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MrRixter

Can something be done about Saryn?

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47 minutes ago, Zakual said:

I wish more people felt like this, I've been using her to farm in ESO lately. The amount of people that leave is just absurd. If they just stay they'll have more than enough opportunity to kill something - saryn doesnt 1 shot in there whatsoever. Sure she kills quickly but not so quickly that they cant even swing attarax.

It's not about being able to get in a few kills in the couple second window before everything dies anyway, it's about not making other players superfluous in an allegedly co-op game.

ESO (Everyone's Saryn Okay?) shouldn't be used to justify her (or any other frame's) current state, people that go into a public ESO today should absolutely expect a Saryn to be there. I sometimes go to ESO to let a Saryn level my stuff while I pootle around, doesn't mean I believe this is good/healthy game design.

18 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

You don't think it's possible for this situation to change? A return to a time in which enemy damage was relevant, where their health numbers were relevant, where resource management in the form of health and energy was relevant?

I really don't anymore...may as well create a different game at this point.

20 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

And if you truly believe that there is nothing more for Warframe than a moving shooting gallery in which unkillable characters throw out abilities and enemy level numbers arbitrarily rise, then do you not think that that's the hallmark of a fairly poor game?

Calling Warframe a poor game isn't really fair or accurate, there's a lot of great stuff depending on what you want out of it. For me it's better to say Warframe hasn't gone in the direction I would have wanted when I started playing just prior to Nova's original PA. At this point I just view it as a collection game to play between other games.

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Wow, i've read the whole thread including all the walls of text, this thread is literal OCD hell.

Just the fact the last 7 pages were written in under a day is telling of the magnitude of an issue a few messed up numbers can cause.

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10 minutes ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

It's not about being able to get in a few kills in the couple second window before everything dies anyway, it's about not making other players superfluous in an allegedly co-op game.

ESO (Everyone's Saryn Okay?) shouldn't be used to justify her (or any other frame's) current state, people that go into a public ESO today should absolutely expect a Saryn to be there. I sometimes go to ESO to let a Saryn level my stuff while I pootle around, doesn't mean I believe this is good/healthy game design.

I never said it was a good game design either, however leaving simply because a saryn is in ESO at that time is just petty and boring for EVERYONE because the more people that leave the less likely it is for people to get very far at least in pug runs.

There are plenty of damage powerhouses in the game I mean people dont even look at gara or garuda  tbh which is amusing (I wont even start on mesa tbh beating a dead horse) and yes I know the global nuke issue isnt really gara or garuda but the point is balance is bad in not just global damage but damage vs scaling in general - I find it incredibly amusing and a bit sad that one frame is getting scapegoated because of a archetype that has been allowed to mess with the game for so long. If they nerf saryn then that should automatically justify nerfing everything else especially seeing as she only excels in specific areas something that I dont want anyway because hammer nerfing everything into the ground has never solved anything and neither will nerfing or changing saryn.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

I really don't anymore...may as well create a different game at this point.

I know what you mean, but it's still something I will always want, no matter how implausible it may be.

Like winning the lottery, for example.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

Calling Warframe a poor game isn't really fair or accurate, there's a lot of great stuff depending on what you want out of it. For me it's better to say Warframe hasn't gone in the direction I would have wanted when I started playing just prior to Nova's original PA. At this point I just view it as a collection game to play between other games.

Ah, but that's my point. You view it as a collection game despite the fact it's trying really hard to be something else, more akin to an action ninja sci-fi looter shooter.

The fact that, in a lot of respects, it fails in this regard makes it a poor game in that context. It's a good collection game, sure. It's good for goofing off in, certainly. It's enjoyable to have something casual to do if I need to relax.

But as an action game, as a parkour game, even as a shooter game? I don't think it's good, not when you're at the level many of us either are, or are pushing onto other people, the action/parkour/shooter gameplay really just isn't there a lot of the time.

