Can something be done about Saryn?

[Loza03]

4 hours ago, (XB1)RevenantRequiem said:

You have to put effort into wiping the map with Saryn. You're clearly mislead.

I find it hilarious that you're clearly not even reading what I'm writing.

Wiping the map entirely is the problem, regardless of having to put effort in or not.

[selig_fay]

1 минуту назад, (XB1)Zweimander сказал:

Except that isnt it at all. You also have to use Toxic lash and spead the spores. The loop goes as such. Tocix lash first to prep, spore and shoot, then miasma to wipe a group and most likley lose alot of damage when you hit 0 enemies spored. And if you have enough effeciency to really just spam 4 then it wont be as strong as it could be or have as much range/power. Their is sacrifice and a need to know what group of enemies to go after with toxic lash up to keep the damage going that people are unwilling to admit is needed to play her properly. And you as well as many others in this post refuse to admit it doe stake some skill and setup to truly use sayrn...

Because it is not necessary to play it properly. Simple pressing 1+4 you will be more effective than all the frames in the game. 

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

9 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Because it is not necessary to play it properly. Simple pressing 1+4 you will be more effective than all the frames in the game. 

Also false. Outside of endless missions other DPS and suppost frames do better in most mission types. You dont bring a sayrn to Spy, Rescue, exterminate or any other non endless mission type do you? Most will bring a different warframe then sayrn to any of these mission types because Sayrn is only good when their is a constant and fast flow of enemies to feed her spores. Now ESO is where most people tend to complain about her and that is no coincidence, it is catered to her playstyle and where she thrives the most. And that is okay because other frames have missions they are the best in as well.

So should ivara be nerfed because she trivializes spy? How about Oberon on that stupid grineer escort mission? Wisp because she makes Interception a total joke? And I could go on but Sayrns calling is in the most limiting mission type possible which even stope her from spamming 4 to begin with yet people still complain. If you hate frames being the best in a given mission type advocate nerfs to all those frames or else your being a hypocrite and you know it.

Edited August 11, 2019 by (XB1)Zweimander

[selig_fay]

8 минут назад, (XB1)Zweimander сказал:

And I could go on but Sayrns calling is in the most limiting mission type possible which even stope her fron spamming 4 to begin with yep people still complain. 

Lol? Saryn is effective in most content. In this case, you compare with frames that are simply effective in one thing and have problems with everything else. In small content, you don't really need to keep track of the numbers because they are quickly typed. In high content, you don't have to keep track of numbers because spores take off armor, and the operator can kill with mines. As you yourself said, Saryn is a good weapon buffer and the recent improvement in augmentations has made it even stronger. And you really have a good protection, which is absent in 80% of frames. (of course, if you know how to use it, and not just press the button). Saryn really effective in all but spy(and this is a problem you can fix by your operator). 1+4 has to change its mechanics because it is real easy. Because lazy people get rewarded for doing nothing. That's not what's supposed to be in the game.

 

[WoodedSkate89]

8 hours ago, (XB1)RevenantRequiem said:

You have to put effort into wiping the map with Saryn. You're clearly mislead.

What planet are you on.

You press 1 and everything is done for you

[DatDarkOne]

5 hours ago, zhellon said:

Lol? Saryn is effective in most content. In this case, you compare with frames that are simply effective in one thing and have problems with everything else.

Uhh, but the frames he mentioned don't have problems with everything else and only good for one thing.  

[selig_fay]

12 минут назад, DatDarkOne сказал:

Uhh, but the frames he mentioned don't have problems with everything else and only good for one thing.

Can I not explain the obvious? I've already done this above.

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, zhellon said:

Can I not explain the obvious? I've already done this above.

So, you think that a frame like Ivara is only good for spy huh?  Regardless of all the proven evidence showing otherwise.  Ok.  LOL 

edit:  Please explain your point in a way that makes logical sense and I'll back you up.  Otherwise.........

Edited August 11, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[selig_fay]

14 минут назад, DatDarkOne сказал:

Please explain your point in a way that makes logical sense and I'll back you up. Otherwise.........

It's easy. The game has some problems, such as protection of objects, armor, lack of energy, immune to the abilities of the mobs. Saryn solves almost all significant problems in solo and has no need for a team. Ivara has very good control, invisibility and nuck augment, but in most of the content Saryn can replace the whole kit with a skin. Oberon? Reducing armor is good. Radiation is very good. Immortality is even better. Increase allied damage? Perfectly. But Saryn can replace everything except immortality and spends less energy on it. Wisp - Yes, here I can agree she is useful, but it cannot Nuck all around and has bad armor reduction.

Add here that all of the above frames have a much smaller EHP than Saryn. 

[DatDarkOne]

36 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Saryn solves almost all significant problems in solo and has no need for a team. Ivara has very good control, invisibility and nuck augment, but in most of the content Saryn can replace the whole kit with a skin.

