Can something be done about Saryn?

[Ryim_Drykeon]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

Do I need to list every damage frame in the fecking roster, in order for you to realise that Saryn is a brokenly overpower mess?

No. Since I can play a myriad of other frames and still out damage Saryn players. People need to learn to play the other frames correctly. If Saryn was such a beast, all the players that have her would play nothing else. However, those that can play other frames correctly understand that Saryn has a niche, but is not the end-all of DPS.

However, since people want to believe it's the frames, not their lack of skills, that are holding them back, I'll leave you all to it and go play Warframe. Maybe I'll take Mirage and go nuke the map 😎

[Brey223]

1 minute ago, _JustSomeone_ said:

guess i'm a new player and i never knew 😦

The only time I get mildly upset at seeing a saryn is when I play nidus. Even then I take it as a mini game to see how many stacks I can have by the end of the mission. 

[str4dlin]

hace 5 minutos, moostar95 dijo:

Wtf made you think I like or play cod. Players want challenges and fixes. But don't want to accept the reality that this game's design is trash. 

How many challenges and which have you tried to perform in Warframe? Also how many of them you know? List them please.

Edited August 5, 2019 by str4dlin

[FaithRose]

2 minutes ago, Brey223 said:

If anything the matchmaking should group up low MR players with other low MR players. So they get their “hard mode” experience. 

O.O;; Heh that's actually an even easier option. Hadn't even crossed my mind XDDD +1 for this suggestion :)

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

Mirage: DPS+ a little bit of CC = Incapable of outdamaging Saryn, routinely breaks weapons.

Ash: Stealth, CC, DPS. Bladestorm requires LOS, cannot target of affect enemies blocked by walls. Incapable of outdamaging Saryn.

Revenant: Great survivability, gimmicky damage dealer. Incapable of outdamaging Saryn.

Garuda: Fourth requires a charge up, can be fixed with casting speed mods, however, most of her damage falls off around level 60. Incapable of outdamaging Saryn.

Equinox: Massive damage potential, build up can be a bit slow (depending your build), annoys Saryn players, lightly inhibited by the inability to craft separate builds for Day form and Night form. Capable of out damaging Saryn.

Volt: Sacrifices long-term survivability for temporary protection, easiest to build for, but also easiest to die in. Closer to reaching Saryn level DPS, but requires a constant source of energy and a number of Vault mods.

Mesa: Peacemaker requires LOS, two of her four abilities quickly become useless, Peacemaker also makes you immobile. Pretty close to Volt level of nuking.

Octavia: Not as overpowered as people think, incredibly squishy outside of invisibility, her Amp is stationary, and requires a high level of sound in the area in order to take down higher level enemies. Damage output is on almost the same level as Mesa.

Do I need to list every damage frame in the fecking roster, in order for you to realise that Saryn is a brokenly overpower mess?

Garuda -  more of a support for dps players because her fourth ability because any enemy marked by her 4th will have a 50% chance to gain a bleed proc from any damage. Coupled with her 2, her 3 is for energy and her 1 (although not really good) for survivability. 

Mesa - Her 2,3 and 4 is good. And have you ever heard of Mesa's Waltz?

Octavia IS NOT a damage frame LOL. How did you add her to this list. The reason people call Octavia op is because of her buffs. She's the best support in the game. 

 

[uAir]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

Mirage: DPS+ a little bit of CC = Incapable of outdamaging Saryn, routinely breaks weapons.

Ash: Stealth, CC, DPS. Bladestorm requires LOS, cannot target of affect enemies blocked by walls. Incapable of outdamaging Saryn.

Revenant: Great survivability, gimmicky damage dealer. Incapable of outdamaging Saryn.

Garuda: Fourth requires a charge up, can be fixed with casting speed mods, however, most of her damage falls off around level 60. Incapable of outdamaging Saryn.

Equinox: Massive damage potential, build up can be a bit slow (depending your build), annoys Saryn players, lightly inhibited by the inability to craft separate builds for Day form and Night form. Capable of out damaging Saryn.

Volt: Sacrifices long-term survivability for temporary protection, easiest to build for, but also easiest to die in. Closer to reaching Saryn level DPS, but requires a constant source of energy and a number of Vault mods.

Mesa: Peacemaker requires LOS, two of her four abilities quickly become useless, Peacemaker also makes you immobile. Pretty close to Volt level of nuking.

Octavia: Not as overpowered as people think, incredibly squishy outside of invisibility, her Amp is stationary, and requires a high level of sound in the area in order to take down higher level enemies. Damage output is on almost the same level as Mesa.