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On 2019-08-02 at 4:39 PM, WellIHopeThisOneWorks said:

Yeahhhh, Sadly that is just what happens sometimes. Had that for a mobile defense a few days ago, walked in with my Equinox ready to try and play the game a bit, and watched the Saryn click 4 rapidly ontop of the point for ten minutes before leaving. Granted, I know that's a bit hypocritical as I was playing Maimquinox, but still! At least I have to kill a few things and have a few things die in my aura before I blow up everything....

In this case, you NEED to L2P... Sorry, but for equinox, having a Saryn in the team is like a blessing from god... You just pop your maim after Saryn built up the damage for you, nothing hard... If you're not toe to toe or doubling the damage output of a Saryn with Equinox... You're doing it wrong.

 

Back on topic: Its the way the game works. Saryn is kinda all about stacking those spores than that nice little 4 top pop 'em. You can do massive amounts of damage without the 4 and all..
But you know what? Go to a "Elemental Resistance" sortie, and that falls flat. I mean she'll still kill everything, but not as quickly or as effectively. Sadly the way the game works, Saryn is one of the few Warframes that can still reliably do high damage to really high lvl enemies, because she can stack those spores, which gives her the ability to scale up to 100k dps from spores alone.
But trust me, not only isn't Saryn the only map-wipe frame, depending on the conditions she might not even be the most effective. And like everyone says, it's nice to have that to fall back on... You don't want to "tryhard" every god damn mission after repeating it 100 times to get that one Meso K2 relic.

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19 minutes ago, Zakual said:

however leaving simply because a saryn is in ESO at that time is just petty and boring for EVERYONE because the more people that leave the less likely it is for people to get very far at least in pug runs.

Agree, given the current state of ESO you should expect certain frames to be heavily favored by players in public matches.

21 minutes ago, Zakual said:

and neither will nerfing or changing saryn.

Correct, problem is much more widespread than her spores and I don't think much can be done about it now, shrugs.

20 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

it's trying really hard to be something else, more akin to an action ninja sci-fi looter shooter.

Is it trying really hard though...because I'm super confused about what it's trying to be? If it was actually trying I doubt it would fail so spectacularly. 🙂

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7 minutes ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

Is it trying really hard though...because I'm super confused about what it's trying to be? If it was actually trying I doubt it would fail so spectacularly

For as long as DE continue to add ways to try and challenge us, yes.

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On 2019-08-02 at 4:13 PM, MrRixter said:

I'm a fairly new player and today I got matched with a Saryn at my sortie. It was the first time that I felt bored in the game. There was nothing for me to do, everything was dying instantly all over the map so I just went afk and made a cup of tea. Whats the point of me trying to improve my frames and get all the mods, arcanes etc, when a frame exists which can nuke the whole map with no effort at all? I apologise if I'm wrong but from what I saw was a Saryn barely even moving.

I feel quite deflated right now and confused on how something so broken is allowed to exist in the game. Bare in my mind I'm quite new so I'm not aware if there are other broken frames, its just this Saryn was the first one I saw.

I'm sorry but you better get used to it, that is how this game works. You too will eventually reach the point where you are that saryn nuking the entire map, Trust me , in high end stuff like ESO for example, that is the norm, in fact if you are not doing that then you are failing that mission type. Warframe's enemies are more so quanity over quality, for the most part, it's just the way the game works. Think of it kind of like a 3rd person diablo game, an ARPG.

Not to mention you need to something to achieve and work towards, just think of that saryn as your goal in getting not only better gear but better at the game. Don't feel demotiviated, that Saryn too at one point was a low MR and had to start from the beginning just like the rest of us, you too will reach that point and you will be crying just like the rest of us veterans for more content and difficulty, because we have run out of stuff to do in game.

 

 

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On 2019-08-02 at 11:13 AM, MrRixter said:

I'm a fairly new player and today I got matched with a Saryn at my sortie. It was the first time that I felt bored in the game. There was nothing for me to do, everything was dying instantly all over the map so I just went afk and made a cup of tea. Whats the point of me trying to improve my frames and get all the mods, arcanes etc, when a frame exists which can nuke the whole map with no effort at all? I apologise if I'm wrong but from what I saw was a Saryn barely even moving.

