Can something be done about Saryn?

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

40 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

He needs damage and having saryn could results less shield, and having tryhard player with whatever frames also results less shield.

Actually she won't, she has #*!%ing 300 armor 375 health, and yeah volt and mesa gonna die but both of them have defensive ability that doesn't need enemy to work.

None of their abilities need killing in order to work, they'll just deal damage, but dealing damage doesn't give you anything (beside stacking up spores, wind-up of mesa, and capacitance for volt)

Sorry but in ESO, volt damage falls off by stupid armor of enemies, so saryn shouldn't have problem with volt... more likely, it's benefitical.

Saryn use spore, and every ten seconds volt use discharge to spread the spore, while he can deal more damage since their armor is stripped.

Outside of ESO, saryn doesn't need to go spores, just spam miasma as volt spam discharge, problem solved.

And again "everyone is ded i don't have things to do" isn't a problem with nukers, since every frame with good weapon can do same, if we gonna nerfing all the nukers, and removing every AoE from the game then that could work.

I know, what i mean is that she does all her damage in 0.1second (and going to build up for few second), that means saryn can't spread her spore because enemy numbers will drop to zero in that one second.

I suppose you were just lucky and never met the tryhard memeing striker, but that's different matter i guess.

That was my point. When Volt ends up queuing with a Saryn, he ends dealing damage to a lesser amount of enemies, resulting in a lower shield count, inhibiting his survivability. Let me reiterate a point I had previously made. The damage is this game is heavily titled in favour of five or six specific frames, a tryhard Oberon spamming Smite and Reckoning won't be doing the same amount of nuking as a Saryn. 

Atlas has 450 armor and 300 health, and he'll still go down, because they way armor works in this game can be fairly unreliable at times. I have seen Saryn players go down multiple times in a single mission, even when they're active. Saryn also has Molt and the augment Regenerative Molt, neither of those require enemies to work.

Sure, none of their abilities need to actually kill enemies, but they always end up doing so, because of how powerful those abilities are.

While Volt wont be a problem for Saryn, Saryn will be a definite problem for Volt. That was my point. These nuke frames always end up stepping on each others toes, while trying to nuke the map simultaneously. Even if Saryn stuck to spamming Miasma, she'd still be killing the enemies that Volt is trying to garner shields off of.

"Any frame with a good weapon can do the same" I'd like to see a Nyx with a Rubico Prime wipe the map at the same level of a Saryn.

That is what I said, "...Another thing I'd noticed, is that Equinox and Saryn are incompatible. When Equinox detonates her nuke, she wipes everything in the vicinity, including Saryn's spored targets; if you have a high range Equinox, she'll easily end up consistently resetting the Saryn players spores."

I have run into several spin2win melee players, (whether they were using Maiming Strike, is unclear since I never bothered to ask) and I've never really had a problem building energy or shields.

And the issue with spin2win players is being looked, in the form of Melee 3.0, so it's clear the devs have to plans to do something about that problem. I can't say the same about Saryn and other nukers, or the damage system.

[Test-995]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

That was my point. When Volt ends up queuing with a Saryn, he ends dealing damage to a lesser amount of enemies, resulting in a lower shield count, inhibiting his survivability. Let me reiterate a point I had previously made. The damage is this game is heavily titled in favour of five or six specific frames, a tryhard Oberon spamming Smite and Reckoning won't be doing the same amount of nuking as a Saryn. 

Atlas has 450 armor and 300 health, and he'll still go down, because they way armor works in this game can be fairly unreliable at times. I have seen Saryn players go down multiple times in a single mission, even when they're active. Saryn also has Molt and the augment Regenerative Molt, neither of those require enemies to work.

Sure, none of their abilities need to actually kill enemies, but they always end up doing so, because of how powerful those abilities are.

While Volt wont be a problem for Saryn, Saryn will be a definite problem for Volt. That was my point. These nuke frames always end up stepping on each others toes, while trying to nuke the map simultaneously. Even if Saryn stuck to spamming Miasma, she'd still be killing the enemies that Volt is trying to garner shields off of.

"Any frame with a good weapon can do the same" I'd like to see a Nyx with a Rubico Prime wipe the map at the same level of a Saryn.

That is what I said, "...Another thing I'd noticed, is that Equinox and Saryn are incompatible. When Equinox detonates her nuke, she wipes everything in the vicinity, including Saryn's spored targets; if you have a high range Equinox, she'll easily end up consistently resetting the Saryn players spores."