Do I need to list every damage frame in the fecking roster, in order for you to realise that Saryn is a brokenly overpower mess? 

Saryn: requires buildup to get damage. If you build for her 4 she's unable to clear properly at anything near the higher levels of enemies and is useful only for low level play which doesn't matter because a Lato is overpowered at low levels. Her 1 will scale in damage up and down depending on how much it has spread. At endgame you'll be competing with other players. While you have greater DPS potential a Mesa will delete the enemies you are currently trying to stack spores on limiting your damage output. The Equinox will delete the entire area and leave you with decaying status. Octavia is afk and is still doing more for the team than you ever can. And, if we're strictly speaking endgame here, there are frames that do much better than Saryn can and so Saryn isn't even used. I can't remember the last time I saw her at Arbitration because she just dies in a few hits unless you're building specifically to be tanky in which case you are gimping your damage output that much more while the Wukong is mopping up entire rooms with 500k+ damage hits with his 9001m range staff or Nidus is unkillable and just sitting between 4 spawn points sipping on juice and making every player sad they're not a Nidus. Meanwhile, even Nova is amping EVERYONE's damage by 200%, slowing practically the whole map, gaining 95% damage reduction with 90% damage reduction on top of that.

Do I need to go on and tell you how Saryn is not an overpowered mess?
Yes, she has her place. For ESO to wave 8 being completed solo there probably isn't a better frame than Saryn.
For clearing the map with one button press there are a few frames that can do it better than she does (looking at you, Banshee).
For completing and clearing objectives she competes against other frames and some can do things better than she can.
For the endgame, she has a place but she's merely comparable with or falls behind the other frames that are used and played a lot.

==========

TLDR
The players complaining about Saryn are mainly new players who don't know how to play the game. I don't usually make snap judgment like this against people but reading through this topic I'm doing so because I'm fairly certain it's correct to assume this. Saryn is not a problem. Move on.

Edited August 5, 2019 by uAir

[Olphalarepth]

24 minutes ago, ShadowExodus said:

 

Let's be real here, it's a lie but also not a lie. Warframes have their obvious roles and some warframes excel in situations better than others. And tbf it is required for a dps frame to have at leas some sort of damage reduction. Just look at Ember, she has none and you can tell how long she would last in high level missions, she's a joke now. Before she had some semblance of viability with her 4, but now that's gone so she's nothing now.

Saryn is the only frame you will have this feeling with in all honestly, because she map clears to the extreme but it's only saryn where you will have this problem and maybe Equinox. Gara can be considered but that requires a whole set up of her 4 then using her 1. The handful of frames you're probably taking about that fills out the requirements you've listed is Atlas, Nidus, Nezha/Nekros (by extension of abilities that forces health orbs), maybe Gara with augment. But none of those frames mentioned can clear tilesets as fast as saryn. So again Saryn is the only real problem for a newbie player, she's a godsend for experience players trying to grind that exp tho.

Wow, we still going? Uhhh ok.

I agree with part of what you wrote. I think I even mentioned in a previous post that simply claiming that all frames can perform equally is obviously impossible. It is not required for a dps to have damage reduction, as a matter of fact it should be the opposite for balance sake. You want the extreme dps that nothing can possibly survive? You pay with your other skills. sacrifice mobility, defense, cc or whatever but you can't have it all and pretend that everything is ok. If we play the game that dps frames can get dps (obviously), cc and damage reduction like...I dunno, Mesa (that does exactly the same things emeber used to do in the past, only better) and we support buffing other frames up to par we only have an army of super frames where everything can dps, heal, tank, cc and do everything. I get it, we eat gods for lunch lore wise but we play in the real world. All this insane power creep brings us to the point where no content can possibly satisfy us for more than a few days since we can steam roll everything and DE obvious response will be massive hp inflated enemies with immunity and when that happens "WE ALL CRY TOGETHER".

Saryn spore damage might not be OP I concede that, the way she is played and forces everything to stand by her rule or not play at all is even more dangerous than a limbo in a trolling mood. When Saryn goes on a murder spree you only get kills by luck or with another nuking frame. Skills has nothing to do with this despite what some players like to think to make excuse for themselves or simply say they are "skilled". Again, she is not the only one but she might be the biggest offender since she completely shuts down any interation and makes everything except other nuking frames completely useless. I have no interest in a circle jerk between saryn, mesa, volt, equinox, octavia and whatever

Edited August 5, 2019 by Olphalarepth

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

Just now, Ryim_Drykeon said:

No. Since I can play a myriad of other frames and still out damage Saryn players. People need to learn to play the other frames correctly. If Saryn was such a beast, all the players that have her would play nothing else. However, those that can play other frames correctly understand that Saryn has a niche, but is not the end-all of DPS.

