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MrRixter

Can something be done about Saryn?

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*peeks in* Oh gawd this is still going eh? ....Neuerwinter, I hadn't seen that thread O.O;; We'll I hope that Saryn doesn't suffer the same fate. I stand by the fact she is not a broken frame. Perhaps a much easier solution to this issue, other than just crying for a nerf, is to actually have a looking for group system where players can sign up for an open squad and then just ask the pairing system to exclude certain frames. This way folks who don't want to play with Saryn can just exclude parties with them. I certainly don't want to see anymore frames nerfed into death because a select few people don't like them.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)RevenantRequiem said:

Saryn takes effort to wipe the map and we don't need any more changes to her. She's perfect.

About as much effort as blinking, sure. No worry though, Pablo even acknowledges how much of a mess she is and he did the latest rework. 

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Just make the enemies start spawning at level 300 instead of level 1.

Ba-zam.

Now everybody is weak in the onslaught of one-hit kill Kubrows on Earth's first exterminate mission.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, FaithRose said:

*peeks in* Oh gawd this is still going eh? ....Neuerwinter, I hadn't seen that thread O.O;; We'll I hope that Saryn doesn't suffer the same fate. I stand by the fact she is not a broken frame. Perhaps a much easier solution to this issue, other than just crying for a nerf, is to actually have a looking for group system where players can sign up for an open squad and then just ask the pairing system to exclude certain frames. This way folks who don't want to play with Saryn can just exclude parties with them. I certainly don't want to see anymore frames nerfed into death because a select few people don't like them.

If you have to exclude certain tools from matchmaking to make a good experience, that is absolutely a sign of something in disrepair. a frame being so powerful people would want to opt of matching with it just so they can play is not a good thing, not at all, it's definitely not something that should be getting left alone. that said, why do you assume the only alternative is ruin? do you think that of all non-nuke frames? do you think the likes of excal, wisp, wukong, nezha, nidus, nova, inaros, etc, and all dead or ruined frames? they're all less powerful than the stage saryn is at, and if bringing her below that stages make her ruined so would it mean they are. reality is nerfs aren't inherently bad, and they don't just ruin experiences contrary to stigma. as I just learned in a recent conversation in a different topic, the recent wukong rework which many people are loving and pushed wukong out of the least used frames roster was arguably a nerf, and yet the frame came away from it feeling so much better for it, and so much more enjoyable. Similar sort of happened with Excal way back when as well, though it took a few more steps to get through. Nerfs aren't a death sentences, they can open up possibilities, and sometimes being too powerful is worse for the overall experience and nonessential.  

Edited by Cubewano
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Am 2.8.2019 um 17:13 schrieb MrRixter:

I'm a fairly new player and today I got matched with a Saryn at my sortie. It was the first time that I felt bored in the game. There was nothing for me to do, everything was dying instantly all over the map so I just went afk and made a cup of tea. Whats the point of me trying to improve my frames and get all the mods, arcanes etc, when a frame exists which can nuke the whole map with no effort at all? I apologise if I'm wrong but from what I saw was a Saryn barely even moving.

I feel quite deflated right now and confused on how something so broken is allowed to exist in the game. Bare in my mind I'm quite new so I'm not aware if there are other broken frames, its just this Saryn was the first one I saw.

not again...

most mass control frame are already destroyed (like ember) with such threads. saryn is one of the last remaining mass control frame available and she does her job perfekt. you don't want to play with saryn? then don't do it. but stop talking about broken. 

or just have a short thought about how you wanna survive at lvl 100-200 enemies without mass controll frames, which rip of health and armor from enemies to make them killable. 

really, i can't read these threads any more...

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Saryn isn't necessary to invalidate a new player. Saryn is just a scapegoat. Any frame with AOE trivializes easy content, and anyone using an AOE weapon or melee weapon with quick movement are going to get most of the kills too. At Sortie level (given op's complaint) anyone can get 1/3+ kill participation even with a Saryn at defense, and any other mission type, blaming Saryn for getting all the kills is just a case of someone being slow, because something like Wukong is better at hogging up all the kills for most non-defense type missions over Saryn. His staff 1 shots everything even at level 150, combined with how quick he moves, it means Saryn gets nothing.

Honestly though, outside of Defense and ESO, I almost never see Saryn anyways.

