Simple, short, and effective Vauban Rework

[Maka.Bones]

I honestly enjoy playing vauban a lot, even though I don't play him as much as I should. With that being said, I don't think he needs much more to keep up with the current game scaling and mechanics.

Honestly vauban just needs:

1. Abilities that synergize together

2. a straight up "grenade" like the ones the corpus units use to oneshot us,

3. the ability to cancel out nullifiers since they absolutely kill his entire kit/theme,

4. longer range for his vortex--and better damage--so that he's able to use it together with bastille (throws it inside bastille, and succs enemies into bastille so they're incapacitated).

Add those things, along with more "ability synergies" that can work dynamically for some spicy effects and *boom* you have a great and improved vauban at minimal changes.

 

Passive: Amazing. It works great with the rest of his kit.

Tesla: Could be better, but I honestly think It should be a part of his "utility belt" mine layer, since it already works as a mine.

Suggestion: *replace it with a straight up "grenade"* that can change between different IPS & Elemental damage types. Different damage types can synergize differently with his other abilities or together. Move tesla onto his "minelayer" power wheel, since it already behaves like a mine.

Grenade: Deals 1k damage, 5m range, has a power wheel that lets vauban pick between all 4 element types, or blast + puncture + slash (5 grenades total)

• Allow us to combine or change different element types for each grenade, so players can create "gas cloud" grenades, or "viral + slash" grenades.

Minelayer: Some of these are actually rather useful in the correct setting (Tripwire is great for infested, and shred is great for grineer). But other ones like the bounce bomb.... why is the bounce mine a thing? The only thing the bounce mine is effective at, is griefing/trolling players or memes. 

        Suggestions: 

• Bounce bomb: Replace it with tesla.  Make tesla actually proc shock. (100% status chance, or at least 75% if it's ticking multiple times)
• Concussion bomb: I would also make "Concussion" mine synergize with the vauban grenades i suggested for his first. Make it so that based on the grenades he uses to buff the concussion trap, it would also blind, open enemies to finishers or disable nullifier bubbles. (make it THE ONLY warframe ability that can make nullifiers inept, and make it so that it only triggers on nullifier bubbles).  Could also work like an actual flashbang, instead of a mine. 
• Shred: Increase the base armor-stripping to 50%,and let it re-apply the armor stripping multiple times across a duration. That way it can continue to strip armor each tick--The armor stripping needs to continue reducing armor, and the armor stripping should continue stacking with power str
• Tripwire: Make it permanent, or increase the duration to 180s, since there aren't many situations where it works well. It's very effective in the right situations, but it's also only effective in      those *very specific* situations. So I can't see why it should have a duration, since it's only ideal for niche things. Or replace it with a deployable cover. 
  •  You could make Tripwire synergize so well with so many other abilities. It could be used to create a trip-mine, if you use this along with other mines or grenades. Or even a trip-triggered effect with vortex or bastille.  You could easily make this work like C-4

Bastille: Already extremely effective and helpful. Though it would be nice if it decreased the damage of enemies shooting into bastille, or inside bastille 

Vortex: Great ability, great augment, just needs some tweaks.

Suggestion: Just needs more damage, longer base duration, and range so that we can use it in tandem with bastille. The suction needs to happen as fast as Nidus' "get over here" and range needs to spread further than bastille, so we can actually use it to attract enemies into bastille, while damaging them with our vortex.

• Allow us better synergies/animations for throwing grenades, or shred/concussion mines into the vortex. Better AoE synergizing effects like delayed explosions, shredding armor while they're caught, or cancelling out nullifier bubbles.

• Bring back the old vortex damage. Have the "vortex" be a weaponized miniature dwarf star that sucks everything in via gravity. Have the augment synergize with the grenades, so when you throw more "neutron stars" inside and toss a grenade, it'll turn into a miniature black hole. The black hole wouldn't be indefinite thanks to hawking-radiation (it would last as long as it's being "fed" but otherwise it would eventually fizzle out, if it's not being fed more matter). Add radiation, heat, and impact (impact, because of gravitational pressure) damage to the existing magnetic damage, and allow it to proc those status effects.

Alt, alt suggestion: remove both bounce mines and tesla, add vortex onto his mine wheel, and make his 4th ability an exalted "grenade launcher" that can switch ammo types based on his grenades, along with his mods.  Let it double as a riot shield, so it protects him from splash damage if he shoots too close.  S.W.A.T. Vauban, or Riot Vauban

Edited August 5, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Circle_of_Psi]

His entire kit is getting removed, the powers he has now, he won't have. hopefully

 

They're all useless

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

He still has too much overlap in his kit. 

