Can something be done about Saryn?

[TeaHawk]

20 minutes ago, (NSW)Badger said:

That is, bring down the HP to a point where a stern look can kill the target. This way, Saryn continues to be a nuke whilst giving the opportunity for kills open to her teammates.

She's not a nuke by definition after this. She becomes a simple de-buffer. And a bad one, as she's likely getting killed by nearest enemy she encounters. That was a terrible idea. The whole concept of this frame is being able to kill fast in the most efficient way all the enemies you won't even see. It's good for defense, extermination and of course SO/ESO. Your idea shows that you clearly don't even understand Saryn's role in this game.

20 minutes ago, (NSW)Badger said:

instead of Spores affecting Miasma with 4x damage, something like 2x damage. Or no multiplier.

I really doubt you have an idea how it will affect gameplay in different scenarios. I'd like to understand, what levels are you talking about? What kind of missions you're focusing on?

20 minutes ago, (NSW)Badger said:

Neither of these things would destroy her.

If you really think that your first concept would not destroy her, you're far from meta-awareness. It's not bad as a whole, but try other frames, different builds for different mission types. You'll see how the game changes.

20 minutes ago, (NSW)Badger said:

Honestly I think that once most people get access to her they realize that she is an indispensable tool like Trinity.

Indeed. However she's not a universal tool. She's not bringing anything useful to a whole bunch of missions there being nuke is useless: defection, excavation, capture, rescue, assasination, disruption, interception, surviva, etc. You always have a better choice. Remember: killing huge crowds is not always useful. Sometimes it's even harmful. Note:

Trinity is only required on Eidolon hunts as a lure-babysitter.

Saryn is only required on SO/ESO for easy focus farm. And thanks God we have Saryn. Try farming 4000000 focus/rank up your gear over 9000 times. You'll praise Saryn.

(to note you can still go on SO/ESO as volt/gara/memestriker/staticormirage/mesa(exclusively on ESO) and it will be slower but fine too)

20 minutes ago, (NSW)Badger said:

She is very good at what she does.

Indeed. And there are reasons she's good. Once you change a tiny parameter you have no idea what to expect. A smallest change may ruin a good frame. Meanwhile we clearly have god-forsaken and long-forgotten content that needs to be reworked. Why prioritizing questionable tweaks what more than half of players don't even want, when you already have a bunch of work to do. There's almost everybody asking for Ember rework for almost a year. But nothing is done. Same with Vauban. A lot of other frames have huge problems and useless abilities (Ballistic battery, choma's firebreath and skin flying... thing etc.)

Here you want DE to start tweaking something that is good at the moment as it is. Maybe not perfect to your eyes. But at least it's synergized well. It works. There so much content that's literally abandoned by DE and everybody are asking to fix. And you're risking to make another boroken frame and make matters even worse. I don't understand this. I simply hate this ideology, because it's stealing attention from real problems. Instead of making real changes (Elemental damage rework) we waste time at tweaking things over and over again.... That's sad. I hope you'll think of that.

Edited August 19, 2019 by TeaHawk

[Sea_Blue_Stars]

2 minutes ago, TeaHawk said:

If you really think that your first concept would not destroy her, you're far from meta-awareness. It's not bad as a whole, but try other frames, different builds for different mission types. You'll see how the game changes.

You... Do know there's more to the game than the meta, right? 

Not everyone cares about the Meta. I personally find it fun-sapping and dull. Making OP Meta Builds is just boring. 

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the Meta is part of this issue. 

No one has to abide by the meta. No one is required to follow it.

You can't act like meta is the only thing that matters, because it really isn't. 

But take that as you will, I suppose. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[TeaHawk]

6 minutes ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

You... Do know there's more to the game than the meta, right?

I'm not even using meta. I have my weird arsenal. What if I say that viper is my favorite secondary after the... lato?

I have no problems dealing damage and enjoying the game even with Saryn in my team. Not to mention that I'm outperforming her on several occasions.
The only reason I speak about meta is to make you understand that this whole game is a freaking farming simulator. People who have played it a lot naturally want farming be faster. As a noob you are enjoying every shot. As a veteran you're maybe still enjoying combat, but once you need to farm — you take your best gear and farm.
You can't fight meta in a grindy looter-shooter. This is simply pointless.
 

