Can something be done about Saryn?

[(XBOX)LZonut]

What if there was an enemy in higher levels that cannot be affected by abilities or has high resistance like a Nox, that is stronger depending on how many enemies are around them? Less enemies means physically stronger (more damage to attacks), more means weaker? This enemy seems like a good idea to me, but there might be somethings that are bad about this idea I haven't thought of. This enemy will probably be with Grineer or Corpus. Spawns in later portions of levels, or can spawn in early parts if you think it's a good idea.

Edited August 19, 2019 by (XB1)LordZonut

[Sea_Blue_Stars]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)LordZonut said:

What if there was an enemy in higher levels that cannot be affected by abilities or has high resistance like a Nox, that is stronger depending on how many enemies are around them? Less enemies means physically stronger (more damage to attacks), more means weaker? This enemy seems like a good idea to me, but there might be somethings that are bad about this idea I haven't thought of. This enemy will probably be with Grineer or Corpus. Spawns in later portions of levels, or can spawn in early parts if you think it's a good idea.

Tougher enemies overall is definitely one way to go. Something that co sistently survives hard core nukes would be a step in the right direction.

[AkyFenrir]

il y a une heure, Sea_Blue_Stars a dit :

Right, sorry. Forgot MR exists for elitists to feel justified for being rude. 

MR is a demonstration we've experience in grinding the game. You want to make the grind more tedious for us. Being MR16 is ridiculously and only prove you've not grinded that much.  Therefore, whenever you want to make the game more tedious for us because you're too lazy to leave a game when there's something you don't like, that's the selfish thing right there. You do have an option to stop playing with Nukers. If you nerf nukers WE DON'T !

il y a une heure, TeaHawk a dit :

Your are right and wrong. I would not benefit from Saryn nerf. Yes. It affects me.However, I don't play her personally. It will only affect occasional ranking. I've already prepared a couple of options to go on. I don't experience any kind of fear. Only disgust in community full of selfish vindictive ignorant players seeking to harm the others.

MR affects your initial mod capacity, number of trades per day, number of standing per day for each faction, number of slots, etc. If you consider this unless... Well you just don't understand this game. You are a perfect example of what complainer does represent in general.

consider this as a complement of my previous point (well said :) 

il y a 52 minutes, Sea_Blue_Stars a dit :

Sure, it does that.

But you were asking purely as a way to invalidate and weasel around anything else I might say. You're asking for it so you can tell me I'm not allowed to have an opinion on this in some form or another.

Which is as toxic and elitist as it gets. 

But again, go off I suppose. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I wouldn't use a word used by "game journalist" to ridiculise legitimate criticism. Oh wait, you do exactly that !

We can use your MR as an indicator you didn't play much the game/ don't care about it.This way we can say you want to nerf something affecting MR grinding for everyone.

By the way Saryn doesn't get any affinity when she uses her skills. So doing defense as Saryn is litteraly useless. There's ESO for focus, and survival will always be better for ressources farm. Saryn ain't good in survival.

 

il y a 34 minutes, Sea_Blue_Stars a dit :

This is all literally toxic and elitist. 

Seriously dude, just give it up. The only person you're making look bad is yourself.

The plane argument has no place here, because MR only equates to how much stuff you have. Not experience. 

But again, go off I guess. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Repeating "Toxic" and "Elitist" because you can't say anything to improve your argumentation about saryn nerf. You should be looking for a gaming journalist job, you've all the required "qualities"! (I'm so cool i'm even offering you career suggestion!) 

il y a 6 minutes, (XB1)LordZonut a dit :

What if there was an enemy in higher levels that cannot be affected by abilities or has high resistance like a Nox, that is stronger depending on how many enemies are around them? Less enemies means physically stronger (more damage to attacks), more means weaker? This enemy seems like a good idea to me, but there might be somethings that are bad about this idea I haven't thought of. This enemy will probably be with Grineer or Corpus. Spawns in later portions of levels, or can spawn in early parts if you think it's a good idea.

