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MrRixter

Can something be done about Saryn?

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He doesn't need a nerf lol. It's AoE dps frame makes stuff easier.Also it's utterly boring and brain dead after a while.

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13 hours ago, Giantconch said:

 

Must be hard trying to dismiss what a person said when they keep responding huh?

I'm not I'm simply disagreeing. Stop being a baby.

 

I told you the situation for when I tested it. The other guy tested at level 155, and couldnt nuke, I tested at a lower level and couldnt nuke. "For some reason" I lowered the testing bar and it still wasnt a nuke.

Because those are specialised enemies. Bombards have a f*** ton of health

 

You are incredibly dismissive as you completely miss what a person is saying and try to cherry pick what part you respond to. Yes, you are also disagreeing, but you do so while ignoring other things being said. That is being dismissive.

By that definition. So are you. It's called disagreeing. You refuse to see my point, I refuse to see yours. Stop acting like I'm doing anything different from you.

Also, "crying about it" is a pathetic attempt to try and label another person as simply whining in order to, again, be dismissive of what they have said. Don't do that in the future, it makes it look as if you cannot properly argue your points and merely want to shut down the conversation.

You are crying about it. You whinge because somebody dares to disagree with you, that somebody with an 'I win' button shouldn't be nerfed.

 

And volt can do it with JUST his 4, and Equoinox, and Banshee, and Frost (though a bit more niche) and Gara, and tons of other frames. So why specifically this hate for Saryn? Because you don't like her and think she is braindead and requires no knowledge of game mechanics, yet, the only way to effectively get her DPS high, is to know the mechanics of how her abilities work.

Because Saryn is the worst out of all of those nukers.

Also you're giving saryn mains too much credit. They literally just need range, ability strength and to read the descriptions of her abilities.

I get it, you are sick of someone who uses Saryn and outkills you. You can't keep up, and want to see 25% damage and kills perfectly evenly spread across the mission results for some reason. It won't happen, ever, especially if someone for example runs a buffer frame, or support, while literally any frame that has DPS abilities in the game is playing. DPS frames do damage, its a shocking concept but thats how it is.

I can make a build that easily surpasses saryn for 1. Most people can. I usually get 60-80% damage in missions so don't try that. Just saryns, even with their 20% damage do not earn, deserve or have to work for it.

 

And yet you refuse to test something when multiple people tell you that you are wrong. You imply from that action that you believe you already know. So go test yourself and return with the results

AGAIN. I PHYSICALLY CANNOT SEE IF HIS TEST IS VIABLE IF I DO NOT KNOW HIS BUILD. AM I SPEAKING FRENCH OR SOMETHING. IT'S CLEAR YOU'RE LACKING BRAINCELLS BUT TRY TO COMPREHEND WHAT I AM SAYING.

(by his definition he is being dismissive of my previous point and revamping his own...)

 

There are two ways I can interperet this statement. Either you dont want to test it without seeing someones mod setup maybe? Or you don't need to test something to see their mod setup? Would have been nice if you checked what you were saying before pressing submit.

Sorry English isn't my first language. I meant that I need to see his mod setup.

Whatever the case, allow me to explain now why you all likely won't see Saryn reworked or nerfed in the coming weeks and months.

OK

1. There are other frames who have fallen so far behind as far as their viability in this game, who are badly in need of a rework, who will be reworked and tweaked first.

Like who?

2. Saryn is in a good place. Shes had multiple reworks and adjustments to get her to where she is now. A DPS frame. Very good at some content, absolutely horrible in other content.

Disagree

3. Achieving high DPS with Saryn is not like the old RQ Banshee or WoF Ember. You literally cannot sit in one place with one ability on and bugger off to make a sandwich. It requires actually playing to achieve good damage with her. IF somehow you can show me how to press one button then walk away and the game plays itself with Saryn, please do so, as I'd love to get that taken away as I am against AFK gaming.

You press 2 buttons. That's it. Maybe use your skin molt once or twice.

The only good argument I see in this thread is about how playing with Saryn basically means never seeing enemies in lower level content. Fine, I can attest to that, since as I already stated she can oblitterate Helene without ever taking a single bullet. Is there a fix for that short of nerfing her? Likely not. Does that mean I am suddenly now for a nerf? Absolutely not, unless you're also going to:

Take away volt 4

That's a different argument but tbh I agree.

Take away Maim

True

Take away Peacemakers aimbot

That would be reworking the full ability. Maybe, a damage cap?