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27 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

If you have to exclude certain tools from matchmaking to make a good experience, that is absolutely a sign of something in disrepair. a frame being so powerful people would want to opt of matching with it just so they can play is not a good thing, not at all, it's definitely not something that should be getting left alone. that said, why do you assume the only alternative is ruin? do you think that of all non-nuke frames? do you think the likes of excal, wisp, wukong, nezha, nidus, nova, inaros, etc, and all dead or ruined frames? they're all less powerful than the stage saryn is at, and if bringing her below that stages make her ruined so would it mean they are. reality is nerfs aren't inherently bad, and they don't just ruin experiences contrary to stigma. as I just learned in a recent conversation in a different topic, the recent wukong rework which many people are loving and pushed wukong out of the least used frames roster was arguably a nerf, and yet the frame came away from it feeling so much better for it, and so much more enjoyable. Similar sort of happened with Excal way back when as well, though it took a few more steps to get through. Nerfs aren't a death sentences, they can open up possibilities, and sometimes being too powerful is worse for the overall experience and nonessential.  

I personally don't feel that it is. There are other frames people don't like playing with.....Limbo.....Excalibro......Wukong(yes...wukong).....should they just be reworked and "nerfed" too? And I'm looking toward ruin because that's exactly what happened to Ember. Nerf doesn't exactly mean positive either and on top of it this WAS Saryn's rework. Apparently, she was much more overpowered prior to this change. My point is, changing the frame for the people who actually enjoy it isn't the answer either. As other users int he thread pointed out, each frame has a job....Saryn is power and I still don't follow the "too powerful" part. She is HEAVILY limited against corpus and if you have an energy leech in the room...no energy...no Saryn. I've seen Volt outperform Saryn on many occasions. I've even seen Equinox outperform her. My point is, if the problem is being match with them.....allow for more control over player matches. 

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2 minutes ago, FaithRose said:

I've seen Volt outperform Saryn on many occasions. I've even seen Equinox outperform her. 

Let's be real, your Trinity with your Opticor Vandal has outperformed many a Saryn in the past.

And your level 14 Frost Spectre outperforms all.

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18 minutes ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

not again...

most mass control frame are already destroyed (like ember) with such threads. saryn is one of the last remaining mass control frame available and she does her job perfekt. you don't want to play with saryn? then don't do it. but stop talking about broken. 

or just have a short thought about how you wanna survive at lvl 100-200 enemies without mass controll frames, which rip of health and armor from enemies to make them killable. 

really, i can't read these threads any more...

Ironically Ember is actually still fine for the aoe clear portion of her design, or as fine as she's ever been there, the aoe clear area isn't as weak as you paint it actually, and now it has scaling. That said, there is no reason for frames of that design to exist, nobody needs to be effortlessly cleaning rooms of enemies in a blink, burning out dozens and dozens of enemy npcs without even necessarily being aware of them, and otherwise just walking through the game while it largely takes care of itself, that's just boring, broken, and meaningless game design, and well sure maybe that's dismissable in a bubble, doesn't work so much in a co-operative online game. Not choosing those options doesn't remove them from the game, doesn't revert their impact to game designs, does not rebalance the game to a period where they don't exist, nor eject them from systems such as recruitment where they may remain an impact. Their reach is more than just their own, and their impact isn't just personal selection. 

and while this level of power isn't remotely necessary to survive at levels 100-200, i feel it more pertinent to ask why you think you have to perform at those levels? they aren't necessary levels to compete in, they aren't a default anywhere, they don't impede the games content or have really any grasp on the way you navigate the game, so why is it important you are able to compete against these arbitrary numbers? what is lost if you can't?

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1 minute ago, Cubewano said:

what is lost if you can't?

My ESO farming outside of eidolons for one, and how fast I can clear missions I'd reckon. 

I like Saryn as she is, but then again, I mostly play solo when I use her. Playing with pubs doesn't do much for me, so it's always been about how efficient can I be. 