Well there are... You must be in the very beginning of the starchart if you didn't see them yet. (Nothing wrong in being a beginner but proposing stuff already in the game doesn't help here)

[Sea_Blue_Stars]

3 minutes ago, AkyFenrir said:

MR is a demonstration we've experience in grinding the game. You want to make the grind more tedious for us. Being MR16 is ridiculously and only prove you've not grinded that much.  Therefore, whenever you want to make the game more tedious for us because you're too lazy to leave a game when there's something you don't like, that's the selfish thing right there. You do have an option to stop playing with Nukers. If you nerf nukers WE DON'T !

Okay, sure. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Aldain]

24 minutes ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

Something that co sistently survives hard core nukes would be a step in the right direction.

Only issue with that is if you make something that can survive a hardcore nuke then everything that isn't a hardcore nuke tickles it (coughWolfofSaturnSixcough).

Damage inflation is just making everything in Warframe that isn't part of that inflation worse; weapons, frames, it doesn't matter which, DE can't make any content that doesn't have outrageous limitations or insane spongy enemies because of the sheer power creep.

More nullifiers/ability immunity, more damage resistance, more damage caps, things like this are the only reason some things don't explode instantly because the sheer power scale we have right now is absurd.

[Klokwerkaos]

2 hours ago, (PS4)chris1pat8twins said:

And whose fault is it that people are wanting to use such killframes for resources and affinity? Maybe if DE didn’t make us spend hours to farm for resources to progress a few inches, people wouldn’t be so desperate to have builds that allows them to get the job done quickly.

this is a fair but bad criticism.

if you don't want a grinding slog you can pay, or, you can not do F2P games.  

if  you don't  pay with money, you pay with time, and that's the trade off.  if you want reasonable reward structures get a solo play experience from the 90s that doesn't  connect to the internet before they invented microtransactions, because now even single player games are infested with that  crap... but the one  place grind has a reasonable place to  exist is in  free to play games, which warframe is.  

additionally, no matter what, people will always be hunting for how to be most efficient  and win the hardest, best and fastest, not just in warframe but in any game, so decreasing grind would leave people  with  less pressure, but  they would still use the meta to clear stuff at a fast rate.  plus de would be giving away a free game  without much incentive for people to support it.

like, you're right, the grind sucks, but it's there  by very intentional design, and in a way, it's completely  justified.

don't get me wrong, i totally gripe  about crap drop  rates,  especially  when i can't buy  something  with  plat, but... even if i'm  not buying with plat, at least it's giving me something to do.

 

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

56 minutes ago, TeaHawk said:

This is already not an opinion. It's a fact as well as everything I've said. I'm sorry.

Why? Because people are unwilling to assume their guilty pleasures. Not everything we love is good. Only mature man can accept this.

Indeed. Now we have a pony with broken legs. And we have it for... something like year. Maybe... it's time... to rework it a bit? No. Okay. Let's make a shark with no tail! People love hurting things.

I don't. But I'm not the one who's asking for change here. I'm not attentionwhoring. I'm not asking to do anything about current situation. I don't need graphs for it. You do.
You have to have solid crystal clear arguments and study to ask DE to tweak something, if you really want the best.

An opinion is not a fact. "We breath air" is a fact. It is a fact, because we know it is true, thus making it a factual statement. "The colour yellow is ugly" is an opinion, I believe yellow is a hideous colour, other people live and die by the colour, neither of us are right or wrong, because our opinion of the colour is based of off our own preferences and perceptions.

Repeating an opinion doesn't make it a fact or give credence to validity. Actually, misconstruing an opinion as the truth is something people with an agenda frequently do. Saying that the people who enjoy fast-food consider McDonalds a guilty pleasure insinuates that they are aware of how bad their service is, but knowingly partake in the consumption of it. This would be incorrect, since they are people, generally adolescents, who love eating junk food, such as McDonalds, Cheetos, and high fructose corn syrup in a bottle, health advisories be damned.

