Jump to content
MrRixter

Can something be done about Saryn?

Recommended Posts

il y a 3 minutes, (PS4)The1stAzrael a dit :

When engaging a group of individuals in a debate, it's highly advisable to provide a basis for your counter arguments. Saying that you don't need to explain why you think the other side is wrong, but they should provide a highly detailed, peer reviewed research paper on why they think xyz is bad, complete with pie-charts, raw numbers, and varying percentages based on the cultural, geographical, and the socio-economic differences between the demographics they interviewed, paints the mental picture of a highly arrogant, churlish, imp who believes he wins any argument, simply by saying "no, you're wrong"; regardless of the magnitude of evidence contradicting him.

This evidenced by the number of posts where you have mostly been parroting other peoples arguments and adding "yes, this!" or some ad hominem attack.

Which leads me to believe, that arguing with you, is a tremendous waste of my time.

Let's recapitulate arguments here :

"First time meeting a Saryn, can't play bouh nerf plz" (In a sortie by the way, who wants to waste time on sorties seriously)

"I can't enjoy the game so Saryn players should get their fun removed so I can have fun myself."

"Nukers are a problem because they're destroying balance in the game". Except they speak of balance in ESO and in very few Defense mission. There's no saryn anywhere else.

"I want this game to be a completely different game". Well there's other games out there.

"When you get saryn you don't need anything else"! Sure go do spy missions and come back if you dare. Or any mission not being ESO, Defense, Mobile Defense. There's a lot of choice.

Those are the 4 arguments everyone keep parroting against saryn! There's litteraly nothing of value."

"It's possible to nerf Saryn range/number ennemies affected/forcing LOS" Usually you'll get a "Don't want to make the same as Ember". Well that's how to get an Ember like nerf 101 right there

Pointing out those are so obvious bad arguments is sadly needed. 

Arguing with anyone repeating one of those 5 arguments is a tremendous waste of time. If we don't you'll ruin a good warframe. Sad reality hu?

  • Like 2
  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, AkyFenrir said:

Let's recapitulate arguments here :

"First time meeting a Saryn, can't play bouh nerf plz" (In a sortie by the way, who wants to waste time on sorties seriously)

"I can't enjoy the game so Saryn players should get their fun removed so I can have fun myself."

"Nukers are a problem because they're destroying balance in the game". Except they speak of balance in ESO and in very few Defense mission. There's no saryn anywhere else.

"I want this game to be a completely different game". Well there's other games out there.

"When you get saryn you don't need anything else"! Sure go do spy missions and come back if you dare. Or any mission not being ESO, Defense, Mobile Defense. There's a lot of choice.

Those are the 4 arguments everyone keep parroting against saryn! There's litteraly nothing of value."

"It's possible to nerf Saryn range/number ennemies affected/forcing LOS" Usually you'll get a "Don't want to make the same as Ember". Well that's how to get an Ember like nerf 101 right there

Pointing out those are so obvious bad arguments is sadly needed. 

Arguing with anyone repeating one of those 5 arguments is a tremendous waste of time. If we don't you'll ruin a good warframe. Sad reality hu?

While those kinds of criticisms are rampant on this thread, they do not make up the entirety of this discussion. People like zhellon, Cubewano, and myself have provided fairly well rounded responses, while the opposition has also produced a number of formidable sparring partners.

The individual whom my response is directed at clearly has no intention of providing anything other than comedic relief. He believes he shouldn't have to reiterate or repeat his previous defense, for no given reason. If he'd simply restated his points and arguments there would have been something for me to work with, and we'd be able to go forward from there. Instead, he wants others to dig through the dozens of replies, in order to begin the process of debating his arguments and points.

I also find it amusing he mocks me as if eloquent speakers are nothing more than mythical creatures on the Internet...

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Test-995 said:

I think i meant to say all of them can survive without nuking/damaging enemy unlike frames like harrow, but nidus works.

Nuking being too strong and solo oriented abilities being solo oriented is different matter i guess.

So i say problems in enemies too, since they start to be actually helpful at little higher level, that those enemies are too weak to stand against our abilities/weapons, warframe being semi-afk fest by massive AoE could also counts as problem but i like ez game like that, not only when using them but also having them in party.

Oh sorry, please replace the word "any good weapon" with "any good mass killing weapon".