Now, outside of ESO, what missions types can Saryn actually do better than Ivara can solo.  Just do an actual comparison between the two for each mission type.  

Heck, even do the same for Oberon.  

I'm saying this because while you are saying that Saryn can do everything solo, I know for a fact that Ivara can actually do the whole game completely solo as I have done it.  

edit: Also if ehp was such a important factor, then why can a frame with lower ehp go longer in survivals than Saryn.  This one is mostly to point out that frame ehp doesn't always matter.  

edit 2:  While I have no problems with Saryn, some of these statements in this topic are either boosting her actual strengths or denying abilities of other frames to try and tell a false narrative.  

Edited August 11, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[selig_fay]

2 часа назад, DatDarkOne сказал:

I'm saying this because while you are saying that Saryn can do everything solo, I know for a fact that Ivara can actually do the whole game completely solo as I have done it.

edit: Also if ehp was such a important factor, then why can a frame with lower ehp go longer in survivals than Saryn.  This one is mostly to point out that frame ehp doesn't always matter.

Theoretically Saryn is capable of survival of any level. I don't have that much time and stamina to test it, but you can use the skin instead of invisibility and be more effective than Ivara at the expense of killing. Anyway, when I talk about EHP, I mean EHP.Don't try to speculate on my words. Ivara is not capable of facetank at 100 levels.

I don't understand what you're trying to gain by speculating on words. I got the main idea. I literally said that.

10 часов назад, zhellon сказал:

1+4 has to change its mechanics because it is real easy. Because lazy people get rewarded for doing nothing. That's not what's supposed to be in the game.

Now to this.

2 часа назад, DatDarkOne сказал:

edit 2: While I have no problems with Saryn, some of these statements in this topic are either boosting her actual strengths or denying abilities of other frames to try and tell a false narrative. 

I don't understand why you wrote it here. It's great that you don't have a problem. But you're just accusing people of lying and not trying to prove it. 

You know what really all these posts in this topic? Two camps. One camp is trying to protect a lazy farm. Another is trying to defend their right to play the game wherever and whenever, and not to listen to their address such things: "play solo" (in the online game) and "collect party" (to reduce the strength of the party, lol). What are you trying to protect? 

 

[DatDarkOne]

48 minutes ago, zhellon said:

What are you trying to protect? 

I will only try to answer this question as everything else in that post is either misreading what I wrote or flat out presenting erroneous info as if it were a fact.  

So here goes.  I'm not trying to protect anything.  I could care less if Saryn gets nerfed or buffed.  What I have done in this topic is correct erroneous data or statements to provide a better narrative for those reading as well call out B.S. 

53 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Theoretically Saryn is capable of survival of any level. I don't have that much time and stamina to test it, but you can use the skin instead of invisibility and be more effective than Ivara at the expense of killing. Anyway, when I talk about EHP, I mean EHP.Don't try to speculate on my words. Ivara is not capable of facetank at 100 levels.

This above quote is a Prime example of B.S. Without the data or knowledge to prove it.  Meaning that yes Ivara can facetank lvl 100's as well as lvl 9999 and it not a theory as it's been done more than once and recorded.  

Saryn's Molt will NOT keep her alive after a certain point in enemy levels.  

[Klokwerkaos]

14 hours ago, zhellon said:

1-4-4-4-4-4-1-4-4-4-4-1-4-4-4-4-4

I'm sweating.

This is literally any frame.  people complain at one button to win frames but call frames advanced when they use two buttons like nidus or limbo.

this argument is absurd.  the fact are you can wipe tiles with any frame with a melee weapon 1 button push which renders frame choice obsolete anyway, and all frames are viable and able to breeze through any content if you build them right and invest properly in your load out, even the trashiest of trash frames, ember.

pick literally any frame and i can do a sortie and c rotation arb/eso without trying.  i can even do it with auto install mods and random weapons and a minimal amount of effort.

 

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

18 hours ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

What planet are you on.

You press 1 and everything is done for you

Yeah, go ahead and try pressing 1 then nothing else. You're a fool.

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

21 hours ago, Loza03 said:

I find it hilarious that you're clearly not even reading what I'm writing.

Wiping the map entirely is the problem, regardless of having to put effort in or not.

A problem for you, maybe. But its not really a problem.

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

21 hours ago, zhellon said:

1-4-4-4-4-4-1-4-4-4-4-1-4-4-4-4-4

I'm sweating.

That's not even close to what you do as Saryn. Clearly you need to play with her some more.

[Klokwerkaos]

i think we can all agree saryn needs more buffs, particularly to range and damage.  i think about about +550% to each at base is in order.  without that how will we sustain ourselves without more tears and salt?