You completely dis-regarded my explanation on why Ember turned out so bad, and immediately launched an insult at the people you should be engaging in a constructive debate, in order to understand why they think Saryn is so bad.

When engaging a group of individuals in a debate, it's highly advisable to provide a basis for your counter arguments. Saying that you don't need to explain why you think the other side is wrong, but they should provide a highly detailed, peer reviewed research paper on why they think xyz is bad, complete with pie-charts, raw numbers, and varying percentages based on the cultural, geographical, and the socio-economic differences between the demographics they interviewed, paints the mental picture of a highly arrogant, churlish, imp who believes he wins any argument, simply by saying "no, you're wrong"; regardless of the magnitude of evidence contradicting him.

This evidenced by the number of posts where you have mostly been parroting other peoples arguments and adding "yes, this!" or some ad hominem attack.

Which leads me to believe, that arguing with you, is a tremendous waste of my time.

[TeaHawk]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

This evidenced by the number of posts where you have mostly been parroting other peoples arguments and adding "yes, this!" or some ad hominem attack.

I've already given arguments 20 pages ago. You did not read them. I don't have to repeat it twice. It would be "parroting" myself. Also, your second post in this discussion is purely off topic and does not bring anything valuable except what you called ad hominem yourself. That does not make you shine.

If you want a constructive discussion mind to check what was previously said and argued in this topic. Oh.. I forgot... It's a waste of time as you've said. Goodbye. Have a wonderful day. I really hope you're enjoying your McDonalds meal right at this moment.
It's been a pleasure to meet such a mature well-read man, who have learned a couple of latinisms making him look smarter.

Edited August 19, 2019 by TeaHawk

[AkyFenrir]

il y a 3 minutes, (PS4)The1stAzrael a dit :

When engaging a group of individuals in a debate, it's highly advisable to provide a basis for your counter arguments. Saying that you don't need to explain why you think the other side is wrong, but they should provide a highly detailed, peer reviewed research paper on why they think xyz is bad, complete with pie-charts, raw numbers, and varying percentages based on the cultural, geographical, and the socio-economic differences between the demographics they interviewed, paints the mental picture of a highly arrogant, churlish, imp who believes he wins any argument, simply by saying "no, you're wrong"; regardless of the magnitude of evidence contradicting him.

This evidenced by the number of posts where you have mostly been parroting other peoples arguments and adding "yes, this!" or some ad hominem attack.

Which leads me to believe, that arguing with you, is a tremendous waste of my time.

Let's recapitulate arguments here :

"First time meeting a Saryn, can't play bouh nerf plz" (In a sortie by the way, who wants to waste time on sorties seriously)

"I can't enjoy the game so Saryn players should get their fun removed so I can have fun myself."

"Nukers are a problem because they're destroying balance in the game". Except they speak of balance in ESO and in very few Defense mission. There's no saryn anywhere else.

"I want this game to be a completely different game". Well there's other games out there.

"When you get saryn you don't need anything else"! Sure go do spy missions and come back if you dare. Or any mission not being ESO, Defense, Mobile Defense. There's a lot of choice.

Those are the 4 arguments everyone keep parroting against saryn! There's litteraly nothing of value."

"It's possible to nerf Saryn range/number ennemies affected/forcing LOS" Usually you'll get a "Don't want to make the same as Ember". Well that's how to get an Ember like nerf 101 right there

Pointing out those are so obvious bad arguments is sadly needed. 

Arguing with anyone repeating one of those 5 arguments is a tremendous waste of time. If we don't you'll ruin a good warframe. Sad reality hu?

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

10 minutes ago, AkyFenrir said:

Let's recapitulate arguments here :

"First time meeting a Saryn, can't play bouh nerf plz" (In a sortie by the way, who wants to waste time on sorties seriously)

"I can't enjoy the game so Saryn players should get their fun removed so I can have fun myself."