The only simple improvement for Vauban would be the (delete) button. Hopefully DE has something better in store for him than that.

[Maka.Bones]

1 minute ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

His entire kit is getting removed, the powers he has now, he won't have. hopefully

 

They're all useless

 

Just now, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

He still has too much overlap in his kit. 

The only simple improvement for Vauban would be the (delete) button. Hopefully DE has something better in store for him than that.

Yeah, well I definitely disagree with you guys there. 

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

 

12 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

I don't play him as much as I should

 

1 minute ago, Maka.Bones said:

Yeah, well I definitely disagree with you guys there

Then you should play him some more. Hehe

I used to play him tons back in the day, until CC stopped being good. In his current kit he has several overlapping stun/hold mechanics that don't benefit each other and are easily interchangeable based on a dice roll. 

He needs a complex rework. I don't know that he needs a full kit replacement, but a "simple" rework alone cannot fix him.

[Circle_of_Psi]

1 minute ago, Maka.Bones said:

Yeah, well I definitely disagree with you guys there. 

disagree all you want, people need to accept the fact that some CC (Like Vauban) is dead, point is, his kit is getting reworked and changed, his old powers won't exist anymore. Given Scott is the one who is doing his rework, don't expect much hopes for him.

Vauban will stay the least used frame in-game.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Any “simple” change to Vauban will not be enough to make him viable. None of his abilities help him keep up with the other frames. He needs drastic changes and that’s exactly what DE is giving him.

[Maka.Bones]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Any “simple” change to Vauban will not be enough to make him viable. None of his abilities help him keep up with the other frames. He needs drastic changes and that’s exactly what DE is giving him.

 

Just now, Circle_of_Psi said:

disagree all you want, people need to accept the fact that some CC (Like Vauban) is dead, point is, his kit is getting reworked and changed, his old powers won't exist anymore. Given Scott is the one who is doing his rework, don't expect much hopes for him.

Vauban will stay the least used frame in-game.

 

Just now, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

 

 

Then you should play him some more. Hehe

I used to play him tons back in the day, until CC stopped being good. In his current kit he has several overlapping stun/hold mechanics that don't benefit each other and are easily interchangeable based on a dice roll. 

He needs a complex rework. I don't know that he needs a full kit replacement, but a "simple" rework alone cannot fix him.

Did you guys even read the original post? 

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

2 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

 

 

Did you guys even read the original post? 

Yes, but you kept Tesla, Trip Wire, Bastille and Vortex. 

Trip Wire is only useful with specific builds, and the other 3 are exactly the dice roll abilities I mentioned previously. They serve the same CC purpose, with comparable levels of function.

[Circle_of_Psi]

Just now, Maka.Bones said:

Did you guys even read the original post? 

We did, you just need to understand that a simple rework is not good enough.

 

 

[Maka.Bones]

51 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

We did, you just need to understand that a simple rework is not good enough.

 

 

 

52 minutes ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

Yes, but you kept Tesla, Trip Wire, Bastille and Vortex. 

Trip Wire is only useful with specific builds, and the other 3 are exactly the dice roll abilities I mentioned previously. They serve the same CC purpose, with comparable levels of function.

Ok tesla does kinda suck, i'll give you that. 

Bastille is incredibly useful still

and votex? Dude if it had longer range, you can just spam votex and shoot ALL enemies with a punch-through shotgun, or just throw a grenade in there to blow everything up. They could even make a grenade turn the vortex into a black hole, like some sci-fi anime. 

Literally just a grenade with some synergies, and the ability to cancel out nullifiers... and he would have some insane dynamic & damage potentials. 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

Alternatively, they could remove both bounce mines and tesla. Add vortex onto his mine wheel, and make his 4th ability an exalted "grenade launcher" that can switch ammo types based on his grenades, along with his mods. 

 

Give him an exalted tonkor, with zero self-damage. Kek

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[PopTartZombie]

Only reason I don't use Vauban often is because he looks like those fish dudes on Manaan in SW: KOTOR.

[Maka.Bones]

2 hours ago, PopTartZombie said:

Only reason I don't use Vauban often is because he looks like those fish dudes on Manaan in SW: KOTOR.