I feel quite deflated right now and confused on how something so broken is allowed to exist in the game. Bare in my mind I'm quite new so I'm not aware if there are other broken frames, its just this Saryn was the first one I saw.

Saryn's good at what she does, no mistakes (she's much like her rather terrifying namesake in that regard,) but she's not perfect. If the sortie'd been Corpus or Corrupted, she would've had a harder time of it, thanks to Nullifiers. Of course, there's also the fact that not everyone uses her. Just play the game. And if such a Saryn makes an appearance in a sortie, do what I do... sit back, relax, grab a cold (or hot) drink, and follow behind the Horsewoman Pestilence, also known as Saryn, to collect the loot.

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1 minute ago, NinjaKitsune56 said:

Saryn's good at what she does, no mistakes (she's much like her rather terrifying namesake in that regard,) but she's not perfect. If the sortie'd been Corpus or Corrupted, she would've had a harder time of it, thanks to Nullifiers. Of course, there's also the fact that not everyone uses her. Just play the game. And if such a Saryn makes an appearance in a sortie, do what I do... sit back, relax, grab a cold (or hot) drink, and follow behind the Horsewoman Pestilence, also known as Saryn, to collect the loot.

Nullifiers are not a threat for years now

Good weapon erases them

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Now that my NW are done, I don't mind a good saryn taking the lead on the front in these endurance missions. I can just collect the loot and keep going. I've spent the past almost 5 years just killing stuff. It's nice to have someone else do the heavy lifting. Have that saryn work for us so we can reap the rewards. It's like our own personal servant who already knows what to do, as long as the saryn knows what to do. 

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1 hour ago, NinjaKitsune56 said:

do what I do... sit back, relax, grab a cold (or hot) drink, and follow behind the Horsewoman Pestilence, also known as Saryn, to collect the loot.

What loot?

I think the point/problem is there is no loot, only killing in order to complete the objective. If only one frame is doing all the killing, then content is denied to other players. They still complete the objective but don't participate in anything, which makes the game a snoozefest.

While Mesa and Saryn aren't the best for ALL content, they are the epitome of anti-fun frames which DE would never design in 2019. But we are all stuck with them until they get the balls to not fear community backlash.

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2 minutes ago, InfinitusPhoenix said:

Nullifiers are not a threat for years now

Hm... I would disagree with you. Nullifiers are the quiet threat. True, maybe you erase them in short order, which anyone with sense should do, but they are still a threat.

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2 minutes ago, InfinitusPhoenix said:

Nullifiers are not a threat for years now

Good weapon erases them

Uh not If they're across the tileset, few rooms away. Still, not a big problem. A much better example are Arbitration drones. Saryns are quite mediocre at Arbies compared to a bunch of other frames.

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2 minutes ago, Ikyr0 said:

What loot?

I dunno... maybe the varied resources and odd mods that happen to be left in the puddles left in Saryn's wake? True, probably not the best stuff out there, but it's still useful.

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hace 16 horas, moostar95 dijo:

I've killed one of the baby eidolon with my inaros for the lols. 

Beaten interceptions on elite alerts as mag solo

Have solo mobile defense shorties before as equinox night without having to fire a bullet thanks to sleep and peaceful mod she got. 

Did a three hour long endurance with valkyr prime in a group when she first came out. ( got carried around the third hour but everyone was getting tried and dropping like flies so we got out)

Had done solo endurances as inaros and hildryn. 

Speaking of hildryn, I've solo that new game mode on Jupiter as her while crying nuke mains compain about how foes now counter their powers now. Along with my Hilda being the champ of elite alerts as while as shorties with gara. 

I've done so much S#&$ to challenge myself and still do. Please, say more jokes. I live for clowns who think I don't challenge myself in a game where everyone holds themselves back. 

 

Thank you for the elaborated answer!

What I think if you say the game design is bad could be because you have not appreciated that much the cooperative content within! Because you mention a lot of solo runnings. 

