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MrRixter

Can something be done about Saryn?

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15 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

thats quite the funny statement, considering its actually the other way around.

No... Regenerative molt...

 

 oh yea lets pick the easiest faction and ESO to make a point, fair fair.

That's proof that they spread easily. With max range you can nuke a full large room. Nice try at a dig though. A bad one. But kudos.

how about picking perfect conditions with the easiest opponent type for every frame and then compare ? no no, that would mean saryn looks more balanced than some people here would like to admit so lets not do that, no no....i mean u need to keep ur points "valid", right ?

I don't know why valid is in speech marks or what he's really going on about here. It's not that hard to nuke a full room with max range on a saryn. She has a "I win" button that does it for her.

saryn is a golden example of a very well designed frame right now and instead of picking on her, other frames should be improved to match that level of design. its not 2015 anymore and recent frames have been more synergy heavy, which is needed to make modern, good designs so lets give old(er) frames the same share of the cake instead of throwing a great one into the trashcan.

Oh yes the classic "my playstyle is the best so lets rework every frame to suit that".

All I said was to rework her 2... I'm not imposing getting rid of nukers (I don't like them but thats a different argument) I'm just saying that nukers need some kind of weakness. (Which they do: health). Except for saryn where that doesn't apply.

nerf!-behaviour is rude towards everyone who really likes a frame in my opinion...i still pity those who really loved ember, not just because of WoF but generally, but still people show the nerf!-attitude instead of partaking in threads discussing how to buff the lackluster frames.

More nonsense rambling here. It's not rude. It's people expressing their opinion that a frame with an "I win" button should be nerfed.

By you're logic you're being RUDE to me because I want her nerfed and you don't.

Being RUDE is unacceptable by the way. We should bring back capital punishment for those rude people.

Also saying you pity someone is quite self-righteous. 

Most frames are in a good place, people ask them to get buffs because they get shown up by effortless nukers. 

Response is in bold

Also if you're trying to make the argument that saryn can't get 35 or so enemies with her spores. 

Either you're building her horrendously or you're just lying.

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vor einer Stunde schrieb WoodedSkate89:

Response is in bold

Also if you're trying to make the argument that saryn can't get 35 or so enemies with her spores. 

Either you're building her horrendously or you're just lying.

dont know where u pull that from but i never wrote anything about spore and just fyi in terms of growth/scaling 7 enemies is the cap, unaffected by mods.

also, i dont really feel like i need to answer ur ranting in "bold" since u pretty much misunderstood 90% of what i wrote and totally missed the point...aside of the fact that it wasnt even close to offensive yet u understood it like that. i mean....

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Xydeth:

[...] i still pity those who really loved ember [...]

u understood this offensive....u dont really expect me to discuss with u after that one, do u ? if u dont know ember pre-nerf and what i actually refer to then maybe, just maybe passive aggressiveness is the wrong way to react.

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17 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

dont know where u pull that from but i never wrote anything about spore and just fyi in terms of growth/scaling 7 enemies is the cap, unaffected by mods.

But with mods it goes way higher

also, i dont really feel like i need to answer ur ranting in "bold" since u pretty much misunderstood 90% of what i wrote and totally missed the point...aside of the fact that it wasnt even close to offensive yet u understood it like that. i mean....

OK.

For 1) I didn't find you offensive. Don't think I ever said that I did.

For 2) Ok, so you found a counterargument that you can't argue against so instead of trying. You use this awful excuse. If I misunderstood you, tell me how. Statements like that make me believe that you have nothing to say and are in a corner.

u understood this offensive....u dont really expect me to discuss with u after that one, do u ? if u dont know ember pre-nerf and what i actually refer to then maybe, just maybe passive aggressiveness is the wrong way to react.

I said it was a bit self righteous (which it was)... I do know ember pre nerf. That wasn't passively agressive. Look up some definitions. That was me telling you what that comment seemed like to me

 

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vor 1 Minute schrieb WoodedSkate89:

dont know where u pull that from but i never wrote anything about spore and just fyi in terms of growth/scaling 7 enemies is the cap, unaffected by mods.

