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MrRixter

Can something be done about Saryn?

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Posted (edited)
Am 16.8.2019 um 17:05 schrieb DatDarkOne:

This isn't quite true.  The below quite is closer to the truth.

Me and various other players have noticed and actually proven that enemy radar does influence mob spawning in survival missions.  DE Glen (I think) tried to say that it wasn't in the coding, but multiple players have proven that the interaction does in fact exists.  

edit:  Granted that it is somewhat hard to test without using a frame like Ivara who can stay invisible for the whole duration of the testing.  

in survival.. one mission type out of many... and sorry to say that but i have played lot of survival and enemies still spawn whereever a player is. may they are not that many but the still spawn. in this mission type you will have no problem to kill enemies, and play in a group even if there is a saryn.

this whole thread is about newbie player who compare their ability and gears to veterans - which will not work, in no game. not abaout balance, not anything else. there is just a guy angry because his kills are not so good. 

and i'm tired of all this "arguments" from people who want "balancing" in a game, where you play infested war gears with magic-like powers...

every frame has his purpose.

before nerfing the next 10 frame (and make them unusable) you should think about buff the already killed-by-nerfing frames.

Edited by (PS4)NewcastleDisease
typo again
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2 hours ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

No one wants an Ember level nerf. They want Nukes to be balanced better for team play. 

Yup. What he said. My poor, poor Ember. 

Can we end this conversation now. Its exhausting. 

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10 часов назад, Aldain сказал:

Blocking frame participation and forcing a specific meta would be just as bad as the Sayrn/Mesa/other nuke frame players in this thread suddenly saying "I don't care if you don't get to participate I have my fun already".

Yes, only problem is that now nuck frames are almost mandatory for effective farm. With a longer accumulation, you also have to be careful, because you can make a very slow accumulation and it will be more effective to kill with your own hands. In fact, slow accumulation can kill the nuckers. Radius is more efficient as you can smooth this out with your mobility. The same situation with Ember was due to the fact that Ember has a weak damage. But I still see Ember on small levels. 260% of the radius is 20 meters of the world on fire and that's enough.

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On 2019-08-16 at 11:10 PM, Sahansral said:

I disagree, this has nothing to do with power disparity between veterans and new players.

Saryn has huge scaling(!) damage potential, a big range, she circumvents armor (which is a big one), she halves enemy HP for the whole team and is also quite tanky.

That alone is way more most damage frames can hope for.

Having played her recently during a Arbitration, I dont really think shes all that. Yes, under the right conditions she can be very strong, but only by keeping the spores in circulation. I dont disagree that shes strong over all, but the same thing can be applied to Equinox and Ember.

Generally I dont play Saryn. I dont feel she needs a massive nerf. I also dont feel line of site would make a huge difference.

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-08-18 at 5:45 PM, zhellon said:

That is, we have two options - we nerf nukers by radius, or we create content in which it is simply impossible for them to participate. By the way, controllers are also a problem of this game. But they all got nerfs in their time. Remember the blinding Mirage and the interceptions. I remember. Titania's lantern still doesn't work properly because of this.

Nerfing radius ! Great a new Ember fan I see. 

"content impossible to participate" that's a good one, you do realize nukers are useless in most of the game right ? it's a very "Defense/Mobile Defense" "problem". Survival you can't find your own stuff anyway, capture/rescue/spy/sabotage/assassination/excavation (well it's i Limbo thing and not a nuker sooo).

Looks to me there's content where nukers don't shine ? Hey let's just focus where it's a problem and call it a day !

On 2019-08-19 at 12:50 AM, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

Debating balancing =/= Ember Nerf

No one wants an Ember level nerf. They want Nukes to be balanced better for team play. 

Please read the previous quote. It's very instructive.

There's no way to "balances" nukers without making them like ember somehow. Like zhellon pointed out very well. Pretending you don't want an ember like nerf is just a way to try to deflect what nerfing nukers provoke.