I purpose you something new. Bring me this poster the next time we meet 🙂 I will accept feedback about the challenge

https://prnt.sc/op3m1n
 

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11 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Hence I explained why. 

You gave me your opinion. The fact you try to explain to me what it is I mean by my own words is astounding.

12 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Says the person misrepresenting the argument?

So its now been reduced to a "No you!" argument has it. What a truly intellectual discussion.

12 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

The complaint is about the players inability to participate, that's it, you can say that it's because of Saryn's playstyle, but that is you deciding to represent the argument in that manner, which is not how it has been presented to us.

Misinterpretation was it. I seem to remember Saryn being specifically mentioned by the OP in both his thread title and the following fluff text in a manner of complaint against the playstyle as he feels it made his own playstyle redundant. He's mentioning Saryn specfically, but his reasons can be applied to a lot of other in the game as well. I don't doubt you saw it differently, since you seem to be seeing everything completely differently to what was written.

15 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

They would have a similar complaint if, in a mobile defence, someone turned off the AI and nothing left it's spawn room.

Strawman. The complaint against not being able to participate in a mission because another player is making you feel unneccesary, is not the same thing at all to AI being turned off.

17 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Oh, we've reached victim blaming have we? How delightful.

This tactic only applies to situations in which the person did not knowingly and purposely place themselves in that situation. Sorite's very cleary show high levels and handicaps, which is more than enough of sign that those missions are difficult and only recommended for those who have decent gear and have played the game for a bit.

I'd advise against trying to use the argumentum ad passiones approach as it is a fallacy. Yes, I am going to say someone who goes into a high-level mission should not be surprised when they find players with appropriate gear there.

22 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

That's the sodding point, they're a new player. How many times must this fact be repeated to you? You don't seem to have grasped this yet, which is exactly what I have been trying to communicate to you. You are seeing this from the perspective of a veteran player, and something within you is completely resistant to attempting otherwise no matter how much you claim to have done.

Again, you're somehow telling me what I feel despite you not knowing me or my gaming experience in the slightest. I've already pointed out to you; this the only time this player has encountered a high level nuke frame, of which there are many. Other times he has been fine. Now that he has encountered end-game, he suddenly wants to stop. I encountered the same thing when I was new, as do all new players. Others do not complain at all about there being players who might have access to builds that make them feel unneccesary to the mission success and do you know what, that is fine. That is what defines a high-level player. They can take the game all on their own if they wished. That is the level you naturally progress to when you play the game. Even other high level players outclass each other in certain missions/scenarios.

The point is that one new player has had his first encounter with a high-level player and he found it boring because he felt like he didn't contribute. This doesn't mean he couldn't contribute, it just meant it wasn't as easy as it would if he was running with say another player at his level. He is specifcally asking for a nerf to Saryn in this thread. You only have to read the title grasp the basic of what is being asked here.

28 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Exactly. And when you can't kill anything then the game has no point, yes?

The thing is; you can. The Saryn was not simply removing enemies before they even spawn. It didn't turn off enemy spawning and just sat there listening to music. Like I keep saying; enemies do not spawn in just one room unless all other players are in that room. The spawn spots do not revolve around the host. If a player moves into another room away from their squad, enemies will spawn there. That is a fact.

So stop acting like this Saryn had the OP's hands completely tied.

31 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Why is something so powerful allowed to exist when it invalidates the entire point of playing the game?

Because it doesn't. The same way how other room-clearing weapons/frames don't invalidate the game. If that really was the view of DE, then I highly doubt we'd have any AOE killing abilities at all. We'd have single target damage abilities and AOE CC only. Again, you are acting like Saryn is the one frame anyone will ever need and that no one else can match her, which is factually untrue.

33 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Remind me why your experience with the game is the default experience that everyone should adhere to?

If this is not the defintion of hypocrisy/irony then I do not know what is.

34 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Now I don't have too much experience with MMO's

Then you can't claim that the situation in which low-level players are not as powerful as high-level players does not happen. We're going to end up trading anecdotes all day if this continues.

