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Can something be done about Saryn?


MrRixter
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2 hours ago, (XB1)GaussPrime said:

My question is, how can a thread full of insults and derailing be in feedback? 🤔 Mods don't make sense anymore..

On topic: just enjoy the few minutes of carrying and continue on after the mission. 

You act like saryn is in every single mission in the entire game which is just not true.

People take her into mission to speed it up because they already played those missions thousands of times.

I'm wondering the same thing. There was a mod locking other threads which is likely how this one got moved. But it seems like the mod didn't even bother to read OP's post or even look at some of the last few pages before dumping this trash here. It not being locked may be down to no one bothering to report it because we're too busy laughing at the people tossing around insults.  

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Nothing should be done to Saryn. Your childish vining already caused several nerfs. Ember has been literally destroyed as a frame by a small bunch of people constantly complaining.
Saryn is still a perfect frame for SO/ESO, but yet, she's very limited on anything else. You don't seem to take it on account, are you?
Basically you want to nerf a frame for being good at the sole thing he's supposed to be good at. That's frankly stupid.

 

And sometimes, it's even hypocritical. Nerf saryn, so that I can enjoy my meme strike killing spree again! Wonderful. Go on, m8
I'm not even mentioning volt/gara/any other thing that can even outperform Saryn on several occasions.

The only reason you're praying for the nerf, is that Saryn is overused. Everybody knows how to build her. Once you nerf her, believe me, you'll see Gara everyfockingthere. And it's gonna be the same vining again. Just accept your god damn fate. Don't play with Saryn players, if you don't like it. Why should everybody else suffer because of you not getting something so easy to understand?

Edited by TeaHawk
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il y a 10 minutes, TeaHawk a dit :
Just accept your god damn fate.Don't play with Saryn players, if you don't like it.Why should everybody else suffer because of you not getting something so easy to understand?

It's easy. Give the option to disable Saryn in my party. Once again, Saryn itself does not need nerf. Needs a nerf in combination 1-4-4-4-4-4-1-4-4-4-4. I'm not advocating the right that nuck frame shouldn't exist, but Saryn should have the same issues as Equinox so the team can help, not just stay in most of the content. There has never been a warframe that could destroy enemies just by standing still and pressing buttons.All warframes followed mechanics one way or another or had their own problems. But saryn has no problem at all, other than nullifiers and similar creatures she can distract with her skin. It's just the perfect frame to do nothing. The game should not encourage this.

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2 hours ago, zhellon said:

Once again, Saryn itself does not need nerf. Needs a nerf in combination 1-4-4-4-4-4-1-4-4-4-4.

->Saryn itself does not need nerf
->But saryn needs nerf
I'm a little bit confused. Can you help me?

2 hours ago, zhellon said:

Saryn should have the same issues

Saryn is a different frame. Why should it have same issues?

2 hours ago, zhellon said:

But saryn has no problem at all

She has a couple. She's not good at all at surviving anything higher than 60 lvl. She needs a healer/buffer.

She cannot stockpile energy. As enemies she's killing are dying far away, she can sometimes run out of energy.
After combining these two flaws it's not hard to understand, that Saryn nuker requiers some help to be effective.

Then, Saryn is not a good frame for any relic opening due to her ability to destroy enemies before they get charged by void.
Then, Saryn is not a good choice for Capture, Stealth, Rescue, Survival, Assassination, Eidolon/Profitaker hunting, etc.

The only thing that makes Saryn shine is her nuke abilities. And many of you want to take it away on premise that it is game-breaking.

2 hours ago, zhellon said:

It's just the perfect frame to do nothing.

You actually should manage stacks. I'm sorry to say that, but it's harder than press mesa's 4. And it's harder than Gara's 4-1-4-1 spamming. Oh, yeah, you probably don't even know what Gara can do. With energy digging kubrow and arcane energise you can literally stand on the one single spot the whole mission without moving at all and destroy everything. I've put some effort in finding good riven for melee. I've seen aoe damage scaling to numbers you won't believe.
Any Saryn I've seen could be outperformed by Staticor+Mirage combination at some point. Mesa is able to compete with saryn already after 6th room on ESO. And so on.

But no. Saryn is the evil one.

But you still don't get one simple thing: people are always going to look for meta. This is a keystone of any looter-shooter, of any grinding game. Currently Saryn is a victim of being simply over-hyped. But she's not the single, and surely not the best method. I want you to understand that. If you really want this to change, you need to change the whole system. You need to nerf a lot of content, re-balance enemies, loot drops, everything. You'll get to see the exact same threads about another nuking method soon otherwise.

 Also by complaining you only make matters worse, because every new player now thinks that Saryn is op and he should definitely make one.
 

Edited by TeaHawk
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il y a 3 minutes, TeaHawk a dit :
She has a couple. She's not good at all at surviving anything higher than 60 lvl. She needs a healer/buffer.

