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Can something be done about Saryn?

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Just now, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

Let see how far till beaten horse corpse 

We passed that a while back, thankfully it got a job starring in that Duviri Paradox trailer.

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The main topic is moot.

The OP, who has been playing less than a month, got schooled in a Sortie by a player that just happened to be playing Saryn. If that player had been on Nezha, or Mesa, or any of the other dozen frames capable of clearing maps quickly, the post would be about that.

The whole issue the OP has (more than likely, hard to say as they have abandoned the post after the first two forum posts they ever made) is simply a lack of mods with a need for a bit more time/experience in the game.

So the whole post has moved off-topic from Saryn-haters jumping in with nothing but complaints that have no basis. "Saryn is a DPS god and is OP af!!!" Which is, of course, why every squad takes a Saryn (that's sarcasm btw).

Saryn IS OP, but only in ESO and SO where the mob density shoots her Spores up to max quickly. Which is why DE capped the damage after the initial re-work of non-capped damage on Spores. Personally, her old Spores were more deadly. They used to spread on death of the infected, not by having the Spore popped buy weapons, and I had it to come out the gate ticcing off 10-13k damage. Of course, that didn't ramp up, but it really didn't need to.

Players build their frames to head into endurance runs that take them into the high hundreds in enemy levels. So Sortie levels of 150 max are just trash mobs. I've done runs to 1900 or so, but I'll freely admit I was being carried after the levels hit 1500 or so. I believe the record for hitting 10k level enemies was in a Defense. Close to 700 waves iirc. Which was done solo with Ivara.

So yeah, Saryn can nuke a map with low level enemies. So what? So can a good Tigris Prime, heh.

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7 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

The main topic is moot.

The OP, who has been playing less than a month, got schooled in a Sortie by a player that just happened to be playing Saryn. If that player had been on Nezha, or Mesa, or any of the other dozen frames capable of clearing maps quickly, the post would be about that.

The whole issue the OP has (more than likely, hard to say as they have abandoned the post after the first two forum posts they ever made) is simply a lack of mods with a need for a bit more time/experience in the game.

So the whole post has moved off-topic from Saryn-haters jumping in with nothing but complaints that have no basis. "Saryn is a DPS god and is OP af!!!" Which is, of course, why every squad takes a Saryn (that's sarcasm btw).

Saryn IS OP, but only in ESO and SO where the mob density shoots her Spores up to max quickly. Which is why DE capped the damage after the initial re-work of non-capped damage on Spores. Personally, her old Spores were more deadly. They used to spread on death of the infected, not by having the Spore popped buy weapons, and I had it to come out the gate ticcing off 10-13k damage. Of course, that didn't ramp up, but it really didn't need to.

Players build their frames to head into endurance runs that take them into the high hundreds in enemy levels. So Sortie levels of 150 max are just trash mobs. I've done runs to 1900 or so, but I'll freely admit I was being carried after the levels hit 1500 or so. I believe the record for hitting 10k level enemies was in a Defense. Close to 700 waves iirc. Which was done solo with Ivara.

So yeah, Saryn can nuke a map with low level enemies. So what? So can a good Tigris Prime, heh.

Also Equinox ,Volt, Mesa, and an assortment of other frames kill low level enemies quickly so I guess they should be nerfed according to what OP thought then right? XD

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Just now, (XB1)Zweimander said:

Also Equinox ,Volt, Mesa, and an assortment of other frames kill low level enemies quickly so I guess they should be nerfed according to what OP thought then right? XD

Yup. Nerf any frame that a skilled player uses to out do a new player, hehe

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

I'm not a rhino main. But he does require skill. And I use a soma prime or a paris prime. (Weapons that require aim)
 

I don't get outdamaged

Do you think the entire forum is full of idiots?

Which one of your assortment of obvious lies are you going to present now to tell me how I've not red it? You also top damage with a Lex and Trinity?

Why is every new player going for Rhino, because he requires skill? No, because he IS the noobframe, he invalidates the most of gameplay by reducing the value of propper modding in the early stages and teaches facetanking.

