Insane Nakak Pearl Costs

[CuChulainnWD]

2 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

The difference is that in nearly all the other grind, you can do things to mitigate it.  You can do better at the mission to get it done faster, or to kill more things in the fixed mission time (or bring Nekros or Pilfering Khora or Hydroid to and a treasure cat to potentially get more stuff from the same enemies.)  You can team with like minded players to open the same relic and increase the odds of getting the Prime components you want quickly.  You can "git gud" and kill more than one set of Eidolons, or bring a meta build to down Profit Taker faster.

With this event, you don't even have to *participate* as long as you don't die so much that your score ends up negative.  The ONLY thing that matters is the five minute mission timer.  Which means that getting anything from Nakak has an unavoidable, uninteresting, tedious time gate.  You only want the Captura scene?  Great, that's a minimum of 100 minutes of your weekend.  Nothing you do will speed that up.  You can play the hell out of the mission, or you can go watch Netflix and just restart the mission every five minutes.  Because it makes NO DIFFERENCE.  Nothing you do will make it go faster.  And during those 100 minutes, you can't do anything else in-game.  If you only have limited playtime per day (which many people who have real jobs and families and other non-game obligations do) then you have to spend your limited time doing something where NOTHING YOU DO MATTERS.

AFK'ing the mission is going to become more and more common as the event drags on, because after you get bored of playing water tag with the Grineer, there's literally no point in spending any more effort on it than necessary.  There's no reward for doing better, and no point in trying.  The whole reason DE gets away with being a "grindy free to play game" is that they've *mostly* done a decent job of hiding the grind behind gameplay that's interesting, or at least bearable.  In this case, for may people, they failed.

I agree the event could use a few tweeks. I agree encouraging people to actively play by giving us more pearls per kill as a team would definitely improve the experiencs; ones mindset entering into this event needs to be accounted for also. No one is being forced to do anything.

The 10 days spread is plenty of time to get everything other than the mods, and not feel like you're breaking your mind doing it. Personally I am enjoying the change of pace. My mindset is, just have FUN with it. Laugh your arse off in this silly light hearted event. Grab a few friends, drink a few beers, squirt a few Grineer, rinse and repeat.

At the same time people can take this opportunity to practice their aim gliding and deflection shooting techniques. Everyone entering this event is on a level playing field. Other than learning to parkour, as in getting your moves on like Jagger, there is no reason not to try and achieve high scores, other than taking a childish stand that it is better to afk and wait the timer out. DE did not have to make this event. There are bigger fish to fry with this game than this event. That said, I can see this event coming back, and tweeked, right down to using operators with swim wear, pool noodles for melee, and playing against the Ostron and Vent kids as opponents.

[Imbarator]

vor 1 Minute schrieb CuChulainnWD:

I agree the event could use a few tweeks. I agree encouraging people to actively play by giving us more pearls per kill as a team would definitely improve the experiencs; ones mindset entering into this event needs to be accounted for also. No one is being forced to do anything.

The 10 days spread is plenty of time to get everything other than the mods, and not feel like you're breaking your mind doing it. Personally I am enjoying the change of pace. My mindset is, just have FUN with it. Laugh your arse off in this silly light hearted event. Grab a few friends, drink a few beers, squirt a few Grineer, rinse and repeat.

At the same time people can take this opportunity to practice their aim gliding and deflection shooting techniques. Everyone entering this event is on a level playing field. Other than learning to parkour, as in getting your moves on like Jagger, there is no reason not to try and achieve high scores, other than taking a childish stand that it is better to afk and wait the timer out. DE did not have to make this event. There are bigger fish to fry with this game than this event. That said, I can see this event coming back, and tweeked, right down to using operators with swim wear, pool noodles for melee, and playing against the Ostron and Vent kids as opponents.

"No one is being forced to do anything."

Yep, noone is forced to play Warframe at all. And how does that hold up against valid criticism about the quality of this "event"?

"The 10 days spread is plenty of time to get everything"

Debunked several times by now. Thats not the problem. The problem is, having to sink several hours into this badly designed event, simply for the sake of rewards, with no variation whatsoever.

"DE did not have to make this event. "

Just because they did something, doesn't mean said something has to be praised for existing. If it's done badly, then it will be criticised.

