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MrRixter

Can something be done about Saryn?

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Just now, sungod1 said:

This entire thread has no point to convey.

Read the title. That is a point.

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1 minute ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

Limbos need to play solo or not at all (my opinion) period but thats a different argument

I knew you would say that...   maybe now you understand my point.

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Just now, sungod1 said:

I knew you would say that...   maybe now you understand my point.

No just limbo is an annoying frame to play with. So I'd rather not have him in a lobby. Just like saryn

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27 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

The argument does make sense, because anyone using any Warframe/Weapon setup can easily get a majority of kills when they completely out skill their group, or if they are able to move faster than the rest of the group; especially when the group consists of new players. I don't use Saryn outside of ESO, and other than when I alt tab, I almost always have 90%+ of the kills for any mission that isn't defense without using Saryn, or any other AOE oriented Warframe. I don't even use guns unless forced to either.

It's very rare to ever see anywhere near an even split on damage/kill participation, if I don't get all the kills, almost always someone else is getting them all anyways, unless the other 3 people are all inexperienced. This is simply the nature of Warframe, and has nothing at all to do with Saryn.

The game does not in any way encourage team oriented play, and many DPS Warframes do not even work together. Some even slow down specific missions.

If you have to massively out-skill the person using the nuke to out-damage them, then for the majority, it is functionally the same argument.

"I don't like your playstyle, so go play solo."

29 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

The issue isn't with Saryn, it's with some random person getting all the kills, if getting all the kills matter so much to someone, then soloing allows you to get 100% of them. If the issue is wanting most of the kills in a group to feel good about oneself, then it's a get better at the game situation. A large number of people don't even use the game's movement to get around, we may as well remove all forms of movement and restrict everyone to just basic sprinting so no one falls behind and misses kills.

As I pointed out in my previous post - no. It's way more than that.

Saryn - or more accurately, all the various ways we have to ignore fighting enemies let players trivialise the main foundation of the gameplay, and that has knock-on effects, since almost everything in the game is built around its main gameplay foundation. With the degree to which we are allowed to mess with that, the whole game will inevitably - and already has - suffered.

Where do you think we get bosses like the Exploiter and Ropalolyst, which for as fun as they are, make frame pick and personal expression effectively moot?

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23 minutes ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

90% - Don't care enough to argue because they don't main a tank

Ftfy

If you can't if not match at least come close to a Saryn in damage you plain and simple need to "become proficient".

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4 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

Ftfy

If you can't if not match at least come close to a Saryn in damage you plain and simple need to "become proficient".

Just gonna point out. He changed what I said in the quote

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1 minute ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

Just gonna point out. He changed what I said in the quote

At least we stand as clear examples of both sides 😄

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13 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

At least we stand as clear examples of both sides 😄

I challenge you to find one instance where I did that

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Why don’t you just run solo??  I don’t get this at all.

Unless it means a great deal to you to deal the most dmg in a squad.

Me, I couldn’t care less, the only time I ever squad up is when I’m helping others out...or eso.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)Zweimander said:

So make a DPS frame into a frame that cannot kill with her powers and put her in the trashcan? I dont think I of many want that and it makes zero sense...

She could still kill with her powers, but the main thing that makes people hate her gets reworked slightly but does not lower her Damage capabilities. Only her four would be affected, and act like a global HP de-buff and not a nuke. As I've said before I don't usually use her as a nuke but as a utility armor-stripper/status spreader. She can still wipe entire tiles, it will just take a slightly longer time and make her playstyle slightly more active. Honestly I wouldn't touch her at all, but if there has to be a rework I think this is a simple change that can make more people less likely to disconnect if they get matched with a Saryn, or new folks like OP who felt deflated after all a saryn blew through the sortie. 

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Threads like this is why ember is non existent anymore. Everyone complained that she killed too much and now she’s never seen outside Lith fissures. Nerfing DPS frames is going to bring about the rise of tank meta and then people are gonna complain about how the tanks are too strong. Then it’ll be support frames and so on. 

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Just now, Brey223 said:

Threads like this is why ember is non existent anymore. Everyone complained that she killed too much and now she’s never seen outside Lith fissures. Nerfing DPS frames is going to bring about the rise of tank meta and then people are gonna complain about how the tanks are too strong. Then it’ll be support frames and so on. 

Just saryn is very op, so people just want her to be nerfed a bit. Not as much as ember. But a bit,

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Just now, WoodedSkate89 said:

Just saryn is very op, so people just want her to be nerfed a bit. Not as much as ember. But a bit,

People said that about ember. Look what happened to her. 

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Just now, Brey223 said:

People said that about ember. Look what happened to her. 

Ember was majorly nerfed, we just wanna rework saryn's 4

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Just now, WoodedSkate89 said:

Ember was majorly nerfed, we just wanna rework saryn's 4

What’s to rework about her four? It’s the same move it’s always been. The only difference is that they swapped what status it did. 

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Just now, Brey223 said:

What’s to rework about her four? It’s the same move it’s always been. The only difference is that they swapped what status it did. 