38 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I thought it was Saryn's playstyle? How can the entire complaint be about feeling unnecessary, or rather being unable to do anything at all, but actually be about Saryn's playstyle as you love to keep talking about? In order to be about Saryn's playstyle the entire complaint cannot be about being made irrelevant and unable to play.

Because at this moment, the OP came across a high-level Saryn and specifcally pointed her out. The reasons why he viewed her as broken are reasons that can be applied to the vast majorty of frames and weaponry acorss the board. His entire complaint was regarding the end-game Saryn playstyle of wiping enemies clean off the map, making him feel irrelevant. You keep trying to turn my words on me as if I somehow contradicted myself. Stop with the cheap tactics and focus on the actual argument.

42 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

They are not accurate representations of the OP's post.

According to you. Unless you are the OP himself then everything you say is completely your opinion. My examples are not strawmen as I have explained already, because they use the logic the OP is presenting within his thread and initial responses; which is that if there is something that makes other people feel redundant or annoy them in some way, it needs to go. If we follow that line of logic, then nothing in Warframe is viable to be kept the way it is, apart from the already crap weapons/abilities.

45 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

The whole reason the OP felt redundant and were unable to play the game is because the balance of the game is utterly broken.

Have you played any video game outside of Warframe by any chance? Once you reach top level in a game, it naturally becomes a lot easier. This applies to nearly all types of mainstream games. Warframe's core scaling is indeed more skewed than most, but that still doesn't suddenly justify nerfs to frames that can actually counter-balance that. The enemies scale infinitely and only a small amount of frames can keep up with them for a good amount of time and even less indefintely.

Saryn is not a stopper for others gameplay like Limbo was before his rework. She is not impeding anyones ability to kill at all. If we count as "killing them before I can" as impeding others gameplay, then we might as well just make Warframe a singleplayer game.

Also, as much I hate to tell you, but Warframe is at a stage where the scaling will not be fixed. So you can either compalin about that or move on.

55 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

What is the point you are attempting to make here? Because you aren't making one, you're just proving my point. Our builds are too powerful, not just on Saryn, but on a wide variety of frames.

My point is that you can't fix that. Nerfing all of our frames will not fix the issues present at Warframes core. It will just make the game less enjoyable for people who are having fun. Just because you think killing things easily isn't fun doesn't mean everyone else does and you quite clearly do not like that aspect of the game. It's very clear that you are bitter about the state of Warframe and thats okay. Expecting everything to be nerfed as knee-jerk reaction to the fact that we can't do much about it is not only immature, but also not a very smart viewpoint.

58 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

And yet it is.

You are wrong. The "if the shoe was on the other foot" has been used to spur many an action in the real world, point out hypocrisies and bias and is a valid question to ask. It is not illogical or irrational. You simply refusing to answer is similar to that of a slimey politician who doesn't want to answer a difficult question because he knows the answer he will give just prove his double-standard.

If this was a thread on nerfing Wukong simply because one player has been made to feel redunant because a decent Wukong has used the frame effectively, you wouldn't be in the OP's corner, that much is certain.

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

You attempted to manipulate me into an argument designed solely to expose bias instead of refuting my points, and when I saw right through it and slapped your wrist for it you have the gall to attack my integrity? How utterly pathetic.

I refuted your pointsand exposed your bias. Considering you're opting for outright insults as well as comical descriptions of you "slapping my wrist" it appears I have hit a nerve, since you know that I'm speaking truth.

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

How are you supposed to go to another area when there are several defence maps small enough that Saryn can cover the entire tile with a few well placed Spores? How are you supposed to go to another area in an Exterminate when a Saryn simply enters the room and kills everything before moving onto the next room?

Regarding the first part of this clip, I will say that I have yet to see a map small enough were every single enemy is covered in spores. This type of thinking can also be applied to other nuke frames too.

As for the second part, that can be apllied to literally any weapon or any frame with AOE damage capability in the game, so its redundant.