"Laugh your arse off in this silly light hearted event."

Yes, I am filled with nostalgia when thinking about the time I had with this "event". Remember when you splashed that bad Grineer AI with a Soaktron? Or that other time, when you splashed a bad Grineer AI with that Soaktron? Or that one time especially, when you splashed a bad Grineer AI with the Soaktron?

 

Also, this isn't an event. This is a minigame. Something that would be part of a real event in other games, alongside other ways to earn the event specific currency.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

I've just been working IRL while I afk in a tree solo and reset every 5 min.  Not exactly sure why DE would think that is a good model, I guess they needed to pad their "Gamers spent x hours in game this month" stat.

 

[CuChulainnWD]

2 minutes ago, Imbarator said:

"No one is being forced to do anything."

Yep, noone is forced to play Warframe at all. And how does that hold up against valid criticism about the quality of this "event"?

"The 10 days spread is plenty of time to get everything"

Debunked several times by now. Thats not the problem. The problem is, having to sink several hours into this badly designed event, simply for the sake of rewards, with no variation whatsoever.

"DE did not have to make this event. "

Just because they did something, doesn't mean said something has to be praised for existing. If it's done badly, then it will be criticised.

"Laugh your arse off in this silly light hearted event."

Yes, I am filled with nostalgia when thinking about the time I had with this "event". Remember when you splashed that bad Grineer AI with a Soaktron? Or that other time, when you splashed a bad Grineer AI with that Soaktron? Or that one time especially, when you splashed a bad Grineer AI with the Soaktron?

 

Also, this isn't an event. This is a minigame. Something that would be part of a real event in other games, alongside other ways to earn the event specific currency.

You're still not getting it are you? You do not have to sink several hours to get the rewards. That is your choice, you can spread it out or rampage through it. Your mindset going into this is what will set your mood towards it. You're coming at this like you're expecting triple A quality. DE is not a Triple A company. Much of what they have put out, Quests aside, has been half arsed and buggy. It improves over time.

This event may well do the same, or could be completely forgotten. It has potential. It is not what you say, but how you say it that matters. I agree improvements can be made to the "mini game". However instead what I am reading is a whole lot of whinging and whining, instead or actual constructive criticism.

If you want the mods, do Rathum, if you want the floofs, do the event. You can make of it what you will, yes it is bare bones at present, it may well get better. Just realise, that this is how DE does things, always has, and most likely, always will. The quality with DE comes with age.

[Imbarator]

vor 1 Minute schrieb CuChulainnWD:

You're still not getting it are you? You do not have to sink several hours to get the rewards. That is your choice, you can spread it out or rampage through it. Your mindset going into this is what will set your mood towards it. You're coming at this like you're expecting triple A quality. DE is not a Triple A company. Much of what they have put out, Quests aside, has been half arsed and buggy. It improves over time.

This event may well do the same, or could be completely forgotten. It has potential. It is not what you say, but how you say it that matters. I agree improvements can be made to the "mini game". However instead what I am reading is a whole lot of whinging and whining, instead or actual constructive criticism.

If you want the mods, do Rathum, if you want the floofs, do the event. You can make of it what you will, yes it is bare bones at present, it may well get better. Just realise, that this is how DE does things, always has, and most likely, always will. The quality with DE comes with age.

The fact that the game provides something like this (meaning: grinding this mission as the only means to get a certain reward) is bad game design. This deserves to be pointed out now. They publish it, they get evaluation. That simple.

You can call criticism "whining" all day long, but it doesn't matter as long as the criticism is valid. Wich it is.

[CuChulainnWD]

10 minutes ago, Imbarator said:

The fact that the game provides something like this (meaning: grinding this mission as the only means to get a certain reward) is bad game design. This deserves to be pointed out now. They publish it, they get evaluation. That simple.

You can call criticism "whining" all day long, but it doesn't matter as long as the criticism is valid. Wich it is.

Sure, and I won't disagree. The point I am making to you is, never expect too much right off the hop with DE. I am not expecting great things from Railjack and the Kingpin system either. When it is released, I am sure I will be just as hyped as the next person. Having put time in with DE, and Warframe, I know there are going to be some major bugs and issues to iron out with it on release and perhaps a year or so after. Your bench mark for DE is set way too high for their new content.