I have run into several spin2win melee players, (whether they were using Maiming Strike, is unclear since I never bothered to ask) and I've never really had a problem building energy or shields.

And the issue with spin2win players is being looked, in the form of Melee 3.0, so it's clear the devs have to plans to do something about that problem. I can't say the same about Saryn and other nukers, or the damage system.

If people are dying with tanky frames like saryn or atlas, i suppose they gonna die much more with anything else unless they are using oberon/wisp/trinity, problem is that they don't have healing, we can easily fix it by slapping life strike or anything like that.

And if they don't need to kill enemies, they are more coop friendly than those "using enemy as a resource" things, simply because they can work no matter how enemies doing.

Since volt isn't a problem for saryn (and saryn is helpful for volt aside capacitance), nuke frames won't always end up conflicting, maybe harrow, nidus, capacitance volt, everything with rage/adrenaline could have a problem because all of those need enemies to work.

Rubico prime isn't a good weapon for mass killing.

Well saryn CAN have a problem with equinox, but it's not too much, and for equinox saryn can be actually helpful, her armor stripping greatly increase equinox's damaging potential, while also her spore allows equinox to stacking up damages faster.

Maybe you are right then.

Edited August 18, 2019 by Test-995

[BLI7Z]

10 hours ago, Cubewano said:

Because that'd be a ton more work, solve none of the grievances expressed in this thread (it would outright make them far more recurring), rob the game of an enormous amount of playstyle diversity, ruin any possible attempt at game balance outside cheese mechanics, and more or less tank all of co-operative play, among other things.

Suffice to say, making everything a nuke would just make all matters worse, so that's why not. 

 

By everything I also meant enemies and their AI

[BLI7Z]

17 hours ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

An interesting take, but I would be wary of that one, as well.

A lot of Frames seem like they are in good spots and don't need much or any work. Some do need a buff.

But nukes are an on a completely different level from either. Their killing power eliminates the gameplay itself, and they don't even really have to do much to do so. 

As I stated above in the other response I quoted. I meant they should buff everything, that meaning also enemies and their AI

[selig_fay]

42 минуты назад, BLI7Z сказал:

As I stated above in the other response I quoted. I meant they should buff everything, that meaning also enemies and their AI

It does not matter what the enemies AI, if you still do not see them. Interesting enemies can only be if the nuck mechanics do not act on them, and the control has vulnerabilities. That is, if Saryn and other nukers are not exposed to nerf, they will get nerf in the form of new content, where they will be useless. In any case, we rest on the fact that all nuckers need recycling. 

If we're talking about nuckers as an AOE DPS, then the main problem with nuckers is their large range. If it is smaller, then all nuckers will have to depend on the mechanics who collect enemies at one point. And it is already very good controllers do. 

That is, we have two options - we nerf nukers by radius, or we create content in which it is simply impossible for them to participate. By the way, controllers are also a problem of this game. But they all got nerfs in their time. Remember the blinding Mirage and the interceptions. I remember. Titania's lantern still doesn't work properly because of this.

Edited August 18, 2019 by zhellon

[Aldain]

34 minutes ago, zhellon said:

That is, we have two options - we nerf nukers by radius, or we create content in which it is simply impossible for them to participate.

Third option, change from "raw burst" to "longer build-up to burst" damage systems.

If nukes had to build up damage over a longer period to a room clear it would give more value to the other members of the party as they can cover and protect each other until the damage frame can deliver a coup de grace.

Blocking frame participation and forcing a specific meta would be just as bad as the Sayrn/Mesa/other nuke frame players in this thread suddenly saying "I don't care if you don't get to participate I have my fun already".

Edited August 18, 2019 by Aldain

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

All this thread has shown me is that the community has not learned anything from what happened to Ember

[Sea_Blue_Stars]

4 hours ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

All this thread has shown me is that the community has not learned anything from what happened to Ember

Debating balancing =/= Ember Nerf

No one wants an Ember level nerf. They want Nukes to be balanced better for team play. 

[(PSN)NewcastleDisease]

Am 16.8.2019 um 17:05 schrieb DatDarkOne:

This isn't quite true.  The below quite is closer to the truth.