 

Our enemies being vastly underpowered is where the heart of the issue lies.

As long as they remain in their current state, we will continue to encounter this problem. I believe already addressed this fact, in one of my older posts. However, I also touched upon the unlikely hood of this issue being acknowledged by DE and properly dealt with.

Nerfing Saryn temporarily solves a portion of the problem, but this horrendous damage system shall continue to generate problems, until DE is forced to take a look at it. Which isn't going to happen, anytime in the near future.

I find Lenz to be an excellent mass killer, however, due to the restrictions placed upon it, you probably won't be able to nuke things at the same level of Saryn (I am excluding rivens in this estimation, due to how problematic they are).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Silly question. If you kill X so many to times ingame Y assassin usually comes after you (wouldnt this mean nukeframes are frequently targetted?). Havent read whole thread but why dont devs make special assassins pop up when there is a mass death/nuke attempt of X caused by Y ability, which are awkward for the WF using that ability to deal with.Might make certain WF using certain abilities second thoughts on using.wouldnt be a nerf. But side effect of using it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-08-02 at 10:13 AM, MrRixter said:

I'm a fairly new player and today I got matched with a Saryn at my sortie. It was the first time that I felt bored in the game. There was nothing for me to do, everything was dying instantly all over the map so I just went afk and made a cup of tea. Whats the point of me trying to improve my frames and get all the mods, arcanes etc, when a frame exists which can nuke the whole map with no effort at all? I apologise if I'm wrong but from what I saw was a Saryn barely even moving.

I feel quite deflated right now and confused on how something so broken is allowed to exist in the game. Bare in my mind I'm quite new so I'm not aware if there are other broken frames, its just this Saryn was the first one I saw.

Saryn was remade this way fir the older players who like to do high end game content. 4 hrs in Mot or wave 20 ESO. Yes even lvel 100 Sortie enemies. Armor scaling is outrageous in this game and we were given a blessing with this Saryn. Because she can scale infinitely to get the kills per second needed to run end game missions like Mot survival,ESO,Arbitrations. You're new I get it,but at the same time so much of the new content,updates,and other features have been new player oriented. This Saryn rework is targeted for us end game players cause they haven't given us anything in a very long time. Don't take that away from us. Don't be that guy.

  • Applause 2
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-08-13 at 4:39 AM, xV3NOMx said:

I disagree.

All players have their own preferences and play style, and use different warframes, weapons, companions and sentinels that they enjoy.

[ It is selfish for wanting to nerf anything, when other Players enjoy using them. ] 

 

*If you have a problem with other Players using Saryn, play the game on "Solo" mode or create your own squad.

I mean there is no reason to play other frames

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

This is all literally toxic and elitist. 

Seriously dude, just give it up. The only person you're making look bad is yourself.

The plane argument has no place here, because MR only equates to how much stuff you have. Not experience. 

But again, go off I guess. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

TelitistTrue. I joined my 1s1st clan at MR9. 1s1st time ever running with my new brethren. We had an elitist 18. Who i spent most of the 20 waves reviving because he was hot garbage. Tried to tell me i should know my place Rooky. He challenged me to a dual. I had a Val Kitty. Prime. He brought Nidus. Stupidly I might adf. I modded viral killed him w times in best of 3. He didnt score once. He got so pissed of that he quit the clan. Ive ran into random Mr 27 that were crat anf teens and younger thar were str8 up soldiers. MR only means you've ranked up a bunch of stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, project_eulogy said:

Yes, Saryn is pretty powerful. But you asking for nerfs will end her up in the Ember pile. Useless at higher difficulties. You may as well remove Rhino's Iron Skin while you're at it too. Cuz its OP. Especially in the Ambulas fight and they drop the Ion Cannon on you right after you Iron Skin. RIP their damage.

To immediately alleviate your problem:

-Get an organized group.
-Don't use randoms
-If you use randoms and get a Saryn, Leave the Mission

Currently as it is, there is no true endgame content. What? Eidolons? thats a joke. Leveling up stuff in Hydron? Not anywhere near end game. I can solo every single mission regardless of the difficulty with a Rad Ivara or Irrad Loki. Or i can go the fun route with Trinity P or Nekros and start throwing out Specters and raise an army all while being utterly invincible in Arbitration indefinitely(its actually pretty hilarious to have all 4 people drop the max amount of specters and huddle under a bubble).