On 2019-08-19 at 3:46 AM, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

in survival.. one mission type out of many... and sorry to say that but i have played lot of survival and enemies still spawn whereever a player is. may they are not that many but the still spawn. in this mission type you will have no problem to kill enemies, and play in a group even if there is a saryn.

this whole thread is about newbie player who compare their ability and gears to veterans - which will not work, in no game. not abaout balance, not anything else. there is just a guy angry because his kills are not so good. 

and i'm tired of all this "arguments" from people who want "balancing" in a game, where you play infested war gears with magic-like powers...

every frame has his purpose.

before nerfing the next 10 frame (and make them unusable) you should think about buff the already killed-by-nerfing frames.

I'm pretty sure "Balance" doesn't mean changing an easy game in a Skill tester experience.

 

Edited by Letter13
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vor 3 Minuten schrieb AkyFenrir:

I'm pretty sure "Balance" doesn't mean changing an easy game in a Skill tester experience.

i'm pretty sure if all the "nerf frame xy for his/her yx" guy's once sadisfied, noone will play warframe anymore because there is nothing to play.

if all frame are like ember is now, there is nothing funny any more. you would just be pressed in missions where you can't do anything to survive, you will not be able to play high level missions, and can't level your masterrank, because you loose xp while dying. so.. that would be a great game don't you think?

what noone ask for is buffing whats broken. or changing whats not working.

but saryn is working. it's a nice frame for some missions.

balancing do not mean to cut everything around the lowest possible edge. it means to level anything in an environment to a certain point where it get the best out of it.

nerfing saryn to an ember like experience isn'T balancing - it's cutting it off.

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2 минуты назад, AkyFenrir сказал:

capture/rescue/spy/sabotage/assassination/excavation

excavation - yes. assassination - yes. And that depends on what you mean. Arbitrage? Eidolon hunt? excavation on arbitrations may not be the most effective farm and then we will stand defense with the nukers. (They said that they would balance the time of receiving awards.) Hunting - we have volt, who is also a Nuker. For the rest of the assassination, you can walk on anything.

The rest of the missions can be completed by the operator. And usually these missions do not exceed 3-5 minutes, you just ignore the mobs. If we were limited in the style of "kill mobs to open the door further," you do know what that means.

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Saryn's kit struggles when there aren't enough enemies around. And when there are enough of them around, other frames have a hard time being relevant.

Depending on mission type she's very hit and miss with the "bonus" of destroying fun for other players.

I propose streamlining her by requiring LOS for spore spreading and but also making the damage decay much more forgiving.  So she should feel more consistent over different mission types and other team members can contribute because then Saryn won't  be able to melt the entire map.

And yes, after Saryn Equinox is next. Maim is stupidly powerful (and boring).

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

i'm pretty sure if all the "nerf frame xy for his/her yx" guy's once sadisfied, noone will play warframe anymore because there is nothing to play.

That one is huge. But the most incredible thing is how biased and hypocrite these complainers are. I've literally heard people discussing Saryn because she made their meme strike less efficient. Hence these people want to nerf her in order to abuse their maiming strike and raise their combo counter (which is harder with Saryn). That's disgusting/ They are even worse than newbie meta-unaware players, who seems to be astounded by nukers efficiency.

Also, I've tried to study arguments used by many: they appear to be totally groundless. Once I've spoke to a player who has been complaining that Saryn is 1-button frame with no flaws.

After asking him how does he survives and supply energy, we came up to this: He has a good melee, arcane energize and he's actively playing avoiding to get shot/permanently using melee to heal himself and moving around to find energy. Not to mention stacks management. Not to mention, his build is half-surviability, that means he's not a superb nuker. And he's unthoroughly calling this 1-button gameplay! That does not make any sense as much as people who are complaining about nuke frame being good at nuking. This is patently stupid. I have pity for these people.

Edited by TeaHawk
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7 hours ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

Debating balancing =/= Ember Nerf

No one wants an Ember level nerf. They want Nukes to be balanced better for team play. 

That's interesting, considering this is the exact argument with the exact positions being held by even some of the exact participants that led to her being deep sixed in the first place.  You guys want to bury your heads in the sand?  So be it.