However, since people want to believe it's the frames, not their lack of skills, that are holding them back, I'll leave you all to it and go play Warframe. Maybe I'll take Mirage and go nuke the map 😎

Then prove it. I have been playing Mirage and Volt for as long as I've played this game. Show me this magic build that makes Mirage a better nuke than Saryn. Tell me how I can play them "correctly".

Lets see the "myriad of other frames" that can outdamage Saryn.

Her abilities ARE the end all of DPS. Corrosive and Toxin are undeniably  the best damage types in the game. Toxin halves the enemies half, while corrosive goes through and strips their armor.

[Brey223]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

Then prove it. I have been playing Mirage and Volt for as long as I've played this game. Show me this magic build that makes Mirage a better nuke than Saryn. Tell me how I can play them "correctly".

Lets see the "myriad of other frames" that can outdamage Saryn.

Her abilities ARE the end all of DPS. Corrosive and Toxin are undeniably  the best damage types in the game. Toxin halves the enemies half, while corrosive goes through and strips their armor.

She does corrosion, toxin and viral. Viral halves the health. Corrosion strips armor and toxin attacks the health directly. 

 

Just correcting you there. 

[Ryim_Drykeon]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

 Toxin halves the enemies half,

First off, Viral halves enemies health. Not Toxin. For as long as you've been playing this game, you'd think you'd know that.

Second, you do know you can put those on weapons? AoE for Mirage with HoM does wonders.

As for a build for my Mirage, Duration, Strength, Natural Talent and anything left goes for Parkour mods. Aura, Growing Power. Weapon of choice: Zakti with a nice Riven, modded for Gas, Viral and Radiation. Turns her into a bouncing rubber ball of destruction, heh. Of course, the thing with builds is that they usually only work for those that put them together for their playstyle. Your mileage may vary until you learn how to mod each frame to their best for your style.

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

5 minutes ago, ShadowExodus said:

Garuda -  more of a support for dps players because her fourth ability because any enemy marked by her 4th will have a 50% chance to gain a bleed proc from any damage. Coupled with her 2, her 3 is for energy and her 1 (although not really good) for survivability. 

Mesa - Her 2,3 and 4 is good. And have you ever heard of Mesa's Waltz?

Octavia IS NOT a damage frame LOL. How did you add her to this list. The reason people call Octavia op is because of her buffs. She's the best support in the game. 

 

Garuda's abilities seem to be built around buffing her own damage, rather than supporting her allies. With the exception of Blood Altar, none of her abilities give a direct boost or buff to her squadmates.

I find Shooting gallery to be of very little use, to me. Augment mods require mod slots. I have seen people looking to buy Mesa's Waltz, but I rarely ever see a Mesa actually using it, unlike Assimilate.

Octavia's abilities deal damage in addition to providing buffs. The buffs she receives, alongside her allies, makes her very capable of doling out some heavy damage.

In hindsight, I probably should've added a disclaimer, stating that this is my personal opinion of a frame.

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

Lets see the "myriad of other frames" that can outdamage Saryn.

you havent seen ash before he was castrated. 

equinox can outdamage saryn. 

even the old ember can compete at low lvl mission because she just run around killing everyone. 

once limbo banished saryn. or limbo banished every mob he can find first. 

unless defense mission a melee volt can go ahead and kills everyone before saryn arrives. 

it is not press4 to win for saryn. now she needs to buildup the damage. too fast it decays too slow and ita low dps. saryn is a headache when enemy is at low count. 

[str4dlin]

https://gyazo.com/ccf95561e64b7dba5dcfd0509fc37229

https://gyazo.com/c93fe8907a9b0bfca73c4ce704e344d7

Who wants understand he will understand. If I need to shoot, why crying because they can't shoot someone? Just close this thread has not sense.Full build saryn after 6 years playing.

Edited August 5, 2019 by str4dlin

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

2 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

First off, Viral halves enemies health. Not Toxin. For as long as you've been playing this game, you'd think you'd know that.

Second, you do know you can put those on weapons? AoE for Mirage with HoM does wonders.

As for a build for my Mirage, Duration, Strength, Natural Talent and anything left goes for Parkour mods. Aura, Growing Power. Weapon of choice: Zakti with a nice Riven, modded for Gas, Viral and Radiation. Turns her into a bouncing rubber ball of destruction, heh. Of course, the thing with builds is that they usually only work for those that put them together for their playstyle. Your mileage may vary until you learn how to mod each frame to their best for your style.