Damn.... i have no reply for that lmfao

[(PSN)yandelyandel2000]

Suggestions/ Feedback on original suggestion, not alt:

Instead of adding a grenade for nullifiers, I think it would be better to rework them. Like give them a charge mechanic and provide enemy sense like "incoming Charged Shot", but only if you have the enemy sense mod on. Nullifiers after all should be some sort of challenge to heavy CC. 

By increasing range of Vortex (I suppose the same as Bastille) you will make him that much more effective in whatever Bounce and Triplaser would be in, so those could be removed. But the main purpose of Bastille is that it has higher range than Vortex, so these two would be used differently- not with your rework though. You would need Bastille to do something more useful like adding damage vulnerability (like his passive) or damage reduction to be used instead of Vortex all the time. More damage would probably be better because the range of Vortex would provide more survivability.

Would be even better if damage in Vortex spreads though every enemy affected by it to take into account map design. Enemies can get stuck which forces Vauban to move to their position. 

To make him more useful in Infested mission with all their auras or the Void, you can make Vortex have a vaccum effect that would take in nearby mines (Vaccum would have smaller range than Vortex). Concuss explodes because there will always be an enemy in Vortex with its range and possibly get rid of the aura. Vaccum also has synergy with Shred because thats what you would want to do ideally when dealing with armored units. 

Also the buff to Shred should be enough to remove Blind Rage, 99% strength. Not too sure if it would adding 10% would be enough, idk. The duration is also low at 4sec, so it should be buffed to 2x-3x 

With Tesla, would be better if was just like concuss. Throw it and it pulses with electricity effect, of course with its own charges.

It seems like you are missing an ability (maybe the first?). I suggest a mine/grenade that increases enemy movement speed by at least 50% and reduces enemy accuracy or disables weapons, because his effectiveness heavily depends on enemy movement and they move pretty slow. His abilities would capture more things much faster without the need for duration. Debuff to enemies is for more survivability and preventing enemies from shooting while in Vortex. 

 

 

[Maka.Bones]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Suggestions/ Feedback on original suggestion, not alt:

Instead of adding a grenade for nullifiers, I think it would be better to rework them. Like give them a charge mechanic and provide enemy sense like "incoming Charged Shot", but only if you have the enemy sense mod on. Nullifiers after all should be some sort of challenge to heavy CC. 

By increasing range of Vortex (I suppose the same as Bastille) you will make him that much more effective in whatever Bounce and Triplaser would be in, so those could be removed. But the main purpose of Bastille is that it has higher range than Vortex, so these two would be used differently- not with your rework though. You would need Bastille to do something more useful like adding damage vulnerability (like his passive) or damage reduction to be used instead of Vortex all the time. More damage would probably be better because the range of Vortex would provide more survivability.

Would be even better if damage in Vortex spreads though every enemy affected by it to take into account map design. Enemies can get stuck which forces Vauban to move to their position. 

To make him more useful in Infested mission with all their auras or the Void, you can make Vortex have a vaccum effect that would take in nearby mines (Vaccum would have smaller range than Vortex). Concuss explodes because there will always be an enemy in Vortex with its range and possibly get rid of the aura. Vaccum also has synergy with Shred because thats what you would want to do ideally when dealing with armored units. 

Also the buff to Shred should be enough to remove Blind Rage, 99% strength. Not too sure if it would adding 10% would be enough, idk. The duration is also low at 4sec, so it should be buffed to 2x-3x 

With Tesla, would be better if was just like concuss. Throw it and it pulses with electricity effect, of course with its own charges.

It seems like you are missing an ability (maybe the first?). I suggest a mine/grenade that increases enemy movement speed by at least 50% and reduces enemy accuracy or disables weapons, because his effectiveness heavily depends on enemy movement and they move pretty slow. His abilities would capture more things much faster without the need for duration. Debuff to enemies is for more survivability and preventing enemies from shooting while in Vortex. 

 

 

Not missing an ability. I replaced the first ability (tesla) with just straightout damage grenades.

 

Btw, what about being able to throw mines/grenades at bastille? or using vortex along with bastille, to get enemies attracted to it? The thing about bastille and vortex is that I see vortex as offensive, meanwhile bastille is defensive. 

 

Thank you for the pointers btw.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[(PSN)yandelyandel2000]

 

37 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Not missing an ability. I replaced the first ability (tesla) with just straightout damage grenades.

Oh didn't notice

 

37 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Btw, what about being able to throw mines/grenades at bastille? or using vortex along with bastille, to get enemies attracted to it? The thing about bastille and vortex is that I see vortex as offensive, meanwhile bastille is defensive. 

