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MrRixter

Can something be done about Saryn?

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il y a 7 minutes, Pizzarugi a dit :

The ever-evolving consequence of game balance.

The never ending consequence of game balance? Works too.

il y a 7 minutes, Pizzarugi a dit :

----

Self quoting, you're making so much progress. I didn't bother to answer this because there's no reason too.

Stating nerf happend before isn't an argument. You're the one thinking nerfing ONE WARFRAME would fix the game...

il y a 7 minutes, Pizzarugi a dit :

Ironic, considering you didn't read my post. Lemme just highlight that...

Feel free too since you're wrong.

il y a 7 minutes, Pizzarugi a dit :

And apparently I know more about spores than you. Did you know they can spread by simply bursting them with gunfire? If you really wanna get cheesy, you can cast Toxic Lash which forces the spores to burst even if you don't hit them, coupled with a shotgun to max the spores on each enemy within range.

You're talking about the initial spore, yes i do, i'm not like you sorry. Fantastic, did you ended up reading the wiki or something when you realized ?

So you didn't explain how LOS on spore wouldn't be broken? you're just quoting stuff and turning stuff to your advantage.

If there is a LOS, you wouldn't be able to get as many spores. So you would take longer to scale. You would need to recast more often your spore (Loosing 20% dps each time). So not it would be impossible to scale it. This would be broken. You still don't get it...

If you're suggestion is terrible, attacking me without proving your argument doesn't work.

And Yes, a skill requiring you to move around the map to find a mob before they die so you don't lose your scaling damage, requires Work. 

In the end you failed to prove your LOS thing wouldn't kill the skill. You can't. Personnal attacks won't get you to win arguments since they are bad arguments.

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5 minutes ago, BLI7Z said:

Plenty of melees and other weapons can outDPS Saryn. Also there are more Warframes that can also get to her nuking levels. Frost is always underestimated... with a good build he can nuke whole rooms. Newer players will be afraid of Saryn, but will stop overestimating her after really knowing how the bigger picture is. 

 

makes sense to me. 

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il y a 10 minutes, (NSW)Badger a dit :

Such as? I've heard Volt and Mesa can approach her numbers but I've been playing Mesa a lot recently and she definitely is a step behind Saryn. I think that you may be correct, but new players definitely see Saryn as OP. Thanks for the info! 

Well. Let's say:

You bring someone who never heard about casinos in a casino. You go the the machines. He see someone putting a coin, light and noise goes on and he sees the guy won with a single coin.

What would that person think? Well If you introduce one coin you'll win. They don't get how the system works behind so they reached a bad conclusion. His probability to win are stupidly low. As long as he doesn't know it, he'll put the piece and won't win.

They play the game without nukers and paf, there's a nukers (i can't play so it's a problem)

 

A new player doesn't get all warframe mechanics in the same way. You end up with people like op, seeing something they don't understand and complain about it. He doesn't even know yet about all the other AOE stuff... It doesn't matter right ? Ignorance is such a bliss

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1 minute ago, AkyFenrir said:

Well. Let's say:

You bring someone who never heard about casinos in a casino. You go the the machines. He see someone putting a coin, light and noise goes on and he sees the guy won with a single coin.

What would that person think? Well If you introduce one coin you'll win. They don't get how the system works behind so they reached a bad conclusion. His probability to win are stupidly low. As long as he doesn't know it, he'll put the piece and won't win.

They play the game without nukers and paf, there's a nukers (i can't play so it's a problem)

 

A new player doesn't get all warframe mechanics in the same way. You end up with people like op, seeing something they don't understand and complain about it. He doesn't even know yet about all the other AOE stuff... It doesn't matter right ? Ignorance is such a bliss

ah yes, I remember those days for me, almost a year ago when I started with the Switch launch. I have a head for mechanics and builds and I tend to get obsessed with systems I like (I am a high-functioning Autistic. It is my understanding this is common) so I saw this very early on myself. I was actually looking for a Saryn Prime at a reasonable price when DE announced weekend wars would give us her relics... I farmed two of her and haven't looked back. I love her playstyle, which is an active one despite criticism. I also really appreciate her ability to just make every mission much, much faster. Though I do sometimes feel bad when I get matched with lower mastery ranks and newer players. I can totally understand that to them it looks like I'm just taking away the game from them. Maybe Saryn should be thought of in the same vein as Nidus: extremely well built, full of synergy, and exiled to long runs and high-level content... and a pain in the rear to farm. 