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Posted (edited)
vor 5 Minuten schrieb Cubewano:

Ironically Ember is actually still fine for the aoe clear portion of her design, or as fine as she's ever been there, the aoe clear area isn't as weak as you paint it actually, and now it has scaling. That said, there is no reason for frames of that design to exist, nobody needs to be effortlessly cleaning rooms of enemies in a blink, burning out dozens and dozens of enemy npcs without even necessarily being aware of them, and otherwise just walking through the game while it largely takes care of itself, that's just boring, broken, and meaningless game design, and well sure maybe that's dismissable in a bubble, doesn't work so much in a co-operative online game. Not choosing those options doesn't remove them from the game, doesn't revert their impact to game designs, does not rebalance the game to a period where they don't exist, nor eject them from systems such as recruitment where they may remain an impact. Their reach is more than just their own, and their impact isn't just personal selection. 

and while this level of power isn't remotely necessary to survive at levels 100-200, i feel it more pertinent to ask why you think you have to perform at those levels? they aren't necessary levels to compete in, they aren't a default anywhere, they don't impede the games content or have really any grasp on the way you navigate the game, so why is it important you are able to compete against these arbitrary numbers? what is lost if you can't?

so, because you don't have to use these lvl for your own, no one should able to play on these lvl? did i get your right?

then why you think you can play these lvl? because some just have fun to play it.

to disable saryn (again! she already had a redesign!) will not make everything better. it will just make her unusable for her players.

 

and ember isn't fine. may she isn't bad in low level, but scaling isnt a good one and also she can't perform what she was able about before the redesign. so no, she isn't fine. its just a frame which is killed by redesign. which is why we don't see much of her on the battlefields

Edited by (PS4)NewcastleDisease
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23 minutes ago, FaithRose said:

I personally don't feel that it is. There are other frames people don't like playing with.....Limbo.....Excalibro......Wukong(yes...wukong).....should they just be reworked and "nerfed" too? 

Don't like playing them or don't like being grouped with? Because those are two very distinct and different conversations. Likewise is why they dislike playing as or with them. Is it purely aesthetic? Are they breaking a form of combat? Are they restricting play? Are they just an uninteresting role? There is nuance to these discussions, and precision. This isn't just some blanket I dislike something and that's all issue, it is a unique crossroad of issues that leads itself to this issue and conclusion. You can have this conversation about other frames if you'd like, or at least we can try, but it needs elaboration behind it if its to be meaningful. 

30 minutes ago, FaithRose said:

And I'm looking toward ruin because that's exactly what happened to Ember. 

And didn't happen to others. Why do you only want to see the failures? (which are likely temporary as is the pattern and only stretched out by issues like these) 

30 minutes ago, FaithRose said:

Nerf doesn't exactly mean positive either and on top of it this WAS Saryn's rework. Apparently, she was much more overpowered prior to this change.

Not accurate, Saryn was actually weaker before her rework, and to this day it's still unclear why she wound up with a buff for her changes given her state, but as it seems even the person re-balancing her was caught off guard by the end result it may have been accidental. He certainly wasn't fond of the outcome, he came back a second time to hot patch some of its more glaring issues from the sudden growth, and he's confident he'll come back again to clean up what he sees as a mess even more so there's that. Either way though, while yes this is the state of Saryn after a rework, she can still be reworked again in the future. As noted in a previous response, Excalibur saw multiple reworks before he became his current best version. A single rework doesn't mean the end of the road, and certainly isn't an argument against future change. 

30 minutes ago, FaithRose said:

My point is, changing the frame for the people who actually enjoy it isn't the answer either. 

That isn't really an option though is it? Frames don't exist in a vacuum, and their designs and powers affect the development of future content, and the balance of that content, they even affect the balance of other frames. Toggling them off as a personal pick doesn't undo those impacts, and doesn't put an end the designs they more or less necessitate by proxy of their existence. 

30 minutes ago, FaithRose said:

As other users int he thread pointed out, each frame has a job....Saryn is power and I still don't follow the "too powerful" part. She is HEAVILY limited against corpus and if you have an energy leech in the room...no energy...no Saryn. I've seen Volt outperform Saryn on many occasions. I've even seen Equinox outperform her. My point is, if the problem is being match with them.....allow for more control over player matches. 

Those are all problem frames to be frank, and you should take note that the only frames you put in comparison to her are other high powered nukes, but that doesn't really make an argument for her. Everything you listed poses the same list of issues, they're all problem children that need addressing, and neither one really safeguards the other. I'm also vaguely curious how you're struggling with the corpus as a Saryn, but that's a tad off point. 