Change how Gara works

Fair enough

Stop Banshees 4 from perma-stunlocking enemies in spawns (yes yes, the damage isnt great but you can keep it on almost forever still)

Good nerf, probably not on the A list though

Change Novas 2 to no longer be able to deal 60 million damage on primed enemies

I don't use nova, but if thats possible, that's op.

The list goes on, but I think by now you get the point.

 

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11 hours ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

you are playing saryn wrong if you think it is about pressing 1 or 4

That's how her nuker works 

11 hours ago, uAir said:

I'm online. Please level me at ESO with your Rhino, or Hildryn, or Frost (kinda). I just want to see your skill in action and get some exp out of it. We're both on PC so it works out. 🙂

2 things.

1. If you cannot make a build to do well in ESO without some warframe that does everything for you. You are doing something wrong. Fact. That's pretty embarrassing. And a bit sad that you rely on carries like that to do everything for you

2. I'm not online right now.

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1 minute ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

And a bit sad that you rely on carries like that to do everything for you

Are we playing the same Warframe? This game has like two states.

  1. Carry 
  2. Carried

You're pretty much doing one of the two and it's pretty much frame agnostic, cause with the right weapon you can carry with a ham sandwitch. It's a Power fantasy it's just how it rolls. 

 

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18 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Are we playing the same Warframe? This game has like two states.

  1. Carry 
  2.  Carried

You're pretty much doing one of the two and it's pretty much frame agnostic, cause with the right weapon you can carry with a ham sandwitch. It's a Power fantasy it's just how it rolls. 

 

I'm aware, but some frames DPS isnt proportional to others

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18 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Are we playing the same Warframe? This game has like two states.

  1. Carry 
  2.  Carried

You're pretty much doing one of the two and it's pretty much frame agnostic, cause with the right weapon you can carry with a ham sandwitch. It's a Power fantasy it's just how it rolls. 

 

I'm aware, but some frames DPS isnt proportional to others

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18 minutes ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

I'm aware, but some frames DPS isnt proportional to others

Why does damage output need to be proportional? 

I mean damage mitigation certainly isn't, I could never facetank the Profit Taker with Nova but Inaros can go the whole fight without flinching, not even trying to dodge attacks. I mean I could say that certainly isn't fair because what if I wanted my Saryn to be able to face tank the profit taker? 

Nuke frames are as all things a tool to facilitate a playstyle. In this instance killing things as fast and efficiently as possible. 

Having a different preferred is totally fine, just don't play or group with a Saryn. 

I know it can be a bit of a pain to have to leave a group because there is a frame you don't like but there is a frame or set of frames that each of us hate. 

 

For me, it's Nezha, Limbo and Mesa.. 

Nezha because people tend to be obnoxious when they play him always being well outside of affinity range while they Firewalk everything on the map. Any "leveling" map and a Nezha.... hard pass from me 90% of the time, cause that's exactly what they do. So if I was going to yeet one frame into space it would be Nezha before Saryn because at least Saryns know how to share, even if it's only Affinity.  

Limbos are touch and go because a good limbo can be good and then there is the full map timestop limbo that brings everything to a crawl for no reason and on anything that isn't "wait out the clock" that's a problem. 

And Mesa, Mesas don't get a rhyme..... they're just boring. She's boring to play, she's boring to play with.....,

.....but at the same time I'm always free to leave, so for the most part I don't care that someone likes to play a super obnoxious Nezha or plays a bad Limbo or reads a book while they pilot a Mesa. 

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11 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Why does damage output need to be proportional?  

I mean damage mitigation certainly isn't, I could never facetank the Profit Taker with Nova but Inaros can go the whole fight without flinching, not even trying to dodge attacks. I mean I could say that certainly isn't fair because what if I wanted my Saryn to be able to face tank the profit taker? 

Nuke frames are as all things a tool to facilitate a playstyle. In this instance killing things as fast and efficiently as possible. 

Having a different preferred is totally fine, just don't play or group with a Saryn. 

I know it can be a bit of a pain to have to leave a group because there is a frame you don't like but there is a frame or set of frames that each of us hate. 

And, see, here's why power of all kinds needs to be proportional to the game it's in. Nukes, immortals - those are examples of power not being proportional.

You've literally out-and-out admitted you can completely invalidate the Profit-Taker boss fight. If you can't die, then it's not a fight, is it? That's supposed to be end-game content, and Inaros can basically nullify it entirely.