 

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As someone who used to be new, that NEVER stopped me from moving around, collecting resources and MODS, and killing any survivors. I was being an Excalibur with NO MODS equipped. Yet I did better and survived longer than most MR20s. 

A Saryn that is killing hordes “easily” should be a big motivator for you considering that you still gain a lot of affinity(xp). Faster than you would killing one guy at a time. You get missions completed quickly which makes it faster to farm resources. And you can’t expect everybody to stop just because you’re new. 

So to quote every troll in every post about problems with other players, “play solo” if “fun” is all that matters to you. I’ve encountered this same type of post about Sanctuary Onslaught which the object is to “kill every enemy you encounter. Do not relent”. So Saryns and Equinoxes are gonna be the go to frames for killing hordes. Especially to gain a lot of affinity. 

Like every other noob or newbie, you’re gonna realize how useful these warframes are and soon, if you don’t rage quit the game, everybody will be complaining about you too. 

I have a Rhino build that allows me to triple all damage including from abilities for all nearby players when activated. So a few buddies of mine would destroy high level maps and rack up thousands upon thousands of affinity. BUT... most noobs or newbies would ask them what their Saryn or Equinox builds and calling them OP while completely ignoring the rhino that is tripling their damage. 

Saryn is good for killing hordes, especially grineer. While frames like my rhino is good for teamwork and killing super tough enemies that a Saryn couldn’t kill. The first ability of Saryn takes a little bit of time to build up which is what usually does most of the damage. Saryn cannot kill the Stalker nor bosses with her abilities the same way a rhino or chroma could. 

It is like I’m the only one who saw an “OP” frame and thought, “can’t wait get one of those”. Play solo if playing with other players who like to get things done quickly is that big of a problem. Cause trust me, there are way more of them than there are of people like you.  

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

No one wants an Ember level nerf. 

Let's see, DE is very busy creating new content to calm the crying babies of the forum (just like this topic), what will happen?

a) They will stop everything they are doing, set up a meeting and discuss ways to "balance" the nukers.

b) They will simply destroy the skill and put something close to ridiculous to quiet the kids, just as they did with Banshee and Ember.

Edited by Peter

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-08-02 at 4:13 PM, MrRixter said:

I'm a fairly new player and today I got matched with a Saryn at my sortie. It was the first time that I felt bored in the game. There was nothing for me to do, everything was dying instantly all over the map so I just went afk and made a cup of tea. Whats the point of me trying to improve my frames and get all the mods, arcanes etc, when a frame exists which can nuke the whole map with no effort at all? I apologise if I'm wrong but from what I saw was a Saryn barely even moving.

I feel quite deflated right now and confused on how something so broken is allowed to exist in the game. Bare in my mind I'm quite new so I'm not aware if there are other broken frames, its just this Saryn was the first one I saw.

@MrRixter Take away any ability alteration mod from its build, and I can guarantee you that they won't bore you ever again... But then again, someone told you to join a Clan and play with fellow clan members instead of Public missions... and I have to agree. If you want multiplayer done properly, that's one way to go.

The other way to avoid getting bored is to do it like me... Solo it.

Edited by Uhkretor

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9 minutes ago, TeaHawk said:

What exactly do you call an insult? Just for the record.
And then, I want to hear your opinion. What do you personally think was the reason behind Ember nerf?

This seems to have been editied while I was working on my previous reply. 

I have casually admitted that I wasn't around during the Ember nerf. I have heard it explained several different ways. The most common and least complicated being that she was too good at killing. 

I can't correctly comment on most of it, but I don't think nerfing her (or any other nuke into the ground) is/was a good solution. There are definite balance issues, but they aren't that easy to solve. 

I have played with a few Nuke Frames, namely Equinox and just recently picked up Saryn for mastery. Even with a poorly modded and sloppily played Saryn, I was wiping out enemies like they were nothing. Doesn't that strike you as a little odd? 

Nerfing Saryn into the ground definitely isn't a proper solution, but I do think something has to be done. I really dislike being with Saryns. It doesn't leave much to do. Sure, I could cast abilotoes anyway, run frantically looking for any enemy to kill, but by the time I have found them, they're killed before I can fire a shot. 