But with mods it goes way higher

no...the damage growth is limited to 7 enemies, as i wrote, unaffected by mods....

vor 2 Minuten schrieb WoodedSkate89:

I said it was a bit self righteous (which it was)... I do know ember pre nerf. That wasn't passively agressive. Look up some definitions. That was me telling you what that comment seemed like to me

 

u could only say that if u a) didnt understand my words and b) didnt know ember pre-nerf.

i said i pity them because of EMPATHY...if i imagine my years long main frame, being saryn, getting nerfed into the ground and in case of ember already having a big issue, called armor but still getting slammed into the ground with the nerf hammer then i do feel pity for every player who loved ember and had to deal with the changes. max range lower strenght ember was kind of a band aid but considering the game keeps changing and newer frames being "more" she didnt need a nerf but a rework, which grows more and more due. the feedback on the ember changes were pretty much as expected and as mentioned her situation does everything but improve the more everything else evolves and she doesnt, which goes for other frames too but shes probably the best example aside of vauban and titania right now, in my opinion.

i dont know ur definition of "self righteous" but if thats ur personal synonym for "empathy" then i guess i am guilty.

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il y a une heure, Xydeth a dit :

shes probably the best example aside of vauban and titania right now, in my opinion.

 

Titania is amazing :) I love to fly around and i don't have to bulletjump anymore it's pure gold to me 🥳

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2 hours ago, Xydeth said:

no...the damage growth is limited to 7 enemies, as i wrote, unaffected by mods....

You make it sound like it's impossible to mod her

u could only say that if u a) didnt understand my words and b) didnt know ember pre-nerf.

A) I do understand your words 

B) Yes I did

C) How did you even deduce that then detective

i said i pity them because of EMPATHY...if i imagine my years long main frame, being saryn, getting nerfed into the ground and in case of ember already having a big issue, called armor but still getting slammed into the ground with the nerf hammer then i do feel pity for every player who loved ember and had to deal with the changes. max range lower strenght ember was kind of a band aid but considering the game keeps changing and newer frames being "more" she didnt need a nerf but a rework, which grows more and more due. the feedback on the ember changes were pretty much as expected and as mentioned her situation does everything but improve the more everything else evolves and she doesnt, which goes for other frames too but shes probably the best example aside of vauban and titania right now, in my opinion.

i dont know ur definition of "self righteous" but if thats ur personal synonym for "empathy" then i guess i am guilty.

Say I feel sorry for them. I just think saying "I pity" makes it seem like you're some social justice warrior in my opinion.

 

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1 minute ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

I just think saying "I pity" makes it seem like you're some social justice warrior in my opinion.

I know it's none of my business and that I shouldn't be inserting myself in your little squabble, but for the love of God, don't use SJW when it has nothing to do with the topic. It's as bad as actual SJWs calling anybody and everybody "incels" and other pejoratives. If anything, saying you "pity" the ones affected by Ember's nerf sounds demeaning at worst, but it has no correlation to SJWs whatsoever.

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5 minutes ago, Blexander said:

I know it's none of my business and that I shouldn't be inserting myself in your little squabble, but for the love of God, don't use SJW when it has nothing to do with the topic. It's as bad as actual SJWs calling anybody and everybody "incels" and other pejoratives. If anything, saying you "pity" the ones affected by Ember's nerf sounds demeaning at worst, but it has no correlation to SJWs whatsoever.

I am very limited on insults. Because of profanity restrictions

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Just now, WoodedSkate89 said:

I am very limited on insults. Because of profanity restrictions

You two shouldn't be insulting each other to begin with. Just present your points concisely, argue points you don't agree with, and if it starts escalating to the point where you're going to insult someone, don't, agree to disagree.

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1 minute ago, Blexander said:

You two shouldn't be insulting each other to begin with. Just present your points concisely, argue points you don't agree with, and if it starts escalating to the point where you're going to insult someone, don't, agree to disagree.

honestly I've gotten bored of this argument. There was another thread with like 30 pages on the same topic. I was in most of those pages. Insults fly. I guess im still not out of that mentality.

