Can something be done about Saryn?

[Stormwind81]

IMHO It is necessary to make her ability 4 not be able to trigger when there are NO spores anywhere.
Every other frame has a failsafe mechanic for not falsely triggering an ability but not saryn.

 

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

The fact that this thread is 56 pages deep with some of the comments I've read without being locked is proof positive that DE definitely needs mod help ASAFP

[AkyFenrir]

 

Le 24/08/2019 à 02:33, Pizzarugi a dit :

Matchmaking does.

Too bad there's no way players can blacklist certain frames or weapons from matchmaking, where people can't join your sessions, or you can't join sessions if there's someone using them. It doesn't even have to be about Saryn, perhaps you're the kinda person who hates having Limbo in the team because of how often he gets abused by griefers, same with Switch Teleporting Loki.

Matchmaking get me with explorers in capture missions... I'm not complaining about them here am I?

Le 24/08/2019 à 07:36, Pizzarugi a dit :

I'd like to see how successful anyone is going to be, asking for a private squad every time they want to run one mission just to avoid some frames. 😛

Well... I can solo everything in the game... And i've a Clan with an alliance sooo it's not that hard !

Le 24/08/2019 à 08:47, Pizzarugi a dit :

If I was new to this shooter game and I saw that I would be spending most of my time not getting to do any fighting, because someone in team is mashing 4, I'd have probably not stuck around for as long as I have.

And yet here I am... I enjoyed Mag gameplay so much I ended up being a founder of this game. Expectations I guess ?

I'm pretty sure it was like this when you started the game? Why are you still there ? We've debunked all your arguments, at some points you can only stay relevant here by saying "IF" and spraying "toxic" around. 

Le 24/08/2019 à 21:03, Blexander a dit :

Nobody goes on the forums to talk about possitives anyway (unless you go to off-topic). If things are good, there's nothing to say about it. I mean, I agree with you somewhat. There are those negative posts full of nothing but vitriol, no costructive criticism or the like. They're still not as common as you'd think, but when you see them, they stick out.

Like this one :) There's not a single good argument in all these pages...

Le 25/08/2019 à 01:12, Aldain a dit :

Yep, still impressed the mods haven't closed it.

Then again, one huge topic can be a good dumping ground for duplicate threads and a lightning rod to reduce the number of similar threads made.

I'm surprised too! I got messages erased about criticizing the new archwing blink thingie on dodge... (i've answered some agressive guy, and apparently, it's enough to get my stuff deleted here)

Le 25/08/2019 à 13:21, Sahansral a dit :

Funny,  I read that same advice before.

For Ember (before her rework).

For Ash (before his rework).

For Banshee (before...yes, you guessed right).

Also for Mesa and Nova and Limbo.

If you connect the dots, it seems, that in the past DE sooner or later acts instead of forcing players into private squads...

Well i doubt you know anything about Ember. If you did you wouldn't use her as an example to justify nerfs. It's litteraly the worst case of nerf in this game.

Ash? You do realise that rework doesn't mean "nerf nuke" riiiiight ?

Banshee is Still useful as support these days at least... 

If you can't shoot when there's a Mesa you don't know enough about this game. 

Nova was my main, back in the days still the one most used warframe on my profile, i wonder why?

Limbo... hmmm what ? Throwing names randomly isn't getting you credibility you know ?

I'd say DE made mistakes on those... So maybe you don't see the same dots ?

[Sahansral]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb AkyFenrir:

Well i doubt you know anything about Ember. If you did you wouldn't use her as an example to justify nerfs. It's litteraly the worst case of nerf in this game.

Ash? You do realise that rework doesn't mean "nerf nuke" riiiiight ?

Banshee is Still useful as support these days at least... 

If you can't shoot when there's a Mesa you don't know enough about this game. 

Nova was my main, back in the days still the one most used warframe on my profile, i wonder why?

Limbo... hmmm what ? Throwing names randomly isn't getting you credibility you know ?

I'd say DE made mistakes on those... So maybe you don't see the same dots ?

You seem to misunderstand me. My particular statement there is not about nerfs. I just stated that there are quite some similarities between threads for those frames made before they were changed by DE and the current ones about Saryn.

We have the "Frame x is destroying our enjoyment in the game by making other party members feel irrelevant." argument and its twin "Well, just go into private matches".

I can't recall any frame where I saw this combination that was left unchanged by DE. That's all I state 🙂

[AkyFenrir]

il y a 55 minutes, Sahansral a dit :

You seem to misunderstand me. My particular statement there is not about nerfs. I just stated that there are quite some similarities between threads for those frames made before they were changed by DE and the current ones about Saryn.

We have the "Frame x is destroying our enjoyment in the game by making other party members feel irrelevant." argument and its twin "Well, just go into private matches".