It's how people nuke.

They spread their spores like mental. So theres like 40 people with it. Then they press their 4 to completely demolish everyone

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3 minutes ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

It's how people nuke.

They spread their spores like mental. So theres like 40 people with it. Then they press their 4 to completely demolish everyone

So you want to get rid up of a way to make the enemy numbers smaller. So when you’re in those endless missions you’re going to get overrun quickly cause you can’t mop up any of the enemies. 

 

This whole thread is full of people who don’t understand saryn a mechanics. You build her to survive you’re not killing effectively. You build her to kill you aren’t going to survive very well you have to constantly get your spores to spread and her four just does the half health proc. 

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hace 2 horas, Loza03 dijo:

 

 

Glad to see people putting words in my mouth.

 

There is 18 pages and four days of near-constant arguing about Saryn in this thread alone, and many more threads as well. If there genuinely wasn't a problem with Saryn, this wouldn't happen. There has to be at least two sides for there to be a controversy, and rational for issue for it to keep coming up. A fire doesn't burn with no fuel. 

 

This is a game about fighting things. The vast majority and foundation of the game is built around fighting things. If there are things that can make the process trivial, then yes, there is a problem, regardless of how much or how little somebody individually cares about, enjoys or benefits from it. People enjoy hard drugs, people don't care about Global Warming and people benefit from crime. That doesn't mean those things are healthy or good for the person or the society they live in. The same thing applies to overpowered content.

For example, among the things that are directly tied to the combat system is progression and looting - things that Saryn is often cited as being needed for. Thing is, if fighting is trivial because you have a way to effectively disable or instantly kill enemies, if you get loot and progression from fighting, then logically, looting is trivial. And if looting is trivial, the only way for DE to make something valuable or respected is to make it cost a lot of resources or a lot of runs to get. In that way, Saryn (or, more accurately, similar frames and weapons that allow for easy combat). Meaning it's entirely likely that Nukeframes are an answer to a problem they were at least partially responsible in creating. 

Seriously, think about just how many of the game's problems can be attached, at least partially, to issues in the combat system.

You almost bring an elaborated opinion. I disagree in many terms where I think you are not right, it my opinion. But the only I will mention is that sure you know the term "glass cannon". 

Nerf Saryn potential and u will have a very nice remind like every other warframe who ended in the oblivion box because nerf maze. Saryn is not broken in terms of numbers. Demonstrated. 

And well, I dont know if you played some before but If you have 2 years playing I dont know if you can give a solid opinion about foundation and initial mechanics. That have changed a lot and real toxic mechanics have been removed. Sadly not reworked in a satisfactory way the most, but Saryn. Saryn passed the rework and now she is perfect because bring us an active gameplay, not like she was before. And not for lvl 20 mobs. 

Everybody talk about how she kills lvl 20  mobs and nobody talk about what she is weak on. So it is not fair. 

And yes it is about fighting things, but it never was only a shooter. You have Cod or CS Go for shooting. Skills always existed, builds always existed and people crying always existed too.

 

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8 minutes ago, sungod1 said:

I think all nuke Frames should be buffed. 

oh yes. All the op frames that have godly abilities and DPS compared to everything else in the game.

What should we do?

BUFF THEM

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11 minutes ago, Brey223 said:

So you want to get rid up of a way to make the enemy numbers smaller. So when you’re in those endless missions you’re going to get overrun quickly cause you can’t mop up any of the enemies. 

 

This whole thread is full of people who don’t understand saryn a mechanics. You build her to survive you’re not killing effectively. You build her to kill you aren’t going to survive very well you have to constantly get your spores to spread and her four just does the half health proc. 

No I'm saying nerf her range.

Nerf the damage of her 4.

Rework the ability.

 

Just some salty ember main getting sad because all his previous no skill easy-kill frames got made fair and now theres rumours of his current easy frame might be made fair he's panicking

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16 minutes ago, Brey223 said:

Threads like this is why ember is non existent anymore. Everyone complained that she killed too much and now she’s never seen outside Lith fissures. Nerfing DPS frames is going to bring about the rise of tank meta and then people are gonna complain about how the tanks are too strong. Then it’ll be support frames and so on. 

You're not wrong. You could even make a case that Nidus and Inaros are unfair for new players. And that Trinity! How dare she have infinite energy and healing! 😉 

But seriously I don't think the problem will be solved by lowering the abilities of the good DPS frames but in lifting up some of the others, leaving more choices in team composition, etc. 

I am super behind an Ember rework. I played a card game inspired by feudal-Japanese culture for years called Legend of the Five Rings. In L5r you took the role of a Daimyo of one of the eight major clans. My clan was the Phoenix Clan, the undisputed masters of the magical arts. Most feared amoungst their shugenja (wizard priests, magic in rokugan was a prayer, not a spell, to the sentient gods that made up reality.) were those that specialized in the Ring of Fire. 

I just want Ember to be a fire shugenja. See the source image

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