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37 minutes ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

so, because you don't have to use these lvl for your own, no one should able to play on these lvl? did i get your right?

nowhere did i say that. 

38 minutes ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

then why you think you can play these lvl? because some just have fun to play it.

i don't think, i know, as per personal experience. why is this specific level range unique to that occasion, or more fun that other level ranges? 

40 minutes ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

to disable saryn (again! she already had a redesign!) will not make everything better. it will just make her unusable for her players.

she can have as many redesigns as she needs to get in a good and balanced spot, as is how the pursuit for balance goes. and what makes you think she will be unusable? frames that can do much less than her power wise are still fairly popular, some vastly more than her. do you think a majority of the roster unusable for that matter if you think nerfing saryn would do such to her?

43 minutes ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

and ember isn't fine. may she isn't bad in low level, but scaling isnt a good one and also she can't perform what she was able about before the redesign. so no, she isn't fine. its just a frame which is killed by redesign. which is why we don't see much of her on the battlefields

i agree she isn't fine, she scales terribly, and he ult is just a design mess that needs replacing, but for doing what she did in the past she still does that as fine as ever really. what makes you think she can't do what she did in the past? 

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48 minutes ago, sleepychewbacca said:

My ESO farming outside of eidolons for one, and how fast I can clear missions I'd reckon. 

I like Saryn as she is, but then again, I mostly play solo when I use her. Playing with pubs doesn't do much for me, so it's always been about how efficient can I be. 

With just Saryn changed? There are alternatives that can do just as well as she does for ESO presently so I'm sure you could adapt. If we changed the entire scale of the game in regards to aoe clear? Realistically (and ideally) ESO would be re-balanced to fit those changes so you farm would similarly be fine. The mission clear I can't say much for, but a lot of what frames like Saryn do is excessive and not truly impactful to the core mission for efficiencies sake so that probably wouldn't change all that much? It's just a lot of extra destruction that comes down more on team play than objective play. 

The only real loss I can see the loss in pick up efficiency from less enemy recycling (dying and respawning constantly) but since you play solo a lot I can only assume that's an area of efficiency you don't care for? Other efficiencies I'm not sure would really be impeded all that much? A few seconds more per mission maybe depending on the mission, for a more universally enjoyable game balance and maybe even better enemy/boss design? 

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On 2019-08-02 at 5:42 PM, IceColdHawk said:

This is simply not true. And i'm ashamed you come here after going afk and making a tea and then have the balls to complain of not getting any kills when you don't work for it.

I was just recently playing a kuva fortress survival as harrow with only a saryn in my team. After 40 mins she ended up with like 200 kills more than me, which is not surprising considering she's a frame dedicated for DPS. I still did get my fair share of a thousand kills though. As long as you have well modded weapons and are not too lazy about going and shooting stuff, you should never have problems in getting kills. But if it takes you over 10 seconds to kill a single heavy unit then i can see how a Saryn can leave somebody completely dry.

The point in this game is to get stronger and stronger to a point of not having to rely on DPS frames in order to deal DPS. It's up to you if you wanna reach this point or...leave because a damage frame is doing what they're supposed to do.

this. nidus main here. in sorties, regrdless of tier, I can squeeze a solid 27-33% dmg in the squad, with saryns too. saryn's ability kills over time, so you have a window of opportunity if you're fast. 

on a related note, another joke altogether is an mr27 kid who mesa-aimbots in index, crying that I 'steal his kills'. 

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An interesting solution to this is to have all of the factions 'evolve' to better combat the Tenno, with kill-squads being deployed against the most 'meta' playstyles. Anti-ability squads, like the Corpus have, but more powerful and durable, targeting more and wider range of abilites; super-agile with some form of protection against spread attacks from weapons; very good duelists who will laugh at the slide-attack smash combo of whips.

I don't know. Something to liven up the game, I guess.

Or we could just make every single enemy a nullifier with Azoth attacks. That could work, too.

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Just now, Cubewano said:

With just Saryn changed? There are alternatives that can do just as well as she does for ESO presently so I'm sure you could adapt. If we changed the entire scale of the game in regards to aoe clear? Realistically (and ideally) ESO would be re-balanced to fit those changes so you farm would similarly be fine. The mission clear I can't say much for, but a lot of what frames like Saryn do is excessive and not truly impactful to the core mission for efficiencies sake so that probably wouldn't change all that much? It's just a lot of extra destruction that comes down more on team play than objective play. 