Edited August 19, 2019 by TeaHawk

[Klokwerkaos]

2 minutes ago, TeaHawk said:

I'm not even using meta. I have my weird arsenal. What if I say that viper is my favorite secondary after the... lato?

I have no problems dealing damage and enjoying the game even with Saryn in my team. Not to mention that I'm outperforming her on several occasions.
The only reason I speak about meta is to make you understand that this whole game is a freaking farming simulator. People who have played it a lot naturally wants farming be faster. As a noob you are enjoying every shot. As a veteran you're maybe still enjoying combat, but once you need to farm — you take your best gear and farm.
You can't fight meta in a grindy loot-shooter. This is simply pointless.

 

this.

saryn has one place realistically, and it's eso, and  if it's not her, it's the next most busted meta thing that gives the newbies something to cry about.

go up your arsenal folks.

people always crying about saryn, not remembering volt is a better frame overall... derp.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Klokwerkaos

[Sea_Blue_Stars]

3 minutes ago, TeaHawk said:

I'm not even using meta. I have my weird arsenal. What if I say that viper is my favorite secondary after the... lato?

I have no problems dealing damage and enjoying the game even with Saryn in my team. Not to mention that I'm outperforming her on several occasions.
The only reason I speak about meta is to make you understand that this whole game is a freaking farming simulator. People who have played it a lot naturally want farming be faster. As a noob you are enjoying every shot. As a veteran you're maybe still enjoying combat, but once you need to farm — you take your best gear and farm.
You can't fight meta in a grindy looter-shooter. This is simply pointless.
 

Personally, I enjoy taking a while to farm. It gives me something to do while my new MR fodder or cool new Warframe builds. You don't realize how much you can get sometimes when you just dont focus on the farming itself.

And by the time the new thing is done, I have something else ready to build, and I can take shiny new thing out to level while I do it all again. 

Farming is only boring if you make it so. It really doesn't have to be. 

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

To answer the question for the nerf of Ember. Last I checked DE specifically said that it was to make players move more. A lot of players would “press 4 and forget”. So by making her ability reduce in range and burn up more energy, player would be more inclined to move more or run out of energy and move around to gather energy orbs to recast. 

That’s why I suggested that maybe her 4th ability would be based on movement to determine how far her range would go. So let’s start off with the basic 100% range. If she stands perfectly still her range gets reduced to like 25-50%. If she walks her range is 50-75%. If she sprints then it would be 100%. While sliding it would increase to 125%. And the “science” of it would be based on the friction she generates while moving. 

But right now she is completely useless in the plains. And it did not solve the problem with low level missions, which is where most of the complaints were about. “This ember is taking all the kills, waaaaah”. 

Me personally when an ember killed a bunch of guys I was just glad she cleared the way for me. And now I have all frames and every one of them has a team build. One being ember giving teammates a fire buff. Made a post about how much I hated how useless a lot of augments were including Fireball Frenzy. And suggested that she could detonate it nearby herself or something to give herself a buff too then the augment would be worth it. So I’m very glad DE is gonna make that augment and other like it be able to be applied to her as well. 

Banshee was an issue as well because players would just stand in the middle of the map like Hydron and activate 4 and never let go. Some even complained how they didn’t get affinity because the AFK system kicked in since they never moved for over a minute. So DE made her augment to make players using banshee to move more. 

The main reason I aimed for high range was for big maps where enemies were very spread out. I even used Ember for the PoE. But now she is useless in the Plains since her range cannot reach them and to make her range be able to reach them requires weakening the power strength more to where it does less damage. 

So now ember is used way less often than before. It’s actually quite rare for me to find one Ember. Sad. Which is why I hate nerfs because all the people complaining are noobs/newbies. So what? So DE should take away all our mods too since ALL newbies don’t have the mods we have? 

And whose fault is it that people are wanting to use such killframes for resources and affinity? Maybe if DE didn’t make us spend hours to farm for resources to progress a few inches, people wouldn’t be so desperate to have builds that allows them to get the job done quickly. 