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, AkyFenrir said:

Stating nerf happend before isn't an argument. You're the one thinking nerfing ONE WARFRAME would fix the game...

There you go putting words in my mouth again.

It's not just one warframe that needs nerfs. Saryn, Mesa, Volt, and Equinox can all nuke and they all equally need to be toned down. My current main Nidus is pre-nerf Valkyr levels of unstoppable, but he also needs to get toned down, same with Inaros. Chroma trivializes "Grand Bosses" like eidolons and also needs to get toned down. There are so many other frames that need to be looked at.

This game is an unbalanced nightmare where the power is skewed unbelievably in the player's favor, but here's the thing: The topic of this discussion pertains to Saryn.

30 minutes ago, AkyFenrir said:

So you didn't explain how LOS on spore wouldn't be broken?

That's not my responsibility. You're the one who claimed it would ruin Spore, you're the one who needs to explain why. My claim was that spore would encourage Saryn users to do more than cast it once, pop it on the victim, and have the entire room covered then never have to worry about it. You want to talk about skill, well this is how you make an ability require it.

If you can't apply a little more effort than casting it once or twice, that's your problem. You not having an interest in taking a more active role in maintaining Spore isn't a reason why LoS would ruin it.

Edited by Pizzarugi
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il y a 1 minute, (NSW)Badger a dit :

ah yes, I remember those days for me, almost a year ago when I started with the Switch launch. I have a head for mechanics and builds and I tend to get obsessed with systems I like (I am a high-functioning Autistic. It is my understanding this is common) so I saw this very early on myself. I was actually looking for a Saryn Prime at a reasonable price when DE announced weekend wars would give us her relics... I farmed two of her and haven't looked back. I love her playstyle, which is an active one despite criticism. I also really appreciate her ability to just make every mission much, much faster. Though I do sometimes feel bad when I get matched with lower mastery ranks and newer players. I can totally understand that to them it looks like I'm just taking away the game from them. Maybe Saryn should be thought of in the same vein as Nidus: extremely well built, full of synergy, and exiled to long runs and high-level content... and a pain in the rear to farm. 

That's what made you understand the game and not complain about Saryn.

You were lucky, that's nice you could get Saryn from relics :) 

You played the Warframe. A lot of people complaining can't say that.Most people here don't understand how spore works... (claiming you don't have to move around and it's as easy to maintain it as pressing a single button).

The problem with targeted criticism like this one, it's attacking a symptom not the cause. Attacking the "balance" would affect the game drastically (not necessarly in their favor).

If i'm with a new player who ask me to slow down, i would do it, discussing in game might solve a lot of problems. Yet here we are on a nerf tread initiated by a beginner... 

Might not work every time. Never seen it happening. It's always the same people bringing the same arguments in the balance all the time.

Nerfing saryn would lead to the next nuker  to take her place. Would cause the same problem for beginners. And there's powerful combo/weapons after that...

At this rythm she might get nerfed, enjoy Saryn as long as you can :)

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il y a 4 minutes, Pizzarugi a dit :

That's not my responsibility. You're the one who claimed it would ruin Spore, you're the one who needs to explain why. My claim was that spore would encourage Saryn users to do more than cast it once, pop it on the victim, and have the entire room covered then never have to worry about it. You want to talk about skill, well this is how you make an ability require it.
 

It's done 16 minutes ago...  proven your claim is a misundersting of Saryn already.

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ppls still crying bout saryn? even after they already toned her down? lol k

 

/thread ignored.