Tbh, I just made myself a goal to "Collect all the things". Basically, Waframe is now Pokeframe for me as content is either easy or too stupid hard to solo depending on equipment. MR means nothing except max daily rep/void traces, which i like. So max out your MR, do the thing and just move on to the next game. Since you're new, enjoy the free affinity? Leveling non-dps frames, having a Saryn in your group is an absolute godsend because the massive DPS means youre going to level faster.

Preach

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

Nerfing Saryn temporarily solves a portion of the problem, but this horrendous damage system shall continue to generate problems, until DE is forced to take a look at it. Which isn't going to happen, anytime in the near future.

This I can agree on, there is some faint hope of changes coming with Empyrean according to a tweet from Steve iirc, but I'm not holding my breath.

The issue isn't nuke frames, it is that nothing in this game needs or demands anything except more damage, and when damage is so great that it overshadows anything that deals less or no damage (cc frames, support frames, etc.) you wind up with this unequal mess of a system.

There are people who are saying "just buff other frames" but how would anyone do that? How would anyone buff Excalibur up to Sayrn's or Mesa's level for example, or how would Vauban be able to compete with CC when others can kill enemies so fast with weapons and abilities which makes CC useless.

The issue is in structure, both of the damage system being clunky and enemies being either cannon fodder or number sponges, frames that can exploit the damage system stand far above others in terms of "efficiency", which isn't really an issue in most mission types, but then again, most mission types are a mess and don't even need player interaction most of the time so other frames don't get a time to shine (other than Spy missions for Loki and Ivara for example).

I'm actually hopeful for Empyrean for this reason, because the design doesn't cater to one type of frame (from what we've seen) but also needs players to cooperate (what a concept for a co-op game) in ways that aren't just "Stack damage on the nuke frame" or "Feed energy to the Frost so he can bubble every 4 seconds".

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A Saryn will do that kind of stuff if you are new. Once you get further you will get to do things and even outdps the Saryn in most scenarios. I mean... I was in an instance earlier with low MR players as Garuda. I did 98% of damage with my ranged melee while they kept on dying. Warframe is just that kind of game once you get further.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I sorta miss Saryn doing Toxic damage, if they can make it spread stronger and stronger toxic damage sorta like she did before, will add back in the synergy from her 3 and keep with her theme. only thing needed to to make it less tricky to boost the damage. You can even keep the stack system but with toxic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-08-18 at 2:13 PM, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

By sitting down and playing thumb twiddling simulator? Even when enemies are CC'd or otherwise unresponsive you still get to actually play the game you signed up for.

And not everyone signed up to play "shoot brain dead AI simulator". An AI whose patterns one generally knows after the first few weeks of playing. Then it's just a matter of tanking the damage / killing them faster than they can even deal damage. Thereafter they play warframe for other content. Thus they rather kill fodder enemies in Hydron fast so they can get their freshly forma'ed gear back to 30, and go back to their scheduled 3x3 tridolon hunting on PoE or Orb Mother slaying. Different people signed up for different things. Not everyone is a Hydron main like some of you. And in ESO, Simaris' dialogue literally says "do not relent" "kill faster", implying what DE was thinking when they built that game mode, but meanwhile forum mains are like, "no, must nerf all of us so we kill slower" :clem:

 

But other people's wants or ideas for the game don't matter right? Only forum mains matter.

I myself am not a routine tridolon hunter but I can understand very much why some people choose to use nukers and want to do things fast. And yes, when I really want to go slow, I play solo, I don't go into public games and do passive aggressive things like AFK and watch the nuker, or create host migrations when I see some nuker that I think will disrupt my desire to go slow. That's the nature of public game, you live with whoever and whatever RNG gives you. Can't accept? Don't want to accommodate? Go solo. This is not a troll suggestion to be honest, this is very much just being courteous to other players - i.e. accepting both fast AND slow methods, i.e. variety and diversity. Not just demanding only slow methods allowed (i.e killing diversity and creating homogeneity) , which is what most people on the "nerf the things" camp are calling for. One side is very much advocating for restricting and limiting player options - the nerf side, and yet they somehow are completely oblivious to their unfriendly approach towards others. 