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

It's anything but dishonest. It's how generally how games are designed.

Its not how Warframe is designed. You are trying to act like other game mechanics are relevant in this discussion. They are not, So that's another useless argument.

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

As I have said, and explained, numerous times now you are completely failing to see it from the perspective of a new player, no matter how much you claim otherwise.

What you mean is I am failing to adhere to MrRixter's new player experience as being the universal one, which it isn't. Also, again I'll point back to this;

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Good for you. Remind me why your experience is the default experience that we should all adhere to?

You really did not do well with this one.

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Guess what? New players don't know that.

They will, if they continue to play and not give up after encountering one end-game player whom they will likely not see again ever. I mean that's how my experience was anyway. Oh but I forget; my experience doesn't matter.

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Are you serious right now? Of course it's counter intuitive. When you start a new game and see that there's a point to defend, you jolly well defend that point.

And you don't need to all be shoulder to shoulder in order to do that. I know, a shocking sugestion indeed.

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Probably because you are a long term player playing with other long term players. 

Nope. Some new players I encounter don't always stick to me when I run a mission especially if they get bored because I'm killing a lot of enemies, likewise with other high-levels. Only when a waypoint is placed do we all come together. I can keep countering these hollow arguemtns of yours with my own if you'd like.

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

It's entirely within expectation to assume that a new player might spend more time sticking close to teammates and objectives.

Never said it wasn't a reasonable assumption that new players would stick to other players. But then that kind of defeats the complaint does it not. For if the new players manage to get over the forbidden, madness-inducing, traumatising knowledge that high-level players are more powerful than new players, then they will learn pretty quickly that you don't have to stick to your objectives, which means you can just have fun by finding enemies to kill, of which there will be many if you bother to look for them.

Also once again, I'd like to remind you that this is all based on random encounters, something that your average stranger has less say over than the next. It's really not such a crime to point out that you cannot expect random people to do what you want. This applies in games and in real life. Want to be completely sure that you don't encounter the type of player you don't like? Build a squad with a two minute trip the recruitment tab. Done.

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Also yes, I regularly find missions in which people stay relatively close together. In fact I'd say that happens quite regularly.

I don't encounter those kind of squads. Shall we trade more anecdotes?

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Unless you literally mean "close together at all times" which is a fairly dishonest argument.

That's your argument not mine. You act like everyone always sticks together like that and I'm pointing out how that is impossible because we'd be having a lot more complaints if that was the case.

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

No, I'm acting like the OP's complaint is valid when seen from the eyes of a new player, instead of deserving of ridicule. Something you're seemingly incapable of doing.

You're acting like the OP's experience is a universal one when it is not. There are not daily threads asking for something to be done about certain frames and weapons by new players, which just disproves this ridiculous viewpoint you insist is the truth.

You are looking at it both as if Rixter is the default reaction for every new player and acting as if any disagreement automaitcally means "you are against new players". You also neglect to factor in the fact that Rixter was in an end-game mission, where you would antrually find end-game players. Please stop being dishonest.

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

I'm acting like the balance of the game is pure and utter garbage, and that upon being faced with assumingly their display of it, submitting a complaint about it is an entirely reasonable thing to do.

So you're wasting time compalining about something that everyone has known for years and very little can be done about.

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

I'm acting like everyone should have the potential to have an enjoyable experience

They do. Pretending they don't is a lost cause. You have fully stopped caring about the details of Rixter's situation and are instead trying to make it out like new players are so helpless against the tide of the veterans.

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

And I'm doing all this because I want you to actually open your eyes and see it from a perspective that isn't your own.

Again this an example of how can't grasp the concept of still not agreeing with someone despite knowing the scenario they are going through. "Seeing from a different perspective" does not mean "Must agree with me".

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

My argument comes from the fact that you're blatantly not seeing it from their point of view. It's honestly that simple.

I.e; I disagree with the OP.

So yes you are arguing that I cannot disagree with Rixter, when I very much can and will.

I have been in his position, I have seen high-level players making a mockery of missions that I used to find hard. I chose to look at it one way, he chose another. That is the simple truth here.