I can't recall any frame where I saw this combination that was left unchanged by DE. That's all I state 🙂

Yeah, trying to reduce our arguments to "go private" isn't really very accurate.

Learn the game has been repeated over and over... I wonder why you're not saying they should learn how to play instead of suggesting people like OP are right?

By the way, how many players stay because Saryn is there ? No clue ? Oh right they're not whining on the forums so we shouldn't care about them... 

[Sahansral]

vor 41 Minuten schrieb AkyFenrir:

Yeah, trying to reduce our arguments to "go private" isn't really very accurate.

Learn the game has been repeated over and over... I wonder why you're not saying they should learn how to play instead of suggesting people like OP are right?

By the way, how many players stay because Saryn is there ? No clue ? Oh right they're not whining on the forums so we shouldn't care about them... 

Well, I read over "L2Play" because it usually marks the end of any further meaningful discussion in any game forum thread.
(Just on a site note, Saryn imho isn't a very complex frame with a high skill ceiling. The real irony here is, the more experience and synergies you put into Saryn the worse it gets for other frames, especially the ones that have indeed a higher skill ceiling, like harrow, Sonar-Banshee).

And about players staying only because of one frame: Perhaps they prefer her even more after some tweaks. Who knows? DE did some drastic changes to the aforementioned frames in the past. Sometimes successfull, sometimes ... less successfull. DE doesn't shy away from demanding from their players to adapt to changes despite protests. Member Mirage + Simulor?  Another great example! The rage on both sides before and after the changes. I member. 😋

Edited August 26, 2019 by Sahansral

[AkyFenrir]

il y a 23 minutes, Sahansral a dit :

Well, I read over "L2Play" because it usually marks the end of any further meaningful discussion in any game forum thread.
(Just on a site note, Saryn imho isn't a very complex frame with a high skill ceiling. The real irony here is, the more experience and synergies you put into Saryn the worse it gets for other frames, especially the ones that have indeed a higher skill ceiling, like harrow, Sonar-Banshee).

 

There's a difference between "Learn to play" and "Learn the game"... gameplay and mechanics much?

il y a 23 minutes, Sahansral a dit :

And about players staying only because of one frame: Perhaps they prefer her even more after some tweaks. Who knows? DE did some drastic changes to the aforementioned frames in the past. Sometimes successfull, sometimes ... less successfull. DE doesn't shy away from demanding from their players to adapt to changes despite protests. Member Mirage + Simulor?  Another great example! The rage on both sides before and after the changes. I member. 😋

It's not just about one frame, it's about what's possible in the game... Some react like Op, some chase that power... That's why Arbitration was nerfed right ? All this "the game is too easy thingie" they had to nerf because people can't handle challenge? So "despite protest", nope you're wrong... 

I've no doubt someone like you feed himself trough negative emotions...

[Xepthrichros]

"If the battle seems out of control, Tenno you are not going fast enough"

Combined with Simaris' "Do not relent", "Kill faster"

Get the message already. DE wants us to be fast.

[(XBOX)Adaptabilty]

I'd like to say that while being extremely powerful, I don't think these frames need as much a Nerf, but a change to game state. Right now mass nukes/mass kill frames are the meta. However, if we have more events in which killing, and crowd control. Or more crowd control focused encounters, then you would probably see less nukes, and more enemies to kill or deter. In addition, the fun of Warframe is that despite having a kill frame meta every frame has a use, not everything can be solved by a saryn per se. There will be a need for frames like Nova, rhino, chroma, volt, limbo, hyldren, ivara, Loki, frost, gara, inaros, harrow, mirage, Trinity, oberon etc. Also, you will tend to rotate frames anyway. 

[Pizzarugi]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Adaptabilty said:

I'd like to say that while being extremely powerful, I don't think these frames need as much a Nerf, but a change to game state. Right now mass nukes/mass kill frames are the meta. However, if we have more events in which killing, and crowd control. Or more crowd control focused encounters, then you would probably see less nukes, and more enemies to kill or deter. In addition, the fun of Warframe is that despite having a kill frame meta every frame has a use, not everything can be solved by a saryn per se. There will be a need for frames like Nova, rhino, chroma, volt, limbo, hyldren, ivara, Loki, frost, gara, inaros, harrow, mirage, Trinity, oberon etc. Also, you will tend to rotate frames anyway. 

What are "crowd control focused encounters"? There's nothing you can't implement that needs CC which the players can't destroy en masse, not unless DE adds missions where enemy levels are so high that DPS and nuke frames are worthless. The other problem faced here is that it makes said frames and any non-CC frames worthless and narrows down frame diversity.

Back in the day, CC used to be the meta. I remember seeing this played out trying to do Phoenix Intercept tactical event where we had to fight level 100 enemies (before power creep made players crazy OP), and the only way to win was to lock the enemies down with CC. Trying that again today would be laughingly easy. However, barring rare events like Phoenix Intercept, DPS and support frames still weren't non-viable.