[TennoSensei]

Instead of that,

can we do something about the game modes, enemy AI and armor scaling, spawning, mission difficulty first?

And then we can examine whether we are overpowered or not after all that is addressed properly.

[Klokwerkaos]

4 minutes ago, TennoSensei said:

Instead of that,

can we do something about the game modes, enemy AI and armor scaling, spawning, mission difficulty first?

And then we can examine whether we are overpowered or not after all that is addressed properly.

stop making sense and reasonable, rational arguments... that has no place here on the forums.

this is the place for tears and salt and screaming at the devs about things we don't understand. 

also i'm fairly certain the devs would have made this happen already if they had any inclination to over the past several years.

[selig_fay]

10 часов назад, DatDarkOne сказал:

Meaning that yes Ivara can facetank lvl 100's as well as lvl 9999 and it not a theory as it's been done more than once and recorded.  

Okay, we just have a problem with the meaning, I get it. When I mean EHP, I mean clean tank without any abilities. Yes, I know that invulnerability is OP, but people still prefer to play EHP tank up to level 200. And Saryn may well provide it.

Regarding skin, Yes - it is difficult to implement the mechanics, but just because nobody did not prove that it is useless. It's theoretically useful. I can provide videos where I use agro Titania to stand 60 waves of arbitration.(And I would have stood there longer, but the Dex Pixia was useless at lvl 200.) Saryn makes it a lot easier since you can hide the skin behind a wall and ranged mobs won't try to attack you. But personally, I am talking exclusively until level 200, then that is a big part of the content. And I repeat, she too easy to destroy mobs. The problem is her 4. Disputes should not spread by themselves.

[selig_fay]

9 часов назад, Klokwerkaos сказал:

pick literally any frame and i can do a sortie and c rotation arb/eso without trying. i can even do it with auto install mods and random weapons and a minimal amount of effort.

Loki, ESO 8 waves. Lets GO! And just try to say that Loki is a bad frame.

Edited August 12, 2019 by zhellon

[Klokwerkaos]

2 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Loki, ESO 8 waves. Lets GO!

No challenge.  radiating disarm, invis, zaw, don't even need a primary or secondary, this doesn't need to be tested because success is guaranteed.  this is not a worthy challenge.  i can also do an alt build on any frame with all surivivability and not use any abilities at all.

The closest i can get to a challenge in this game is to completely randomize my load out (and make sure i get gear i never forma'd once), and use auto install on all items to guarantee trash mods that make no sense and make sure i never get a good riven put in, and i have to eliminate my gear wheel and not allow myself to use an operator at all, then i have to do a sortie or arbitration C, not eso.  the messed part is, i"ve done both of those many times, and the thing is, i'm not some sort of e sports guru.... i just understand the basic systems of the game and have played long enough to have access to everything.

[Loza03]

2 hours ago, (XB1)RevenantRequiem said:

A problem for you, maybe. But its not really a problem.

And there's the whole 'not reading what I wrote' thing again, only for several posts past. I've already talked at great length about why nukes and other similar 'mechanics' aren't OK on the larger whole, and talked about it with you.

The game will stagnate as a shooter, as a cooperative experience and as a looting game if we're allowed to continue being at such immensely high power peaks. Alternatively, it will be forced to deviate more and more away from the core gameplay loop to act as a reset button. And either way, anything related to that core loop continues to have to degrade when presented with the effects that the immense efficiency and trivialisation we can apply to it. Increased grind requirements, reduction social play and thinning of the quality and duration of content play.

[kgabor]

Like already said, Pablo and DE are already aware of the problem, so we can expect the broken damage numbers in Saryn's Spores to be adjusted Soon™.

No reason to post seriously and unironically here, enjoy the chaos as long as this thread is open instead.

[selig_fay]

15 минут назад, Klokwerkaos сказал:

No challenge. radiating disarm, invis, zaw, don't even need a primary or secondary, this doesn't need to be tested because success is guaranteed. this is not a worthy challenge.

So go ahead. I can do ESO 8 wave with sarin in solo without much effort. I can even go for another 4 waves. Can you do it on Loki? My nick Inaros is having problems in ESO. I'm wondering why you're not having problems. Can be Loki has something, from what mobs commit suicide?

15 минут назад, Klokwerkaos сказал:

i can also do an alt build on any frame with all surivivability and not use any abilities at all.

I can say that I can make any frame invulnerable, and what?

1 минуту назад, kgabor сказал:

Like already said, Pablo and DE are already aware of the problem, so we can expect the broken damage numbers in Saryn's Spores to be adjusted Soon™.

It makes no sense to adjust the numbers, because it is a direct nerf. As I said, the problem with Saryn Is only in the mechanics of her 4 abilities, which allows her to do nothing. 
I don't mind broken numbers, but let people make an effort.