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MrRixter

Can something be done about Saryn?

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4 minutes ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

If missions are considerably harder without a nuker.

Oh, I'm pretty sure you will like Mass effect Andromeda or Anthem, those are games especially made for that type of mindset. Can't say any of them is popular but people do play all kinds of things.

I would still like to elaborate a bit on the Bioware subject and imho, it is really relevant as these are all 4-player coops. For example, Mass Effect 3 multiplayer was made in a such a way that with experience and effort, every character would eventually turn into a nuker. While Andromeda did not permit any character to turn into a nuker regardless of what you do. Now, you can see that ME3 is still popular and more people play this 7-year-old game than Anthem, which is plain bad, and Andromeda, that very few played to start with. So, people like nukers and like when things move and don't like to grunt. You've already worked for these mods and builds, all these endless resources, plat, endo, and credits, all these hours wasted opening relics and running Index, so at least let this low level mission, which is trivial, go fast-fast, there is no need to sweat and pant. That's what people like and IMHO, it is very fair.

For those who like to sweat and grunt, there are other games (Destiny, Division, Anthem, take your pick), there are Eidolons, which are not that really grunty apparently as one can do 6x3, there is solo extreme survivals, etc. So, trivial missions are trivial, pose no interest, and blitzing thought them is reasonable after a certain stage of player progression. And why would anybody care about random people they meet over the internets to kill some cartoon characters? Nobody cares about random pug lobbies unless there are friends or clanmates there. And even then not really probably. So, if you want to contribute, you are free to do so. If you don't want to contribute, you are free to do that as well. If you want but cannot, well, maybe you are doing something wrong, IDK.

Now, cheesy setups and tactics are not bad, they are kind of OK. You can frown at Limbo cheesing mobile defense, Mesa cheesing PoE bounties, etc etc. Why would you frown at Saryn cheesing something else? I'm genuine puzzled as there seems to be absolutely no logic here.

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Just now, (PS4)Bigboodyjuudy said:

 

Why cant you just show us the build. It would take you like a minute to screenshot and show it. 

Agreed. He can be sarcastic all he likes but all I wanna see is...

1. Him going to simualcrum and showing us the build

2. Him spawing enemies after with the same build and trying that again

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hace 4 minutos, (PS4)Bigboodyjuudy dijo:

 

Why cant you just show us the build. It would take you like a minute to screenshot and show it. 

Because I am not here to satisfy you and I ve got the game closed. I work tomorrow. In the post above you have got info about the build. If Im a lier as you suggest just try yourself before instead of coming here to trashtalk.

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1 minute ago, str4dlin said:

Because I am not here to satisfy you and I ve got the game closed. I work tomorrow. In the post above you have got info about the build. If Im a lier as you suggest just try yourself before come here to trashtalk.

 

Right, but yet you're happy to spend almost an hour arguing with randoms in a forum but you can't take a minute to show your build. Gr8 b8 m8. 

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)Bigboodyjuudy said:

 

Right, but yet you're happy to spend almost an hour arguing with randoms in a forum but you can't take a minute to show your build. Gr8 b8 m8. 

True

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Well, he did give plenty of information on what he was using like overextended, umbral intensify, etc. I think it might be a pretty common Umbral build (as there are only a few ways to skin a cat in this game, build-wise). 

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1 minute ago, (NSW)Badger said:

Well, he did give plenty of information on what he was using like overextended, umbral intensify, etc. I think it might be a pretty common Umbral build (as there are only a few ways to skin a cat in this game, build-wise). 

But he could have been lying to prove his point. Thats why we wanna see his build in action

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2 minutes ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

But he could have been lying to prove his point. Thats why we wanna see his build in action

I just don't see what the point of lying would be. Forum cred? Can't buy tennogen with it. 

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Though str4dlin isnt showing things off like his build, the results from what he posted are accurate. 337% strength Saryn, with corrosive projection, wasnt taking down the -level 80- bombards I just tested on in the simulacrum (unpaused enemy AI, invincibility on for testing, since with AI disabled you get bonus damage so no cheating it). Spores don't spread by themselves, so no matter what you need to chain the abilities, and even then it had a hard time killing by themselves.

 

Its almost like you guys dont use Saryn or know how to get her to actually be powerful, and you're basing you claims of her being a map clearing nuke on her ability to decimate Helen on Saturn or something, which even an Oberon is more than capable of.

 

If my computer wasnt a piece of crap, I would take a video of it, but since it cannot, go test for yourselves.

