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MrRixter

Can something be done about Saryn?

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4 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

nerfing her any further would imply she's faced any genuine nerfing at all, which she hasn't, her rework for some grand mistake of calculations made her more powerful, and now she's bordering into the area of predatory towards teamplay, and game design as a whole. she's not where she needs to, she's not where any tool in a combat game needs to be, and even the person who did the rework recognizes and acknowledges that. (and just wait until you realize eso is as irritating as it is directly because of where frames like saryn have gotten)

What team play?   There's precious little of that in wf.  No planning ahead and agreeing on loadouts and tactics, just 4 random people with random gear all competing against each other for most kills.  Then crying if someone brought a frame that meant they didn't get the most themselves.   

And if you nerf saryn, the nerf hammer just logically moves on to the next frame with a nuke ability. And so on.

Plus, I would appreciate if you could point me towards where Pablo has said he thinks saryn is a mistake and needs nerfed.  I'm not saying he hasn't,  just I've not seen it and am genuinely curious to read it myself.

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3 hours ago, (NSW)Badger said:

as a big fan of Saryn  I have been thinking of a possible solution that might satisfy all camps involved (hopefully). 

Make Miasma not Kill. Make it like False Swipe in Pokémon where it leaves them with one HP or so. Then if you use Miasma you'd also have to make it that they can't die from the spores, either. Then you can spread the spores to kill, use miasma to spread the spores but leave the killing to weapons or teammates. This way, spores becomes the main form of Saryn DPS besides Toxic Lash, and Miasma is used more for crowd-control and spreading viral status procs. This would slow her down a bit, but still give her plenty of DPS and give her teammates a chance to shine.

Or, alternatively, leave her alone and rework one of the other DPS frames, not sure who, (cough, ember, cough, cough) so that the killing everything on the map love gets spread around, giving not only more player choice but more dynamic team-building. 

So make a DPS frame into a frame that cannot kill with her powers and put her in the trashcan? I dont think I of many want that and it makes zero sense...

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5 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

Then you've been reading a different thread, or cherry picking, because the sentiment here seems far more split. And it seems like we never don't have a hot topic over the games balance state and in return nukes presence in the game. 

And 5-10 minutes of time consistently wasted is not short, nor should it be a standard at all, you're just completely shirking the issue by saying it won't happen always which is meaningless. All I run into these days are nukes, whether it's a Saryn, a Equinox, Volt, anyone spamming a high range maiming strike build, it's no wonder this is such a hot topic given how recurring it is, and how impactful it is to team paly, in a co-op game. Also just shut it with people being entitled just for wanting to be able to actually play the game they have invested their time and possibly money to enjoy, like how low of a bar are you living at that expecting something that basic is considered being entitled to you? 

But it's not consistent, it's occasionally,  at least from my experience.  And it's a bit hypocritical to say players should be allowed to play what they want while at the same time say they shouldn't if you don't like their choices. 

If you're that dead set against any form of nuke frame, or even high damage weapons from the sound of it, there are other options you can use rather than pubs.  If so much of your time is being wasted in missions with players you don't like then it may be more efficient to try recruitment or get get people from your clan, maybe even start a clan solely for players who don't like nukes or aoe/large clear weapons.  That might actually be fun. 

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The game isn't balanced, never has been, and I don't believe it ever will be. There will always be an alpha in whatever aspect we look at. 

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Just now, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

What team play?   There's precious little of that in wf.  No planning ahead and agreeing on loadouts and tactics, just 4 random people with random gear all competing against each other for most kills.  Then crying if someone brought a frame that meant they didn't get the most themselves.   

And if you nerf saryn, the nerf hammer just logically moves on to the next frame with a nuke ability. And so on.

Plus, I would appreciate if you could point me towards where Pablo has said he thinks saryn is a mistake and needs nerfed.  I'm not saying he hasn't,  just I've not seen it and am genuinely curious to read it myself.