People may have their differences in this topic, but I bet my shiny metal ass that we all could agree that any of us will outdamage your Rhino+Soma so bad you may actually put a filter in that empty spot between your brain and you input function.

 

Edited by Ver1dian
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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

Do you think the entire forum is full of idiots?

Which one of your assortment of obvious lies are you going to present now to tell me how I've not red it? You also top damage with a Lex and Trinity?

Why is every new player going for Rhino, because he requires skill? No, because he IS the noobframe, he invalidates the most of gameplay by reducing the value of propper modding in the early stages and teaches facetanking.

People may have their differences, but I bet my shiny metal ass that we all could agree that any of us will outdamage your Rhino+Soma so bad you may actually put a filter in that empty spot between your brain and you input function.

  

Indeed, I am fairly certain any one of my many loadouts without any changes regardless of the mission would out damage him by a large margin in most cases.

Edited by (XB1)Zweimander

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

The main topic is moot.

The OP, who has been playing less than a month, got schooled in a Sortie by a player that just happened to be playing Saryn. If that player had been on Nezha, or Mesa, or any of the other dozen frames capable of clearing maps quickly, the post would be about that.

The whole issue the OP has (more than likely, hard to say as they have abandoned the post after the first two forum posts they ever made) is simply a lack of mods with a need for a bit more time/experience in the game.

So the whole post has moved off-topic from Saryn-haters jumping in with nothing but complaints that have no basis. "Saryn is a DPS god and is OP af!!!" Which is, of course, why every squad takes a Saryn (that's sarcasm btw).

 Saryn IS OP, but only in ESO and SO where the mob density shoots her Spores up to max quickly. Which is why DE capped the damage after the initial re-work of non-capped damage on Spores. Personally, her old Spores were more deadly. They used to spread on death of the infected, not by having the Spore popped buy weapons, and I had it to come out the gate ticcing off 10-13k damage. Of course, that didn't ramp up, but it really didn't need to.

Players build their frames to head into endurance runs that take them into the high hundreds in enemy levels. So Sortie levels of 150 max are just trash mobs. I've done runs to 1900 or so, but I'll freely admit I was being carried after the levels hit 1500 or so. I believe the record for hitting 10k level enemies was in a Defense. Close to 700 waves iirc. Which was done solo with Ivara.

 So yeah, Saryn can nuke a map with low level enemies. So what? So can a good Tigris Prime, heh.

Do you want an applause or what? the problem is for  new players watching other players nuking everything and this is very frustrating for someone even because to level up weapons it's not the best solution. This is intended for everything able to cut off the fun from other players: banshee, volt and blah blah blah...

Spamming abilities is the main problem of warframe.

Edited by bibmobello
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1 minute ago, bibmobello said:

Do you want an applause or what? the problem is for  new players watching other players nuking everything and this is very frustrating for someone even because to level up weapons it's not the best solution. This is intended for everything able to cut off the fun from other players: banshee, volt and blah blah blah...

Spamming abilities is the main problem of warframe.

No applause needed. How about some common sense instead.

The new player was frustrated in a SORTIE!!!!!! If that Saryn hadn't been wiping the map, they would have been frustrated from being DEAD. The OP didn't even say the Saryn was spamming Spores. Just that they couldn't get a kill. For all anyone knows, that Saryn was killing with their weapons too fast for the OP to keep up. No one knows.

Want to play and not be frustrated? Play your level until you can step up. Testing the waters is fine, but don't whine when you can swim.

And jumping on players spamming abilities is just dumb. So says Trinity trying to keep newbies alive.

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why is this mess of a thread still going...? it achieve nothing except giving crybabies a place to whine about how they don't get the most kills.

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6 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

No applause needed. How about some common sense instead.

 The new player was frustrated in a SORTIE!!!!!! If that Saryn hadn't been wiping the map, they would have been frustrated from being DEAD. The OP didn't even say the Saryn was spamming Spores. Just that they couldn't get a kill. For all anyone knows, that Saryn was killing with their weapons too fast for the OP to keep up. No one knows.