This definitely comes across as a problem to me, and it certainly is at least worth DE looking over, is it not? 

I know I don't want her nerfed into the ground. All I think is needed is a few tweaks to make her more cooperative. Make her thin the herd of enemies rather than wipe them out. Make her limited by some factor other Frames might be. Make her have to build up more, something. 

It's at least worth a look.

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il y a 4 minutes, Sea_Blue_Stars a dit :

This seems to have been editied while I was working on my previous reply. 

I have casually admitted that I wasn't around during the Ember nerf. I have heard it explained several different ways. The most common and least complicated being* that she was too good at killing. 

I can't correctly comment on most of it, but I don't think nerfing her (or any other nuke into the ground) is/was a good solution. There are definite balance issues, but they aren't that easy to solve. 

I have played with a few Nuke Frames, namely Equinox and just recently picked up Saryn for mastery. Even with a poorly modded and sloppily played Saryn, I was wiping out enemies like they were nothing. Doesn't that strike you as a little odd? 

Nerfing Saryn into the ground definitely isn't a proper solution, but I do think something has to be done. I really dislike being with Saryns. It doesn't leave much to do. Sure, I could cast abilotoes anyway, run frantically looking for any enemy to kill, but by the time I have found them, they're killed before I can fire a shot. 

This definitely comes across as a problem to me, and it certainly is at least worth DE looking over, is it not? 

I know I don't want her nerfed into the ground. All I think is needed is a few tweaks to make her more cooperative. Make her thin the herd of enemies rather than wipe them out. Make her limited by some factor other Frames might be. Make her have to build up more, something. 

It's at least worth a look.

*You missed the right opportunity to add "people complained" right there.

Ember is "more cooperative" now. Claiming it's possible to tweak nukers in order for them to stop being nukers (let's be honest that's what it's all about) won't change a thing.

Funny no matter how many times we keep saying it, that a nerf would basically need to be into the ground, you keep dodging it by "well i don't want that".

I've stated a few pages ago a constructive post about this as well, funny that someone who likes to respond to everything dodged those 2 :)

Nothing is worth delaying empyrean, and nukers nerf is not something worth looking for anyway. (Can say obvious statements too! i know you will comment about it, i don't care)

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

he most common and least complicated being that she was too good at killing. 

This is unconsistent. She actually was good at killing... <40 levels on low-level runs for relics. That's it. She already suffered a lot of nerfs at the time. People generally complained about Ember AFK nuking everything. Everything below mid-levels in specific missions. But she was (and she remains) patently useless anywhere else.

36 minutes ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

Doesn't that strike you as a little odd? 

No, it does not. Firstly, Saryn is pure nuke, meanwhile Equinox is rahter mid-support. Then, what missions have you played? What levels? Is nuking necessary on every type of missions? Please mind to consider these questions first. I have a long post about how Saryn is designed for specific tasks. I may search for it if you need.

36 minutes ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

I really dislike being with Saryns.

Then you will dislike being with staticor-mirage, blast-gara, meme-strikers and many others. I mean... People are always looking for meta. You nerf one thing — people use another. Maybe it's time to focus more on your personal gameplay quality of life? Playing in squad... Using recruting chat... Avoiding saryn if you don't like to have it in your team....
We may not like something. But have you ever heard of tolerance?
 

 

36 minutes ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

This definitely comes across as a problem to me, and it certainly is at least worth DE looking over, is it not? 

This frame works. You can't deny this. At the very same time there are dozens of forgotten content nobody uses. Vauban, Ember... Maybe DE should fix what is broken first, huh?
 

 

36 minutes ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

Make her thin the herd of enemies

Making her patently useless. You basically want remove nuke from a nuke frame. Does it make a little sense to you? It's like removing healing from healer.


I think the huge problem today is that Saryn is overhyped —> a lot of new players build her —> a lot of Saryns everywhere even if mission type does not require it.