The only real loss I can see the loss in pick up efficiency from less enemy recycling (dying and respawning constantly) but since you play solo a lot I can only assume that's an area of efficiency you don't care for? Other efficiencies I'm not sure would really be impeded all that much? A few seconds more per mission maybe depending on the mission, for a more universally enjoyable game balance and maybe even better enemy/boss design? 

Mostly for my old stubborn mind where once I find something that works for me, I like sticking around with it. I do understand the concerns for room-clear frames, and I'm not entirely against such concerns.

However, what I take issue with (and I'm not saying you're such), is the segment of the community that tries to push the game into a different version of what Warframe is or has set itself out to be. I personally feel that taking the time to recruit like-minded players would help, while letting users like me indulge in the power-fantasy it gives, etc. 

But you do raise some thoughtful points, so I can go digest that for a bit. 

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5 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

Don't like playing them or don't like being grouped with? ...

Going to do the best I can here to reply to each point.

1) They don't want to be in a group with them. Some players feel they in some way shape or form, limit the group or inhibit game play with their skills. 

2) I look at the failures for the same reason you look only at the success. 

3) Where did you get that Saryn was weaker before the rework? Cause that doesn't appear to be the case according to others.....

I'm not saying re-works don't happen...but calling for a rework because something doesn't suit your play style is kinda short sighted. In my book she is a beautiful frame and a fantastic concept. I'm sorry some people don't like things that can nuke a whole room, but others do. I personally appreciate the crowd control. I ask the same question, why is a nerf the only option people see? I stand by the person who said perhaps making everything else stronger is also an option.

4) See above. No the frames don't exist on their own but they all have a place. Saryn happens to be a nuke goddess....that's what she does. 

5) Mhm. I am mentioning other nuke frames because I am confused (as many others are) as to why Saryn takes so much attention for her skill and none of these get put in the fire as much as she does. Again, I don't see a problem with any of those frames either....they are best as what they do.....Saryn isn't for every mission anymore than Ivara is. As for the corpus....nullifiers kill spores.

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Posted (edited)
vor 25 Minuten schrieb Cubewano:

she can have as many redesigns as she needs to get in a good and balanced spot, as is how the pursuit for balance goes. and what makes you think she will be unusable? frames that can do much less than her power wise are still fairly popular, some vastly more than her. do you think a majority of the roster unusable for that matter if you think nerfing saryn would do such to her?

redesigning nezha also crippled him for his players. it was awful to rearange him and make him playable again. still it's not that good as he was. and why? because some guys was crying aboout his halo.. which is his 3rd ability... very freaky because rhinos 2nd is more durable and harder as nezhas halo was. so it makes no sense to do this. also you had to switch your whole playstyle. just an example on what redesign does.

and saryn is already redesigned. her power is already restricted. yes, you can swipe an entire map with pressing a single button - if the enemies are low level enough, are not corpus and you had just this single movement modded.  and - if you get no energy, you still suck up. so whats exactly is the problem with her now? that some players are angry because they get smaller killrates? wuhu - may they should suggest to switch there frame settings to a more powerful one. sorry but i know enough frame which outpowers a saryn if right modded (and you also need a right modded saryn for one kill). 

 

Zitat

i agree she isn't fine, she scales terribly, and he ult is just a design mess that needs replacing, but for doing what she did in the past she still does that as fine as ever really. what makes you think she can't do what she did in the past? 

ember before the rework was a mass destruction frame. nuking out whole maps without problems over time. now?  energy drain gets to shorten that out. yes you can mod her to use just this single ability - and then you're out of luck if you get no energy. sound familiar to saryn? it is. that why i say: saryn do not need any rework (again). she is fine as she is. beside that she has other abilities than just her 4th. 

 

it can't be the solution to kill frames just because some player are pi!?ed of for there killing rates. if a frame do not fit your playstayle, don't play it.. 