Me and various other players have noticed and actually proven that enemy radar does influence mob spawning in survival missions.  DE Glen (I think) tried to say that it wasn't in the coding, but multiple players have proven that the interaction does in fact exists.  

edit:  Granted that it is somewhat hard to test without using a frame like Ivara who can stay invisible for the whole duration of the testing.  

in survival.. one mission type out of many... and sorry to say that but i have played lot of survival and enemies still spawn whereever a player is. may they are not that many but the still spawn. in this mission type you will have no problem to kill enemies, and play in a group even if there is a saryn.

this whole thread is about newbie player who compare their ability and gears to veterans - which will not work, in no game. not abaout balance, not anything else. there is just a guy angry because his kills are not so good. 

and i'm tired of all this "arguments" from people who want "balancing" in a game, where you play infested war gears with magic-like powers...

every frame has his purpose.

before nerfing the next 10 frame (and make them unusable) you should think about buff the already killed-by-nerfing frames.

Edited August 19, 2019 by (PS4)NewcastleDisease
typo again

[(PSN)JayCeeV3]

2 hours ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

No one wants an Ember level nerf. They want Nukes to be balanced better for team play. 

Yup. What he said. My poor, poor Ember. 

Can we end this conversation now. Its exhausting. 

[selig_fay]

10 часов назад, Aldain сказал:

Blocking frame participation and forcing a specific meta would be just as bad as the Sayrn/Mesa/other nuke frame players in this thread suddenly saying "I don't care if you don't get to participate I have my fun already".

Yes, only problem is that now nuck frames are almost mandatory for effective farm. With a longer accumulation, you also have to be careful, because you can make a very slow accumulation and it will be more effective to kill with your own hands. In fact, slow accumulation can kill the nuckers. Radius is more efficient as you can smooth this out with your mobility. The same situation with Ember was due to the fact that Ember has a weak damage. But I still see Ember on small levels. 260% of the radius is 20 meters of the world on fire and that's enough.

[chaotea]

On 2019-08-16 at 11:10 PM, Sahansral said:

I disagree, this has nothing to do with power disparity between veterans and new players.

Saryn has huge scaling(!) damage potential, a big range, she circumvents armor (which is a big one), she halves enemy HP for the whole team and is also quite tanky.

That alone is way more most damage frames can hope for.

Having played her recently during a Arbitration, I dont really think shes all that. Yes, under the right conditions she can be very strong, but only by keeping the spores in circulation. I dont disagree that shes strong over all, but the same thing can be applied to Equinox and Ember.

Generally I dont play Saryn. I dont feel she needs a massive nerf. I also dont feel line of site would make a huge difference.

[AkyFenrir]

On 2019-08-18 at 5:45 PM, zhellon said:

That is, we have two options - we nerf nukers by radius, or we create content in which it is simply impossible for them to participate. By the way, controllers are also a problem of this game. But they all got nerfs in their time. Remember the blinding Mirage and the interceptions. I remember. Titania's lantern still doesn't work properly because of this.

Nerfing radius ! Great a new Ember fan I see. 

"content impossible to participate" that's a good one, you do realize nukers are useless in most of the game right ? it's a very "Defense/Mobile Defense" "problem". Survival you can't find your own stuff anyway, capture/rescue/spy/sabotage/assassination/excavation (well it's i Limbo thing and not a nuker sooo).

Looks to me there's content where nukers don't shine ? Hey let's just focus where it's a problem and call it a day !

On 2019-08-19 at 12:50 AM, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

Debating balancing =/= Ember Nerf

No one wants an Ember level nerf. They want Nukes to be balanced better for team play. 

Please read the previous quote. It's very instructive.

There's no way to "balances" nukers without making them like ember somehow. Like zhellon pointed out very well. Pretending you don't want an ember like nerf is just a way to try to deflect what nerfing nukers provoke.

On 2019-08-19 at 3:46 AM, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

in survival.. one mission type out of many... and sorry to say that but i have played lot of survival and enemies still spawn whereever a player is. may they are not that many but the still spawn. in this mission type you will have no problem to kill enemies, and play in a group even if there is a saryn.

this whole thread is about newbie player who compare their ability and gears to veterans - which will not work, in no game. not abaout balance, not anything else. there is just a guy angry because his kills are not so good. 

and i'm tired of all this "arguments" from people who want "balancing" in a game, where you play infested war gears with magic-like powers...

every frame has his purpose.

before nerfing the next 10 frame (and make them unusable) you should think about buff the already killed-by-nerfing frames.