Edited by TeaHawk

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, TeaHawk said:

Making her patently useless. You basically want remove nuke from a nuke frame. Does it make a little sense to you? It's like removing healing from healer.

Many, Many, MANY pages ago I suggested something similar where Miasma would act like False Swipe in Pokémon. That is, bring down the HP to a point where a stern look can kill the target. This way, Saryn continues to be a nuke whilst giving the opportunity for kills open to her teammates. It was not well received. Something simpler was suggested that seems like a simple fix as well: instead of Spores affecting Miasma with 4x damage, something like 2x damage. Or no multiplier.

I play Saryn a lot, almost exclusively. Neither of these things would destroy her. They could also help people feel less like they are not contributing.

Honestly I think that once most people get access to her they realize that she is an indispensable tool like Trinity. DPS frames need to exist. She is very good at what she does. Wouldn't it make more sense and feel better to all involved to 'lift the whole', as Steve is fond of saying?

Edited by (NSW)Badger

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, (NSW)Badger said:

That is, bring down the HP to a point where a stern look can kill the target. This way, Saryn continues to be a nuke whilst giving the opportunity for kills open to her teammates.

She's not a nuke by definition after this. She becomes a simple de-buffer. And a bad one, as she's likely getting killed by nearest enemy she encounters. That was a terrible idea. The whole concept of this frame is being able to kill fast in the most efficient way all the enemies you won't even see. It's good for defense, extermination and of course SO/ESO. Your idea shows that you clearly don't even understand Saryn's role in this game.

20 minutes ago, (NSW)Badger said:

instead of Spores affecting Miasma with 4x damage, something like 2x damage. Or no multiplier.

I really doubt you have an idea how it will affect gameplay in different scenarios. I'd like to understand, what levels are you talking about? What kind of missions you're focusing on?

20 minutes ago, (NSW)Badger said:

Neither of these things would destroy her.

If you really think that your first concept would not destroy her, you're far from meta-awareness. It's not bad as a whole, but try other frames, different builds for different mission types. You'll see how the game changes.

20 minutes ago, (NSW)Badger said:

Honestly I think that once most people get access to her they realize that she is an indispensable tool like Trinity.

Indeed. However she's not a universal tool. She's not bringing anything useful to a whole bunch of missions there being nuke is useless: defection, excavation, capture, rescue, assasination, disruption, interception, surviva, etc. You always have a better choice. Remember: killing huge crowds is not always useful. Sometimes it's even harmful. Note:

Trinity is only required on Eidolon hunts as a lure-babysitter.

Saryn is only required on SO/ESO for easy focus farm. And thanks God we have Saryn. Try farming 4000000 focus/rank up your gear over 9000 times. You'll praise Saryn.

(to note you can still go on SO/ESO as volt/gara/memestriker/staticormirage/mesa(exclusively on ESO) and it will be slower but fine too)

20 minutes ago, (NSW)Badger said:

She is very good at what she does.

Indeed. And there are reasons she's good. Once you change a tiny parameter you have no idea what to expect. A smallest change may ruin a good frame. Meanwhile we clearly have god-forsaken and long-forgotten content that needs to be reworked. Why prioritizing questionable tweaks what more than half of players don't even want, when you already have a bunch of work to do. There's almost everybody asking for Ember rework for almost a year. But nothing is done. Same with Vauban. A lot of other frames have huge problems and useless abilities (Ballistic battery, choma's firebreath and skin flying... thing etc.)

Here you want DE to start tweaking something that is good at the moment as it is. Maybe not perfect to your eyes. But at least it's synergized well. It works. There so much content that's literally abandoned by DE and everybody are asking to fix. And you're risking to make another boroken frame and make matters even worse. I don't understand this. I simply hate this ideology, because it's stealing attention from real problems. Instead of making real changes (Elemental damage rework) we waste time at tweaking things over and over again.... That's sad. I hope you'll think of that.

Edited by TeaHawk
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2 minutes ago, TeaHawk said:

If you really think that your first concept would not destroy her, you're far from meta-awareness. It's not bad as a whole, but try other frames, different builds for different mission types. You'll see how the game changes.