Point out the flaws all you like, there are MANY in Warframe. Seeing you've been in this game just under a year and a half tells me by your own words you enjoy what DE has offered so far baring this event. Well, they have had 7 years to polish that content to where you now enjoy it. Some of us had to go through the slog to get to that point, and there are still major glaring issues to be resolved.

You new guys need to learn this lesson now, enjoy what DE has to offer, know it will be flawed and ugly to start, but it will be improved with time. The question is, do you have the patience to wait it out, or are you going to whinge and cry? It is not going to be fixed immediately, nor will it ever be Triple A perfection on release.

It is because of this slog, and how DE does things, that there are Veterans still playing this game after 4K, 10K or more hours in actual game hours (Not steam). We appreciate DE for what and how they do things, though frustrating at times, because we see the full potential of what they offer. We just have to hurry up and wait. Stick around long enough, say another 7 years from now and you too will marvel at how 1) Warframe is still going 2) As much it has changed it is still the same, 3) It is still Bugframe, GrindFrame, Farmframe and any other moniker it has earned.

It is incredible to me to see the creativity and potential after 7 years of existence, Warframe has to offer. I just don't expect it to be pretty to start, I look towards its future and potential, and enjoy the ride.

Edited August 5, 2019 by CuChulainnWD

[Imbarator]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb CuChulainnWD:

Sure, and I won't disagree. The point I am making to you is, never expect too much right off the hop with DE. I am not expecting great things from Railjack and the Kingpin system either. When it is released, I am sure I will be just as hyped as the next person. Having put time in with DE, and Warframe, I know there are going to be some major bugs and issues to iron out with it on release and perhaps a year or so after. Your bench mark for DE is set way too high for their new content.

Point out the flaws all you like, there are MANY in Warframe. Seeing you've been in this game just under a year and a half tells me by your own words you enjoy what DE has offered so far baring this event. Well, they have had 7 years to polish that content to where you now enjoy it. Some of us had to go through the slog to get to that point, and there are still major glaring issues to be resolved.

You new guys need to learn this lesson now, enjoy what DE has to offer, know it will be flawed and ugly to start, but it will be improved with time. The question is, do you have the patience to wait it out, or are you going to whinge and cry? It is not going to be fixed immediately, nor will it ever be Triple A perfection on release.

"The point I am making to you is, never expect too much right off the hop with DE."

Fair enough, and I can get where you are coming from. But simply put, I just think differently. Warframe in itself is a big guilty pleasure for me, but I that doesn't mean I accept everything that gets thrown at me. Else I'd be playing all of that Asset-flip crap that fills up steam.

I have enjoyed objectively bad games before. Until a few years ago, I enjoyed Dynasty Wariors for example. I know that FFX has a crappy story and really bad dialogue, but i still have nostalgic feelings towards it. But those exemplary games had a decent time/reward ratio gameplay-wise.

Take subnautica for example. I could argue that the developer is new, so don't expect much from them. But (to me, personally), they delivered exceptionally well and gave me one of the best and immersive gameplay experiences in a while.

I don't judge a game by it's publisher, but the experience it delivers.

 

" It is not going to be fixed immediately, nor will it ever be Triple A perfection on release."

We both know, that Triple A is less of a quality brand than a derogatory term at this point. But I get what you are aiming at. Still, no excuse for them to get sloppy.

 

 

BTW.: I will be the first to praise them for good content as well. I sincerely love the exploiter orb. I like the direction Warframes Boss design was taking with her, I love her dialogue, an especially her voice acting. "FOR THEIR MOTHA!" has become a meme between me and my girlfriend. Just to clarify, that I am not capable of ONLY complaining.

[Ascarith]

9 hours ago, CuChulainnWD said:

Rubbish. It is fun easy, and light hearted content that people can do leisurely. People ask for events, DE gives them events, people complain. DE gives them meaty content, people complain. There are some genuine things for people to complain about this game. Complaining about this is asinine to the extreme. No one is forcing anyone to do it. There is a ton of time to do it, and the content will be returning, as well as the mods can be obtained in another game mode. Yet still, of course, people whinge like spoiled rotten children, nothing is good enough. Somebody, please call a WHAAAAAMBULANCE.