Mixing up the names off one of the three damage types she deals, does not indicate inexperience or ignorance.

I have modded Mirage Duration+Strength, plus some efficiency and range. I can go on Sortie level 3 missions, and get along quite well. The frames I primarily main are glass canon types, like Nova and Banshee. I need an actual image or video of a Mirage outperforming a Saryn in order to accept that dubious claim.

There's a reason why Mirage is one of the least played frames, despite all she is capable of. And it's not because the players are morons.

[Ryim_Drykeon]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

 I need an actual image or video of a Mirage outperforming a Saryn in order to accept that dubious claim.

Sorry. Don't have anything setup to record video (don't need it) and not setting it up just for you. Don't believe me. That's fine. Thankfully I have a self-confidence that doesn't need approval of the internet 😎

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

you havent seen ash before he was castrated. 

equinox can outdamage saryn. 

even the old ember can compete at low lvl mission because she just run around killing everyone. 

once limbo banished saryn. or limbo banished every mob he can find first. 

unless defense mission a melee volt can go ahead and kills everyone before saryn arrives. 

it is not press4 to win for saryn. now she needs to buildup the damage. too fast it decays too slow and ita low dps. saryn is a headache when enemy is at low count. 

Pitting new Saryn up against Old Ash or Ember would place her a little lower on the "stupidly broken frames". I am quite aware of how powerful Ash once was.

I did acknowledge Equinox's damage capabilities, in fact I specifically stated that she can outdamage Saryn. Futhermore, Equinox players are much rare to run into than Saryn players, so I find them less of an annoyance.

You can roll out of the Rift.

Volt is one of the few frames that can compete with a Saryn.

At level 15-20 It can be a headache for a Saryn to build up damage, simply because she kills them faster than they can respawn.

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

2 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

Sorry. Don't have anything setup to record video (don't need it) and not setting it up just for you. Don't believe me. That's fine. Thankfully I have a self-confidence that doesn't need approval of the internet 😎

It's not about self-confidence or gaining the approval of a random internet stranger. I knew full well the chances of you actually providing those things was quite small, given that fact that I've run around this same old circle before, with other people shouting out baseless accusations, despite being unable to back them up.

That's why I asked for them.

[Ryim_Drykeon]

1 minute ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

It's not about self-confidence or gaining the approval of a random internet stranger. I knew full well the chances of you actually providing those things was quite small, given that fact that I've run around this same old circle before, with other people shouting out baseless accusations, despite being unable to back them up.

That's why I asked for them.

And video won't prove that anyway. Anyone who would could easily set it up with a friend on Saryn holding back *shrugs* I know what I can do with frames. There is no "main" frame. There is not one that is "best". Especially when you talk from mission type to mission type.

You asked for "proof" because you know there's no way to prove it. Again, I really don't care. Though you realize you're shouting out baseless accusations as well, since you can't prove other frames can't out damage Saryn as well? That sword cuts both ways.

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

1 hour ago, ShadowExodus said:

THIS, THIS SO MUCH. Goddamn DE really dropped the hardest nerf hammer on Ember. And it was her 3rd revisit after they took away her only defensive ability which made her reliant to kill everything fast. 

Let's be real here, it's a lie but also not a lie. Warframes have their obvious roles and some warframes excel in situations better than others. And tbf it is required for a dps frame to have at leas some sort of damage reduction. Just look at Ember, she has none and you can tell how long she would last in high level missions, she's a joke now. Before she had some semblance of viability with her 4, but now that's gone so she's nothing now.

Saryn is the only frame you will have this feeling with in all honestly, because she map clears to the extreme but it's only saryn where you will have this problem and maybe Equinox. Gara can be considered but that requires a whole set up of her 4 then using her 1. The handful of frames you're probably taking about that fills out the requirements you've listed is Atlas, Nidus, Nezha/Nekros (by extension of abilities that forces health orbs), maybe Gara with augment. But none of those frames mentioned can clear tilesets as fast as saryn. So again Saryn is the only real problem for a newbie player, she's a godsend for experience players trying to grind that exp tho.

Eh, DPS frames should have stayed as glass cannons while the tanks are the ones who take agro and do the...tanking.


Looking at you, rhino, you failure

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

1 minute ago, Olphalarepth said:

Wow, we still going? Uhhh ok.

Ahh sorry, I didn't read the thread (had like 10 pages when I came on :p

 

[Oreades]

Now I'm going to assume that your builds are all competently constructed...............So..... like none of that even approaches challenge levels.

18 minutes ago, moostar95 said:

I've killed one of the baby eidolon with my inaros for the lols. 