But it is what it is. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

22 hours ago, Test-995 said:

If people are dying with tanky frames like saryn or atlas, i suppose they gonna die much more with anything else unless they are using oberon/wisp/trinity, problem is that they don't have healing, we can easily fix it by slapping life strike or anything like that.

And if they don't need to kill enemies, they are more coop friendly than those "using enemy as a resource" things, simply because they can work no matter how enemies doing.

Since volt isn't a problem for saryn (and saryn is helpful for volt aside capacitance), nuke frames won't always end up conflicting, maybe harrow, nidus, capacitance volt, everything with rage/adrenaline could have a problem because all of those need enemies to work.

Rubico prime isn't a good weapon for mass killing.

Well saryn CAN have a problem with equinox, but it's not too much, and for equinox saryn can be actually helpful, her armor stripping greatly increase equinox's damaging potential, while also her spore allows equinox to stacking up damages faster.

Maybe you are right then.

Well, we're talking about a scenario where neither frames are using their abilities, to extend their longevity; in the end the only frames who could possibly do something like that would Inaros or Nidus, largely due to their massive health pools and Nidus's innate healing.

Again, they don't need to kill them, but their abilities are so strong, that they eventually end killing enemies. I believe if their nuke abilities had reasonable limitations, then these nukers wouldn't be as big of a problem as they are now.

The point at which Saryn really begins to help Volt out by stripping armor is usually when both of them start running into trouble. The could work together if we had mission modes that quickly scaled into that range (yes, I know, Arbitrations, but the drawn out reward cycles and nullifier drone spam becomes unbearable after a short while). Although I can't imagine the levels of salt those missions would promptly generate when a particular meta formed.

Well, you did say any frame and good weapon. Admittedly, picking Rubico Prime was indeed malicious, however, your statement was fairly broad; I've could've picked a melee weapon like Rakta dark dagger since that also falls into the category of a "good weapon". In fact, paired with Ash, Covert Lethality and Fatal Teleport, it can be down right godly, in terms of single target damage. But I digress.

Well, I'm glad we could reach an agreement on atleast one thing, today.

[AkyFenrir]

il y a 6 minutes, Sea_Blue_Stars a dit :

Personally, I enjoy taking a while to farm. It gives me something to do while my new MR fodder or cool new Warframe builds. You don't realize how much you can get sometimes when you just dont focus on the farming itself.

And by the time the new thing is done, I have something else ready to build, and I can take shiny new thing out to level while I do it all again. 

Farming is only boring if you make it so. It really doesn't have to be. 

We're done with MR fodders, max MR so far. Only things left are riven and farming platinum. I don't want my platinum farm to get longer.

By the way when someone tells you "I'm not playing meta", it means they don't value pure efficiency.

I'm a Titania main myself, one of the 5most underplayed warframes in the game. I don't like to bulletjump all the time and  i don't have to with Titania.

The entire game doesn't take part in DEFENSE MISSIONS! 

Forcing other players to play the game the way YOU enjoy is extremely selfish.

I'll keep defending nukers against selfish people like you. It's not really hard, only thing you have is "i like my playstyle, your playstyle annoys me  so i've to ruin yours." Doing exactly what you're complaining about Saryn. 

[TeaHawk]

35 minutes ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

Personally, I enjoy taking a while to farm. It gives me something to do while my new MR fodder or cool new Warframe builds. You don't realize how much you can get sometimes when you just dont focus on the farming itself.

Yes I don't. Each time I would find a new interesting weapon I'd love to use I have to put at least 6 formas in it to make it work. Same for warframes. Imagine how long it takes. Just imagine. You're telling me "Enjoy farming". I've enjoyed farming... First 30 minutes. I want my build complete to able to play with it. And you want me spend weeks doing dull repetitive S#&$e? Sorry, m8, your "I enjoy farming" argument is a flimsy plaster for a gaping wound. What rank are you at the moment? I'm too lazy to go check your profile. You probably have no idea how dull and boring this game gets when you're leveling gear to build it properly. Try putting 8 formas in new weapon. You'll see.