Wow, that seems...unnecessarily hostile?

It seems to me that you can't (or don't want to) accept the possibility that not everyone thinks or feels the same way as you. This is a public forum, so you're entitled to think that way if you want, although I don't find it terribly productive for said public forum. For the sake of actual discussion, though, I'll just point out that nothing you said is responsive to the argument that Dog Days isn't "real" content.

Being "fun easy, and light hearted" doesn't make it lasting content. The assertion that people complain even when DE gives them "meaty content" doesn't include Dog Days as said "meaty content." The statement that there are "genuine things for people to complain about" also has nothing to do with whether Dog Days has any real content (and reads as fairly arrogant if you are suggesting that you are the one that gets to determine what is a legitimate complaint). There being "a ton of time to do it" and the fact that it "will be returning" do not address the complaint that Dog Days has little to no depth to encourage someone to want to replay it. 

And even if the people complaining were actually spoiled rotten children, that has no bearing on whether what they are saying actually makes any sense. (It's unclear to me whether or not you already understood that, as you might have just wanted to launch an insult because you (seem to) have strong feelings about this).

[CuChulainnWD]

11 minutes ago, Imbarator said:

"The point I am making to you is, never expect too much right off the hop with DE."

Fair enough, and I can get where you are coming from. But simply put, I just think differently. Warframe in itself is a big guilty pleasure for me, but I that doesn't mean I accept everything that gets thrown at me. Else I'd be playing all of that Asset-flip crap that fills up steam.

I have enjoyed objectively bad games before. Until a few years ago, I enjoyed Dynasty Wariors for example. I know that FFX has a crappy story and really bad dialogue, but i still have nostalgic feelings towards it. But those exemplary games had a decent time/reward ratio gameplay-wise.

Take subnautica for example. I could argue that the developer is new, so don't expect much from them. But (to me, personally), they delivered exceptionally well and gave me one of the best and immersive gameplay experiences in a while.

I don't judge a game by it's publisher, but the experience it delivers.

 

" It is not going to be fixed immediately, nor will it ever be Triple A perfection on release."

We both know, that Triple A is less of a quality brand than a derogatory term at this point. But I get what you are aiming at. Still, no excuse for them to get sloppy.

 

 

BTW.: I will be the first to praise them for good content as well. I sincerely love the exploiter orb. I like the direction Warframes Boss design was taking with her, I love her dialogue, an especially her voice acting. "FOR THEIR MOTHA!" has become a meme between me and my girlfriend. Just to clarify, that I am not capable of ONLY complaining.

Fantastic, but here is the thing, DE takes creative risks. What you see now may not be what we end up with a year from now. What I am suggesting to you is, instead of seeing what we have right this minute, and we can all agree, improvements can be made, realise its potential and what can be done with it. I have seen many threads asking DE to expand this event further along with constructive critisism. It gets DE's creative juices flowing. In another year or two you will come to see the genious and folly of DE's ways and fully appreciate the frustration Vets have with DE currently. To me this event is small fry, and it is fun, even because of its flaws. It is personal in  that how I choose to view it. To me it is light hearted level playing field fun. It has great potential to be a whole lot more and would improve game play.

I have 34 more runs to do to get the floofs. I have not noticed the grind so much because I play with friends, chat, and take breaks from it, and for me personally the time has flown by, and has been a blast. Approach DE with that mind set and your immediate attitude towards new content may change too. Never stop criticizing DE sure, but do it constructively, and give them time, they do some pretty amazing things.

 

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by CuChulainnWD

[Imbarator]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb CuChulainnWD:

Fantastic, but here is the thing, DE takes creative risks. What you see now may not be what we end up with a year from now. What I am suggesting to you is, instead of seeing what we have right this minute, and we can all agree, improvements can be made, realise its potential and what can be done with it. I have seen many threads asking DE to expand this event further along with constructive critisism. It gets DE's creative juices flowing. In another year or two you will come to see the genious and folly of DE's ways and fully appreciate the frustration Vets have with DE currently. To me this event is small fry, and it is fun, even because of its flaws. It is personal in  that how I choose to view it. To me it is light hearted level playing field fun. It has great potential to be a whole lot more and would improve game play.