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

You don't, my argument is fine but thank you anyway.

I very clearly do since you are so convicined of your righteousness. Perhaps learning that "trying to put yourself in his shoes" does not equal "agreeing with the opposing party".

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

You'll have wasted all that time, and no one wants to waste time, right?

I always find it quite funny when someone talks about wasting time after having invested quite a lot of it. Yes I'm wasting my time, just like everyone else is in different ways.

My view is not the same as Rixter's. You need to recognise that. I have seen it from his perspective, as I have been there myself (like we all have) and I disagree with the way he has responded to it. Considering how flimsy your responses have been and how hostile you have become it's clear you simply refuse to acknowledge that someone can understand and still disagree. A pity.

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2 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

~snip~

Ah well, I'm sure you tried. :satisfied:

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1 hour ago, ReaverKane said:

In this case, you NEED to L2P... Sorry, but for equinox, having a Saryn in the team is like a blessing from god... You just pop your maim after Saryn built up the damage for you, nothing hard... If you're not toe to toe or doubling the damage output of a Saryn with Equinox... You're doing it wrong.

Back on topic: Its the way the game works. Saryn is kinda all about stacking those spores than that nice little 4 top pop 'em. You can do massive amounts of damage without the 4 and all..
But you know what? Go to a "Elemental Resistance" sortie, and that falls flat. I mean she'll still kill everything, but not as quickly or as effectively. Sadly the way the game works, Saryn is one of the few Warframes that can still reliably do high damage to really high lvl enemies, because she can stack those spores, which gives her the ability to scale up to 100k dps from spores alone.
But trust me, not only isn't Saryn the only map-wipe frame, depending on the conditions she might not even be the most effective. And like everyone says, it's nice to have that to fall back on... You don't want to "tryhard" every god damn mission after repeating it 100 times to get that one Meso K2 relic.

In a higher level mission? sure, it is a blessing, drops all the trash mobs for you so you can clean up the rest. But we aren't talking about that now are we? we are talking about a level 24 mobile defense, where a viral proc and over 3K viral damage insta kills everything in the radius. Now I was leveling my freshly baked Maimquinox at the time so like I had no issues with it, I was simply using it as an example to my point. Thank you for insulting my intelligence though, really helped and added to your own! 😁

But yes, back to the topic at hand! The fact you bring up elemental resistance sorties is kind of a funny point, cause in my mind, the fact she can still effectively kill things with that active, just shows how quite a bit over tuned she is. Most other things getting resistance requires you to build around that resistance, but with saryn, it makes you 'take longer'...

But I digress from the point already. Do I agree with the last thing you said? Yes, I feel having a way to effectively and efficiently farm low level content for those relics you need is helpful, and Saryn fills that role. The main thing that bothers me with her is she isn't 'fun'. Tap one tap four keep taping four until mission concludes, occasionally running around for energy. Now I'm not saying there aren't other frames that function similar, Maimquinox and Octavia come to mind, but, both of those frames have the potential to be fun! Well, ok maybe not Maimquinox, on low level content things just kind of drop before you can see it...BUT at least the higher you go the more you have to engage with him, the more you have to designate high health targets and kill them before poping your maim to nuke the rest of the lower fodder, rinsing and repeating that little gameplay loop. And Octavia has the caveat of needing people to shoot her mallet, but is also (should the person have looked at the Manticord thread) rather fun to have around just do to the change in music and team wide buffs she provides. Mesa has to at least look in the general direction of the enemy, other nuke frames fall off drastically as you go higher up do to them doing base damage in a damage type that isn't all that great. 