There's player characters entering roles, and then there's breaking the game. There's a lot of characters in games about killing things really fast. Rarely does it let them completely turn off the game for other players or render them entirely untouchable. Dynasty Warriors, a game WF is frequently compared to, throws enemies that can't be disregarded at the player all the time - captains, commanders and the like. The only equivalent in Warframe is Nullifiers, and they are only that way because they literally turn off half the combat system. They should be a rare and powerful threat kind of enemy, not something that is spammed frequently.

At least a part of the enemies should always be able to pose a threat in a game centred around combat. Combat is, after all, in large part about the threat, the 'puzzle' of how best to win the situation you're in with the tools you've got. If the player can't lose or can avoid actually encountering enemies (CC is counted in this, an enemy with AI turned off throughout the fight is not actually being encountered). It takes two to tango, as they say.

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1 hour ago, Oreades said:

Why does damage output need to be proportional? 

I mean damage mitigation certainly isn't, I could never facetank the Profit Taker with Nova but Inaros can go the whole fight without flinching, not even trying to dodge attacks. I mean I could say that certainly isn't fair because what if I wanted my Saryn to be able to face tank the profit taker? 

Nuke frames are as all things a tool to facilitate a playstyle. In this instance killing things as fast and efficiently as possible. 

Having a different preferred is totally fine, just don't play or group with a Saryn. 

I know it can be a bit of a pain to have to leave a group because there is a frame you don't like but there is a frame or set of frames that each of us hate. 

 

For me, it's Nezha, Limbo and Mesa.. 

Nezha because people tend to be obnoxious when they play him always being well outside of affinity range while they Firewalk everything on the map. Any "leveling" map and a Nezha.... hard pass from me 90% of the time, cause that's exactly what they do. So if I was going to yeet one frame into space it would be Nezha before Saryn because at least Saryns know how to share, even if it's only Affinity.  

Limbos are touch and go because a good limbo can be good and then there is the full map timestop limbo that brings everything to a crawl for no reason and on anything that isn't "wait out the clock" that's a problem. 

And Mesa, Mesas don't get a rhyme..... they're just boring. She's boring to play, she's boring to play with.....,

.....but at the same time I'm always free to leave, so for the most part I don't care that someone likes to play a super obnoxious Nezha or plays a bad Limbo or reads a book while they pilot a Mesa. 

The first sentence is just opinion. I know it's a dead game, but if you look at overwatch, you will see a fairly balanced game and system. DPS's aren't too OP and are in balance with tanks. Thats why I still like and play it to this day.

I feel like the bridge between DPS, tanks and suport frames has gone too far. Just my opinion. I know many others disagree.

 

I agree with the rest though. (Also I only use Mesa if I have stuff to level.)

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Just now, InfinitusPhoenix said:

Looking at the number of pages she will get a nerf soon 100%

That would be true if it was full outrage. The opinions here are very mixed

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

And, see, here's why power of all kinds needs to be proportional to the game it's in. Nukes, immortals - those are examples of power not being proportional.

Again we are back to, why? 

Disproportionate abilities offer different playstyles and the end user is always in charge of the playstyle that they prefer. 

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

You've literally out-and-out admitted you can completely invalidate the Profit-Taker boss fight. If you can't die, then it's not a fight, is it? That's supposed to be end-game content, and Inaros can basically nullify it entirely.

If ever there was a fight that deserved to be invalidated it is the Profit Taker fight, Tho interestingly enough based on how I've seen people classify challenge in the past, it wastes a non insignificant amount of my time therefore it is still "challenging" at least according to the "time required to complete = challenge" school of thought. Not that I agree with that and it's still a miserable fight but at least I never have to go back to it, until the next time Nightwave forces me to. 

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

There's player characters entering roles, and then there's breaking the game. There's a lot of characters in games about killing things really fast. Rarely does it let them completely turn off the game for other players or render them entirely untouchable. Dynasty Warriors, a game WF is frequently compared to, throws enemies that can't be disregarded at the player all the time - captains, commanders and the like. The only equivalent in Warframe is Nullifiers, and they are only that way because they literally turn off half the combat system. They should be a rare and powerful threat kind of enemy, not something that is spammed frequently.

And yet I don't play Dynasty Warridors because I find it to be horrible and boring. 

Sooo just keep slathering the game with enemies that completely invalidate Warframe abilities and weapon effects until it's just what? Another run of the mill cover based shooter? 