 

337% strength, 45% eff, 128% duration, 100% range. You are NOT one button nuking sortie 3 with that, and there is a lot more work needed than you nerf-herders are claiming. If you claim to know the games mechanics and know the mods available, you can work out from the stats I just listed how to make that build. I could probably kick my Str a bit higher but with how I forma'd my Saryn a full umbral build will not be happening.

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Just now, WoodedSkate89 said:

Also no I don't use saryn I have skill.

 

Apparently you do not and why dodge testing for yourself? I also didnt say level 150, I said 80 but it's nice to see how dismissive you are towards posts that don't align with the narrative you are trying to convey. You fully admit to not playing Saryn but claim that she's a nuke and in need of a nerf, pretending that you know all but can't even be bothered to test these things for yourself to see how wrong you really are.

 

Stay classy.

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14 minutes ago, Giantconch said:

 

Its almost like you guys dont use Saryn or know how to get her to actually be powerful, and you're basing you claims of her being a map clearing nuke on her ability to decimate Helen on Saturn or something, which even an Oberon is more than capable of.



We've already determined the majority of people complaining are too new and/or don't know how to play the game.

At endgame Saryn is not an issue. She's just comparable to the other frames in the game and there are other, more worrying things, in the endgame than Saryn.
On the majority of the starmap it's irrelevant because everything is op. If they're worried about one button clearing everything out they clearly don't know what Volt, Banshee, Frost, Mag, or Revenant are.

All of these frames can easily wipe entire rooms and some of them even wipe through walls.

Then they try to defend themselves by saying it's anti-fun for them. Well, make your own groups. Make your own clan with all of those that don't want Saryn and just play with your own clan members. Post a sign. "No Saryn allowed."

I'm waiting for them to catch on and start complaining about how Nova can slow the entire map and trivialize everything for everyone in every map and making the game too easy or boring because they don't have to actually play the game but can just sit back and relax and maybe shoot once or twice every minute. Because, oh no, it's making the game un-fun for them. T_T

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9 minutes ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

Also no I don't use saryn I have skill.

Come carry me at ESO for 8 waves with your skill. Take me to 2 hour arbitration for rewards with a frame and equipment that takes "skill."
IGN: uAir

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13 minutes ago, Giantconch said:

 

Apparently you do not and why dodge testing for yourself? I also didnt say level 150, I said 80 but it's nice to see how dismissive you are towards posts that don't align with the narrative you are trying to convey. You fully admit to not playing Saryn but claim that she's a nuke and in need of a nerf, pretending that you know all but can't even be bothered to test these things for yourself to see how wrong you really are.

 

Stay classy.

Theres so much wrong with this I cannot even begin

 

The other guy said 150, you changed it to 80 for some reason, I changed it back to 150.

 

I am not dismissive I am just disagreeing. That is allowed. You are the exact same to me, do you see me crying about it? No?

 

I don't need to play someone to know if they're a nuke. Infact, lets go over what a nuke is.

Someone who can deal huge DPS to a large amount of enemies.

Saryn is someone who can do just that with the synergy of her 1 and 4.

 

I simply think her synergy should be reworked.

 

Never said I know everything.

 

I don't to test something to see someone's mod setup

 

Edit: About the dodge testing.

I'm asking to see a build here. Thats all. How can I possibly test without knowing the build he used smfh.

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1 minute ago, str4dlin said:

Say then that Saryn doesn't need to fight and constantly move and shoot.

And here we demonstrate that you're either not reading posts or intentionally making straw men. Because I literally out-and-out say I have no problem with how Saryn actually plays. You don't need to be a press 4 and make a cup of tea to nuke, you just have to kill everything. Saryn's spores count as a nuke, despite how much effort she needs to put in. That was the point of my last paragraph.

9 minutes ago, str4dlin said:

About AOE damage, for what is needed to apply corrosive first or have a premade team the thing is that is what saryn is made for. 
Also consider we exist players that don't play only 8 rounds and we like to beat ourselves. Same can be applied to all endless content. Sorties is not the end-game. Sorties can be done solo for players that don't want to find a Saryn (If we suppose eveyone uses, what is a lie, but well. Since alse she needs specific conditions) Same that you bring loki, octavia, wukong or whatever for Spy.

Saryn can be made for that and still be balanced. Case and point, most hero-based shooters and most endurance modes. TF2 manages to make mercs for different jobs yet keep them balanced, and it has a much harder time of it considering that it's PvP. Balance might remain incredibly important in PvE, but it is at least a fair bit looser since the focus can stay on making them balanced to use instead of to use and to fight against.