I'm pretty sure "Balance" doesn't mean changing an easy game in a Skill tester experience.

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Letter13
quoted post removed

[(PSN)NewcastleDisease]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb AkyFenrir:

I'm pretty sure "Balance" doesn't mean changing an easy game in a Skill tester experience.

i'm pretty sure if all the "nerf frame xy for his/her yx" guy's once sadisfied, noone will play warframe anymore because there is nothing to play.

if all frame are like ember is now, there is nothing funny any more. you would just be pressed in missions where you can't do anything to survive, you will not be able to play high level missions, and can't level your masterrank, because you loose xp while dying. so.. that would be a great game don't you think?

what noone ask for is buffing whats broken. or changing whats not working.

but saryn is working. it's a nice frame for some missions.

balancing do not mean to cut everything around the lowest possible edge. it means to level anything in an environment to a certain point where it get the best out of it.

nerfing saryn to an ember like experience isn'T balancing - it's cutting it off.

[selig_fay]

2 минуты назад, AkyFenrir сказал:

capture/rescue/spy/sabotage/assassination/excavation

excavation - yes. assassination - yes. And that depends on what you mean. Arbitrage? Eidolon hunt? excavation on arbitrations may not be the most effective farm and then we will stand defense with the nukers. (They said that they would balance the time of receiving awards.) Hunting - we have volt, who is also a Nuker. For the rest of the assassination, you can walk on anything.

The rest of the missions can be completed by the operator. And usually these missions do not exceed 3-5 minutes, you just ignore the mobs. If we were limited in the style of "kill mobs to open the door further," you do know what that means.

[Sahansral]

Saryn's kit struggles when there aren't enough enemies around. And when there are enough of them around, other frames have a hard time being relevant.

Depending on mission type she's very hit and miss with the "bonus" of destroying fun for other players.

I propose streamlining her by requiring LOS for spore spreading and but also making the damage decay much more forgiving.  So she should feel more consistent over different mission types and other team members can contribute because then Saryn won't  be able to melt the entire map.

And yes, after Saryn Equinox is next. Maim is stupidly powerful (and boring).

[TeaHawk]

1 hour ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

i'm pretty sure if all the "nerf frame xy for his/her yx" guy's once sadisfied, noone will play warframe anymore because there is nothing to play.

That one is huge. But the most incredible thing is how biased and hypocrite these complainers are. I've literally heard people discussing Saryn because she made their meme strike less efficient. Hence these people want to nerf her in order to abuse their maiming strike and raise their combo counter (which is harder with Saryn). That's disgusting/ They are even worse than newbie meta-unaware players, who seems to be astounded by nukers efficiency.

Also, I've tried to study arguments used by many: they appear to be totally groundless. Once I've spoke to a player who has been complaining that Saryn is 1-button frame with no flaws.

After asking him how does he survives and supply energy, we came up to this: He has a good melee, arcane energize and he's actively playing avoiding to get shot/permanently using melee to heal himself and moving around to find energy. Not to mention stacks management. Not to mention, his build is half-surviability, that means he's not a superb nuker. And he's unthoroughly calling this 1-button gameplay! That does not make any sense as much as people who are complaining about nuke frame being good at nuking. This is patently stupid. I have pity for these people.

Edited August 19, 2019 by TeaHawk

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

7 hours ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

Debating balancing =/= Ember Nerf

No one wants an Ember level nerf. They want Nukes to be balanced better for team play. 

That's interesting, considering this is the exact argument with the exact positions being held by even some of the exact participants that led to her being deep sixed in the first place.  You guys want to bury your heads in the sand?  So be it.

 

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

As someone who used to be new, that NEVER stopped me from moving around, collecting resources and MODS, and killing any survivors. I was being an Excalibur with NO MODS equipped. Yet I did better and survived longer than most MR20s. 

A Saryn that is killing hordes “easily” should be a big motivator for you considering that you still gain a lot of affinity(xp). Faster than you would killing one guy at a time. You get missions completed quickly which makes it faster to farm resources. And you can’t expect everybody to stop just because you’re new. 