 

Edited by (PS4)NewcastleDisease
typo

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On 2019-08-02 at 5:13 PM, MrRixter said:

I'm a fairly new player and today I got matched with a Saryn at my sortie. It was the first time that I felt bored in the game. There was nothing for me to do, everything was dying instantly all over the map so I just went afk and made a cup of tea. Whats the point of me trying to improve my frames and get all the mods, arcanes etc, when a frame exists which can nuke the whole map with no effort at all? I apologise if I'm wrong but from what I saw was a Saryn barely even moving.

I feel quite deflated right now and confused on how something so broken is allowed to exist in the game. Bare in my mind I'm quite new so I'm not aware if there are other broken frames, its just this Saryn was the first one I saw.

Youre trolling, sorry, but really no.

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Posted (edited)
vor 28 Minuten schrieb Cubewano:

With just Saryn changed? There are alternatives that can do just as well as she does for ESO presently so I'm sure you could adapt. If we changed the entire scale of the game in regards to aoe clear? Realistically (and ideally) ESO would be re-balanced to fit those changes so you farm would similarly be fine. The mission clear I can't say much for, but a lot of what frames like Saryn do is excessive and not truly impactful to the core mission for efficiencies sake so that probably wouldn't change all that much? It's just a lot of extra destruction that comes down more on team play than objective play. 

The only real loss I can see the loss in pick up efficiency from less enemy recycling (dying and respawning constantly) but since you play solo a lot I can only assume that's an area of efficiency you don't care for? Other efficiencies I'm not sure would really be impeded all that much? A few seconds more per mission maybe depending on the mission, for a more universally enjoyable game balance and maybe even better enemy/boss design? 

and what if you like to play saryn? yeah funny question hu? 

but some people (me for example) likes to play with her because she is a real good frame. not because she has her 4th ability. because she is a very fine arranged frame. to rework that will rip that off.

and beside that: if so many frame can do the same: what we are talking about than? do we have to rework them all too? no? then why we need to rework saryn?

Edited by (PS4)NewcastleDisease
typo again
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3 minutes ago, ErratusEnigma said:

An interesting solution to this is to have all of the factions 'evolve' to better combat the Tenno, with kill-squads being deployed against the most 'meta' playstyles. Anti-ability squads, like the Corpus have, but more powerful and durable, targeting more and wider range of abilites; super-agile with some form of protection against spread attacks from weapons; very good duelists who will laugh at the slide-attack smash combo of whips.

This might be a fun system, though I'm not sure how effective it they might be considering hard CC abilities or immortal/invisible frames.

 

Personally, what I'd do with Saryn is keep her current mechanics, but implement some kind of system that more or less limits her mass destruction to weaker enemies - lancers, crewmen, chargers, but leaving heavier troops more or less unscathed - things like Heavy Gunner, Techs, Ancients. Perhaps based on their base amount of Armour or shields (so, possibly infested would lack any means of dealing with Saryn, but I'm not exactly perfect.) so that way she can't completely erase a map of enemies, but is still a very useful and powerful frame.

I'm honestly not that bothered with power as long as it maintains gameplay, and Saryn is on that borderline. She still has fair bit of gameplay on her end (spore management), but she still has a tendency to both wipe it out for others, and be effective enough to remove all obstacles making any defensive deficiencies she may have somewhat moot. If heavies could withstand her plague though, that kills two birds - other players have more stuff to do, and Saryn does have to watch her back.

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3 minutes ago, FaithRose said:

1) They don't want to be in a group with them. Some players feel they in some way shape or form, limit the group or inhibit game play with their skills. 

How? (for each frame individually) Remember, elaboration is key. This is a very contextualized sort of affair. 

3 minutes ago, FaithRose said:

2) I look at the failures for the same reason you look only at the success. 

I don't only look at the successes, and have openly acknowledged and addressed failings presently and in the past. 

3 minutes ago, FaithRose said:

3) Where did you get that Saryn was weaker before the rework? Cause that doesn't appear to be the case according to others.....

From being around for both versions, Saryn wasn't bad in the past either, but she scaled far worse, and even had less utility. She was mostly niche in the past, good for low level clears and mostly just that.  

3 minutes ago, FaithRose said:

I'm not saying re-works don't happen...but calling for a rework because something doesn't suit your play style is kinda short sighted. In my book she is a beautiful frame and a fantastic concept. I'm sorry some people don't like things that can nuke a whole room, but others do. I personally appreciate the crowd control. I ask the same question, why is a nerf the only option people see? I stand by the person who said perhaps making everything else stronger is also an option.