7 minutes ago, str4dlin said:

About the foundation of game mechanic I ve said here yet and I repeat that this is not a static game. And the future bring us more challenges and harder content. So the evolution should be to be stronger. 

Being stronger and being able to circumvent/trivialise the core gameplay loop are remarkably different things. It's commonly said CC is weak in current Warframe, yet Limbo can run multi-hour Grineer survivals by virtue of being able to stop anything from shooting him, which whilst a different way, reaches the same conclusion of 'can ignore gameplay'. But, that's a different frame for a different thread.

15 minutes ago, str4dlin said:


About Banshee it wasn't about the damage, it wasn't about the kills. It was because she was doing the game slower because she stop the mobs from comming. And not because she was killing them fast like Saryn in low-level, since a fast nova with an amprex was faster than having a Saryn, for rushing. Was called toxic gameplay.  And her damage was plain. And the 4th skill had not another purpose,And...and..and.. little difference from Saryn. Banshee had not a fighting mechanic as you said and really she hadn't a defined mechanic, Im glad you dont compare them. (If somebody doing, return Mot in Void).

1: Once again, I have no issues with how Saryn actually plays, just that her output is overtuned.

2: Banshee was definitely in large part about the killing since a big part of it was to be a Focus Farm, which requires XP gain, and ability kills give Banshee 100% of the XP, making it a good method.

18 minutes ago, str4dlin said:

And if in the other hand she can rush low content and somebody doesnt like always he/she can solo that content or play with friends. Becase she is not the only. Gara, Volt or Equinox (I miss a bunch) and do it same. But numbers really are in the side of "Saryn is fine". Not needed videos everybody can check for themselves. Range? 20 meters. Damage by procs (150/sec) and not high. With the counter that she needs to be played for range (Overextended) what it does you have to sacrifice also the strength.

I call out mid-to-high level content, not low level content. And I'm aware, I might not have much experience but I have played her a little. 

Low level content gets messed with by virtue of the genre Warframe's in, there's not much saving it.

22 minutes ago, str4dlin said:

To compare, Gara has a base dmg of 800. Equinox can stack infinite damage, well. That now I mention with a similar fighting mechanic of what Saryn has.

And they cause the same issues Saryn does. As I said multiple times, it's not just Saryn causing these issues.

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15 minutes ago, uAir said:

Come carry me at ESO for 8 waves with your skill. Take me to 2 hour arbitration for rewards with a frame and equipment that takes "skill."
IGN: uAir

*coughs* Sonar Banshee *coughs*

Rhino

Hildryn

Frost (Kinda)

 

Just some salty saryn main who gets triggered when someone dares insult his no skilled main. (Because he realises he might have to use some skill if she gets nerfed).

You press 1 button then everything is done for you. You are not a good player

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30 minutes ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

Theres so much wrong with this I cannot even begin

 

Must be hard trying to dismiss what a person said when they keep responding huh?

 

30 minutes ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

The other guy said 150, you changed it to 80 for some reason, I changed it back to 150.

 

I told you the situation for when I tested it. The other guy tested at level 155, and couldnt nuke, I tested at a lower level and couldnt nuke. "For some reason" I lowered the testing bar and it still wasnt a nuke.

 

30 minutes ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

I am not dismissive I am just disagreeing. That is allowed. You are the exact same to me, do you see me crying about it? No?

 

You are incredibly dismissive as you completely miss what a person is saying and try to cherry pick what part you respond to. Yes, you are also disagreeing, but you do so while ignoring other things being said. That is being dismissive.

 

Also, "crying about it" is a pathetic attempt to try and label another person as simply whining in order to, again, be dismissive of what they have said. Don't do that in the future, it makes it look as if you cannot properly argue your points and merely want to shut down the conversation.

 

30 minutes ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

I don't need to play someone to know if they're a nuke. Infact, lets go over what a nuke is.

Someone who can deal huge DPS to a large amount of enemies.

Saryn is someone who can do just that with the synergy of her 1 and 4.

 

And volt can do it with JUST his 4, and Equoinox, and Banshee, and Frost (though a bit more niche) and Gara, and tons of other frames. So why specifically this hate for Saryn? Because you don't like her and think she is braindead and requires no knowledge of game mechanics, yet, the only way to effectively get her DPS high, is to know the mechanics of how her abilities work.

 

I get it, you are sick of someone who uses Saryn and outkills you. You can't keep up, and want to see 25% damage and kills perfectly evenly spread across the mission results for some reason. It won't happen, ever, especially if someone for example runs a buffer frame, or support, while literally any frame that has DPS abilities in the game is playing. DPS frames do damage, its a shocking concept but thats how it is.