Playing with others is playing with a team, and while the experience for it gets worse day by day the game is still at the core a 4 man co-op shooter. The 'crying' however has nothing to do with getting the most for themselves, its about being to get anything at all, as per the op. (which please do read some of the thread before making those arguments, it'd be a great help)

And yes, it would have to go on the other problem actors and imbalanced designs, that's how fixing problems works. 

As for Pablo, it's come up in his streams a few times, though I don't have any times stamps personally for them so that may take some digging. Within I believe the last two weeks if that's of aid I believe he made an off mention about when he reworks her again as well, implying plans to rebalance her again, so that's a thing as well. 

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13 minutes ago, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

But it's not consistent, it's occasionally,  at least from my experience.  And it's a bit hypocritical to say players should be allowed to play what they want while at the same time say they shouldn't if you don't like their choices. 

If you're that dead set against any form of nuke frame, or even high damage weapons from the sound of it, there are other options you can use rather than pubs.  If so much of your time is being wasted in missions with players you don't like then it may be more efficient to try recruitment or get get people from your clan, maybe even start a clan solely for players who don't like nukes or aoe/large clear weapons.  That might actually be fun. 

It is consistent, at least from my experience. And where did I say that? All I'm for is players being privy to an even positive experience. Ideally one not dictated by a single player in what is, again, a co-op game. 

And there aren't, unless you're going to secretly reveal a second version of Warframe with entirely different game balance and designs, unencumbered by the effects of nukes not just across themselves, but the game as a whole. These toys don't exist in a vacuum after all. 

 

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I hate saryn. She promotes 0 effort and 0 skill for players to get the highest damage counter at the end of the mission.

You don't become a better player with saryn, you get better at pressing 1

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1 minute ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

I hate saryn. She promotes 0 effort and 0 skill for players to get the highest damage counter at the end of the mission.

You don't become a better player with saryn, you get better at pressing 1

Your idea of a better play is just your idea. People play the way they like.

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7 hours ago, (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK said:

The game isn't balanced, never has been, and I don't believe it ever will be. There will always be an alpha in whatever aspect we look at. 

Its seen better days than what we have now though, so it's not really an excuse. Warframe will probably never be the best balanced game sure, the devs seem have no solid grasp on that element of game design, but they can still do a heck of a lot better than what is being debated now, which is effectively if players deserve to actually be able to play the game they have signed up to enjoy.  

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1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

This argument doesn't make much sense. Mostly because, by nature, nukes dictate things for others - when there's a nuke in the mission, you have to massive alter your playstyle around it or just accept the nuke. I could just as easily say "Play solo then. Stop trying to dictate people into nuking" and have it be just as valid.

The argument does make sense, because anyone using any Warframe/Weapon setup can easily get a majority of kills when they completely out skill their group, or if they are able to move faster than the rest of the group; especially when the group consists of new players. I don't use Saryn outside of ESO, and other than when I alt tab, I almost always have 90%+ of the kills for any mission that isn't defense without using Saryn, or any other AOE oriented Warframe. I don't even use guns unless forced to either.

It's very rare to ever see anywhere near an even split on damage/kill participation, if I don't get all the kills, almost always someone else is getting them all anyways, unless the other 3 people are all inexperienced. This is simply the nature of Warframe, and has nothing at all to do with Saryn.

The game does not in any way encourage team oriented play, and many DPS Warframes do not even work together. Some even slow down specific missions.

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

Clearly, if this many people have a problem with Saryn, then a problem exists, and a solution should be found.

The issue isn't with Saryn, it's with some random person getting all the kills, if getting all the kills matter so much to someone, then soloing allows you to get 100% of them. If the issue is wanting most of the kills in a group to feel good about oneself, then it's a get better at the game situation. A large number of people don't even use the game's movement to get around, we may as well remove all forms of movement and restrict everyone to just basic sprinting so no one falls behind and misses kills.

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1 minute ago, sungod1 said:

Your idea of a better play is just your idea. People play the way they like.

Your not a good player if you press 1 button and have everything done for you. Thats a fact...