35 minutes ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

And by the time the new thing is done, I have something else ready to build, and I can take shiny new thing out to level while I do it all again. 

Again, what ranks are you talking about? Do you have an idea how many gear you should level to reach ranks above 24th? And sometimes it's unpleasant to use. I can't enjoy using something like stug.

Why should I suffer and have to do it slower just because YOU prefer this play-style. If you want to farm slowly then farm slowly. It's your choice. Thing you want will affect everybody. This is selfish.

Edited August 19, 2019 by TeaHawk

[TeaHawk]

19 minutes ago, AkyFenrir said:

By the way when someone tells you "I'm not playing meta", it means they don't value pure efficiency.

That's exact. And they want you to play the same way, because they can't keep up with the meta. It's like slowing down a train due to one passenger unable to sustain the pace.

 

18 minutes ago, AkyFenrir said:

Forcing other players to play the game the way YOU enjoy is extremely selfish.

Yes. Exactly.

 

Thank you.

Edited August 19, 2019 by TeaHawk

[Peter]

I love the hypocrisy of some, you see no problem clearing the map with a 30 meter kripath / scoliac with slide attack macro, then comes a Warframe nuker and suddenly you become the good guy.

Curious.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Peter

[TeaHawk]

4 minutes ago, Peter said:

I love the hypocrisy of some, you see no problem clearing the map with a 30 meter kripath / scoliac with slide attack macro, then comes a Warframe nuker and suddenly you become the good guy.

Curious.

It's not hypocrisy. It's concurrence! Natural instinct.
"Reeeee can't one-hit whole map while wanking with my meme strike slide macros cuz of that stupid Saryn stealing the combo!!!"

Edited August 19, 2019 by TeaHawk

[Sea_Blue_Stars]

21 minutes ago, AkyFenrir said:

We're done with MR fodders, max MR so far. Only things left are riven and farming platinum. I don't want my platinum farm to get longer.

By the way when someone tells you "I'm not playing meta", it means they don't value pure efficiency.

I'm a Titania main myself, one of the 5most underplayed warframes in the game. I don't like to bulletjump all the time and  i don't have to with Titania.

The entire game doesn't take part in DEFENSE MISSIONS! 

Forcing other players to play the game the way YOU enjoy is extremely selfish.

I'll keep defending nukers against selfish people like you. It's not really hard, only thing you have is "i like my playstyle, your playstyle annoys me  so i've to ruin yours." Doing exactly what you're complaining about Saryn. 

I also use my Titania, a lot. I enjoy her skins and abilities and she's my favorite for Ayatan hunts. 

She's a great frame and she's a lot of fun. 

That aside, let me offer you a perspective.

Nukes are honestly pretty selfish. 

Forcing other players to have nothing to do is incredibly selfish. Taking every kill in a mission is extremely selfish. Having your teammates exist purely to spawn you more enemies is selfish. 

I really don't get what your point here is. 

6 minutes ago, TeaHawk said:

Sorry, m8, your "I enjoy farming" argument is a flimsy plaster for a gaping wound. What rank are you at the moment?

Surely you can believe that someone enjoys the farming? It lets me kill time. 

And, Mastery Rank doesn't really matter that much. All it is is a content lock. After that, it doesn't mean anything. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

2 hours ago, TeaHawk said:

If one small group of people composed of meta-unaware newbies, vile melee metagamers seeking advantage and trolls makes a statement which is yet impossible to defend, but they are still defending it, they are nothing but pathetic. It's not an insult. It's just a matter of fact. I'm sorry.

But that isn't a fact; it's just your opinion.

In my opinion, I find McDonalds utterly destestable, vile, and repulsive, because of how they can get away with such low-quality service, and garbage cuisine. I'd rather eat a barrel of cilantro seasoned Carolina Reapers, topped off with a beer-stein of Pepto-Bismol mixed with mustard, than one of those molding rags they pass off as food.

Now, does that mean McDonalds actually serves molding rags made to look like hamburgers? No. Of course not, because that is strictly my opinion. It's insulting to everyone who enjoys that cheap fastfood, but not to the people who agree with me.