You... Do know there's more to the game than the meta, right? 

Not everyone cares about the Meta. I personally find it fun-sapping and dull. Making OP Meta Builds is just boring. 

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the Meta is part of this issue. 

No one has to abide by the meta. No one is required to follow it.

You can't act like meta is the only thing that matters, because it really isn't. 

But take that as you will, I suppose. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

You... Do know there's more to the game than the meta, right?

I'm not even using meta. I have my weird arsenal. What if I say that viper is my favorite secondary after the... lato?

I have no problems dealing damage and enjoying the game even with Saryn in my team. Not to mention that I'm outperforming her on several occasions.
The only reason I speak about meta is to make you understand that this whole game is a freaking farming simulator. People who have played it a lot naturally want farming be faster. As a noob you are enjoying every shot. As a veteran you're maybe still enjoying combat, but once you need to farm — you take your best gear and farm.
You can't fight meta in a grindy looter-shooter. This is simply pointless.
 

Edited by TeaHawk
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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, TeaHawk said:

I'm not even using meta. I have my weird arsenal. What if I say that viper is my favorite secondary after the... lato?

I have no problems dealing damage and enjoying the game even with Saryn in my team. Not to mention that I'm outperforming her on several occasions.
The only reason I speak about meta is to make you understand that this whole game is a freaking farming simulator. People who have played it a lot naturally wants farming be faster. As a noob you are enjoying every shot. As a veteran you're maybe still enjoying combat, but once you need to farm — you take your best gear and farm.
You can't fight meta in a grindy loot-shooter. This is simply pointless.

 

this.

saryn has one place realistically, and it's eso, and  if it's not her, it's the next most busted meta thing that gives the newbies something to cry about.

go up your arsenal folks.

people always crying about saryn, not remembering volt is a better frame overall... derp.

Edited by Klokwerkaos
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3 minutes ago, TeaHawk said:

I'm not even using meta. I have my weird arsenal. What if I say that viper is my favorite secondary after the... lato?

I have no problems dealing damage and enjoying the game even with Saryn in my team. Not to mention that I'm outperforming her on several occasions.
The only reason I speak about meta is to make you understand that this whole game is a freaking farming simulator. People who have played it a lot naturally want farming be faster. As a noob you are enjoying every shot. As a veteran you're maybe still enjoying combat, but once you need to farm — you take your best gear and farm.
You can't fight meta in a grindy looter-shooter. This is simply pointless.
 

Personally, I enjoy taking a while to farm. It gives me something to do while my new MR fodder or cool new Warframe builds. You don't realize how much you can get sometimes when you just dont focus on the farming itself.

And by the time the new thing is done, I have something else ready to build, and I can take shiny new thing out to level while I do it all again. 

Farming is only boring if you make it so. It really doesn't have to be. 

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To answer the question for the nerf of Ember. Last I checked DE specifically said that it was to make players move more. A lot of players would “press 4 and forget”. So by making her ability reduce in range and burn up more energy, player would be more inclined to move more or run out of energy and move around to gather energy orbs to recast. 

That’s why I suggested that maybe her 4th ability would be based on movement to determine how far her range would go. So let’s start off with the basic 100% range. If she stands perfectly still her range gets reduced to like 25-50%. If she walks her range is 50-75%. If she sprints then it would be 100%. While sliding it would increase to 125%. And the “science” of it would be based on the friction she generates while moving. 

But right now she is completely useless in the plains. And it did not solve the problem with low level missions, which is where most of the complaints were about. “This ember is taking all the kills, waaaaah”. 

Me personally when an ember killed a bunch of guys I was just glad she cleared the way for me. And now I have all frames and every one of them has a team build. One being ember giving teammates a fire buff. Made a post about how much I hated how useless a lot of augments were including Fireball Frenzy. And suggested that she could detonate it nearby herself or something to give herself a buff too then the augment would be worth it. So I’m very glad DE is gonna make that augment and other like it be able to be applied to her as well. 