  • Like 4
  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Il y a 9 heures, (XB1)Skylar McCloud a dit :

TelitistTrue. I joined my 1s1st clan at MR9. 1s1st time ever running with my new brethren. We had an elitist 18. Who i spent most of the 20 waves reviving because he was hot garbage. Tried to tell me i should know my place Rooky. He challenged me to a dual. I had a Val Kitty. Prime. He brought Nidus. Stupidly I might adf. I modded viral killed him w times in best of 3. He didnt score once. He got so pissed of that he quit the clan. Ive ran into random Mr 27 that were crat anf teens and younger thar were str8 up soldiers. MR only means you've ranked up a bunch of stuff.

First, please check what you've typed before you post. It's clearly painful to read.

Second, elitism is an argument brought against us. There's no denial elitism exist, in this post scenario it's not the case. I don't care that you encountered a low level player elitist (MR 18 is low seriously!).

Third, you confirm everything i've been saying so far : MR is not related to skill, it's related to level stuff, as incredible as it can be it means we know something about EFFICIENCY related to farm when we're 27 in a low amount of hours. Our efficient way of leveling stuff under attack is what we're proving to be stupid and selfish right now. We're not fighting "elitism".

Can you please stay on topic instead of derailing completely about a fake argument against ours ? thank you!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
vor 7 Stunden schrieb Aldain:

The issue isn't nuke frames, it is that nothing in this game needs or demands anything except more damage, and when damage is so great that it overshadows anything that deals less or no damage (cc frames, support frames, etc.) you wind up with this unequal mess of a system.

really funny is: there are plenty of weapon which deal more damage than a frame does... the frame has a ability which make them unique, which is for a scenario. 

do we have to cut off any weapon too in order to deal not "so much" damage, just because a mr1 player can't do the same amount of damage?

because thats what this whole thread is about:

to cut of Saryn, because some veteran player has builds which outrank newbies. 

that the players have farm and rank and put time in their builds seams to be completly ignored. that you can't build a Saryn (ok, realistic you will never build a all killing saryn, because thats not possible.. you just can build here to kill specific enemies until they reach a limit where they just get damaged but not killed) like you discuss until you reach specific level in the game is also ignored. the amount of time you need for this. so in the end we talking about cutting everything in this game to the lowest level, so every newbie is sadified.

again: what would this game be like, if we just cripple every frame, every weapon and so on? we are playing because frame can do some weird stuff. to push the abilitys, to get the next riven, mod, wepaon, prime, the next new stuff and so on. but not to play on lowest ranks forever just to "balance" something which isn't the problem.

i agree that the damage system is a problem. but not the frames themself. 

Saryn is the only frame which is able to strip down armor from enemies. which damage them so the group can easier kill them. to lost her abilitys will cut a deep wound in warframe which will not be filled. other frame will take the place - but just to really kill everything instead of damaging them. 

we already have a list of frame which was cut because player who don't understand warframe mechanics cry for it. the end was: noone use this frames any more. they are technically destroyed (yeah come on, i know some will say "but they are so much better"... and thats why you don't see ember for example out there like before hm?).

that should teach us:  cripple frames isn't the solution.

 

p.s.: sorry Aldain, nohingt against you, it just fit to your lines 🙂

Edited by (PS4)NewcastleDisease
add some...
  • Satisfied 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

i agree that the damage system is a problem. but not the frames themself.

I can see your side too, and unlike some of the thread I don't want another Ember level nerf (hell I also want Ember stronger again, what they did to her was overkill) and I am glad we can at least agree that the system is the issue.

If the system wasn't so biased towards damage we likely wouldn't be discussing nerfing frames, weapons or anything like that after all.

What I hope is that DE can find some solution to figure this out without needing to buff frames into absurdity or nerf others into obscurity, or without having to just say "No Warframe abilities EVER" with nullifiers and damage caps.

The only thing I don't want to see is the power creep be so strong that it forces the design of new enemies and content to forcefully cut off anything that isn't on the same level as the power creep, I don't want to see another Wolf of Saturn Six issue where some players could kill him in a minute or two while others took 30 minutes to kill him because he was a huge sponge with nothing interesting behind his design.

P.S. Don't worry about it, no offense taken, in fact, you gave me some new thoughts and views on how to word my stance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Saryn is just too easy for how effective she is.

There needs to be more of a strain in making the build she effectively has now. 