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Looking through an article linked earlier, and I found something interesting. I'm not on my computer, so formatting isn't as I would prefer.

"A phrase we used on the Civilization development team to describe this phenomenon is that “water finds a crack” – meaning that any hole a player can possibly find in the game’s design will be inevitably abused over and over. The greatest danger is that once a player discovers such an exploit, she will never be able to play the game again without using it"

This is exactly what's happening with Saryn. Players found the "exploit" and now would have no idea how to continue on if that were to be taken away. (An exaggeration of course, but the point still stands.) They abuse Nukes, namely for this thread, Saryn, for the sake of efficiency. 

God forbid they actually have to play the game, instead of just push a couple buttons and win. Or, better yet, have someone else push two buttons and win for them. 

I can't understand why anyone would want to play a game.... But not play it. 

"One of the dangers of players looking to optimize a game is that a single dominant strategy will emerge that drowns out all others."

Pretty self-explanitory there. 

But here's the kicker-

"Does the exploit drown out all other play styles, or is it a fun, alternative way to play?"

Saryn drowns out the playstyles of everyone in her squad and effectively chokes out everyone else's gameplay. 

The game is a team game. 

Teams are not about one person.

She should have to work with her team instead of over them. 

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2 minutes ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

Looking through an article linked earlier, and I found something interesting. I'm not on my computer, so formatting isn't as I would prefer.

"A phrase we used on the Civilization development team to describe this phenomenon is that “water finds a crack” – meaning that any hole a player can possibly find in the game’s design will be inevitably abused over and over. The greatest danger is that once a player discovers such an exploit, she will never be able to play the game again without using it"

This is exactly what's happening with Saryn. Players found the "exploit" and now would have no idea how to continue on if that were to be taken away. (An exaggeration of course, but the point still stands.) They abuse Nukes, namely for this thread, Saryn, for the sake of efficiency. 

God forbid they actually have to play the game, instead of just push a couple buttons and win. Or, better yet, have someone else push two buttons and win for them. 

I can't understand why anyone would want to play a game.... But not play it. 

"One of the dangers of players looking to optimize a game is that a single dominant strategy will emerge that drowns out all others."

Pretty self-explanitory there. 

But here's the kicker-

"Does the exploit drown out all other play styles, or is it a fun, alternative way to play?"

Saryn drowns out the playstyles of everyone in her squad and effectively chokes out everyone else's gameplay. 

The game is a team game. 

Teams are not about one person.

She should have to work with her team instead of over them. 

Do you actually know how Saryn and other Warframes and weapons work? You are one more that is overestimating Saryn and nukers, and exaggerating a lot. 

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If someone can outDPS you, or make you bored because it kills everything, with a nuker... it is because you gotta git gud in the game. It is so damned easy to outDPS a nuker even with a Sniper. Don't try to put excuses so they nerf nukers just because you don't know how to use all the other tools of the trade. 

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On 2019-08-02 at 11:13 PM, MrRixter said:

I'm a fairly new player and today I got matched with a Saryn at my sortie. It was the first time that I felt bored in the game. There was nothing for me to do, everything was dying instantly all over the map so I just went afk and made a cup of tea. Whats the point of me trying to improve my frames and get all the mods, arcanes etc, when a frame exists which can nuke the whole map with no effort at all? I apologise if I'm wrong but from what I saw was a Saryn barely even moving.

I feel quite deflated right now and confused on how something so broken is allowed to exist in the game. Bare in my mind I'm quite new so I'm not aware if there are other broken frames, its just this Saryn was the first one I saw.

Youre not wrong. Everyone can be op and casually drink coffee while at it.

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Il y a 1 heure, BLI7Z a dit :

Do you actually know how Saryn and other Warframes and weapons work? You are one more that is overestimating Saryn and nukers, and exaggerating a lot. 

Yes he does, and still try to go about it.

il y a une heure, XenMaster a dit :

Youre not wrong. Everyone can be op and casually drink coffee while at it.

Well op said he left the game because he felt he couldn't play...and he doesn't know the game. Rushed the forum on the first problem he found.

