for group. That way instead of trying to rework/nerf and entire frame because it doesn't support a very specific play style is drastic. Even then, just saying it ruins cooperative play is a bit subjective as there have also been players who say they enjoy Saryn in coop play. What it sounds like thus far, is some folks prefer to co-op a certain way and instead of even considering a solution that will support their play style, the only option being considered is to take that personal preference and apply it to everyone. And it's gotten to a point where the people asking for her to be left alone are being called selfish, but I find it kind of selfish to call for an entire frame to be changed based on a personal play style :s

Again, that's why I am asking for specific instances ( as I was asked to provide) that can help me to understand how she breaks the majority of the game play. There have been a lot of posts that say otherwise. People who DO enjoy her, who don't think she's broken, and they go ignored 😞 I don;t understand how offering an option to select frames you'd like to avoid is locking people out of game play....As it stands now people can just choose to play with clan mates or friends instead. This just takes that option to "pugs". It is a possible solution but it will go ignored because it isn't the nerf folks want...despite it being a means to remove playing with that frame 😞

I use opticor vandal for bursting their bubbles *pets opticor* but it can still be difficult to take out multiple nullifiers in wider maps. I normally greatly appreciate my teammates for taking those things on when I play Saryn.

P.S out of curiosity, has anyone tried just asking a Saryn player to not use their skills?

Edited August 5, 2019 by FaithRose

[_JustSomeone_]

5 hours ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

FFS just stop whining and learn to play the game.

"This frame out DPS's me!!!! Nerf it!!!!"

News Flash! :: It's not the frame out DPSing you, it's the player using that frame. Don't like it? Get better, or play solo.

"Learn to play the game"

Me trying to shoot or melee enemies..... All dead... 

People aren't complaining for been outdamaged, they're complaining because X frame can clear a room of enemies (even behind walls) without even seen them.

Is it hard to even understand this?

Edited August 6, 2019 by _JustSomeone_

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, moostar95 said:

I called out my thoughts with the game with a clown picture. Go read that because I'm burned out on this topic. Talking to DE and this community is like slamming my head to a damn wall. Thank god, I got other games to play.

I apologise, I was attempting to have a civil discussion.

[Ryim_Drykeon]

1 minute ago, _JustSomeone_ said:

"Learn to play the game"

Me trying to shoot or melee enemies..... All dead... 

People aren't complaining for been outdamaged, they're complaining because X frame can clear a room of enemies (even behind walls) wihtout even seen them.

Is is hard to even understand this?

Yes. Because it is quite easy to get ahead of a Saryn and her Spores and reach the enemies first. Unless one is way too slow at navigating the map and killing said enemies. This would be why the majority of people are NOT complaining about Saryn. Because they can adapt. Of course, if the squad is actively working to help spread the Spores (since Squadmates can do this), that may make it a bit more difficult for the odd-man-out to get a kill.

Run Public and deal with others being better and wanting the mission over ASAP. Want controlled play? Play Solo, or with Friends/Clan.

Is it hard to even understand this?

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

2 minutes ago, _JustSomeone_ said:

"Learn to play the game"

Me trying to shoot or melee enemies..... All dead... 

People aren't complaining for been outdamaged, they're complaining because X frame can clear a room of enemies (even behind walls) wihtout even seen them.

Is is hard to even understand this?

Because when DE do a nerf they always overshoot to a point that the frame or weapon is useless. 

Ash dead ( never encountered one anymore) 

miramulor dead ( unless you want to annoy someone) 

ember dead ( removed her only purpose) 

remember when tonkor was a viable weapon? 

i rather have a usefull frame on high level missions rather than an unusable frame even at low level content. 

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

On 2019-08-02 at 11:25 AM, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

Because that's what Saryns do. Please stop complaining, because that's the reason why Ember has been nerfed so hard into the ground that she can't even survive anything higher than level 20 missions

THIS, THIS SO MUCH. Goddamn DE really dropped the hardest nerf hammer on Ember. And it was her 3rd revisit after they took away her only defensive ability which made her reliant to kill everything fast. 

On 2019-08-02 at 11:57 AM, Olphalarepth said:

Absolute lie as there are a handful of frames that can dps in an outlandish manner, crowd control, get damage reduction and heal while others struggle to keep up with even a single task.

Let's be real here, it's a lie but also not a lie. Warframes have their obvious roles and some warframes excel in situations better than others. And tbf it is required for a dps frame to have at leas some sort of damage reduction. Just look at Ember, she has none and you can tell how long she would last in high level missions, she's a joke now. Before she had some semblance of viability with her 4, but now that's gone so she's nothing now.