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Just now, WoodedSkate89 said:

honestly I've gotten bored of this argument. There was another thread with like 30 pages on the same topic. I was in most of those pages. Insults fly. I guess im still not out of that mentality.

I saw the whole thing too. I understand why somebody would be immensely agitated by the replies in that thread.

Try to keep a cool head, is all. An hour ago, there was this one guy who got banned until 2035. He went ballistic. Made 2 identical threads. I'm pretty sure he's either permanbanned now or is just hiding until he can go on another tirade. An argument loses value if you start insulting your opponent.

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12 hours ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

Rework her 2 to get rid of her easy survivability in later game missions.

Therefore, making the player rely on their build and ability knowledge to wipe out enemies instead of pressing 2 then taking all the time they need.

(To be honest, saryn builds aren't that hard (max range, decent strength, efficiency))

I really hope no new player reads this and thinks Saryn's 2 will carry them to endgame because they can just press it whenever they want to survive in the endgame. Or that Saryn is special because of her 2.

WoodedSkate89 has shown time and again that he knows very little about the game itself and yet will talk on here as if he's the most knowledgeable person around. Please don't take his opinions as fact in any way.

Among his more misguided opinions:
-Rhino can carry ESO solo to 8 waves by getting 1 mil armor and using an Ignis.
-Saryn is so overpowered she can solo everything in the game.
-Using Hildryn/Rhino is a true showing of skills in the game.
-Chroma needs a rework because he tested so many builds in the Simulacrum and Chroma's 1 and 4 were very weak. My only guess as to how and why he came to this conclusion was that he couldn't understand how Chroma's 2 and 3 worked. Probably too much reading comprehension required because it's not as simple as "press this button and get kills."
-Doing 30 minutes of survival as Rhino was a challenge in the game that should prove to everyone else that he's good at the game. This is WoodedSkate89's attempt at flexing his elite Warframe skills. When he got called out by another player that his challenges were dumb and anyone could do them with almost any frame he got mad and took it as a personal insult instead of just accepting that he needs to learn more about the game.

And now, he thinks Saryn's 2 is something that defines her endgame. Any player that actually plays at endgame knows how dumb this argument is. You can delete Saryn's 2 and no one that plays at endgame would care because every frame gets Molt and many should be making use of it at endgame for ease of play.

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vor 13 Stunden schrieb Blexander:

Both Volt and Saryn are viable nukes, along with a couple of other frames. As some people have mentioned in this thread, they can nerf Saryn, another frame will replace her. The ones asking for only Saryn to get nerfed are saying so because of the damage type combo she has, since Armor stripping is almost necessary in the game's current state, so she's pretty popular and effective.

No matter what happens, nothing will change change, only who gets upset.

Saryn gets nerfed = Another nuke takes her place; Meta stays the same; A lot of angry players (not just Saryn mains)
Saryn doesn't get nerfed = She's allowed to keep fulfilling her role; Meta stays the same; A "lot" of angry "new" players

 

thats what i mean... it make no sense to nerf her...  it will only frustrate a lot of people, while a few are sadisfied - until they realize, other frame are much better in nuking the map... and they lost the only frame which is able to strip armor down for them, so it will much harder to survive high level missions.

the main problem is, op with this topic have no idea of the frame and what are they for, whats her purpose and so on. they are just pissed of a random player get their kills because they was not able to just leave the room and kills elsewhere...  the main purpose of saryn isn't to nuke a map. a lot frame are better then her in that.

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On 2019-08-12 at 12:32 PM, Voltage said:

Saryn's output to me is in a good spot. Maybe the effort put in is a little low and could be changed a little, but her potential is great and I rather see other Warframes in Saryn's category be pushed in that direction.

Sorry, no. This game doesn't need more power creep. There's nothing in the game that needs frames that can nuke rooms with one button like Saryn can. This gross negligence of balance is why we have garbage mechanics in place like nullifiers, comba and scrambus, arbitration shield drones, enemies who straight up heavily mitigate damage regardless of armor value, invulnerability phases, the likelihood DE will never fix enemy scaling out of necessity, etc. Encouraging other frames to be as broken as Saryn is only going to worsen this game's trend.