Give spores duration again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 часа назад, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru сказал:

Give spores duration again.

What's the point? In response to the fact that nuckers have no place in the game people send us to play solo or in a party. All 50 pages about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Saryn is just too easy for how effective she is.

There needs to be more of a strain in making the build she effectively has now. 

Give spores duration again.

This is exactly it, Saryn used to take multiple readings and testings with different weapons in order to be able to use effectively. You could use her with no mods and she would still be able to do what she does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

this is a fair but bad criticism.

if you don't want a grinding slog you can pay, or, you can not do F2P games.  

if  you don't  pay with money, you pay with time, and that's the trade off.  if you want reasonable reward structures get a solo play experience from the 90s that doesn't  connect to the internet before they invented microtransactions, because now even single player games are infested with that  crap... but the one  place grind has a reasonable place to  exist is in  free to play games, which warframe is.  

additionally, no matter what, people will always be hunting for how to be most efficient  and win the hardest, best and fastest, not just in warframe but in any game, so decreasing grind would leave people  with  less pressure, but  they would still use the meta to clear stuff at a fast rate.  plus de would be giving away a free game  without much incentive for people to support it.

like, you're right, the grind sucks, but it's there  by very intentional design, and in a way, it's completely  justified.

don't get me wrong, i totally gripe  about crap drop  rates,  especially  when i can't buy  something  with  plat, but... even if i'm  not buying with plat, at least it's giving me something to do.

 

I wasn’t trying to criticize anyone. Just saying that since this game requires a lot of grinding and farming, people are going to naturally find builds that can destroy multiple enemies at once. Warframes like Excalibur are meant for taking out tough guys one at a time. While Saryn is meant to take out the weaker hordes. People can exaggerate on how quickly she can take them out all they want. But I’ve NEVER came across a Saryn that can wipe out level 60+ without being buffed by my Rhino. 

It is not our fault that this game requires killing everything we encounter without relent. Many other games do too and people complain about those as well. Most people complaining are newbies that don’t know anything about the game or else they will be complaining that there is too much grinding. 

Most of us learn to play the game. Level up in the game. Obtain newer and better gear. And figure out the best builds to get the job done as quickly as possible in order to farm for what we need to build the things we need/want within a few days instead of months. 

If DE hadn’t made this game to be so grindy then maybe I could see these newbies’ points. But what they are demanding is for DE to hold the rest of us back because they are either ignorant or slow. And it wouldn’t be long before these same people are on here complaining that it takes too long to farm for everything.

I have 2,000 orokin cells. Now to a newbie that appears to be a lot. But to someone who has farmed every day or at least played this game a few hours everyday, it is not. 2,000 over the last 2 years!!! It took me 2 years of just farming and grinding for me to be holding this many. Which just shows how rare these things are. And prime gear require 10-15 each time. I use to spend hours farming specifically for these cells to build all the primes I finally managed to obtain everyday. I would be lucky to get 40 orokin cells in one day without the use of a booster. 

So frames that wiped out the map made it a lot easier for me. Now I have all these frames and these newbies want to take it all away from not only us but from themselves too? 

If DE ever gets it in their head to nerf the frames, then they better nerf the enemies and buff the drop rates. And otherwise a lot of old and new players are gonna quit this game cause not everybody has the time to spend weeks farming for resources to build just one new item. Especially the newer ones that come with newer resources to farm for. 

Point is, people really need to think before they speak about a change to the entire mechanic of the game. 

  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, AkyFenrir said:

First, please check what you've typed before you post. It's clearly painful to read.

Second, elitism is an argument brought against us. There's no denial elitism exist, in this post scenario it's not the case. I don't care that you encountered a low level player elitist (MR 18 is low seriously!).

Third, you confirm everything i've been saying so far : MR is not related to skill, it's related to level stuff, as incredible as it can be it means we know something about EFFICIENCY related to farm when we're 27 in a low amount of hours. Our efficient way of leveling stuff under attack is what we're proving to be stupid and selfish right now. We're not fighting "elitism".

Can you please stay on topic instead of derailing completely about a fake argument against ours ? thank you!

They were literally saying MR doesn't mean anything but that you've had a lot of stuff. 

This victim mentality you've adopted about this situation is also confusing. No one and nothing is under attack. People are debating on the balance issues caused by a frame and playstyle. 