I have no problem even with level 200 mobs, why do you need support at level 60? Have you tried to use the skin, so as not to receive damage? Or use build on high EHP, because unlike Mesa or Equinox, Saryn has armor? But you can distract mobs for any level using the agro system of skin. If you have problems with damage, then we live in different worlds apart. Saryn does not need any support. Even the energy costs are quite small. 

il y a 7 minutes, TeaHawk a dit :

Saryn is a different frame. Why should it have same issues?

Certainly. The very mechanics of the dispute requires that YOU or YOUR ALLIES kill the mobs, in order that spores spread. It's a good system. But when you use your 4 ability - it's just all the breaks and it turns out that you don't need to do anything to spread the dispute. This mechanic needs to be changed, or provide a debuff to damage dispute. 

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1 minute ago, zhellon said:

I have no problem even with level 200 mobs, why do you need support at level 60? Have you tried to use the skin, so as not to receive damage? Or use build on high EHP, because unlike Mesa or Equinox, Saryn has armor? But you can distract mobs for any level using the agro system of skin. If you have problems with damage, then we live in different worlds apart. Saryn does not need any support. Even the energy costs are quite small. 

How many slots do you waste on defensive abilities. And how fast your Saryn is after these sacrifices in terms of eliminating enemies?

3 minutes ago, zhellon said:

The very mechanics of the dispute requires that YOU or YOUR ALLIES kill the mobs

Aren't you just killing the mobs by pressing 4?

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20 минут назад, TeaHawk сказал:

Aren't you just killing the mobs by pressing 4?

Disputes kill enemies and spread by themselves if they are under the influence of her 4 ability. Usually disputes, when killing enemies do not spread.

20 минут назад, TeaHawk сказал:

How many slots do you waste on defensive abilities. And how fast your Saryn is after these sacrifices in terms of eliminating enemies?

3 umbra mods, quick thinking, rage, energy increase, adaptation and mod +90% radius and -60% strength. Don't know how effective it is, but I don't see the difference, mobs die I will not die. Compared to other Saryn in the party, don't lag behind on kills and damage.So I don't really understand the difference between Saryn at 106% strength or 300% strength. Well except that Saryn 300% of the strength has no protection other than skin. Well maybe you will save 1 minute for every 30 minutes of mission.

Edited by zhellon
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Just now, zhellon said:

if they are under the influence of her 4 ability.

That means that you're actually consuming some energy to activate 4th ability to... kill. In other words you start killing enemies by pressing 4. Saying otherwise would have the same meaning as famous

 

"People don't kill — bullets do".

5 minutes ago, zhellon said:

3 umbra mods, quick thinking, rage, energy increase, adaptation and mod +90% radius and -60% strength.

How long do you stay on each type of missions? Which frames do you play with in team generally if you have a stable squad? How many enemies do you kill generally per 1h/8 ESO waves? And what is your average enemies killed percentage?
 

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3 минуты назад, TeaHawk сказал:
How long do you stay on each type of missions? Which frames do you play with in team generally if you have a stable squad? How many enemies do you kill generally per 1h/8 ESO waves?

I haven't played it in a long time, so I don't remember. Maby the 8 waves of the ESO 3.5 - 4K enemies. But I can be wrong about efficiency.

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3 minutes ago, zhellon said:

I haven't played it in a long time, so I don't remember. Maby the 8 waves of the ESO 3.5 - 4K enemies. But I can be wrong about efficiency.

In that case, I suggest we return to this topic after some further analysis. I'll check if actually Saryn can remain efficient with that kind of setup.
Also, I would like to know your efficiency and how you're supplied with energy on ESO. Are you using arcanes/energy kubrows, trinity-slaves?

Edited by TeaHawk
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Только что, TeaHawk сказал:
In that case, I suggest we return to this topic after some further analysis. I'll check if actually Saryn can remain efficient with that kind of setup.

Try. I went to such a build in solo. You can remove the umbra hp and put another mod. In any case, the fantasy to customize is there and you can not only spam 4, but also kill enemies in melee, while healing yourself and getting infinite energy. 

 

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2 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Try. I went to such a build in solo. You can remove the umbra hp and put another mod. In any case, the fantasy to customize is there and you can not only spam 4, but also kill enemies in melee, while healing yourself and getting infinite energy. 

 

I'm not familiar with melee. I'm afraid to do something the wrong way. Would you mind to share your build so I could make the same in sake of scientific precision?

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19 минут назад, TeaHawk сказал:

I'm not familiar with melee. I'm afraid to do something the wrong way. Would you mind to share your build so I could make the same in sake of scientific precision?

Спойлер

Vne2QbF.jpg

Well, let's try this one, I'm 100% sure of it.

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3 minutes ago, zhellon said:
  Hide contents

Vne2QbF.jpg

Well, let's try this one, I'm 100% sure of it.

Thanks! Also a good melee weapon is required, or I can just take almost anything like heat-sword put healing return in it and it will work?

Edited by TeaHawk
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Только что, TeaHawk сказал:

And a good melee weapon is required, or I can just take almost anything like heat-sword put healing return in it and it will work?