But the main issue with Saryn? She has the perfect two damage types, with infinite scaling damage. She instant procs viral wit ha button press on a wide radius WITH also doing a but tone of per second damage of that type, then ALSO tacks on corrosive ticks with high chance (guaranteed if build right) to proc armor shredding at a constant speed, with that damage ticking up constantly and increasing based on enemy density, making it MORE effective the higher your go with more and more enemies spawning! Her entire kit fully and 100% counters the game in its entirety, with the only way of stopping her being power invulnerability (nullies) or damage and power invulnerability (Arbitration drones) and I feel she is one of the main reasons those mechanics are in place to begin with.

because as fun as she is and as great as she is at making the game far more streamlined, she also is almost impossible to make interesting mechanics around. And I feel though part of it is do to her play style, a lot of it is do to her damage typing on top of that. She is the perfect nuke frame for this game, but also the antithesis of skill expression. And she doesn't even provide any other fun minigame or cool quirk to help offset this when one is placed into your game. She just barfs everywhere and kills everything. 

Do I have an answer for fixing her? No, I wont pretend to. I don't think her role should be fundamentally changed, as you say, we need a way to clear things quickly, and she is the one frame that will always get it done, every time, no matter what. I just feel there should and NEEDs to be a better way at going about it than watching your Saryn click one then four a bunch. Its a question for the ages on how to do it, but, I feel it needs to happen...at least, as an opinion at least.

(Also sense I forgot about Volt tell just now, he falls under that category of his damage falling off fast once you get higher and higher, though he does still provide CC so he still functions as you get higher, I think he'd be a good example of a healthy balance, something Saryn lacks...)

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hace 34 minutos, InfinitusPhoenix dijo:

Nullifiers are not a threat for years now

Good weapon erases them

Assuming that nullifiers are in the game  since before you was playing. What are you comparing it to? 
to argue as if it were a fact

Assuming that the guy you answered to suggests that Saryn skills can't affect nullfiers. What part of what he said is wrong?

Of course that a weapon can kill them, they are not invulnerable. You must be something like a Guru. 👏

Thanks for your null-ified argument again

the simpsons rat GIF

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Please, just let this 3D die, we know who we are by now and we're not convincing anyone of anything. We have wrote everything that made sense several pages ago and we are only wasting time. If anyone wants to continue, be my guest, far from me to tell you how to live your life but keep in mind that none of us is going to actually accomplish changing DE idea with a megathread full of whining from both sides and it looks like Pablo had already wanted to rework Saryn at one point or another (very, very, very far future imho). Time to let go of this madness. Take care Tenno, the void is calling.

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1 hour ago, Ikyr0 said:

Uh not If they're across the tileset, few rooms away. Still, not a big problem. A much better example are Arbitration drones. Sarynsarequite mediocre at Arbiescompared to a bunch of other frames.

Wow, so Sarynis not good in 1 thing out of 100. It suddenly makes an argument in favor of not nerfing her (sarcasm). 

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Why would we want her nerfed?  If you do not like it uninstall. 

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15 minutes ago, InfinitusPhoenix said:

Wow, so Sarynis not good in 1 thing out of 100. It suddenly makes an argument in favor of not nerfing her (sarcasm).  

not saying that, i think she deserves a minor to moderate nerf along with Mesa. but she's not as game breaking as newer players think. Mesa is a lot more cancerous, as she entirely denies kills in a large room, and is a lot tankier than Saryn.

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5 minutes ago, sungod1 said:

Why would we want her nerfed?  If you do not like it uninstall. 

Because she can be very effective, and that ruins the feeling of playing Warframe for some. I don't mind being carried, but to other people it can be a problem because it makes that gamemode boring. 

While I disagree with the idea of nerfing Saryn as she is, because recruiting is an option, I understand what it's like to have choice removed. I feel frustration when a Frost spams bubbles everywhere, so for the same reason and logic, I can empathise a bit more. But I also feel uncomfortable advocating for the removal of something that people and myself enjoy. It's not an easy compromise. 

That being said, the whole Saryn debacle has become a hot potato issue, and it doesn't help that parties to this conversation come in hot. Doubly so since the tone seems to be one-way-or-the-highway centric. Ideally, if people were more into leaving the squad or recruiting for specific playstyles, I'd think that'll work enough as it is. 

Personally, there's no problem with Saryn, just the person playing her has the potential to be problematic. 

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