Nobody wants it, but nerfs are necessary. Saryn needs nerfs. LoS restrictions, range reductions, damage reductions, something. No one frame should be capable of doing what a full team of players should be doing together,

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb Pizzarugi:

Sorry, no. This game doesn't need more power creep. There's nothing in the game that needs frames that can nuke rooms with one button like Saryn can. 

then we have to kill the ablitys of many frames like volt, banshee, wisp and so on BEFORE anything has to be done to saryn. 

your argument is just wrong. there is no NEED for a nerf. because noone NEED it. you simply WANT it. this has nothing to do with game balance. this is just to sadisfy some people who are worrying about there kills. why? because to kill the whole map isn't possible with a saryn (you can only kill a part of the map unless its a very small map) while a volt is able to kill just everything on a map in a blink of voltage. i didn't read any articel about volt being nerfed.. so.. why? it's just the same - hitting a button and everythign is gone. why shoult volt be able to that, (like many other frames!) and saryn not?

if every frame is finally killed, any abillitiy is restricted and everyone has it "but xy needs a nerf" sadisfied. whats then? do we all play on lvl 5 missions because no frame can do anything esle? because all abillitys are too overpowered?

and what we are playing for, if nothing can be archived? i played to once get a nice saryn prime build. i have mine (as already wrote in another thread, mine isn't a nuke build) and i like it as it is. but if you nerfed her again, it will again destroy my build my playstyle and everything else as already happend to my nezha. 

the main problem is random groups of player. you will never every be able to play with everyone. thats because we are all individual. so the solution would be to not play with someone you can't pla with - but not to crush his frame. a racing driver didn't crush the car of another just because he is fast or?

if you don't want to play with a saryn don't do it. but stop such nonsense threads....

 

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28 minutes ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

then we have to kill the ablitys of many frames like volt, banshee, wisp and so on BEFORE anything has to be done to saryn. 

your argument is just wrong. there is no NEED for a nerf. because noone NEED it. you simply WANT it. this has nothing to do with game balance. this is just to sadisfy some people who are worrying about there kills. why? because to kill the whole map isn't possible with a saryn (you can only kill a part of the map unless its a very small map) while a volt is able to kill just everything on a map in a blink of voltage. i didn't read any articel about volt being nerfed.. so.. why? it's just the same - hitting a button and everythign is gone. why shoult volt be able to that, (like many other frames!) and saryn not?

Wanna know something cool? Saryn isn't the only broken frame that needs to be nerfed. Volt, Equinox, Mesa, and probably Banshee are all on the list of frames that can press 1 button to nuke everything around them from 50+ meters away, with Banshee falling off a lot sooner. However, we're talking about Saryn as mentioned in the OP and the title of this thread, and I'm refuting someone who thinks we should be buffing frames to be as broken as it. Let's try and stay on topic, yes?

28 minutes ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

if every frame is finally killed, any abillitiy is restricted and everyone has it "but xy needs a nerf" sadisfied. whats then? do we all play on lvl 5 missions because no frame can do anything esle? because all abillitys are too overpowered?

The game's highest difficulty officially only goes up to level 100 which are time gated between 1 hour to an entire day (kuva floods and sorties). Everything else is in the star chart which is level 60 at max. Even when doing sorties and kuva floods, Saryn can press 4 and melt everything in the room, dash into the next one, press 4 again, repeat until objective is complete and you're at extraction. Meanwhile, everyone else gets to AFK or play the amazing new Warframe minigame: Roomba Simulator! There's nothing that exists in this game that needs frames to be strong enough to clear everything 50+ meters around them with one button.

Your statement is a strawman.

28 minutes ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

and what we are playing for, if nothing can be archived? i played to once get a nice saryn prime build. i have mine (as already wrote in another thread, mine isn't a nuke build) and i like it as it is. but if you nerfed her again, it will again destroy my build my playstyle and everything else as already happend to my nezha.

Just because you don't play her like a nuke build, doesn't mean nobody else does. The vast majority of Saryn users play her for the purpose of being the most efficient frame for farming the game, by clearing everything in the blink of an eye over and over again. If what you say about how you play her is true, you're a rare exception, but not the norm.