Saryn is the only frame you will have this feeling with in all honestly, because she map clears to the extreme but it's only saryn where you will have this problem and maybe Equinox. Gara can be considered but that requires a whole set up of her 4 then using her 1. The handful of frames you're probably taking about that fills out the requirements you've listed is Atlas, Nidus, Nezha/Nekros (by extension of abilities that forces health orbs), maybe Gara with augment. But none of those frames mentioned can clear tilesets as fast as saryn. So again Saryn is the only real problem for a newbie player, she's a godsend for experience players trying to grind that exp tho.

[bibmobello]

5 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

Yes. Because it is quite easy to get ahead of a Saryn and her Spores and reach the enemies first. Unless one is way too slow at navigating the map and killing said enemies. This would be why the majority of people are NOT complaining about Saryn. Because they can adapt. Of course, if the squad is actively working to help spread the Spores (since Squadmates can do this), that may make it a bit more difficult for the odd-man-out to get a kill.

Run Public and deal with others being better and wanting the mission over ASAP. Want controlled play? Play Solo, or with Friends/Clan.

Is it hard to even understand this?

You are a bit too much polemical for my taste...

It's not so hard to understand that if you are a new player trying to smash some enemies and instead you  find a ML27 Saryn(or whatever else you like)on your team destroying everything, it's not fun at all.

Do you understand? Tu entiendes? tu m'entends ?Hai capito?

Edited August 5, 2019 by bibmobello

[Brey223]

From these saryn threads I can summarize the people here. 

The new players that don’t have the set up for late game high level enemies and complain. 

 

Veteran players that that have seen the high level enemies and are glad to see saryn for being able to weaken and mop up the trash. 

[str4dlin]

hace 4 horas, (XB1)FISTO ROBOT0 dijo:

Because warframe actually pays off incredible hard work and dedication by allowing players to grow extremely powerful. It’s one of warframes most fun aspects. Nobody wants the best you can become to be “pretty good” or have the feeling of destiny where content is level gated but then when you are playing the content you feel exactly the same as a level 5 player fighting level 5 enemies. Warframe has tangible growths in power and you’ve just seen the result of a good Saryn build. If this bores you, you could try to recruit your own squad or play solo so that you don’t feel so outmatched. It’s not like you’ll be playing with that Saryn every game. Just say to yourself “wow that Saryn is kicking ass, good for them!” And then move on to the next activity.

Exactly, but they feel bad because they compete everywhere they go. And they can't accept other is doing the job. Most of them covered in ego with total unknowledge about the game. With 1-2 years playing the most. They have not the feeling of the old community it was cooperative at all. Because they have grow up with games like Minecraft or League of Legend. With a community known by his toxicity.

The same ones who just throw words here without substance thinking that they contribute something. Thinking that they are right or directly insulting calling rookies to people who have devoted much more time to the game than they do. Instead of trying to learn. They think we go to the games to see how good they are. Bringing toxicity to a community that has certainly ceased to be what it was.

What #*!%s me the most is how the community has broken down seeing what I have seen in the forum that I had not been visiting for a long time. It is sad really sad.

#NoMorePublics is what I am doing, because I dont need them. All begin because a new player with tears in the face is worried about other doing the job? Let's avoid them if they want avoid us.

Edited August 5, 2019 by str4dlin

[Oreades]

25 minutes ago, moostar95 said:

This game is played by clowns. These people would not know what is balanced or challenging without whining to DE to let their favorite nuke frame kill everything. This is why i barely play unless we get some real updates.

This game is played by people who don't want to play COD or they'd be playing COD. 

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

5 minutes ago, Brey223 said:

From these saryn threads I can summarize the people here. 

The new players that don’t have the set up for late game high level enemies and complain. 

 

Veteran players that that have seen the high level enemies and are glad to see saryn for being able to weaken and mop up the trash. 

Lol, so true. But with threads like these, it's more than likely a repeat of Ember is going to happen. And THAT will piss off alot of people. Ember is barely usable anymore.

IMO the new players should just suck it up, it's one mission. There's no need to kill another frame just because, bohoo a player with a good build is mocking up mods. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by ShadowExodus

[Ryim_Drykeon]

Just now, bibmobello said:

You are a bit too much polemical for my taste...

It's not so hard to understand that if you are a new player trying to smash some enemies and instead you  find a ML27 Saryn(or whatever else you like)on your team destroying everything, it's not fun at all.

Do you understand?

Of course I understand.

Do you understand that most MR27's won't be in the missions with the new players unless they are their friends and trying to help them? Even for the NW missions (that may be on low level areas), most skilled players (and MR is NOT an indication of skill) will simply solo it just to burn through it, or go with friends.

Most skilled players will help a new player and give advice and not take the fun out of a mission for them. Even at the expense of failing a mission. Yes there are exceptions. Sadly those rare trolls are the ones we hear about instead of all the ones that do help new players.