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

At least a part of the enemies should always be able to pose a threat in a game centred around combat. Combat is, after all, in large part about the threat, the 'puzzle' of how best to win the situation you're in with the tools you've got. If the player can't lose or can avoid actually encountering enemies (CC is counted in this, an enemy with AI turned off throughout the fight is not actually being encountered). It takes two to tango, as they say.

We already choose how you tackle the encounter based on the weapon and frames that you select and group with. You can do things the difficult way full of hard fought challenge or you can do things the easy way by leveraging more of the games mechanics. How do you think endurance runs get done? Cause it's by leveraging mechanics that break the game but people still consider the application to be a skill. 

Embrace the chaos, enjoy the ride and if you find a playstyle you don't like, don't engage with it but don't try to nerf it until it fit's into yours. 

I think the most frustrating thing in these forums (and this is a bit of a tangent) is reading complaints that the game is too easy, knowing full well that Warframe is a game where the player has full control of the difficulty. They are CHOOSING to play in a manor that they don't enjoy and then refusing to use the tools they HAVE at their disposal to play in a way they do. It's like watching someone with peanut allergies who just absolutely refuses to stop eating peanuts and keeps petitioning for a region wide peanut ban. 

Edit:

Or since I'm into tangential analogies the old Minecraft Forums back when I read them, there was almost always a thread about how Mojang NEEDED to nerf dirt blocks because someone was offended at the very notion that while they had build this huge stone castle of granditude, someone somewhere else, not even in their game.... was having just as much fun and all they built was but a lowly house out of dirt blocks. 

Edited by Oreades

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23 minutes ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

That would be true if it was full outrage. The opinions here are very mixed

Mixed means a nerf. 

Players leave the game because of Saryn. DE will obviously nerf her. That's the only logical option.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Again we are back to, why? 

Disproportionate abilities offer different playstyles and the end user is always in charge of the playstyle that they prefer. 

If ever there was a fight that deserved to be invalidated it is the Profit Taker fight, Tho interestingly enough based on how I've seen people classify challenge in the past, it wastes a non insignificant amount of my time therefore it is still "challenging" at least according to the "time required to complete = challenge" school of thought. Not that I agree with that and it's still a miserable fight but at least I never have to go back to it, until the next time Nightwave forces me to. 

And yet I don't play Dynasty Warridors because I find it to be horrible and boring. 

Sooo just keep slathering the game with enemies that completely invalidate Warframe abilities and weapon effects until it's just what? Another run of the mill cover based shooter? 

We already choose how you tackle the encounter based on the weapon and frames that you select and group with. You can do things the difficult way full of hard fought challenge or you can do things the easy way by leveraging more of the games mechanics. How do you think endurance runs get done? Cause it's by leveraging mechanics that break the game but people still consider the application to be a skill. 

Embrace the chaos, enjoy the ride and if you find a playstyle you don't like, don't engage with it but don't try to nerf it until it fit's into yours. 

I think the most frustrating thing in these forums (and this is a bit of a tangent) is reading complaints that the game is too easy, knowing full well that Warframe is a game where the player has full control of the difficulty. They are CHOOSING to play in a manor that they don't enjoy and then refusing to use the tools they HAVE at their disposal to play in a way they do. It's like watching someone with peanut allergies who just absolutely refuses to stop eating peanuts and keeps petitioning for a region wide peanut ban. 

You stated that saryn shouldn't get nerfed because people should have the freedom of playing the way they want. Yes,  freedom of playstyle is important.  The problem is, saryn's ability to completely empty the map of any enemy distrupts every other player's playstyles. People wouldn't be against perma nuking abilities if it didn't force them to put down their controller/mouse and watch the clock tick. In fact, this forced a lot of my veteran friends into only playing solo for years.

And your statement that people should use the best tools they are given etc and ignore how broken they are is..  that's just an odd way of seeing it. It might be true for single player games,  but  a multiplayer? What's next? We should be allowed to use god-mode cheats because that's my playstyle? 

Edited by goatwin
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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, InfinitusPhoenix said:

Mixed means a nerf. 

Players leave the game because of Saryn. DE will obviously nerf her. That's the only logical option.

True. But salty saryn mains will leave the game if she gets nerfed

Edit: And honestly I don't care about saryn enough to leave the game. I'd just rather her be fixed.