So to quote every troll in every post about problems with other players, “play solo” if “fun” is all that matters to you. I’ve encountered this same type of post about Sanctuary Onslaught which the object is to “kill every enemy you encounter. Do not relent”. So Saryns and Equinoxes are gonna be the go to frames for killing hordes. Especially to gain a lot of affinity. 

Like every other noob or newbie, you’re gonna realize how useful these warframes are and soon, if you don’t rage quit the game, everybody will be complaining about you too. 

I have a Rhino build that allows me to triple all damage including from abilities for all nearby players when activated. So a few buddies of mine would destroy high level maps and rack up thousands upon thousands of affinity. BUT... most noobs or newbies would ask them what their Saryn or Equinox builds and calling them OP while completely ignoring the rhino that is tripling their damage. 

Saryn is good for killing hordes, especially grineer. While frames like my rhino is good for teamwork and killing super tough enemies that a Saryn couldn’t kill. The first ability of Saryn takes a little bit of time to build up which is what usually does most of the damage. Saryn cannot kill the Stalker nor bosses with her abilities the same way a rhino or chroma could. 

It is like I’m the only one who saw an “OP” frame and thought, “can’t wait get one of those”. Play solo if playing with other players who like to get things done quickly is that big of a problem. Cause trust me, there are way more of them than there are of people like you.  

[Peter]

11 hours ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

No one wants an Ember level nerf. 

Let's see, DE is very busy creating new content to calm the crying babies of the forum (just like this topic), what will happen?

a) They will stop everything they are doing, set up a meeting and discuss ways to "balance" the nukers.

b) They will simply destroy the skill and put something close to ridiculous to quiet the kids, just as they did with Banshee and Ember.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Peter

[Uhkretor]

On 2019-08-02 at 4:13 PM, MrRixter said:

I'm a fairly new player and today I got matched with a Saryn at my sortie. It was the first time that I felt bored in the game. There was nothing for me to do, everything was dying instantly all over the map so I just went afk and made a cup of tea. Whats the point of me trying to improve my frames and get all the mods, arcanes etc, when a frame exists which can nuke the whole map with no effort at all? I apologise if I'm wrong but from what I saw was a Saryn barely even moving.

I feel quite deflated right now and confused on how something so broken is allowed to exist in the game. Bare in my mind I'm quite new so I'm not aware if there are other broken frames, its just this Saryn was the first one I saw.

@MrRixter Take away any ability alteration mod from its build, and I can guarantee you that they won't bore you ever again... But then again, someone told you to join a Clan and play with fellow clan members instead of Public missions... and I have to agree. If you want multiplayer done properly, that's one way to go.

The other way to avoid getting bored is to do it like me... Solo it.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Uhkretor

[Sea_Blue_Stars]

9 minutes ago, TeaHawk said:

What exactly do you call an insult? Just for the record.
And then, I want to hear your opinion. What do you personally think was the reason behind Ember nerf?

This seems to have been editied while I was working on my previous reply. 

I have casually admitted that I wasn't around during the Ember nerf. I have heard it explained several different ways. The most common and least complicated being that she was too good at killing. 

I can't correctly comment on most of it, but I don't think nerfing her (or any other nuke into the ground) is/was a good solution. There are definite balance issues, but they aren't that easy to solve. 

I have played with a few Nuke Frames, namely Equinox and just recently picked up Saryn for mastery. Even with a poorly modded and sloppily played Saryn, I was wiping out enemies like they were nothing. Doesn't that strike you as a little odd? 

Nerfing Saryn into the ground definitely isn't a proper solution, but I do think something has to be done. I really dislike being with Saryns. It doesn't leave much to do. Sure, I could cast abilotoes anyway, run frantically looking for any enemy to kill, but by the time I have found them, they're killed before I can fire a shot. 

This definitely comes across as a problem to me, and it certainly is at least worth DE looking over, is it not? 

I know I don't want her nerfed into the ground. All I think is needed is a few tweaks to make her more cooperative. Make her thin the herd of enemies rather than wipe them out. Make her limited by some factor other Frames might be. Make her have to build up more, something. 

It's at least worth a look.

[AkyFenrir]

il y a 4 minutes, Sea_Blue_Stars a dit :

This seems to have been editied while I was working on my previous reply. 

I have casually admitted that I wasn't around during the Ember nerf. I have heard it explained several different ways. The most common and least complicated being* that she was too good at killing. 