And if it's a player just burning through the missions in Public, then make a new squad after that mission (if that player just doesn't leave on their own).

This is not a mountain. It's not even worthy of a molehill. This is a non-issue.

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

28 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

If the OP wants to do the same DPS, then they need to take a DPS frame. Of course a Support frame won't out DPS a DPS frame. Stop comparing Apples to Oranges. So yes, the other PLAYER was out DPSing the OP, since the OP did not have the proper DPS frame to do the max DPS of the squad, but the other PLAYER did.

If you want to do DPS, take a DPS frame.

Is that clear enough, or do we need to break out the flash cards?

Mirage: DPS+ a little bit of CC = Incapable of outdamaging Saryn, routinely breaks weapons.

Ash: Stealth, CC, DPS. Bladestorm requires LOS, cannot target or affect enemies blocked by walls. Incapable of outdamaging Saryn.

Revenant: Great survivability, gimmicky damage dealer. Incapable of outdamaging Saryn.

Garuda: Fourth requires a charge up, can be fixed with casting speed mods, however, most of her damage falls off around level 60. Incapable of outdamaging Saryn.

Equinox: Massive damage potential, build up can be a bit slow (depending your build), annoys Saryn players, lightly inhibited by the inability to craft separate builds for Day form and Night form. Capable of out damaging Saryn.

Volt: Sacrifices long-term survivability for temporary protection, easiest to build for, but also easiest to die in. Closer to reaching Saryn level DPS, but requires a constant source of energy and a number of Vault mods.

Mesa: Peacemaker requires LOS, two of her four abilities quickly become useless, Peacemaker also makes you immobile. Pretty close to Volt level of nuking.

Octavia: Not as overpowered as people think, incredibly squishy outside of invisibility, her Amp is stationary, and requires a high level of sound in the area in order to take down higher level enemies. Damage output is on almost the same level as Mesa.

Do I need to list every damage frame in the fecking roster, in order for you to realise that Saryn is a brokenly overpower mess?

Edited August 5, 2019 by (PS4)The1stAzrael
typo

[bibmobello]

8 minutes ago, Brey223 said:

From these saryn threads I can summarize the people here. 

The new players that don’t have the set up for late game high level enemies and complain. 

  

 Veteran players that that have seen the high level enemies and are glad to see saryn for being able to weaken and mop up the trash. 

Maybe a lot of time ago. Now you have arcanes and weapons able to destroy everything. The only useful frames are  frost, oberon and limbo (and maybe khora)for defence and after that get a good melee weapon and you will erase everything till level 300 easily. Saryn, Equinox and mesa are good for little kids having fun on low level missions. Volt at least has shields useful for everyone...

Edited August 5, 2019 by bibmobello

[Brey223]

4 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

Maybe a lot of time ago. Now you have arcanes and weapons able to destroy everything. The only useful frames are trinity for edidolon, frost, oberon and limbo (and maybe khora)for defence and after that get a good melee weapon and you will erase everything till level 300 easily. Saryn, Equinox and mesa are good for little kids having fun on low level missions. Volt at least has shields useful for everyone...

You have a very small list of stuff you think is good. We have nezha, nidus, inaros, wisp, harrow etc etc. each frame does a job. Saryn is good at her job and honestly the only “issue” people are having with saryn is not her damage but her damage types. Corrosion, toxin and viral. Those are by far (next to slash) the best statuses one can apply to enemies. That’s why enemies die so fast to her. 

 

Once people try doing a super long endurance in an arbitration or doing and kind of high level mission (kuva flood for instance) having a saryn is a god send. 

Your small list of what you deem as “good” makes the opinion you raised irrelevant to me. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Brey223

[PhazonMagala]

I mean even without Saryn the new players will still be largely outpaced by the "not new" players, maxed mods, better weapons builds, faster/better movements, more knowledge of the ennemies/tilesets, stuff like that

Edited August 5, 2019 by PhazonMagala

[_JustSomeone_]

10 minutes ago, Brey223 said:

From these saryn threads I can summarize the people here. 

The new players that don’t have the set up for late game high level enemies and complain. 

 

Veteran players that that have seen the high level enemies and are glad to see saryn for being able to weaken and mop up the trash. 

guess i'm a new player and i never knew 😦

[Brey223]

7 minutes ago, ShadowExodus said:

Lol, so true. But with threads like these, it's more than likely a repeat of Ember is going to happen. And THAT will piss off alot of people. Ember is barely usable anymore.

IMO the new players should just suck it up, it's one mission. There's no need to kill another frame just because, bohoo a player with a good build is mocking up mods. 

If anything the matchmaking should group up low MR players with other low MR players. So they get their “hard mode” experience.