28 minutes ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

the main problem is random groups of player. you will never every be able to play with everyone. thats because we are all individual. so the solution would be to not play with someone you can't pla with - but not to crush his frame.

I've seen this argument so many times that I'm going to start copy+pasting my responses.

Quote

1. No u. Seriously though, this is a co-op shooter. Press-4-to-win frames like Saryn and Mesa takes that concept and throws it right out the window by doing what an entire team should be capable of when playing together. If there's anyone who should be playing solo, its the people who abuse these frames, because they clearly do not need any assistance to delete entire rooms. We all know why they don't, and I'll explain it later.

2. As I explained in point 1, I like Warframe because its a co-op. I like having other people to play with, to carry them or to carry me if they're better, and help the less experienced players get through missions if they're having trouble. Just because matchmaking is at the whim of random people, it doesn't mean DE shouldn't do something about players who'd rather turn the game into a walking simulator by mashing 1 button until its time to extract.

3. Enemy spawns in solo is hot garbage. The game is set to where teammate count directly factors in how many enemies are thrown at you on a regular basis, and those who play solo get the least amount of them compared to a full team. This is more clearly evidenced by playing rounds of survival alone and struggling to keep up on life support drops. Press-4-to-win abusers know this as well, because it directly impacts the amount of resources you can get from enemies. They rely on teammates to bump up enemy spawns, they need spawn-slaves to keep the numbers high. Unless DE gives players a way to increase enemy spawns in solo to give them more of a challenge or an easier time where kills are important, this is just a typical response to handwave away criticism aimed at broken frames.

I will say this though: If DE allowed players to have a matchmaking blacklist, forbidding them from joining a game or letting people join theirs if they're using a blacklisted thing like certain weapons or frames, I'd totally support it and it would make your argument more credible.

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On 2019-08-13 at 2:22 AM, (PS4)Timcan_57 said:

So,when there's a toxic destroyer in your team as Saryn,you don't need to do anything.She kills everything instantly.She is a tank,too.

I knowwhen you revisited Wukong,you aimed people to play him.People weren't playing him because there was better tanks with CC abilities etc.

And now it's same with Saryn,but the opposite situation.There's no reason to play with any other Warframe if you have a Terminator that can take any damage possible in the system,you won't need any other Warframe.

Nice bait.

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I agree, Saryn needs another look. 

She is doing exactly what Ember did, just on a much larger scale and without punishment. Ember was too good at killing, so they nerfed her into the ground. Then they turned around and made Saryn a nuke, to my understanding.

While Saryn makes missions go by faster, I find she sucks the fun out of it. She leaves nothing for the rest of the squad to do. She kills through walls, all while standing in one spot. 

Please explain again how this isn't a problem? I'm genuinely curious.

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2 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

Sorry, no. This game doesn't need more power creep. There's nothing in the game that needs frames that can nuke rooms with one button like Saryn can.

My comment stated that the potential of Saryn is in a good spot, but I could understand them making it take a bit more effort to reach such a state. If Saryn went from an easy DPS to one that required a bit more effort from the player, that would balance it more compared to a Warframe like Volt where you just press 4. Gara can DPS, Mag can DPS, Mesa can DPS, and many other setups can DPS that aren't Saryn. I would like DE to look at Warframes in Saryn's category and place them closer to the synergy and effectiveness of Saryn while also making sure said effectiveness requires active play and isn't too easy.

All the "garbage" mechanics you list are not that bad to combat in gameplay. For example, Nullifiers can be shot with high RoF weapons, popped from the drone, or you can take a Miter with the augment.

I don't want to see Saryn be nerfed in output, but I would surely support making the current DPS stay with a bit more user input.

"No one Frame should be capable of doing what a team should be doing" does not make sense considering you can do just that with so many other items in the game. You can't blame Saryn for Melee Range, Magus Lockdown, etc. Saryn is an outlier in terms of effectiveness given the little input she needs to do, but she's not near DPS Trinity or other past nukes that were out there. Ash is a great example of why we shouldn't just nerf something into the ground solely due to effectiveness.