 

30 minutes ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

Never said I know everything.

 

And yet you refuse to test something when multiple people tell you that you are wrong. You imply from that action that you believe you already know. So go test yourself and return with the results

 

30 minutes ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

I don't to test something to see someone's mod setup

 

There are two ways I can interperet this statement. Either you dont want to test it without seeing someones mod setup maybe? Or you don't need to test something to see their mod setup? Would have been nice if you checked what you were saying before pressing submit.

 

Whatever the case, allow me to explain now why you all likely won't see Saryn reworked or nerfed in the coming weeks and months.

 

1. There are other frames who have fallen so far behind as far as their viability in this game, who are badly in need of a rework, who will be reworked and tweaked first.

 

2. Saryn is in a good place. Shes had multiple reworks and adjustments to get her to where she is now. A DPS frame. Very good at some content, absolutely horrible in other content.

 

3. Achieving high DPS with Saryn is not like the old RQ Banshee or WoF Ember. You literally cannot sit in one place with one ability on and bugger off to make a sandwich. It requires actually playing to achieve good damage with her. IF somehow you can show me how to press one button then walk away and the game plays itself with Saryn, please do so, as I'd love to get that taken away as I am against AFK gaming.

 

The only good argument I see in this thread is about how playing with Saryn basically means never seeing enemies in lower level content. Fine, I can attest to that, since as I already stated she can oblitterate Helene without ever taking a single bullet. Is there a fix for that short of nerfing her? Likely not. Does that mean I am suddenly now for a nerf? Absolutely not, unless you're also going to:

Take away volt 4

Take away Maim

Take away Peacemakers aimbot

Change how Gara works

Stop Banshees 4 from perma-stunlocking enemies in spawns (yes yes, the damage isnt great but you can keep it on almost forever still)

Change Novas 2 to no longer be able to deal 60 million damage on primed enemies

The list goes on, but I think by now you get the point.

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5 hours ago, Cubewano said:

So she is a mess? Yet also perfect? Nah. And it sounds more like you're not playing her right if I'm having such an easy time wiping with her and you aren't. 

I never said she is a mess! I said it can be tough managing spores at times! You have to find that last enemy still affected by spores and they can be pretty hidden sometimes.

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6 hours ago, Loza03 said:

This argument doesn't make much sense. Mostly because, by nature, nukes dictate things for others - when there's a nuke in the mission, you have to massive alter your playstyle around it or just accept the nuke. I could just as easily say "Play solo then. Stop trying to dictate people into nuking" and have it be just as valid.

It's not a productive line of argument. Clearly, if this many people have a problem with Saryn, then a problem exists, and a solution should be found.

Except there is no issue with Saryn! No problem exists. She is fine the way she is and if you don't like it, play solo or in premade groups.

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)deathwolfclaw666 said:

Yikes, some of these arguments are starting to get a bit out of hand.

I know, I mean somebody slung around the grand insult "Rat kid" this is really getting out of control.

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24 minutes ago, (XB1)RevenantRequiem said:

I never said she is a mess! I said it can be tough managing spores at times! You have to find that last enemy still affected by spores and they can be pretty hidden sometimes.

Touche

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9 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I know, I mean somebody slung around the grand insult "Rat kid" this is really getting out of control.

It just seems like this thread has turned into "here's my point and here's a mandatory insult to prove my point". 

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15 minutes ago, (XB1)RevenantRequiem said:

Except there is no issue with Saryn! No problem exists. She is fine the way she is and if you don't like it, play solo or in premade groups.

1: repeating the same argument doesn't make it any more productive.

2: Yes. There is a problem. As I've elaborated, nukes, alongside certain other power extremes, allow players to trivialise or circumvent the core gameplay mechanics, which in turn damage the game in ways far beyond the enjoyment or lack therof of a single mission.

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Just now, (PS4)deathwolfclaw666 said:

It just seems like this thread has turned into "here's my point and here's a mandatory insult to prove my point". 

Indeed, want some popcorn before the Mods show up?

pop popcorn GIF by Regal Cinemas

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25 minutes ago, (XB1)RevenantRequiem said:

Except there is no issue with Saryn! No problem exists. She is fine the way she is and if you don't like it, play solo or in premade groups.

Unless solo and premades magically redesign the games balance that's not a catch all fix (not that baring people from public matchmaking is a solution in and of itself either, that's just trading burdens)

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