So yes, you are being needlessly insulting.

2 hours ago, TeaHawk said:

You did not answer on my question about Ember. Why so? Maybe, because you somehow understand complainers responsibility behind her destruction. Tell to Ember mains about balancing. You'll see. She was a victim of same category of people. Imagine how many players have suffered? Then again it's a matter of fact.

Ember was a one-trick pony. Of course once you break that pony's legs, it's not going to be able to perform the only trick it knows. As I mentioned earlier, frames who specialise in only one thing always get hit the hardest by the nerf bat, because their kit offers nothing else of worth.

Spamshee was nerfed, but she still landed on her feet, because she had two other abilities that are highly commendable. Sonar is one of the best single target damage abilities, in this game. I used her for the Wolf Hunt at the end of Nightwave season 1, and he just got absolutely melted, regardless of which angle you hit him from, since Sonar can be cast multiple times. Ember offered nothing like that, and fire damage is one of the most useless types.

2 hours ago, TeaHawk said:

You know that Saryn nerf will certainly harm a lot of people. You did not make any statistic research to uncover will it do more harm or good. You have no idea how many would suffer if it's done. Although you still ask DE to nerf her, because it will positively affect you personally. Isn't it egocentric by definition? Is not it insidious? Tell me, m8

Did you do any statistical research on how many people actually utilise Saryn? Sure, we have the people in this thread, but bear in mind that they only represent a very minor fraction of the community. We have the graph that they showed on a Devstream before, but it didn't really give you any raw numbers, and not mention, that graph could be pretty dated by now.

You find this thread threatening to your position of in-game power, does this mean you're insecure? Surely this signifies that you have a deeply rooted fear of being rendered impotent!

 

 

[TeaHawk]

1 minute ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

Surely you can believe that someone enjoys the farming? It lets me kill time. 

I may enjoy farming as well. Efficient farming what Warframe is also about. 5% shoyld not force the remaining 95% to play this game the way they like it. You're killing time? Great. I have no time to kill. Bob has no time to Kill. Muhamed has no time to kill. etc. Think of them.

3 minutes ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

And, Mastery Rank doesn't really matter that much. All it is is a content lock. After that, it doesn't mean anything. 

I'm sorry but it does. Almost in every field. I suppose you're stuck around 16 level. That means you're really far from understanding what farming in this game really is.

[TeaHawk]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

because of how they can get away with such low-quality service, and garbage cuisine.

This is already not an opinion. It's a fact as well as everything I've said. I'm sorry.

11 minutes ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

It's insulting to everyone who enjoys that cheap fastfood

Why? Because people are unwilling to assume their guilty pleasures. Not everything we love is good. Only mature man can accept this.

11 minutes ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

Ember was a one-trick pony. Of course once you break that pony's legs, it's not going to be able to perform the only trick it knows. As I mentioned earlier, frames who specialise in only one thing always get hit the hardest by the nerf bat, because their kit offers nothing else of worth.

Indeed. Now we have a pony with broken legs. And we have it for... something like year. Maybe... it's time... to rework it a bit? No. Okay. Let's make a shark with no tail! People love hurting things.

11 minutes ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

Did you do any statistical research on how many people actually utilise Saryn? Sure, we have the people in this thread, but bear in mind that they only represent a very minor fraction of the community. We have the graph that they showed on a Devstream before, but it didn't really give you any raw numbers, and not mention, that graph could be pretty dated by now.

I don't. But I'm not the one who's asking for change here. I'm not attentionwhoring. I'm not asking to do anything about current situation. I don't need graphs for it. You do.
You have to have solid crystal clear arguments and study to ask DE to tweak something, if you really want the best.

Edited August 19, 2019 by TeaHawk

[Sea_Blue_Stars]

7 minutes ago, TeaHawk said:

I'm sorry but it does. Almost in every field. I suppose you're stuck around 16 level. That means you're really far from understanding what farming in this game really is.

Right, sorry. Forgot MR exists for elitists to feel justified for being rude. 