Also: Being passive aggressive isn't a great way to make a point. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, (PS4)chris1pat8twins said:

But I’ve NEVER came across a Saryn that can wipe out level 60+ without being buffed by my Rhino.

i can, as can anyone else with the resources to build her properly.  also, put a zaw in the hands of any warframe and 60+ Is nothing.  until enemies get to the 140+ bracket they are basically wet tissue paper.

that said, i also have all the god tier stuff in the game to min max any build i want to make it viable for solo endless for hours, so it's not exactly a specific frame that is the problem, it"s that we have god tier players playing next to newbs and that causes tension.

sure they fixed the issue with ember just roasting the whole board (at the cost of making her the only truly trash tier frame atm), but the experience is still the same for a newb, they run behind the beefy player and pick up loot on their way to extract, often not firing a single shot.

 

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)chris1pat8twins said:

If DE hadn’t made this game to be so grindy then maybe I could see these newbies’ points. But what they are demanding is for DE to hold the rest of us back because they are either ignorant or slow. And it wouldn’t be long before these same people are on here complaining that it takes too long to farm for everything.

i completely agree.  there is no pleasing the public.  at a certain point people need to accept that there is  a lot of grind in the game because it's F2P, and as a result, more experienced players will have access to grind faster, because they have more to invest in that.  this is often refer to this brand of player as overly entitled... they want a free game, with little to no grind, and to be god tier all at once... I'm actually embarrassed for them.

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)chris1pat8twins said:

Point is, people really need to think before they speak about a change to the entire mechanic of the game. 

i 100% agree, however, this is the internet.  and these are the official warframe forums.  well thought out intellectual discourse is not exactly the base expectation.

I'm usually happy if people aren't flinging their own poo at others.  low expectations makes survival here easier 🙂
 

Edited by Klokwerkaos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

And not everyone signed up to play "shoot brain dead AI simulator". An AI whose patterns one generally knows after the first few weeks of playing. Then it's just a matter of tanking the damage / killing them faster than they can even deal damage. Thereafter they play warframe for other content. Thus they rather kill fodder enemies in Hydron fast so they can get their freshly forma'ed gear back to 30, and go back to their scheduled 3x3 tridolon hunting on PoE or Orb Mother slaying. Different people signed up for different things. Not everyone is a Hydron main like some of you. And in ESO, Simaris' dialogue literally says "do not relent" "kill faster", implying what DE was thinking when they built that game mode, but meanwhile forum mains are like, "no, must nerf all of us so we kill slower" :clem:

 

But other people's wants or ideas for the game don't matter right? Only forum mains matter.

I myself am not a routine tridolon hunter but I can understand very much why some people choose to use nukers and want to do things fast. And yes, when I really want to go slow, I play solo, I don't go into public games and do passive aggressive things like AFK and watch the nuker, or create host migrations when I see some nuker that I think will disrupt my desire to go slow. That's the nature of public game, you live with whoever and whatever RNG gives you. Can't accept? Don't want to accommodate? Go solo. This is not a troll suggestion to be honest, this is very much just being courteous to other players - i.e. accepting both fast AND slow methods, i.e. variety and diversity. Not just demanding only slow methods allowed (i.e killing diversity and creating homogeneity) , which is what most people on the "nerf the things" camp are calling for. One side is very much advocating for restricting and limiting player options - the nerf side, and yet they somehow are completely oblivious to their unfriendly approach towards others. 

While your statement is indeed correct, it does contain some flaws. Even though I thoroughly dislike the lacklustre enemy AI, I'll still kill them whenever I see them, whether I gain affinity or not, because that is a core part of the game. Killing enemies to get more resources and items, so you can go and grind the next item. It's what makes the grind bearable; so when there are no enemies to kill, either out of necessity or boredom, you're left with nothing to do but go afk. Yes, you still get the resources if your team-mate kills the enemies, but how much enjoyment do you gather from waiting for someone to finish nuking? Heck, most of the examples you provided still require you to actively engage in killing brain-dead crewmen, eidolons, or random grineer.