Want to play and not be frustrated? Play your level until you can step up. Testing the waters is fine, but don't whine when you can swim.

And jumping on players spamming abilities is just dumb. So says Trinity trying to keep newbies alive.

Being able to spam Aoe abilities is dumb and negating that is even more dumb! No "serious" game allows that! 

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33 minutes ago, (XB1)Zweimander said:

Also Equinox ,Volt, Mesa, and an assortment of other frames kill low level enemies quickly so I guess they should be nerfed according to what OP thought then right? XD

Yes, and they should be. 

33 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

Yup. Nerf any frame that a skilled player uses to out do a new player, hehe

Nerf any frame that can completely deny other players even the option of engagement in a co-op game, yes. (and no their effects are not exclusive to veteran versus new player)

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19 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

Do you think the entire forum is full of idiots?

Ummm no...

Which one of your assortment of obvious lies are you going to present now to tell me how I've not red it? You also top damage with a Lex and Trinity?

You can get godly soma builds. I got a really good riven for it and I never stopped using it.

Why is every new player going for Rhino, because he requires skill? No, because he IS the noobframe, he invalidates the most of gameplay by reducing the value of propper modding in the early stages and teaches facetanking.

New players go for rhino because he is the first frame you unlock. And no. He doesn't reduce the value of modding. You can literally mod rhino out correctly to have 1 million iron skin. (With the right augment, which also inspires syndicate interest)

People may have their differences in this topic, but I bet my shiny metal ass that we all could agree that any of us will outdamage your Rhino+Soma so bad you may actually put a filter in that empty spot between your brain and you input function.

It's really ironic btw how you meant to say empty spot between my ears and messed up by putting brain. Wtf can I have between my brain. Between requires 2 nouns to make it work. You gave 1. You try calling me an idiot but you made a basic year 3 error. English isn't even my first language and I'm correcting you smh.

And I'm just saying, if built right, soma prime can be as good as ignis wraith. (Also luck with rivens)

Imma quote somebody who said this earlier

Quote

I just came back to this thread and there's some chucklehead saying rhino doesn't require skill

 

 

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Just now, Cubewano said:

Yes, and they should be. 

Nerf any frame that can completely deny other players even the option of engagement in a co-op game, yes. (and no their effects are not exclusive to veteran versus new player)

I have never found someone I agree with more

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9 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

No applause needed. How about some common sense instead.

The new player was frustrated in a SORTIE!!!!!! If that Saryn hadn't been wiping the map, they would have been frustrated from being DEAD. The OP didn't even say the Saryn was spamming Spores. Just that they couldn't get a kill. For all anyone knows, that Saryn was killing with their weapons too fast for the OP to keep up. No one knows.

Want to play and not be frustrated? Play your level until you can step up. Testing the waters is fine, but don't whine when you can swim.

And jumping on players spamming abilities is just dumb. So says Trinity trying to keep newbies alive.

If a learning curve affected this outcome you'd have a point, but the player being new, middling, or a veteran would not impede the effects of the situation the OP found themselves in. Saryn doesn't stop clearing rooms or do less damage and have less range based on how experienced or not other persons in their group are, and she will (among some others) clean house in a matter of moments regardless of your experience or knowledge, and that is the core issue. It is a tool with a design element so potent it can invalidate the game for others, and that is a problem, and it is not a state of affairs one should approve of. Being able to actually play the game you have offered up your time and possibly money to play should not be a means for debate, nor should it be put up to chance based on who you matchmake with during play, that is just a sign of broken game design, and broken balance. 

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19 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

No applause needed. How about some common sense instead.

The new player was frustrated in a SORTIE!!!!!! If that Saryn hadn't been wiping the map, they would have been frustrated from being DEAD. The OP didn't even say the Saryn was spamming Spores. Just that they couldn't get a kill. For all anyone knows, that Saryn was killing with their weapons too fast for the OP to keep up. No one knows.

Want to play and not be frustrated? Play your level until you can step up. Testing the waters is fine, but don't whine when you can swim.