"Nukers are a problem because they're destroying balance in the game". Except they speak of balance in ESO and in very few Defense mission. There's no saryn anywhere else.

"I want this game to be a completely different game". Well there's other games out there.

"When you get saryn you don't need anything else"! Sure go do spy missions and come back if you dare. Or any mission not being ESO, Defense, Mobile Defense. There's a lot of choice.

Those are the 4 arguments everyone keep parroting against saryn! There's litteraly nothing of value."

"It's possible to nerf Saryn range/number ennemies affected/forcing LOS" Usually you'll get a "Don't want to make the same as Ember". Well that's how to get an Ember like nerf 101 right there

Pointing out those are so obvious bad arguments is sadly needed. 

Arguing with anyone repeating one of those 5 arguments is a tremendous waste of time. If we don't you'll ruin a good warframe. Sad reality hu?

While those kinds of criticisms are rampant on this thread, they do not make up the entirety of this discussion. People like zhellon, Cubewano, and myself have provided fairly well rounded responses, while the opposition has also produced a number of formidable sparring partners.

The individual whom my response is directed at clearly has no intention of providing anything other than comedic relief. He believes he shouldn't have to reiterate or repeat his previous defense, for no given reason. If he'd simply restated his points and arguments there would have been something for me to work with, and we'd be able to go forward from there. Instead, he wants others to dig through the dozens of replies, in order to begin the process of debating his arguments and points.

I also find it amusing he mocks me as if eloquent speakers are nothing more than mythical creatures on the Internet...

 

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

1 hour ago, Test-995 said:

I think i meant to say all of them can survive without nuking/damaging enemy unlike frames like harrow, but nidus works.

Nuking being too strong and solo oriented abilities being solo oriented is different matter i guess.

So i say problems in enemies too, since they start to be actually helpful at little higher level, that those enemies are too weak to stand against our abilities/weapons, warframe being semi-afk fest by massive AoE could also counts as problem but i like ez game like that, not only when using them but also having them in party.

Oh sorry, please replace the word "any good weapon" with "any good mass killing weapon".

 

Our enemies being vastly underpowered is where the heart of the issue lies.

As long as they remain in their current state, we will continue to encounter this problem. I believe already addressed this fact, in one of my older posts. However, I also touched upon the unlikely hood of this issue being acknowledged by DE and properly dealt with.

Nerfing Saryn temporarily solves a portion of the problem, but this horrendous damage system shall continue to generate problems, until DE is forced to take a look at it. Which isn't going to happen, anytime in the near future.

I find Lenz to be an excellent mass killer, however, due to the restrictions placed upon it, you probably won't be able to nuke things at the same level of Saryn (I am excluding rivens in this estimation, due to how problematic they are).

[Tenno76856]

Silly question. If you kill X so many to times ingame Y assassin usually comes after you (wouldnt this mean nukeframes are frequently targetted?). Havent read whole thread but why dont devs make special assassins pop up when there is a mass death/nuke attempt of X caused by Y ability, which are awkward for the WF using that ability to deal with.Might make certain WF using certain abilities second thoughts on using.wouldnt be a nerf. But side effect of using it?

[(XBOX)Skylar McCloud]

On 2019-08-02 at 10:13 AM, MrRixter said:

I'm a fairly new player and today I got matched with a Saryn at my sortie. It was the first time that I felt bored in the game. There was nothing for me to do, everything was dying instantly all over the map so I just went afk and made a cup of tea. Whats the point of me trying to improve my frames and get all the mods, arcanes etc, when a frame exists which can nuke the whole map with no effort at all? I apologise if I'm wrong but from what I saw was a Saryn barely even moving.

I feel quite deflated right now and confused on how something so broken is allowed to exist in the game. Bare in my mind I'm quite new so I'm not aware if there are other broken frames, its just this Saryn was the first one I saw.