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So you want an Ember 2.0? Gotcha.

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5 hours ago, uAir said:

I really hope no new player reads this and thinks Saryn's 2 will carry them to endgame because they can just press it whenever they want to survive in the endgame. Or that Saryn is special because of her 2.

WoodedSkate89 has shown time and again that he knows very little about the game itself and yet will talk on here as if he's the most knowledgeable person around. Please don't take his opinions as fact in any way.

Among his more misguided opinions:
-Rhino can carry ESO solo to 8 waves by getting 1 mil armor and using an Ignis.
-Saryn is so overpowered she can solo everything in the game.
-Using Hildryn/Rhino is a true showing of skills in the game.
-Chroma needs a rework because he tested so many builds in the Simulacrum and Chroma's 1 and 4 were very weak. My only guess as to how and why he came to this conclusion was that he couldn't understand how Chroma's 2 and 3 worked. Probably too much reading comprehension required because it's not as simple as "press this button and get kills."
-Doing 30 minutes of survival as Rhino was a challenge in the game that should prove to everyone else that he's good at the game. This is WoodedSkate89's attempt at flexing his elite Warframe skills. When he got called out by another player that his challenges were dumb and anyone could do them with almost any frame he got mad and took it as a personal insult instead of just accepting that he needs to learn more about the game.

And now, he thinks Saryn's 2 is something that defines her endgame. Any player that actually plays at endgame knows how dumb this argument is. You can delete Saryn's 2 and no one that plays at endgame would care because every frame gets Molt and many should be making use of it at endgame for ease of play.

Regenerative molt...

I literally have never acted like that. And what "don't I know about the game" that I have claimed to have known

For my "misguided opinions"

1. With ironclad charge he can get 1mil armor max (usually around 100k-250k though). With iron shrapnel he can project all of that as raw damage. Arcane energize helps you use this ability as much as possible.

Don't believe me? Here are several videos of people doing just that

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

2. I said she can easily solo early game content, and with regenerative molt and the right weapon setup level 60ish enemies. She can't solo lvl 100 enemies

3. I just said that I use Hildryn. Stop assuming things.

4. I do know how his 2 and 3 work. Again, stop assuming things. (Also a saryn main trying to call me out for "pressing a button and getting kills"... cute) If 2 of his abilities are useless in his kit, I thought he should have a rework. I was wondering what other people thought, but most were fine with his 2 and 4 being good and the rest being unused.

5. This is just lies. Getting 30 minutes of survival really isn't that hard (depends on the mission actually). But either way you made up that I said this... That never happened.

6. Regenerative molt gives her more survivability endgame. I don't know why this is a debate. An ability that HEALS YOU, helps when enemies are doing more damage.

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2 hours ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

I agree, Saryn needs another look. 

She is doing exactly what Ember did, just on a much larger scale and without punishment. Ember was too good at killing, so they nerfed her into the ground. Then they turned around and made Saryn a nuke, to my understanding.

While Saryn makes missions go by faster, I find she sucks the fun out of it. She leaves nothing for the rest of the squad to do. She kills through walls, all while standing in one spot. 

Please explain again how this isn't a problem? I'm genuinely curious.

The main arguments I've seen against this is people with bad saryn builds denying this is possible

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3 часа назад, Voltage сказал:
Saryn is an outlier in terms of effectiveness given the little input she needs to do, but she's not near DPS Trinity or other past nukes that were out there. Ash is a great example of why we shouldn't just nerf something into the ground solely due to effectiveness.

Ash wasn't nerf, it's still effective. He easily kills enemies level 300-500. And if you add an ability that automatically marks all targets within a 50 meter radius, we'll get a second Saryn and a semi AFK farm. If we just add an automatic attack on a tagged target three seconds after the mark is applied, we'll save the gameplay. Even better, Ash would get marks as a passive ability that increases damage on the marked target, and 4 would just trigger clones. There are so many ideas. Why do people only have to stand still and push buttons? 

I can only speak for myself and I say personally I don't need ash which is saryn.

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