And jumping on players spamming abilities is just dumb. So says Trinity trying to keep newbies alive.

The Vibe I'm getting is that you don't like new players in sorties. If so...

I'm as against new players in sorties as you.

But it's not like DE will change it, so suck it up and carry

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1 hour ago, (XB1)Zweimander said:

I guarantee if I was on your platform with what I had if you brought anything else I could outdamage you as Sayrn or pretty much any other DPS in the game. Also I dont really go down at all in most game modes with any frame because I know what I'm doing with each and every one of them. for example I got close to 3K kills in solo ESO the other day because I know how to build and use her. you on the other hand seem to lack knowledge of the game in general and have very narrow thoughts on what is good and or bad...

Why does this post now seem to boil down to a $&*^ swinging contest?

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1 minute ago, bibmobello said:

Being able to spam Aoe abilities is dumb and negating that is even more dumb! No "serious" game allows that! 

You do understand what "Horde Shooter" type games are? Right?

 

2 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

Nerf any frame that can completely deny other players even the option of engagement in a co-op game, yes. (and no their effects are not exclusive to veteran versus new player)

No frame does that. Players do. Not frames. it's been said by many, that getting kills with a Saryn on the field is pretty easy. I know I have no issue with it. So yeah, that's exclusive to new player problems.

If new players can mix with older players, then this gulf of skill level with exist. Other games fix this by preventing higher level players from going back to lower levels, or being de-leveled to lower levels if grouping with them. Since Warframe has no levels, DE can't do this. So one must gain the skills to keep up, or simply fall behind.

Thankfully, the number of skilled players that go into missions to just take the joy from new players is rare. (There are always a$$ hats). Most will take pains to help the new players out and to help them enjoy the game. In the OP's case, they went into a SORTIE they were not prepared for, in a Public match, and ran into someone that wanted to speedrun the boring crap and get through it for the crappy rewards on that crappy loot table (or maybe for NW). So it was a single instance, that will probably never be repeated.

2 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

If a learning curve affected this outcome you'd have a point, but the player being new, middling, or a veteran would not impede the effects of the situation the OP found themselves in. Saryn doesn't stop clearing rooms or do less damage and have less range based on how experienced or not other persons in their group are, and she will (among some others) clean house in a matter of moments regardless of your experience or knowledge, and that is the core issue. It is a tool with a design element so potent it can invalidate the game for others, and that is a problem, and it is not a state of affairs one should approve of. Being able to actually play the game you have offered up your time and possibly money to play should not be a means for debate, nor should it be put up to chance based on who you matchmake with during play, that is just a sign of broken game design, and broken balance. 

There is a learning curve involved. Learn to get ahead of Saryn. Not hard to do. She, or her squad, has to work at spreading her Spores for her max damage on map clearing. Usually the mobs die off far to quickly to propagate through the map. Especially in Defense, where they degrade quickly between waves.

And Saryn's abilities do NOT clear maps as efficiently as you portend. If they did, EVERYONE would use her to cheeze maps. You can spout that some want challenge, but that's bull. Human nature will always take the easy path. So since not everyone is playing Saryn, she's not a press-to-win frame.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

Why does this post now seem to boil down to a $&*^ swinging contest?

Its just some saryn bragging about pressing the same 2 buttons over and over

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1 minute ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

The Vibe I'm getting is that you don't like new players in sorties. If so...

I'm as against new players in sorties as you.

But it's not like DE will change it, so suck it up and carry

ROFL, I don't care about new players in Sorties other than the fact they are probably going to die a lot and be frustrated with the game and quit.

I don't play Sorties as they are boring, and the rewards are crap. If DE makes the rewards worth it, I might do them, but as of now, I think I've completed a few dozen only.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

You do understand what "Horde Shooter" type games are? Right?

  

No frame does that. Players do. Not frames. it's been said by many, that getting kills with a Saryn on the field is pretty easy. I know I have no issue with it. So yeah, that's exclusive to new player problems.