Saryn was remade this way fir the older players who like to do high end game content. 4 hrs in Mot or wave 20 ESO. Yes even lvel 100 Sortie enemies. Armor scaling is outrageous in this game and we were given a blessing with this Saryn. Because she can scale infinitely to get the kills per second needed to run end game missions like Mot survival,ESO,Arbitrations. You're new I get it,but at the same time so much of the new content,updates,and other features have been new player oriented. This Saryn rework is targeted for us end game players cause they haven't given us anything in a very long time. Don't take that away from us. Don't be that guy.

[(XBOX)Skylar McCloud]

3 hours ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

This is all literally toxic and elitist. 

Seriously dude, just give it up. The only person you're making look bad is yourself.

The plane argument has no place here, because MR only equates to how much stuff you have. Not experience. 

But again, go off I guess. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

TelitistTrue. I joined my 1s1st clan at MR9. 1s1st time ever running with my new brethren. We had an elitist 18. Who i spent most of the 20 waves reviving because he was hot garbage. Tried to tell me i should know my place Rooky. He challenged me to a dual. I had a Val Kitty. Prime. He brought Nidus. Stupidly I might adf. I modded viral killed him w times in best of 3. He didnt score once. He got so pissed of that he quit the clan. Ive ran into random Mr 27 that were crat anf teens and younger thar were str8 up soldiers. MR only means you've ranked up a bunch of stuff.

[(XBOX)Skylar McCloud]

4 hours ago, project_eulogy said:

Yes, Saryn is pretty powerful. But you asking for nerfs will end her up in the Ember pile. Useless at higher difficulties. You may as well remove Rhino's Iron Skin while you're at it too. Cuz its OP. Especially in the Ambulas fight and they drop the Ion Cannon on you right after you Iron Skin. RIP their damage.

To immediately alleviate your problem:

-Get an organized group.
-Don't use randoms
-If you use randoms and get a Saryn, Leave the Mission

Currently as it is, there is no true endgame content. What? Eidolons? thats a joke. Leveling up stuff in Hydron? Not anywhere near end game. I can solo every single mission regardless of the difficulty with a Rad Ivara or Irrad Loki. Or i can go the fun route with Trinity P or Nekros and start throwing out Specters and raise an army all while being utterly invincible in Arbitration indefinitely(its actually pretty hilarious to have all 4 people drop the max amount of specters and huddle under a bubble).

Tbh, I just made myself a goal to "Collect all the things". Basically, Waframe is now Pokeframe for me as content is either easy or too stupid hard to solo depending on equipment. MR means nothing except max daily rep/void traces, which i like. So max out your MR, do the thing and just move on to the next game. Since you're new, enjoy the free affinity? Leveling non-dps frames, having a Saryn in your group is an absolute godsend because the massive DPS means youre going to level faster.

Preach

[Aldain]

2 hours ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

Nerfing Saryn temporarily solves a portion of the problem, but this horrendous damage system shall continue to generate problems, until DE is forced to take a look at it. Which isn't going to happen, anytime in the near future.

This I can agree on, there is some faint hope of changes coming with Empyrean according to a tweet from Steve iirc, but I'm not holding my breath.

The issue isn't nuke frames, it is that nothing in this game needs or demands anything except more damage, and when damage is so great that it overshadows anything that deals less or no damage (cc frames, support frames, etc.) you wind up with this unequal mess of a system.

There are people who are saying "just buff other frames" but how would anyone do that? How would anyone buff Excalibur up to Sayrn's or Mesa's level for example, or how would Vauban be able to compete with CC when others can kill enemies so fast with weapons and abilities which makes CC useless.

The issue is in structure, both of the damage system being clunky and enemies being either cannon fodder or number sponges, frames that can exploit the damage system stand far above others in terms of "efficiency", which isn't really an issue in most mission types, but then again, most mission types are a mess and don't even need player interaction most of the time so other frames don't get a time to shine (other than Spy missions for Loki and Ivara for example).