I understand the need for nukes, in order to make getting through the slog (I myself, have frequently used Volt to just get through missions I dislike), a lot quicker, but as I said before, it can be done, without nuking the entire map or removing an element of game-play from others. ESO is not something I'd use as an example of why this game needs nukes. Removing ESO really wouldn't affect anything, since it provides barely anything or worth, and like Arbitrations, the rewards are too heavily saturated with things like relics and endo; the primary incentive for going into ESO would be levelling, since most of the other rewards have such low drop chances, it's not even worth it (unless you're devilishly lucky, and got an entire vandal, peculiar mod, or Khora set on your first try).

The wants and ideas of others are as important as your own, but if you can't be bothered to voice those ideals or opinions, then you really are in no position to complain about the outcome of the event. These forums aren't hidden, and everyone has a free voice here, why, you could say any number of preposterous things, and you'd probably find someone who'd agree with you.

When it comes to public groups, I opt to just let it go; it makes everything so much easier. However, when the balance of the game comes into question, I will undoubtedly say what I think needs to be said, because whatever happens would end up affecting me, regardless of whether I play solo or not.

Organising a group through recruiting chat is a laughable suggestion, since it's become overrun with people looking to do tridolons (especially after the day and night cycles changes), relics or farming. I've tried gathering groups for very specific missions, and each one resulted in failure. Running missions with clanmates? My clan has six members, all of them are my friends or mutual friends, but now, none of them log on, and I've invested to much to just up and leave. After having spent hundreds of hours in public groups, with a fair amount of delightful (or strange) encounters with randoms, I just find solo to be very isolated. It's a lot of fun, to occasionally "handshake" with a random, or have a dance off at extraction.

Frankly, I think both sides are being very abrasive towards one another, due to a loss of respect. To the Saryn + nuke fans, they may believe this side is being very restrictive, whiny, or or just needlessly destructive towards something they love. To the anti-nuke crowd, they may think the nuke fans are being equally whiny, destructive, or restrictive. There are times when I'll be re-reading something I've posted, and I'll realise I was being a bit of a prick towards the person I was arguing with, until I come across some denigrating comment, or a part where they're clearly talking down to me.

 

 

Edited by (PS4)The1stAzrael
typos
  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 2019-08-20 at 12:22 AM, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

Our enemies being vastly underpowered is where the heart of the issue lies.

As long as they remain in their current state, we will continue to encounter this problem. I believe already addressed this fact, in one of my older posts. However, I also touched upon the unlikely hood of this issue being acknowledged by DE and properly dealt with.

Nerfing Saryn temporarily solves a portion of the problem, but this horrendous damage system shall continue to generate problems, until DE is forced to take a look at it. Which isn't going to happen, anytime in the near future.

I find Lenz to be an excellent mass killer, however, due to the restrictions placed upon it, you probably won't be able to nuke things at the same level of Saryn (I am excluding rivens in this estimation, due to how problematic they are).

A simple combo with huge area of effect, low energy costs, no line of sight restriction, no limit on affected enemies, no cooldown, incredible damage scaling/ramp up and the in general as best considered status effects in the game. Might just be me but sounds fundamentally broken and smells a bit like favouritism.

Anyway, eventhough Saryn is somewhat of an extreme case I think there is a general idea behind this. The lack of "difficulty" is a topic constatly mentioned but I´d argue warframe is far from easy if you play the regular way. There are simply ways to bypass any difficulty with certain abilities, weapons or mods. Sometimes this is obviously unintentionally but sometimes not.

In case of Saryn (and Volt) I´m pretty sure it´s absolutely itentionally to make them broken. It´s probably the most efficient approach for developer since you make certain warframes the choice for a specific mission aka the easiest way to "encourage" diversity. From there perspective this is reasonable because they put a lot of effort into creating individual warframes, skins, etc.

 

Anyway I can think of two solutions here:

Increase mission variety. The main issue is quite obvious: There are 40 different warframes already but realistically like 5 relevant game modes. I´m not talking about adding another defend xy style mission type but a new, relevant and sustainable way to play. "New" obviously because otherwise there is no need for an another warframe choice and "relevant" means.. let´s just say loki is kinda broken in (..the actual part of..) spy missions but stealth isn´t really a game defining playstyle in warframe. And of cause "sustainable" because it never becomes core if it will be abandoned after some time.

Alternatively you could make every warframe equally viable which first of all condredicts the point mentioned above and secondly makes the overall design process much more difficult. Also this would need a major system overhaul i.e. not gonna happen.

 

Edited by Arcira

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...