If new players can mix with older players, then this gulf of skill level with exist. Other games fix this by preventing higher level players from going back to lower levels, or being de-leveled to lower levels if grouping with them. Since Warframe has no levels, DE can't do this. So one must gain the skills to keep up, or simply fall behind.

Thankfully, the number of skilled players that go into missions to just take the joy from new players is rare. (There are always a$$ hats). Most will take pains to help the new players out and to help them enjoy the game. In the OP's case, they went into a SORTIE they were not prepared for, in a Public match, and ran into someone that wanted to speedrun the boring crap and get through it for the crappy rewards on that crappy loot table (or maybe for NW). So it was a single instance, that will probably never be repeated.

There is a learning curve involved. Learn to get ahead of Saryn. Not hard to do. She, or her squad, has to work at spreading her Spores for her max damage on map clearing. Usually the mobs die off far to quickly to propagate through the map. Especially in Defense, where they degrade quickly between waves.

And Saryn's abilities do NOT clear maps as efficiently as you portend. If they did, EVERYONE would use her to cheeze maps. You can spout that some want challenge, but that's bull. Human nature will always take the easy path. So since not everyone is playing Saryn, she's not a press-to-win frame.

Do you understand that at the beginning this was not a   " farming horde looting random shooter" but it required some skills? i guess you don't... anyway they transformed this game to please people with no skill at all, now you are happy. The only difficulty  for newbies is that they have no idea how to play, they don't have any formed weapon and  frame because no one explained that in game.

Edited by bibmobello

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Thank the gaming gods 90% of you have ABSOLUTLY no say in what happens in this game. Or any game for that matter.  The amount of arm chair gaming developers in this forum is Frruuuking unreal. 

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

No frame does that. Players do. Not frames. it's been said by many, that getting kills with a Saryn on the field is pretty easy. I know I have no issue with it. So yeah, that's exclusive to new player problems.

If new players can mix with older players, then this gulf of skill level with exist. Other games fix this by preventing higher level players from going back to lower levels, or being de-leveled to lower levels if grouping with them. Since Warframe has no levels, DE can't do this. So one must gain the skills to keep up, or simply fall behind.

Thankfully, the number of skilled players that go into missions to just take the joy from new players is rare. (There are always a$$ hats). Most will take pains to help the new players out and to help them enjoy the game. In the OP's case, they went into a SORTIE they were not prepared for, in a Public match, and ran into someone that wanted to speedrun the boring crap and get through it for the crappy rewards on that crappy loot table (or maybe for NW). So it was a single instance, that will probably never be repeated.

There is a learning curve involved. Learn to get ahead of Saryn. Not hard to do. She, or her squad, has to work at spreading her Spores for her max damage on map clearing. Usually the mobs die off far to quickly to propagate through the map. Especially in Defense, where they degrade quickly between waves.

And Saryn's abilities do NOT clear maps as efficiently as you portend. If they did, EVERYONE would use her to cheeze maps. You can spout that some want challenge, but that's bull. Human nature will always take the easy path. So since not everyone is playing Saryn, she's not a press-to-win frame.

Yet here we are with people citing those very experiences, even I a veteran player with full knowledge of the games systems, with all the gear, all the mods, all the progression antics that climb you to this supposed pinnacle of power. It's not a fabrication, and it's not a case of needing to grow stronger, it's just an objective design fault. The most that can be presently done to counter this issue is to play the same meta tools as these players, then hope to be the fastest to whichever room you're about to clean, but to that I'd say that's not a real solution. Forcing every to be a meta player to get to play or otherwise be left behind and excluded is not a solution, nor does it really even solve anything other than for that select individual and only by trading the impact for the most part. At no point in a game should being excluded from play be a standard, at no point should the standard be either to be a carry or to be the carried and that be the end all design, play should be engaging, it should be involved, and all people should be able to contribute in all instances in a satisfying way. Learning to accept the fate at some period is not a solution. Forcing yourself into the same meta play is not a solution. Cutting yourself off from matchmaking is not a solution. They are all just various forms of hindrance to put off actually addressing the problem and solving it. 

Edited by Cubewano
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45 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

:facepalm:

At this point, we need mods. 

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