I'm actually hopeful for Empyrean for this reason, because the design doesn't cater to one type of frame (from what we've seen) but also needs players to cooperate (what a concept for a co-op game) in ways that aren't just "Stack damage on the nuke frame" or "Feed energy to the Frost so he can bubble every 4 seconds".

[Shelusine]

A Saryn will do that kind of stuff if you are new. Once you get further you will get to do things and even outdps the Saryn in most scenarios. I mean... I was in an instance earlier with low MR players as Garuda. I did 98% of damage with my ranged melee while they kept on dying. Warframe is just that kind of game once you get further.

[Andaius]

I sorta miss Saryn doing Toxic damage, if they can make it spread stronger and stronger toxic damage sorta like she did before, will add back in the synergy from her 3 and keep with her theme. only thing needed to to make it less tricky to boost the damage. You can even keep the stack system but with toxic.

[Xepthrichros]

On 2019-08-18 at 2:13 PM, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

By sitting down and playing thumb twiddling simulator? Even when enemies are CC'd or otherwise unresponsive you still get to actually play the game you signed up for.

And not everyone signed up to play "shoot brain dead AI simulator". An AI whose patterns one generally knows after the first few weeks of playing. Then it's just a matter of tanking the damage / killing them faster than they can even deal damage. Thereafter they play warframe for other content. Thus they rather kill fodder enemies in Hydron fast so they can get their freshly forma'ed gear back to 30, and go back to their scheduled 3x3 tridolon hunting on PoE or Orb Mother slaying. Different people signed up for different things. Not everyone is a Hydron main like some of you. And in ESO, Simaris' dialogue literally says "do not relent" "kill faster", implying what DE was thinking when they built that game mode, but meanwhile forum mains are like, "no, must nerf all of us so we kill slower"

 

But other people's wants or ideas for the game don't matter right? Only forum mains matter.

I myself am not a routine tridolon hunter but I can understand very much why some people choose to use nukers and want to do things fast. And yes, when I really want to go slow, I play solo, I don't go into public games and do passive aggressive things like AFK and watch the nuker, or create host migrations when I see some nuker that I think will disrupt my desire to go slow. That's the nature of public game, you live with whoever and whatever RNG gives you. Can't accept? Don't want to accommodate? Go solo. This is not a troll suggestion to be honest, this is very much just being courteous to other players - i.e. accepting both fast AND slow methods, i.e. variety and diversity. Not just demanding only slow methods allowed (i.e killing diversity and creating homogeneity) , which is what most people on the "nerf the things" camp are calling for. One side is very much advocating for restricting and limiting player options - the nerf side, and yet they somehow are completely oblivious to their unfriendly approach towards others. 

[AkyFenrir]

Il y a 9 heures, (XB1)Skylar McCloud a dit :

TelitistTrue. I joined my 1s1st clan at MR9. 1s1st time ever running with my new brethren. We had an elitist 18. Who i spent most of the 20 waves reviving because he was hot garbage. Tried to tell me i should know my place Rooky. He challenged me to a dual. I had a Val Kitty. Prime. He brought Nidus. Stupidly I might adf. I modded viral killed him w times in best of 3. He didnt score once. He got so pissed of that he quit the clan. Ive ran into random Mr 27 that were crat anf teens and younger thar were str8 up soldiers. MR only means you've ranked up a bunch of stuff.

First, please check what you've typed before you post. It's clearly painful to read.

Second, elitism is an argument brought against us. There's no denial elitism exist, in this post scenario it's not the case. I don't care that you encountered a low level player elitist (MR 18 is low seriously!).