I can't correctly comment on most of it, but I don't think nerfing her (or any other nuke into the ground) is/was a good solution. There are definite balance issues, but they aren't that easy to solve. 

I have played with a few Nuke Frames, namely Equinox and just recently picked up Saryn for mastery. Even with a poorly modded and sloppily played Saryn, I was wiping out enemies like they were nothing. Doesn't that strike you as a little odd? 

Nerfing Saryn into the ground definitely isn't a proper solution, but I do think something has to be done. I really dislike being with Saryns. It doesn't leave much to do. Sure, I could cast abilotoes anyway, run frantically looking for any enemy to kill, but by the time I have found them, they're killed before I can fire a shot. 

This definitely comes across as a problem to me, and it certainly is at least worth DE looking over, is it not? 

I know I don't want her nerfed into the ground. All I think is needed is a few tweaks to make her more cooperative. Make her thin the herd of enemies rather than wipe them out. Make her limited by some factor other Frames might be. Make her have to build up more, something. 

It's at least worth a look.

*You missed the right opportunity to add "people complained" right there.

Ember is "more cooperative" now. Claiming it's possible to tweak nukers in order for them to stop being nukers (let's be honest that's what it's all about) won't change a thing.

Funny no matter how many times we keep saying it, that a nerf would basically need to be into the ground, you keep dodging it by "well i don't want that".

I've stated a few pages ago a constructive post about this as well, funny that someone who likes to respond to everything dodged those 2 :)

Nothing is worth delaying empyrean, and nukers nerf is not something worth looking for anyway. (Can say obvious statements too! i know you will comment about it, i don't care)

[TeaHawk]

36 minutes ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

he most common and least complicated being that she was too good at killing. 

This is unconsistent. She actually was good at killing... <40 levels on low-level runs for relics. That's it. She already suffered a lot of nerfs at the time. People generally complained about Ember AFK nuking everything. Everything below mid-levels in specific missions. But she was (and she remains) patently useless anywhere else.

36 minutes ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

Doesn't that strike you as a little odd? 

No, it does not. Firstly, Saryn is pure nuke, meanwhile Equinox is rahter mid-support. Then, what missions have you played? What levels? Is nuking necessary on every type of missions? Please mind to consider these questions first. I have a long post about how Saryn is designed for specific tasks. I may search for it if you need.

36 minutes ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

I really dislike being with Saryns.

Then you will dislike being with staticor-mirage, blast-gara, meme-strikers and many others. I mean... People are always looking for meta. You nerf one thing — people use another. Maybe it's time to focus more on your personal gameplay quality of life? Playing in squad... Using recruting chat... Avoiding saryn if you don't like to have it in your team....
We may not like something. But have you ever heard of tolerance?
 

 

36 minutes ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

This definitely comes across as a problem to me, and it certainly is at least worth DE looking over, is it not? 

This frame works. You can't deny this. At the very same time there are dozens of forgotten content nobody uses. Vauban, Ember... Maybe DE should fix what is broken first, huh?
 

 

36 minutes ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

Make her thin the herd of enemies

Making her patently useless. You basically want remove nuke from a nuke frame. Does it make a little sense to you? It's like removing healing from healer.


I think the huge problem today is that Saryn is overhyped —> a lot of new players build her —> a lot of Saryns everywhere even if mission type does not require it.

Edited August 19, 2019 by TeaHawk

[Cephalon_Saryndipity]

33 minutes ago, TeaHawk said:

Making her patently useless. You basically want remove nuke from a nuke frame. Does it make a little sense to you? It's like removing healing from healer.

Many, Many, MANY pages ago I suggested something similar where Miasma would act like False Swipe in Pokémon. That is, bring down the HP to a point where a stern look can kill the target. This way, Saryn continues to be a nuke whilst giving the opportunity for kills open to her teammates. It was not well received. Something simpler was suggested that seems like a simple fix as well: instead of Spores affecting Miasma with 4x damage, something like 2x damage. Or no multiplier.

I play Saryn a lot, almost exclusively. Neither of these things would destroy her. They could also help people feel less like they are not contributing.

Honestly I think that once most people get access to her they realize that she is an indispensable tool like Trinity. DPS frames need to exist. She is very good at what she does. Wouldn't it make more sense and feel better to all involved to 'lift the whole', as Steve is fond of saying?

Edited August 19, 2019 by (NSW)Badger