[TeaHawk]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

You find this thread threatening to your position of in-game power, does this mean you're insecure? Surely this signifies that you have a deeply rooted fear of being rendered impotent!

Your are right and wrong. I would not benefit from Saryn nerf. Yes. It affects me.However, I don't play her personally. It will only affect occasional ranking. I've already prepared a couple of options to go on. I don't experience any kind of fear. Only disgust in community full of selfish vindictive ignorant players seeking to harm the others.

7 minutes ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

Right, sorry. Forgot MR exists for elitists to feel justified for being rude. 

MR affects your initial mod capacity, number of trades per day, number of standing per day for each faction, number of slots, etc. If you consider this unless... Well you just don't understand this game. You are a perfect example of what complainer does represent in general.

Edited August 19, 2019 by TeaHawk

[project_eulogy]

Yes, Saryn is pretty powerful. But you asking for nerfs will end her up in the Ember pile. Useless at higher difficulties. You may as well remove Rhino's Iron Skin while you're at it too. Cuz its OP. Especially in the Ambulas fight and they drop the Ion Cannon on you right after you Iron Skin. RIP their damage.

To immediately alleviate your problem:

-Get an organized group.
-Don't use randoms
-If you use randoms and get a Saryn, Leave the Mission

Currently as it is, there is no true endgame content. What? Eidolons? thats a joke. Leveling up stuff in Hydron? Not anywhere near end game. I can solo every single mission regardless of the difficulty with a Rad Ivara or Irrad Loki. Or i can go the fun route with Trinity P or Nekros and start throwing out Specters and raise an army all while being utterly invincible in Arbitration indefinitely(its actually pretty hilarious to have all 4 people drop the max amount of specters and huddle under a bubble).

Tbh, I just made myself a goal to "Collect all the things". Basically, Waframe is now Pokeframe for me as content is either easy or too stupid hard to solo depending on equipment. MR means nothing except max daily rep/void traces, which i like. So max out your MR, do the thing and just move on to the next game. Since you're new, enjoy the free affinity? Leveling non-dps frames, having a Saryn in your group is an absolute godsend because the massive DPS means youre going to level faster.

[TeaHawk]

3 minutes ago, project_eulogy said:

-If you use randoms and get a Saryn, Leave the Mission

To complainers:

Yeah. If you like slow farming, why can't you sacrifice 40 seconds of loading? You want everyone to suffer just because you are too lazy to form a squad. That's simply insane. And you call "insidious" and "selfish" insults after this? Cmon

Edited August 19, 2019 by TeaHawk

[Sea_Blue_Stars]

5 minutes ago, TeaHawk said:

MR affects your initial mod capacity, number of trades per day, number of standing per day for each faction, number of slots, etc. If you consider this unless... Well you just don't understand this game. You are a perfect example of what complainer does represent in general.

Sure, it does that.

But you were asking purely as a way to invalidate and weasel around anything else I might say. You're asking for it so you can tell me I'm not allowed to have an opinion on this in some form or another.

Which is as toxic and elitist as it gets. 

But again, go off I suppose. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[TeaHawk]

16 minutes ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

You're asking for it so you can tell me I'm not allowed to have an opinion on this in some form or another.

Yes I do! If you're not even close to have good builds/you never got on arbitration/you never killed a level 200 enemy/you have no idea how grindy this game is/you never farmed for hours/you never spend your weekend leveling S#&$y gear only to get your riven nerfed 2 days after. And you pretend to understand the game. You have nothing to do in meta-discussion thread. You just don't understand the core game mechanics yet. You are ignorant not as insult but as definition of ignorant.

You want to change the game whose rules you don't even know yet. It's ridiculous.

 

16 minutes ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

Which is as toxic and elitist as it gets. 

When you take a plane, would you prefer it to be under control of experienced pilot or 6-months flying stage graduate?

Also, the word toxic means only one thing today: someone able to express opinion freely. As soon as you don't like somebody, you call him toxic.
You don't have arguments in a high tempered debate? Call your opponent toxic.

Your last statement perfectly depicts how weak your arguments are. You can't operate them. I would not ask what is your MR should you provide solid arguments. But you did not. I've asked about your MR, because you sound like someone who played warframe a couple of days. That's the impression you give. And as we can see, it's not only impression, is it?