Third, you confirm everything i've been saying so far : MR is not related to skill, it's related to level stuff, as incredible as it can be it means we know something about EFFICIENCY related to farm when we're 27 in a low amount of hours. Our efficient way of leveling stuff under attack is what we're proving to be stupid and selfish right now. We're not fighting "elitism".

Can you please stay on topic instead of derailing completely about a fake argument against ours ? thank you!

[(PSN)NewcastleDisease]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Aldain:

The issue isn't nuke frames, it is that nothing in this game needs or demands anything except more damage, and when damage is so great that it overshadows anything that deals less or no damage (cc frames, support frames, etc.) you wind up with this unequal mess of a system.

really funny is: there are plenty of weapon which deal more damage than a frame does... the frame has a ability which make them unique, which is for a scenario. 

do we have to cut off any weapon too in order to deal not "so much" damage, just because a mr1 player can't do the same amount of damage?

because thats what this whole thread is about:

to cut of Saryn, because some veteran player has builds which outrank newbies. 

that the players have farm and rank and put time in their builds seams to be completly ignored. that you can't build a Saryn (ok, realistic you will never build a all killing saryn, because thats not possible.. you just can build here to kill specific enemies until they reach a limit where they just get damaged but not killed) like you discuss until you reach specific level in the game is also ignored. the amount of time you need for this. so in the end we talking about cutting everything in this game to the lowest level, so every newbie is sadified.

again: what would this game be like, if we just cripple every frame, every weapon and so on? we are playing because frame can do some weird stuff. to push the abilitys, to get the next riven, mod, wepaon, prime, the next new stuff and so on. but not to play on lowest ranks forever just to "balance" something which isn't the problem.

i agree that the damage system is a problem. but not the frames themself. 

Saryn is the only frame which is able to strip down armor from enemies. which damage them so the group can easier kill them. to lost her abilitys will cut a deep wound in warframe which will not be filled. other frame will take the place - but just to really kill everything instead of damaging them. 

we already have a list of frame which was cut because player who don't understand warframe mechanics cry for it. the end was: noone use this frames any more. they are technically destroyed (yeah come on, i know some will say "but they are so much better"... and thats why you don't see ember for example out there like before hm?).

that should teach us:  cripple frames isn't the solution.

 

p.s.: sorry Aldain, nohingt against you, it just fit to your lines 🙂

Edited August 20, 2019 by (PS4)NewcastleDisease
add some...

[Aldain]

6 hours ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

i agree that the damage system is a problem. but not the frames themself.

I can see your side too, and unlike some of the thread I don't want another Ember level nerf (hell I also want Ember stronger again, what they did to her was overkill) and I am glad we can at least agree that the system is the issue.

If the system wasn't so biased towards damage we likely wouldn't be discussing nerfing frames, weapons or anything like that after all.

What I hope is that DE can find some solution to figure this out without needing to buff frames into absurdity or nerf others into obscurity, or without having to just say "No Warframe abilities EVER" with nullifiers and damage caps.

The only thing I don't want to see is the power creep be so strong that it forces the design of new enemies and content to forcefully cut off anything that isn't on the same level as the power creep, I don't want to see another Wolf of Saturn Six issue where some players could kill him in a minute or two while others took 30 minutes to kill him because he was a huge sponge with nothing interesting behind his design.

P.S. Don't worry about it, no offense taken, in fact, you gave me some new thoughts and views on how to word my stance.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

Saryn is just too easy for how effective she is.

There needs to be more of a strain in making the build she effectively has now. 

Give spores duration again.

[selig_fay]

2 часа назад, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru сказал:

Give spores duration again.

What's the point? In response to the fact that nuckers have no place in the game people send us to play solo or in a party. All 50 pages about it.

[Cibyllae]

3 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Saryn is just too easy for how effective she is.

There needs to be more of a strain in making the build she effectively has now. 

Give spores duration again.

This is exactly it, Saryn used to take multiple readings and testings with different weapons in order to be able to use effectively. You could use her with no mods and she would still be able to do what she does.