You could go with the obvious answer : To be Op too...

 

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3 hours ago, BLI7Z said:

If someone can outDPS you, or make you bored because it kills everything, with a nuker... it is because you gotta git gud in the game. It is so damned easy to outDPS a nuker even with a Sniper. Don't try to put excuses so they nerf nukers just because you don't know how to use all the other tools of the trade. 

...Excellent game design philosophy, a Co-op game where people literally need to fight EACH OTHER to actually have a chance to contribute more than just increased spawn counts to the team.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Aldain said:

...Excellent game design philosophy, a Co-op game where people literally need to fight EACH OTHER to actually have a chance to contribute more than just increased spawn counts to the team.

I play to kill fast, I play to train my reflexes and precision. I don't care about nukers or support, because they don't inflict nothing in my gamestyle. Want to know what really helps to contribute in a team for me? FastNova and Sonar Banshee. FastNova makes things more interesting, and Sonar Banshee gives a nice damage boost. But hell, this post isn't about team configurations or gamestyles. It is about NUKES, and nukes are another tool that isn't really SOOOOOO overpowered as people say. People just fear nukers because they are usually slower than those nukers that press a key to win, so most can't kill faster than the nuker. That's why I say git gud, a nuker isn't the Baba Yaga everyone states. 

Edited by BLI7Z
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Posted (edited)
vor 10 Stunden schrieb (NSW)Badger:

Such as? I've heard Volt and Mesa can approach her numbers but I've been playing Mesa a lot recently and she definitely is a step behind Saryn. I think that you may be correct, but new players definitely see Saryn as OP. Thanks for the info! 

thats the problem: new player do not know how warframe really works.. and a saryn who is killing so much enemies like some still writing (which is only possible under the right circumstances) is build and played by a player who takes lot of time in its build and frame. therefore i can't understand why a new player compare his frame to someone who playes 10 times longer. i can easiliy kill the whole map with a volt, equinox or mesa, in lower missions (which is the only missions new player have access to) i even can do this with an (still broken) ember, bashee, nezha, oberon, nekros, nidus.... etc. 

most of this frames kill the room with a single button hit like saryn with higher dmg and reach than saryn has.

even if saryn spread her power, you are still able to kill the enemies before they get killed by the ability by just shooting them or killing in melee. if you are not able to, you might have lag in your playstyle at this point.

if a volt use his power, you has no time to do anything before the enemies on the whole map are whiped out.

Edited by (PS4)NewcastleDisease
add some...
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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

Looking through an article linked earlier, and I found something interesting. I'm not on my computer, so formatting isn't as I would prefer.

"A phrase we used on the Civilization development team to describe this phenomenon is that “water finds a crack” – meaning that any hole a player can possibly find in the game’s design will be inevitably abused over and over. The greatest danger is that once a player discovers such an exploit, she will never be able to play the game again without using it"

This is exactly what's happening with Saryn. Players found the "exploit" and now would have no idea how to continue on if that were to be taken away. (An exaggeration of course, but the point still stands.) They abuse Nukes, namely for this thread, Saryn, for the sake of efficiency. 

God forbid they actually have to play the game, instead of just push a couple buttons and win. Or, better yet, have someone else push two buttons and win for them. 

I can't understand why anyone would want to play a game.... But not play it. 

"One of the dangers of players looking to optimize a game is that a single dominant strategy will emerge that drowns out all others."

Pretty self-explanitory there. 

But here's the kicker-

"Does the exploit drown out all other play styles, or is it a fun, alternative way to play?"

Saryn drowns out the playstyles of everyone in her squad and effectively chokes out everyone else's gameplay. 

The game is a team game. 

Teams are not about one person.

She should have to work with her team instead of over them. 

That argument is self-defeating.
Group anti-Saryn claims Saryn is too powerful and that argument claims that once people use Saryn they will never use anything else.