Giving Vortex more range would make it both offensive and defensive, so it blurs the line. Bastille and Vortex would then be a truly overlapping ability (unless Bastille has its own effect like adding damage vulnerbility). The abilities won't be layered as I guess you mean with having one defense and the other offense. Thats how I view it.

It will always be better just to throw Vortex on its own and then grenades in it and shoot everything in it, in this rework.  I can't imagine some form of attraction when everything is made immobile, so I still don't see the layering of the abilities. The speed boost grenade sounds more like an attraction device as they can move to your location faster and be killed faster through placement of CC. Of course I could be misunderstanding what you mean 🙃

Edited August 3, 2019 by (PS4)yandelyandel2000

[Maka.Bones]

2 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

 

Oh didn't notice

 

Giving Vortex more range would make it both offensive and defensive, so it blurs the line. Bastille and Vortex would then be a truly overlapping ability (unless Bastille has its own effect like adding damage vulnerbility). The abilities won't be layered as I guess you mean with having one defense and the other offense. Thats how I view it.

It will always be better just to throw Vortex on its own and then grenades in it and shoot everything in it, in this rework.  I can't imagine some form of attraction when everything is made immobile, so I still don't see the layering of the abilities. The speed boost grenade sounds more like an attraction device as they can move to your location faster and be killed faster through placement of CC. Of course I could be misunderstanding what you mean 🙃

so vortex doesn't incapacitate enemies, does it?

I just imagine throwing up bastille, and then throwing a vortex in the middle, or by its walls so enemies get sucked into it faster. Bastille incapacitates them, so it amplifies vortex's damage. 

 

I didn't suggest a speed boost grenade though?  What did I say that sounds like that?

Edited August 3, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[(PSN)yandelyandel2000]

5 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

so vortex doesn't incapacitate enemies, does it?

I just imagine throwing up bastille, and then throwing a vortex in the middle, or by its walls so enemies get sucked into it faster. Bastille incapacitates them, so it amplifies vortex's damage. 

 

I didn't suggest a speed boost grenade though?  What did I say that sounds like that?

I'm not too sure, it would make sense though- sometimes enemies still shoot you while in Vortex. Vortex does ticks of 25 magnetic damage and thats irrelevant, only good to know if you caught something. A 25% boost to damage would be negligible. To your weapons, its good.

Btw in my head Vortex has double range to be equal to that of Bastille because that would be the next step in buffing the range. Or at least very close to 12m. 

I imagined that too, but I was focusing on the attraction part you said. The first scenario will be better just to throw Vortex because it has the range of Bastille or close to that of Bastille, with the bonus of killing everything and its not capped- so it would be better than Bastille. The second scenario is impossible to do as Bastille can't take whats in Vortex, unless you don't kill whats in Vortex and spam Bastille in one position so that enemies walk into Bastille after Vortex ends. You'd have to make Bastille take priority over Vortex, right now Vortex takes priority. And probably switch the two around in terms of 3rd and 4th skill. If you do that, I think what you imagined would be made. 

The speed boost grenade is a suggestion of mine to create attraction in my first post. But I was thinking of an always run grenade, not a grenade that just increases enemy shooting/running animation. Similar to Nekros Terrify but enemies go the opposite way, enemies go to you. Or like one of Ivara's noise arrows. 

[Maka.Bones]

22 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

I'm not too sure, it would make sense though- sometimes enemies still shoot you while in Vortex. Vortex does ticks of 25 magnetic damage and thats irrelevant, only good to know if you caught something. A 25% boost to damage would be negligible. To your weapons, its good.

Btw in my head Vortex has double range to be equal to that of Bastille because that would be the next step in buffing the range. Or at least very close to 12m. 

I imagined that too, but I was focusing on the attraction part you said. The first scenario will be better just to throw Vortex because it has the range of Bastille or close to that of Bastille, with the bonus of killing everything and its not capped- so it would be better than Bastille. The second scenario is impossible to do as Bastille can't take whats in Vortex, unless you don't kill whats in Vortex and spam Bastille in one position so that enemies walk into Bastille after Vortex ends. You'd have to make Bastille take priority over Vortex, right now Vortex takes priority. And probably switch the two around in terms of 3rd and 4th skill. If you do that, I think what you imagined would be made. 

The speed boost grenade is a suggestion of mine to create attraction in my first post. But I was thinking of an always run grenade, not a grenade that just increases enemy shooting/running animation. Similar to Nekros Terrify but enemies go the opposite way, enemies go to you. Or like one of Ivara's noise arrows. 