You have ignored everything I've said up to this point if you think that is the premise of this argument. Please re-read my past responses for clarity on why a rebalance is warranted, or at least why I feel it is. 

3 minutes ago, FaithRose said:

4) See above. No the frames don't exist on their own but they all have a place. Saryn happens to be a nuke goddess....that's what she does. 

If that is her place, then no other places can exist. 

3 minutes ago, FaithRose said:

5) Mhm. I am mentioning other nuke frames because I am confused (as many others are) as to why Saryn takes so much attention for her skill and none of these get put in the fire as much as she does. Again, I don't see a problem with any of those frames either....they are best as what they do.....Saryn isn't for every mission anymore than Ivara is. As for the corpus....nullifiers kill spores.

She is the least situation and lowest effort of them, she's also the most popular, so naturally encounters with her are the most common. The op in specific for this thread clearly hasn't been around long, so they don't know how many problem frames are out there, just that the scale for the problem itself exists and that Saryn was their first encounter with it. And the best of what they do is invalidate a majority of the game, ruining game balance and crushing co-operative play. The only mission they aren't for is missions that have to specifically exempt them from competing more or less due to how overwhelming they are everywhere else. If frames aren't meant to be for all missions, then Saryn and frames like her are glowing standouts for breaking that rule. And have you considered maybe killing the nullifiers? Are you like only using her spores? 

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

and what if you like to play saryn? yeah funny question hu? 

but some people (me for example) likes to play with her because she is a real good frame. not because she has her 4th ability. because she is a very fine arranged frame. to rework that will rip that off.

and beside that: if so many frame can do the same: what we are talking about than? do we have to rework them all too? no? then why we need to rework saryn?

Then you play her? Ideally under the state of the later instance, which is what I'm for, where she'd function perfectly fine. 

Nobody is saying her playstyle has to change, just the extent it can go to. If you truly just enjoy her because of her aesthetic / kit flow there's nothing saying that has to change. Not to say you couldn't similarly enjoy if she changed either, people certainly like Wukong now more than in the past, albeit him being technically weaker for it. 

Yes we'd have to rework all that apply, at least if we're intent on actually solving the issue.

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-08-02 at 4:13 PM, MrRixter said:

I'm a fairly new player and today I got matched with a Saryn at my sortie. It was the first time that I felt bored in the game. There was nothing for me to do, everything was dying instantly all over the map so I just went afk and made a cup of tea. Whats the point of me trying to improve my frames and get all the mods, arcanes etc, when a frame exists which can nuke the whole map with no effort at all? I apologise if I'm wrong but from what I saw was a Saryn barely even moving.

I feel quite deflated right now and confused on how something so broken is allowed to exist in the game. Bare in my mind I'm quite new so I'm not aware if there are other broken frames, its just this Saryn was the first one I saw.

You do realise what this post sounds like?

"I'm new and I've just seen a player in one mission who has been playing longer than me and thus is more powerful. But I don't really like that. Nerf it."

That's honestly what your post sounds like. I'm sorry but coming into a game and expecting players who have been playing before you to somehow come back down to your level is not only arrogant, but also very selfish.

The part where you say "whats the point" is the part that I'm struggling with the most. The point is right in front of you; Saryn. You get the mods and arcances so you can one day be as powerful as her. That's the whole point of playing the game. I don't know where you have come from before, but that is how Warframe works. Mods make you extremely powerful and they always have done. The fact you don't see that and instead want to just nerf Saryn because you got bored in one mission and can't see how cool it would be to work towards that Saryn's power level is worrying.

It would only be broken if Saryn was like that from the get-go, but she isn't. And yes, considering your definition of broken, there are plenty of frames/guns out there that would qualify for that label in your eyes.

I mean could you imagine if this is the attitude all new players had when they saw something powerful?

"Wow that gun kills loads of enemies in one shot, but my unmodded MK-Braton can't even kill one in good time. That makes me bored. Nerf it"

"Wow that polearm can sepreate an entire platoon from their bottom halves while my unmodded Skana can't even open a tin-can. I'm bored again. Nerf it."

This is not a good post. At all.

Edited by TheGodofWiFi
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