Banshee was an issue as well because players would just stand in the middle of the map like Hydron and activate 4 and never let go. Some even complained how they didn’t get affinity because the AFK system kicked in since they never moved for over a minute. So DE made her augment to make players using banshee to move more. 

The main reason I aimed for high range was for big maps where enemies were very spread out. I even used Ember for the PoE. But now she is useless in the Plains since her range cannot reach them and to make her range be able to reach them requires weakening the power strength more to where it does less damage. 

So now ember is used way less often than before. It’s actually quite rare for me to find one Ember. Sad. Which is why I hate nerfs because all the people complaining are noobs/newbies. So what? So DE should take away all our mods too since ALL newbies don’t have the mods we have? 

And whose fault is it that people are wanting to use such killframes for resources and affinity? Maybe if DE didn’t make us spend hours to farm for resources to progress a few inches, people wouldn’t be so desperate to have builds that allows them to get the job done quickly. 

But it is what it is. 🤷🏻‍♂️

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22 hours ago, Test-995 said:

If people are dying with tanky frames like saryn or atlas, i suppose they gonna die much more with anything else unless they are using oberon/wisp/trinity, problem is that they don't have healing, we can easily fix it by slapping life strike or anything like that.

And if they don't need to kill enemies, they are more coop friendly than those "using enemy as a resource" things, simply because they can work no matter how enemies doing.

Since volt isn't a problem for saryn (and saryn is helpful for volt aside capacitance), nuke frames won't always end up conflicting, maybe harrow, nidus, capacitance volt, everything with rage/adrenaline could have a problem because all of those need enemies to work.

Rubico prime isn't a good weapon for mass killing.

Well saryn CAN have a problem with equinox, but it's not too much, and for equinox saryn can be actually helpful, her armor stripping greatly increase equinox's damaging potential, while also her spore allows equinox to stacking up damages faster.

Maybe you are right then.

Well, we're talking about a scenario where neither frames are using their abilities, to extend their longevity; in the end the only frames who could possibly do something like that would Inaros or Nidus, largely due to their massive health pools and Nidus's innate healing.

Again, they don't need to kill them, but their abilities are so strong, that they eventually end killing enemies. I believe if their nuke abilities had reasonable limitations, then these nukers wouldn't be as big of a problem as they are now.

The point at which Saryn really begins to help Volt out by stripping armor is usually when both of them start running into trouble. The could work together if we had mission modes that quickly scaled into that range (yes, I know, Arbitrations, but the drawn out reward cycles and nullifier drone spam becomes unbearable after a short while). Although I can't imagine the levels of salt those missions would promptly generate when a particular meta formed.

Well, you did say any frame and good weapon. Admittedly, picking Rubico Prime was indeed malicious, however, your statement was fairly broad; I've could've picked a melee weapon like Rakta dark dagger since that also falls into the category of a "good weapon". In fact, paired with Ash, Covert Lethality and Fatal Teleport, it can be down right godly, in terms of single target damage. But I digress.

Well, I'm glad we could reach an agreement on atleast one thing, today.

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il y a 6 minutes, Sea_Blue_Stars a dit :

Personally, I enjoy taking a while to farm. It gives me something to do while my new MR fodder or cool new Warframe builds. You don't realize how much you can get sometimes when you just dont focus on the farming itself.

And by the time the new thing is done, I have something else ready to build, and I can take shiny new thing out to level while I do it all again. 

Farming is only boring if you make it so. It really doesn't have to be. 

We're done with MR fodders, max MR so far. Only things left are riven and farming platinum. I don't want my platinum farm to get longer.

By the way when someone tells you "I'm not playing meta", it means they don't value pure efficiency.

I'm a Titania main myself, one of the 5most underplayed warframes in the game. I don't like to bulletjump all the time and  i don't have to with Titania.

The entire game doesn't take part in DEFENSE MISSIONS! 

Forcing other players to play the game the way YOU enjoy is extremely selfish.

I'll keep defending nukers against selfish people like you. It's not really hard, only thing you have is "i like my playstyle, your playstyle annoys me  so i've to ruin yours." Doing exactly what you're complaining about Saryn. 

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