Edited August 19, 2019 by TeaHawk

[Sea_Blue_Stars]

3 minutes ago, TeaHawk said:

Yes I do! If you're not even close to have good builds/you never got on arbitration/you never killed a level 200 enemy/you have no idea how grindy this game is/you never farmed for hours/you never spend your weekend leveling S#&$y gear only to get your riven nerfed 2 days after. And you pretend to understand the game. You have nothing to do in meta-discussion thread. You just don't understand the core game mechanics yet. You are ignorant not as insult but as definition of ignorant.

 

When you take a plane, would you prefer it to be under control of experienced pilot or 6-months flying stage graduate?
Also, the word toxic means only one thing today: someone able to express opinion freely. As soon as you don't like somebody, you call him toxic.
You don't have arguments in a high tempered debate? Call your opponent toxic.

Your last statement perfectly depicts how weak your arguments are. You can't operate them. I would not ask what is your MR should you provide solid arguments. But you did not. I've asked about your MR, because you sound like someone who played warframe a couple of days. That the impression you give. And as we can see, it's not only impression, isn't it?

This is all literally toxic and elitist. 

Seriously dude, just give it up. The only person you're making look bad is yourself.

The plane argument has no place here, because MR only equates to how much stuff you have. Not experience. 

But again, go off I guess. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[TeaHawk]

22 minutes ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

The plane argument has no place here, because MR only equates to how much stuff you have. Not experience. 

Let's develop. To get mastery rank you need to level up gear that makes you familiar with different weapons, frames and mechanics. Playing the very same frame for 1000 hours the very same mission does surely make you experienced. Experienced in playing one frame on one mission. Hence, MR shows that you have at least tried different content and possibilities that game provides. I'm sorry, but you can't deny it. You can have 4k hours in this game doing only kuva farm and selling rivens. Do you know this game? No, you don't. Mastery as oposite shows that you have an overall impression of the game. Prove me wrong, m8.

You can call me toxic elitist and send me off but it only shows your weakness. You have not given any valuable argument by so far. Your rework idea is absurd and does not make any sense. When flaws in your arguments and lack of experience are exposed, you're immediately calling your opponent toxic.
I repeat my words, you are the perfect example of what complainers are. Thank you very much for this.

Edited August 19, 2019 by TeaHawk

[Test-995]

1 hour ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

Well, we're talking about a scenario where neither frames are using their abilities, to extend their longevity; in the end the only frames who could possibly do something like that would Inaros or Nidus, largely due to their massive health pools and Nidus's innate healing.

Again, they don't need to kill them, but their abilities are so strong, that they eventually end killing enemies. I believe if their nuke abilities had reasonable limitations, then these nukers wouldn't be as big of a problem as they are now.

The point at which Saryn really begins to help Volt out by stripping armor is usually when both of them start running into trouble. The could work together if we had mission modes that quickly scaled into that range (yes, I know, Arbitrations, but the drawn out reward cycles and nullifier drone spam becomes unbearable after a short while). Although I can't imagine the levels of salt those missions would promptly generate when a particular meta formed.

Well, you did say any frame and good weapon. Admittedly, picking Rubico Prime was indeed malicious, however, your statement was fairly broad; I've could've picked a melee weapon like Rakta dark dagger since that also falls into the category of a "good weapon". In fact, paired with Ash, Covert Lethality and Fatal Teleport, it can be down right godly, in terms of single target damage. But I digress.

Well, I'm glad we could reach an agreement on atleast one thing, today.

I think i meant to say all of them can survive without nuking/damaging enemy unlike frames like harrow, but nidus works.

Nuking being too strong and solo oriented abilities being solo oriented is different matter i guess.

So i say problems in enemies too, since they start to be actually helpful at little higher level, that those enemies are too weak to stand against our abilities/weapons, warframe being semi-afk fest by massive AoE could also counts as problem but i like ez game like that, not only when using them but also having them in party.

Oh sorry, please replace the word "any good weapon" with "any good mass killing weapon".