You can solo the Teralyst with a ham sandwich and you're saying doing it with Inaros is a "challenge"? Last time I dragged Inaros out was to strait up facetank the Profit Taker, so yeah there is nothing challenging about soloing an Eidolon with Inaros. 

18 minutes ago, moostar95 said:

Beaten interceptions on elite alerts as mag solo

Mag is literally one of the forgotten nuke frames, like Volt and Gara so again pardon me if I'm unimpressed with the completion of an easy task with an easy frame. 

18 minutes ago, moostar95 said:

Have solo mobile defense shorties before as equinox night without having to fire a bullet thanks to sleep and peaceful mod she got. 

Soooo your version of a challenge is to cheese the game.... that isn't a challenge it's a curiosity.  

18 minutes ago, moostar95 said:

Did a three hour long endurance with valkyr prime in a group when she first came out. ( got carried around the third hour but everyone was getting tried and dropping like flies so we got out)

Doing a protracted survival with a frame who's schtick is literally being invulnerable...... totes challenge mcgoats 

18 minutes ago, moostar95 said:

Had done solo endurances as inaros and hildryn. 

Wow doing an endurance with two of the frames that are functionally impossible to kill, again how is this a challenge? 

18 minutes ago, moostar95 said:

Speaking of hildryn, I've solo that new game mode on Jupiter as her while crying nuke mains compain about how foes now counter their powers now. Along with my Hilda being the champ of elite alerts as while as shorties with gara. 

You keep saying elite alerts, are you talking the old higher tier Gift of the Lotus missions? Cause I don't recall there ever being Elite Alerts, alerts where always prety darn run of the mill. Even the higher Tier Gift of the Lotus where pretty mellow save for the "design counsel challenges" and those where usually only artificially difficult because they pulled some cheap suckerpunch at the end. 

I'm also not sure if you mean you play Gara in Sorties or if your Hildryn is out DPSing the Gara. Out damaging a Gara that knows what they're doing is admittedly almost impressive because of that scaling AoE nuke she has and the fact that she can set herself up to shred enemies with her barrier..... but if you're talking about playing as Gara then it is more of a "well duhh" moment. 

38 minutes ago, moostar95 said:

I've done so much S#&$ to challenge myself and still do. 

Have you really tho? really really? Cause it really doesn't sound like you have. 

[Cubewano]

3 hours ago, (PS4)deathwolfclaw666 said:

Personally I'd rather they actually balance frames and fix enemy/player damage scaling rather than lazily nerf frames just because some people are crying too loudly about the  "most op frame" at that time.

You do realize nerfing is a part of balance correct? 

4 hours ago, Giantconch said:

Theres a dozen other under-performing frames that should be reworked long before Saryn gets yet another rework

Saryn and frames like her are part of the reason they need reworks, so that'd be counter intuitive. It's also probably better to first establish power boundaries, then fine tune everything below it, not tweak a ton of minor things then do a major rehaul, since odds are you'll then have to retweak all things you just tweaked afterwards again anywho. Let's not be wasteful just for the sake of it. 

[Cubewano]

1 hour ago, Brey223 said:

If anything the matchmaking should group up low MR players with other low MR players. So they get their “hard mode” experience. 

hard mode experience is rather underselling the situation here, the op just wants to play at all, and frankly i'm not sure that's a sentiments that fades away based on progression. being locked out of play in any tier of difficult isn't a good outcome, so just matching potential progression isn't a catch all solution. 

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

38 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

And video won't prove that anyway. Anyone who would could easily set it up with a friend on Saryn holding back *shrugs* I know what I can do with frames. There is no "main" frame. There is not one that is "best". Especially when you talk from mission type to mission type.

You asked for "proof" because you know there's no way to prove it. Again, I really don't care. Though you realize you're shouting out baseless accusations as well, since you can't prove other frames can't out damage Saryn as well? That sword cuts both ways.

It is not a baseless claim to say very few frames can actually out damage her. My claims are based on the reality that Saryn is currently the queen of damage; and that is something many on this thread have acknowledged. It's the bitter truth, that out of the 39 other frames, only 3 can come close to out performing a Saryn.

 

[Cubewano]

2 hours ago, Brey223 said:

From these saryn threads I can summarize the people here. 

The new players that don’t have the set up for late game high level enemies and complain. 

 

Veteran players that that have seen the high level enemies and are glad to see saryn for being able to weaken and mop up the trash. 

And where am I? I'm certainly not a new player, but I also most definitely am never glad to see a Saryn. (edit: at least not outside eso)

Edited August 5, 2019 by Cubewano