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YeS MaKe MuCh DmG HeRo Do 0 DmG, my Rhino Is BeSt HeRo. MaKe StOmp x 1000 DeMiG. 

HoW sArYn Do MoRe!?!?!?

HaX! NeRf!

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Just now, WoodedSkate89 said:

Your not a good player if you press 1 button and have everything done for you. Thats a fact...

No that is your opinion...  and just like others have said, You can solo if you can not get along with other humans. 

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3 minutes ago, sungod1 said:

No that is your opinion

"Pressing an 'I win' button doesn't make you a good player".

"That's just your opinion".

You're getting a capitalised WTF from me for that response.

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On 2019-08-02 at 11:13 PM, MrRixter said:

It was the first time that I felt bored in the game. There was nothing for me to do, everything was dying instantly all over the map so I just went afk and made a cup of tea.

I feel quite deflated right now and confused on how something so broken is allowed to exist in the game.

DEEY OP IS DEPRESSED BECAUSE OF A POWERFUL GAME FRAME HE WENT AFK & HAD TEA AND NEVER RESPONDED AGAIN

now this thread is a clusterduck thanks to you OP

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3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

"Pressing an 'I win' button doesn't make you a good player".

"That's just your opinion".

You're getting a capitalised WTF from me for that response.

someone who actually has common sense ^^^^

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11 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

YeS MaKe MuCh DmG HeRo Do 0 DmG, my Rhino Is BeSt HeRo. MaKe StOmp x 1000 DeMiG. 

HoW sArYn Do MoRe!?!?!?

HaX! NeRf!

Nobody ever said that. Theres 3 types of people in the community.

85% - Not saryn mains, realise how unfair she is

10% - Don't care/don't care enough to argue/ neutral

5% - Saryn mains who think they are good

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I think Tc made a mistake by opening with "I am a newer player".

The longer this thread goes on, more and more people are just saying "git gud  you dummy dumb!!!"

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2 minutes ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

Nobody ever said that. Theres 3 types of people in the community.

85% - Not saryn mains, realise how unfair she is

10% - Don't care/don't care enough to argue/ neutral

5% - Saryn mains who think they are good

I'll need to see your sources on that.

Tho if we're just ascribing numbers I'd think it would go much more like 

 

10% - Not Saryn mains, who think she's unfair and hate the playstyle

85% - Don't care/don't care enough to argue/neutral 

5% - Saryn mains who think they are good (tho that describes pretty much every Warframe) 

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2 minutes ago, Oreades said:

I'll need to see your sources on that.

Tho if we're just ascribing numbers I'd think it would go much more like 

 

10% - Not Saryn mains, who think she's unfair and hate the playstyle

85% - Don't care/don't care enough to argue/neutral 

5% - Saryn mains who think they are good (tho that describes pretty much every Warframe) 

 Your numbers seem to be more accurate than the ones you quoted. Have an applause vote!

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4 minutes ago, Oreades said:

I'll need to see your sources on that.

Tho if we're just ascribing numbers I'd think it would go much more like 

 

10% - Not Saryn mains, who think she's unfair and hate the playstyle

 85% - Don't care/don't care enough to argue/neutral 

5% - Saryn mains who think they are good (tho that describes pretty much every Warframe) 

Thats what I've seen from this post at least

 

1 minute ago, Giantconch said:

 Your numbers seem to be more accurate than the ones you quoted. Have an applause vote!

I cant really tell how much people care. But if you ask what people think about saryn in regional chat, you will get some very mixed opinions.

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11 minutes ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

someone who actually has common sense ^^^^

Just for that I am going to play max range limbo all day long. 

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Just now, sungod1 said:

Just for that I am going to play max range limbo all day long. 

when you don't actually have a point to convey

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Just now, sungod1 said:

Just for that I am going to play max range limbo all day long. 

Limbos need to play solo or not at all (my opinion) period but thats a different argument

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1 minute ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

when you don't actually have a point to convey

This entire thread has no point to convey.

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