Edited by WoodedSkate89

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1 minute ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

True. But salty saryn mains will leave the game if she gets nerfed

What if I told you people who main any frame do not know how to play the game correctly and should uninstall. 

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1 minute ago, sungod1 said:

What if I told you people who main any frame do not know how to play the game correctly and should uninstall. 

Not how it works... Think about your arguments before presenting.

Some frames require skill and others do not.

A frame with an "I Win" button does not require skill.

Frames which require harder builds and use of abilities. Do require skill.

 

Obviously 

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3 hours ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

2 things.

1. If you cannot make a build to do well in ESO without some warframe that does everything for you. You are doing something wrong. Fact. That's pretty embarrassing. And a bit sad that you rely on carries like that to do everything for you

2. I'm not online right now. 

I need someone to carry me to level up my stuff. You said you can do it with skill with hildryn, rhino, and not using an aoe skill spam clear frame.

So please do. I want to see it. Because yes, I'm calling your bluff. We're both on PC, you can host. We'll pop into a duo ESO and I just want to see you non-aoe clear your way through 8 waves of ESO. For the sake of your viewpoint and to prove me wrong.

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7 minutes ago, goatwin said:

You stated that saryn shouldn't get nerfed because people should have the freedom of playing the way they want. Yes,  freedom of playstyle is important.  The problem is, saryn's ability to completely empty the map of any enemies distrupts every other player's playstyles. People wouldn't be against perma nuking abilities if it didn't force them to put down their controller/mouse and watch the clock tick. In fact, this forced a lot of my veteran friends into only playing solo for years.

You hardly need to play solo to play with people who don't disrupt your play style. 

Just roll another group and if the PUG groups have failed you still have two options that aren't solo. Hitting up LFG to find a group of like minded individuals or just play the game with the disruptive frame accepting the fact that you aren't going to get your way every time. 

I play with Mesas, don't particularly like em but whatever it's not like every group I play in has a Mesa in it or a Limbo or a Nezha. Hell I even PUG into SO/ESO groups that do just fine without a Saryn. 

Going solo is not the only option, your friend is choosing it. 

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3 minutes ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

Some frames require skill and others do not.

A frame with an "I Win" button does not require skill.

Frames which require harder builds and use of abilities. Do require skill.

I know I'm probably the worst judge of skill but what are these frames you are talking of?

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1 minute ago, (PS4)deathwolfclaw666 said:

I know I'm probably the worst judge of skill but what are these frames you are talking of?

Hildryn

Rhino

Frost

Oberon

Wukong

Zephyr

Wisp

 

You might disagree with some of those

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5 minutes ago, uAir said:

I need someone to carry me to level up my stuff. You said you can do it with skill with hildryn, rhino, and not using an aoe skill spam clear frame.

So please do. I want to see it. Because yes, I'm calling your bluff. We're both on PC, you can host. We'll pop into a duo ESO and I just want to see you non-aoe clear your way through 8 waves of ESO. For the sake of your viewpoint and to prove me wrong.

This guy really wants a carry lol.

I'm on a different game right now. I'm not coming online just to carry some MR6 or whatever

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Oreades said:

You hardly need to play solo to play with people who don't disrupt your play style. 

Just roll another group and if the PUG groups have failed you still have two options that aren't solo. Hitting up LFG to find a group of like minded individuals or just play the game with the disruptive frame accepting the fact that you aren't going to get your way every time. 

I play with Mesas, don't particularly like em but whatever it's not like every group I play in has a Mesa in it or a Limbo or a Nezha. Hell I even PUG into SO/ESO groups that do just fine without a Saryn. 

Going solo is not the only option, your friend is choosing it. 

Of course, there are other options. But i'm talking about the better option. The one where we don't need to constantly exit games or spend valuable time in lfg instead of playing: make it so no playstyle is at the cost of anybody elses playstyle.

Going solo is not the only option, some people might only see saryn a few times a week, but some others had to waste 2 hours of their time sitting around doing nothing because 8 out 10 of their sessions are filled with saryn

Edited by goatwin
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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

This guy really wants a carry lol.

I'm on a different game right now. I'm not coming online just to carry some MR6 or whatever

IGN: uAir

I've added you. I want to see some real skill.

Edited by uAir

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, uAir said:

IGN: uAir

I've added you. I want to see some real skill.

AGAIN. I AM IN THE MIDDLE OF A GAME. I WILL CARRY YOU LATER

Edited by WoodedSkate89

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