Objectively wrong because I haven't seen Saryn in any sorties in the last month.
I haven't seen Saryn in arbitration in the last 6 months.
I haven't seen Saryn at tridolons in the last year.
I run low level missions quite often with players needing help (what's a MR27 to do other than sit in recruit chat and help people out?) and I rarely ever see Saryn there and I also rarely ever pick Saryn as my frame of choice to help carry low level players.

I see Saryn exclusively in only one thing. ESO. Because she is just about the only frame that can solo ESO to 8 waves and a bit beyond, if needed, with ease.

============

So let's go over a few things here.

Low level missions across the starmap?
-Many frames do it better than Saryn. Hell, even Ember just running through can still do it easier than Saryn. Banshee just jumping and spamming 4?

So let's dial down the mission types one by one.
Arena- Any frame but I mostly see Nidus/Nekros because people are farming endo.
Assassination- Saryn sucks at this compared to any number of other frames or even any weapon that can deal damage.
Assault- Depending on the level and enemy type, Saryn's casting and dot makes her undesirable here and indeed, other frames can match or outshine her here.
Capture- No.
Defection- While her range would help keep the defectors safe here I rarely ever see her here, I wonder why? Maybe it's because she's not optimal, huh.
Defense (and by default, maybe Thermia?)- Again, nope. I don't see her used often in these missions either and there are better picks for keeping the defense objective safe. Maybe baddies who don't know what Gara is still take Saryn to Hydron and try to spam 4 but they're doing it wrong when Gara does it way better and Banshee does it way better.
Disruption- Nah, Saryn sucks here.
Excavation- Again, Saryn sucks here.
Exterminate- Oh, the mission type where you'd expect to see Saryn all of the time. I rarely ever see her.
Free roam/Bounty- Can't remember the last time I saw a Saryn out on the plains or vallis.
Hijack- Trinity or Hildryn?
Infested Salvage- Whoa, the one game mode where Ember is one of the top picks and her nerfs just made her better for this. 😄
Interception- Limbo, Octavia, not Saryn.
Junction- lol?
Mobile Defense- Limbo, Octavia, not Saryn.
Pursuit- Itzal.
Rescue- Not Saryn, maybe check Volt or Wisp or whatever fast frame we have instead?
Rush- Itzal.
Sabotage- Not Saryn, maybe check Rescue?
Sanctuary Onslaught- HOLY FREAKING HELL. One game mode where Saryn is top pick. Even then I don't see her significantly more than other frames on here. And unless it's Elite I tend to not see her at all. If you're solo, then Saryn. If you're SO with a friend then definitely not Saryn and if you're ESO then maybe Saryn.
Spy- Not Saryn.
Survival- Again, not Saryn. Her wide range kills enemies where the drops don't spawn making her not a top pick for players.

While you can complete ANY of these mission types with ANY frame there is only one mode where Saryn is a top pick and only
So the argument that, "omg, Saryn is too good and makes the game unplayable" literally applies to one game mode. And it's not that Saryn makes it unplayable, it's that Saryn is the only one that can basically 100% solo 8 waves without worry.

============

And line of sight Saryn is just a dumb idea. Poison in the air does not spread with line of sight restriction.

Edited by uAir
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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, uAir said:

Exterminate- Oh, the mission type where you'd expect to see Saryn all of the time. I rarely ever see her.

The answer is simple: she sucks there as well. Any fast frame with good aoe weapon: Nezha/Wisp/Volt will go forward and clear enemies before Saryn could even reach where.

And also, thank you for listing every mission type. This is what every reasonable player is aware of. But some just ignore. We've been talking about this for long but nobody made listing yet. Thank you.

This thread proves one thing: some people are dumb, ignorant, selfish and lazy.  This is sad to know. But you can't fight it with arguments. It's like trying to cause with an armed junkie in the metro who's lack of fix is making him mad. You can give him 1000 faintest arguments. He'd still rob you and don't give a sihte.
 

Edited by TeaHawk
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11 часов назад, BLI7Z сказал:

It is so damned easy to outDPS a nuker even with a Sniper.