You mean like a speed nova? But what use would that have? Survival or defense runs? self-speed buff? I could see the uses as a grenade AoE (like some sort of gas-drug stimulant?) but mines or grenades? or both, like i was suggesting to use tripwire along with grenades?

 

And i'm imagining throwing a vortex inside a bastille, and enemies getting incapacitated by bastille and damaged by vortex

Edited August 4, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[PhazonMagala]

I think Bastille and Vortex  should be turned into 1 ability, regular Bastille + Vortex in the middle, maybe it's "too much" idk

for his new ability I was thinking of something like an Armor Rampart, damage reduction + big guns but very slow

 

[Maka.Bones]

50 minutes ago, PhazonMagala said:

I think Bastille and Vortex  should be turned into 1 ability, regular Bastille + Vortex in the middle, maybe it's "too much" idk

for his new ability I was thinking of something like an Armor Rampart, damage reduction + big guns but very slow

 

OH THAT WOULD BE COOL!!!

I was already considering of having his "exalted grenade launcher" also double as a riot shield (to protect from the splash damage). I'd prefer a grenade launcher since he's already a ball handler.

or just make him into a pokemon trainer that throws pokeballs at enemies and releases beasts onto his enemies. x'D  I'm kidding about this last part, but I'd love a rampart grenade launcher. Or just a grenade launcher with a riot shield. 

[(PSN)yandelyandel2000]

1 hour ago, Maka.Bones said:

You mean like a speed nova? But what use would that have? Survival or defense runs? self-speed buff? I could see the uses as a grenade AoE (like some sort of gas-drug stimulant?) but mines or grenades? or both, like i was suggesting to use tripwire along with grenades?

 

And i'm imagining throwing a vortex inside a bastille, and enemies getting incapacitated by bastille and damaged by vortex

But Vortex right now deals hardly any damage unless you want to change that. 

Not like speedva, it would be like Nekros Terrify but they move opposite way, to you. With speedva, enemies just do everything faster but with the grenade enemies just move faster without shooting and goes to the grenade just like Ivaras noise arrow or like Khoras Ensare but with more range. 

I'm saying that his method of throwing fortifications is heavily affected by how slow enemies are right now or by not having enemy sense equipped, whereby you have to spam to keep it up. If everything runs faster to a point then his CC would capture more (if you place a vortex or bastille on this grenade) or you can diverge them to a point away from the objective to be CC'd later. I would imagine this being used in most game modes, possibly every. 

[(PSN)yandelyandel2000]

1 hour ago, PhazonMagala said:

I think Bastille and Vortex  should be turned into 1 ability, regular Bastille + Vortex in the middle, maybe it's "too much" idk

for his new ability I was thinking of something like an Armor Rampart, damage reduction + big guns but very slow

 

Bastille + Vortex would be better than Repelling Bastille, so that aug should be removed. Its not too much. Maybe Vortex should have more range, at most 9-11m so that enemies beyond the cap of Bastille would be more reliably CC'd. 

Nice ideas. DR is always is good to have. I like the idea more of Vauban remaining squishy but with more effective CC, but I really don't expect that to happen. 

[Maka.Bones]

10 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

But Vortex right now deals hardly any damage unless you want to change that. 

Not like speedva, it would be like Nekros Terrify but they move opposite way, to you. With speedva, enemies just do everything faster but with the grenade enemies just move faster without shooting and goes to the grenade just like Ivaras noise arrow or like Khoras Ensare but with more range. 

I'm saying that his method of throwing fortifications is heavily affected by how slow enemies are right now or by not having enemy sense equipped, whereby you have to spam to keep it up. If everything runs faster to a point then his CC would capture more (if you place a vortex or bastille on this grenade) or you can diverge them to a point away from the objective to be CC'd later. I would imagine this being used in most game modes, possibly every. 

Ok, that makes strategic sense. 

 

9 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Bastille + Vortex would be better than Repelling Bastille, so that aug should be removed. Its not too much. Maybe Vortex should have more range, at most 9-11m so that enemies beyond the cap of Bastille would be more reliably CC'd. 

Nice ideas. DR is always is good to have. I like the idea more of Vauban remaining squishy but with more effective CC, but I really don't expect that to happen. 

Yeah, who needs to be tanky if you just have effective control of the battlefield and can mitigate damage by controlling your enemies or killing them fast enough?

And yeah, part of my suggestion for vortex is to buff the damage. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Maka.Bones