[Blexander]

2 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

Get the message already. DE wants us to be fast.

We'll be faster once the doors start opening up faster. I swear, it's like DE forgot that 95% of the game isn't open world maps.

[Pizzarugi]

1 minute ago, Blexander said:

We'll be faster once the doors start opening up faster. I swear, it's like DE forgot that 95% of the game isn't open world maps.

Friendship doors are, and always will be, our greatest enemy.

[AkyFenrir]

il y a 59 minutes, Pizzarugi a dit :

What are "crowd control focused encounters"? There's nothing you can't implement that needs CC which the players can't destroy en masse, not unless DE adds missions where enemy levels are so high that DPS and nuke frames are worthless. The other problem faced here is that it makes said frames and any non-CC frames worthless and narrows down frame diversity.

Back in the day, CC used to be the meta. I remember seeing this played out trying to do Phoenix Intercept tactical event where we had to fight level 100 enemies (before power creep made players crazy OP), and the only way to win was to lock the enemies down with CC. Trying that again today would be laughingly easy. However, barring rare events like Phoenix Intercept, DPS and support frames still weren't non-viable.

I'll assume you mean "can" here... Proceed to say something is impossible... Demonstrate something like that was done in the past...

Well they would have to up the level that's all... Can't wait for complaint about "we can't do it if we don't have a CC in public" ;)

Whenever DE adds something not "nuker" related (arbitration), players go directly asking for nerfs... Funny DE did that too right ? So what's the plan? We can't nuke and we can't have challenge anymore ? That would be "so much" fun to play...

[uAir]

Saryn doesn't need a nerf or a change yet.

She does only one thing well. Everything else there are clearly better choices or comparable choices.
The majority of people crying or complaining are crying because they are low level players seeing a Saryn press 4 in their low level game thinking Saryn is op. That's just wrong and born of inexperience and ignorance.

The others then revising their illusions to be that Saryn is OP at endgame are also wrong. She can't clear the truly endgame content because she doesn't have the survivability or damage output of the truly endgame frames.

Saryn's only saving grace is that she can do low level content decently with her spores tacking on damage to kill those low level enemies.
And that she can do SO/ESO solo with ease because of her 1.

Her 4 doesn't factor into how to play her at all. Saryn is all about her 1 and 3.

You can clear content with Saryn at 90% of Saryn's peak performance using only 1 and 3. Her 4 amounts to that last 10%, if that.

You can clear ESO with only 1 and 3. You can't clear it with only her 4.
And to the few of you who think her 2 is good, look again. Her 2 is worthless and I'm sorry you spent time modding for it. If you did polarize for it at least it'll be a nice umbral Saryn build with one of the other augments for her 1 or 3 instead.

============

TLDR
I hope DE doesn't listen to the inexperienced players on here asking for a nerf on Saryn. She's fine as is.
Everyone who thinks Saryn needs a nerf can only supply their opinions and has failed to give any proof as to why she's too strong.

I played over 100 missions today. I saw 3 Saryns. I outperformed them all save for the Mobile Defense sortie when I was afk Limbo. Even then, it can be argued that I was infinitely more useful and effective than the Saryn that did ~350ish kills.

If you're not at SO/ESO and a Saryn is outperforming you or is making the game an afk zone for you then consider maybe actually learning to play the game before you start your whining.

[Xepthrichros]

1 hour ago, Pizzarugi said:

There's nothing you can't implement that needs CC which the players can't destroy en masse, not unless DE adds missions where enemy levels are so high that DPS and nuke frames are worthless.

Look here. Someone clearly still hasn't bothered with Arbitrations and Disruption and Orb Mothers. Just a Hydron main complaining about his one low level farming mission being farmable.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Xepthrichros

[(XBOX)Adaptabilty]

2 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

What are "crowd control focused encounters"? There's nothing you can't implement that needs CC which the players can't destroy en masse, not unless DE adds missions where enemy levels are so high that DPS and nuke frames are worthless. The other problem faced here is that it makes said frames and any non-CC frames worthless and narrows down frame diversity.

Back in the day, CC used to be the meta. I remember seeing this played out trying to do Phoenix Intercept tactical event where we had to fight level 100 enemies (before power creep made players crazy OP), and the only way to win was to lock the enemies down with CC. Trying that again today would be laughingly easy. However, barring rare events like Phoenix Intercept, DPS and support frames still weren't non-viable.

What I mean by CC based encounters are events in which you maybe need to restrict enemy movement, or enemy effectiveness as opposed to just killing them or that you need to subdue them before they can be eliminated, or just can't be killed. Something. That or update all cc frames with damage abilites. For instance Khora CCs enemies and still does a lot of damage with whipclaw.