The percentage of DPS does not matter, because the numbers are broken. Is caused damage, not actual damage, as it should. If you're proud of injecting millions of damage into mobs that has 100 HP, then I have bad news. Quantity is more important.

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One Tweak that comes to my mind for Miasma would be that it spreads like say... Molekular Prime. I think visually could it look awesome. It does decrease the killing speed a little bit of course. I wouldn't mind that.

I can't agree on the LoS treatment though. That would - indeed - break Saryns kit heavily.

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Posted (edited)
Il y a 12 heures, Sea_Blue_Stars a dit :

Looking through an article linked earlier, and I found something interesting. I'm not on my computer, so formatting isn't as I would prefer.

"A phrase we used on the Civilization development team to describe this phenomenon is that “water finds a crack” – meaning that any hole a player can possibly find in the game’s design will be inevitably abused over and over. The greatest danger is that once a player discovers such an exploit, she will never be able to play the game again without using it"

I can't understand why anyone would want to play a game.... But not play it. 

"One of the dangers of players looking to optimize a game is that a single dominant strategy will emerge that drowns out all others."

Pretty self-explanitory there. 

But here's the kicker-

"Does the exploit drown out all other play styles, or is it a fun, alternative way to play?"

Saryn drowns out the playstyles of everyone in her squad and effectively chokes out everyone else's gameplay. 

The game is a team game. 

Teams are not about one person.

She should have to work with her team instead of over them. 

You're a genius ! Let's talk about what Civilization developers team think about game developping. Let's forget immediately it's a strategy game, you can't let yourself be bothered by the fact strategy and tps grinding games are different. It would ruin your argument from the very beggining if you pointed that out immediately right ?

Taking a random stuff those dev said about "water finding a crack" makes complete sense in a strategy game! if everyone play the same strategy the entire game is completely useless ! You need multiple strategies and counter for that genre of game! 

Second phrase from strategy game developper. Yes obviously people would abuse the best strategy available to win a STRATEGY game. Wait, i've forgotten something here. 

hmmm, Oh right there's pvp in this game... So it's a pvp argument. Let's get it out of context again, right ?

You do realize Civilization is a free for all kind of pvp ? No you don't. 

Can't wait to get you to take out of context every other game dev talk in any genre except the one we're playing on warframe. This is going to be soooo gold.

Il y a 3 heures, uAir a dit :

So let's dial down the mission types one by one.

Done that, Checke Pizzarugi answer last page. Well Saryn can be played in those mission, she can use her skills there so she's op ! Because being able to pick a warframe makes it the best in every gamemode for him ... 

It's impossible to have a good conversation with them. They don't know the game. They think they do but they don't. 

Edited by AkyFenrir

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

t's not just one warframe that needs nerfs. Saryn, Mesa, Volt, and Equinox can all nuke and they all equally need to be toned down. My current main Nidus is pre-nerf Valkyr levels of unstoppable, but he also needs to get toned down, same with Inaros. Chroma trivializes "Grand Bosses" like eidolons and also needs to get toned down. There are so many other frames that need to be looked at.

There you go. Proven we didn't straw man anything.. Yes yes, nerf all the things till we get 40 different Rhinos with different flavors. Good design recommendations.

That is why people are defending Saryn. Because it is to prevent an avalanche from occurring. Supposing the devs nerf Saryn. Lets say it was not a huge nerf. She becomes Volt-level strong. But look, there already exists calls for nerfs on Volt. So guess what? Time to nerf again, and eventually she, and maybe Volt too, become pushed to Mesa level (some might debate that Mesa is better than Volt, but this is not the point). But wait, that's not enough. The nerf callers continue. Now Mesa, Volt and Saryn continue getting nerfed to Equinox level. Now again the levels here can be debated on which is above the other but the point is you guys keep asking for nerfs until what? All of them are tanks with scaling damage like Nidus. But you also are against Nidus and Inaros and Chroma. Nerf those too. So now everything becomes..... .... Excalibur. 

Good job. Well played. Excalibur clones.