If you want to melee, then you should replace stretch with rage. I personally used the modular stuff or the spear hybrid build to heal from status. You can use any weapon you want or heal with the help of an operator. It doesn't matter. The main thing is to maintain your level of health and energy.

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1 minute ago, zhellon said:

If you want to melee, then you should replace stretch with rage. I personally used the modular stuff or the spear hybrid build to heal from status. You can use any weapon you want or heal with the help of an operator. It doesn't matter. The main thing is to maintain your level of health and energy.

Okay. I'll try that. However it sounds like a healthy rewarding game-play by so far to me.

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Только что, TeaHawk сказал:
Okay. I'll try that. However it sounds like a healthy rewarding game-play by so far to me.

I just ran into a problem when I couldn't play with other players in ESO. So came up with this build.  And then I learned that the skin is a good defense. But I don't play Saryn anymore. It's too boring and I never liked DPS frames. But again, I'm not interested in nerf Saryn because of my bias. I just want people who really play to get more profit than people who just stand and press buttons.

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4 minutes ago, zhellon said:

I just ran into a problem when I couldn't play with other players in ESO. So came up with this build.

Excuse me. Just last one. What was exactly the problem?

5 minutes ago, zhellon said:

I just want people who really play to get more profit than people who just stand and press buttons.

Me too. But nobody would win of nerfing what we have. Saryn is literally carrying a lot of people on SO/ESO. It's already a direct profit.
And as I explained previously, you can make Gara do the exact same thing: stand and press 2 buttons. Everything dies. You don't even need to watch after stacks. Just maxed range and a bunch of dmg mods in your melee.

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2 минуты назад, TeaHawk сказал:

What was exactly the problem?

Russia because of some political aspects blocked 3 ip addresses of the warframe, which is why the game worked incorrectly in terms of the system of interaction between players. (although this problem is now, but I solved it)

5 минут назад, TeaHawk сказал:
Me too.But nobody would win of nerfing what we have.Saryn is literally carrying a lot of people on SO/ESO.It's already a direct profit.

And as I explained previously, you can make Gara do the exact same thing: stand and press 2 buttons.Everything dies.You don't even need to watch after stacks.Just maxed range and a bunch of dmg mods in your melee.

Gara is also not a good example of a balanced frame. And I think that might change when Gara gets the opportunity to upgrade her 1 separately from melee weapons. In any case - there is a limit of damage. Saryn doesn't have this limit, plus the spores have the ability to take off armor, which is very useful because you can kill opponents of any level with an operator mine. I don't want saryn to be a very large nerf, but I would like to change her 4, for example, to remove the spore spread, but to keep the spore damage frozen (not increased or decreased) while the 4 ability is active. 

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14 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Russia because of some political aspects blocked 3 ip addresses of the warframe, which is why the game worked incorrectly in terms of the system of interaction between players. (although this problem is now, but I solved it)

Oh, at this point? I thought it was only war with Telegram or something

14 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Saryn doesn't have this limit, plus the spores have the ability to take off armor, which is very useful because you can kill opponents of any level with an operator mine. 

Which is good, assuming the insane armor scaling.

14 minutes ago, zhellon said:

I don't want saryn to be a very large nerf, but I would like to change her 4, for example, to remove the spore spread, but to keep the spore damage frozen (not increased or decreased) while the 4 ability is active. 

It will only make it rather painful to play as you'll need to permanently recast your 4 to see your dmg scaling.

Edited by TeaHawk
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2 минуты назад, TeaHawk сказал:

It will only make it rather painful to play as you'll need to permanently recast your 4 to see your dmg scaling.

I mean, your spore will only spread when you and your allies kill the enemy. But if you do not have time, you can use your 4 ability to fix/froze the damage numbers and avoid loss, and then use your 1, and then wait for the end of the ability and continue to increase the damage. Yes, it will not change the efficiency, but in my opinion it is more active gameplay. Plus it's more useful on overpower lvl where you can lose thousands of damage in seconds.

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31 minutes ago, zhellon said:

I mean, your spore will only spread when you and your allies kill the enemy. But if you do not have time, you can use your 4 ability to fix/froze the damage numbers and avoid loss, and then use your 1, and then wait for the end of the ability and continue to increase the damage. Yes, it will not change the efficiency, but in my opinion it is more active gameplay. Plus it's more useful on overpower lvl where you can lose thousands of damage in seconds.

It requires a lot of testing by good meta-aware players first. At first look it does not seem a bad idea. But you never know what can fail and ruin a frame in practice.

The problem is, that DE don't seem to acknowledge that and don't invest enough in real testing. Their nerfs and even reworks sometimes seem completely out of mind. In other words, I'm afraid that even a good idea executed unthoughtfully may ruin this frame. And I really don't want another Ember case in this game.

To conclude, I don't want DE to touch anything that actually works at least. We have a lot more work to do whith things they destroyed recently, to start with Ember, bows, AWARD SCALING, overall status dmg types, balance and so on and on.
I'd rather see them putting efforts in that scope. Because it's better to fix something already completely broken than try to hinder with something that works to make it better. At least it works. You understand what I mean?

Edited by TeaHawk
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