Edited by Xepthrichros
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Warframe is better compared to borderlands. In the second part there is a krig which is a nucker. He is the best example of how saryn should work. Yes, he can blow up part of the map in seconds, but he can't blow up the whole map. 

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3 hours ago, uAir said:

So let's dial down the mission types one by one.
Arena- Any frame but I mostly see Nidus/Nekros because people are farming endo.
Assassination- Saryn sucks at this compared to any number of other frames or even any weapon that can deal damage.
Assault- Depending on the level and enemy type, Saryn's casting and dot makes her undesirable here and indeed, other frames can match or outshine her here.
Capture- No.
Defection- While her range would help keep the defectors safe here I rarely ever see her here, I wonder why? Maybe it's because she's not optimal, huh.
Defense (and by default, maybe Thermia?)- Again, nope. I don't see her used often in these missions either and there are better picks for keeping the defense objective safe. Maybe baddies who don't know what Gara is still take Saryn to Hydron and try to spam 4 but they're doing it wrong when Gara does it way better and Banshee does it way better.
Disruption- Nah, Saryn sucks here.
Excavation- Again, Saryn sucks here.
Exterminate- Oh, the mission type where you'd expect to see Saryn all of the time. I rarely ever see her.
Free roam/Bounty- Can't remember the last time I saw a Saryn out on the plains or vallis.
Hijack- Trinity or Hildryn?
Infested Salvage- Whoa, the one game mode where Ember is one of the top picks and her nerfs just made her better for this. 😄
Interception- Limbo, Octavia, not Saryn.
Junction- lol?
Mobile Defense- Limbo, Octavia, not Saryn.
Pursuit- Itzal.
Rescue- Not Saryn, maybe check Volt or Wisp or whatever fast frame we have instead?
Rush- Itzal.
Sabotage- Not Saryn, maybe check Rescue?
Sanctuary Onslaught- HOLY FREAKING HELL. One game mode where Saryn is top pick. Even then I don't see her significantly more than other frames on here. And unless it's Elite I tend to not see her at all. If you're solo, then Saryn. If you're SO with a friend then definitely not Saryn and if you're ESO then maybe Saryn.
Spy- Not Saryn.
Survival- Again, not Saryn. Her wide range kills enemies where the drops don't spawn making her not a top pick for players.

While you can complete ANY of these mission types with ANY frame there is only one mode where Saryn is a top pick and only
So the argument that, "omg, Saryn is too good and makes the game unplayable" literally applies to one game mode. And it's not that Saryn makes it unplayable, it's that Saryn is the only one that can basically 100% solo 8 waves without worry.

Ironically enough, there is a frame that pops out the most in all those game modes and I have the tingly feeling that most of the people complaining on the topic didn't bother with anything further than that one.

I'd even go as far as to disagree that she's top pick in ESO, everyone being complete leeches and all, 70% are Rhino, Inaros, Loki or Limbo, 20% are Trinity and then MAYBE the last 10% something of the rank of Saryn/Volt/Equinox.

Outside of ESO, anyone who can't outperform Saryn has himself to blame. Yesteday I encountered a total of 5 Saryns, 2 in ESO, 3 outside. I outdamaged them all, with Volt in ESO and with Wukong outside. She also requires all 3 abilities to maintain her damage output, unlike the actual braindead frames, so to anyone complaining about her, I'm going to be blunt - you can't play.

Another example of incompetence:
"Rhino is popping drop ships out of the sky and invalidating gameplay in bounties, while standing on the same spot"
Now should we:
A) Nerf IS and Roar
B) Enjoy being carried
C) Experiment with various builds to achieve similar results

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2 минуты назад, Ver1dian сказал:

"Rhino is popping drop ships out of the sky and invalidating gameplay in bounties, while standing on the same spot"

When Rhino starts shooting down spaceships that drop capsules or teleport mobs to you, then we'll talk. And Yes, Saryn, too, can this, so as has simply divine augment on buff weapons. And she has a personal weapon buff. 

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