I have 34 more runs to do to get the floofs. I have not noticed the grind so much because I play with friends, chat, and take breaks from it, and for me personally the time has gone by, instead it has been a blast. Approach DE with that mind set and your immediate attitude towards new content may change too. Never stop criticizing DE sure, but do it constructively, and give them time, they do some pretty amazing things.

 

 

I can't argue against anything you said, and that was never my intention. My sole intention, whenever I answered to anything regarding this topic, was to debunk arguments that tried to defend this game modes "Quality". If those arguments are flawed, then I'll point it out. I even appreciated the idea behind this minigame on several occasions, while also providing feedback. I simply don't do that every single post.

However, it's self-explonatory that time can change things. That doesn't mean it will, but yeah, the possibility exists. Like I said, I am curious about the future of this game, as it's a guilty pleasure to me. And I will keep to criticise and praise whenever it's due.

[CuChulainnWD]

12 minutes ago, Imbarator said:

I can't argue against anything you said, and that was never my intention. My sole intention, whenever I answered to anything regarding this topic, was to debunk arguments that tried to defend this game modes "Quality". If those arguments are flawed, then I'll point it out. I even appreciated the idea behind this minigame on several occasions, while also providing feedback. I simply don't do that every single post.

However, it's self-explonatory that time can change things. That doesn't mean it will, but yeah, the possibility exists. Like I said, I am curious about the future of this game, as it's a guilty pleasure to me. And I will keep to criticise and praise whenever it's due.

I think Warframe is a great guilty pleasure for many people. When you put X many hours into it and you look to see how many hours you have invested, and ask, where the hell did the time go... you know you are hooked. There are very very few games I have played that I continue to play consistently, and I would wager the same might be said of you and many others. 

The possibilities for Railjack would and could be endless, this is Steve's dream as much as any of us, as kids wishing to fly spaceships and be rangers across the stars. It is what makes Warframe epic and lasting. Keep in mind, that ride is going to be bumpy until say 3 years from now when another wave of new players are coming in guns blazing, experiencing all of the old content we've slogged through, gets something new they don't like "Cause it's crap" not realising it may well improve like wine, age.

For all the lack of quality Dog Days may be, and I am not sure if they were mixing up quality with what I think they might mean as potential, it still has a lot to teach noobs and vets alike. Deflection shooting being one of them. The variety of ways one can approach a target, engage and make a kill can be endless, and silly, and does markedly improve in game play. Add a few beers to that mix, and still hit your targets; crikey any Airforce would be recruiting players to drive their drones with our marksmenship 😉 .

At the end of the day, it is what we make of it. I choose to just have fun. Sure it maybe repetitive, but with the right mindset and outlook, you can also have a blast.

Edited August 5, 2019 by CuChulainnWD

[Renegade343]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)GaussPrime said:

The hema situation is disgusting. I still miss 4.500 for my solo clan.. 😞

Hey, that's really easy! Just one or two Exterminate, and you can get the 5 needed for the Hema.

[CuChulainnWD]

29 minutes ago, Ascarith said:

Wow, that seems...unnecessarily hostile?

It seems to me that you can't (or don't want to) accept the possibility that not everyone thinks or feels the same way as you. This is a public forum, so you're entitled to think that way if you want, although I don't find it terribly productive for said public forum. For the sake of actual discussion, though, I'll just point out that nothing you said is responsive to the argument that Dog Days isn't "real" content.

Being "fun easy, and light hearted" doesn't make it lasting content. The assertion that people complain even when DE gives them "meaty content" doesn't include Dog Days as said "meaty content." The statement that there are "genuine things for people to complain about" also has nothing to do with whether Dog Days has any real content (and reads as fairly arrogant if you are suggesting that you are the one that gets to determine what is a legitimate complaint). There being "a ton of time to do it" and the fact that it "will be returning" do not address the complaint that Dog Days has little to no depth to encourage someone to want to replay it. 

And even if the people complaining were actually spoiled rotten children, that has no bearing on whether what they are saying actually makes any sense. (It's unclear to me whether or not you already understood that, as you might have just wanted to launch an insult because you (seem to) have strong feelings about this).

I apologies if it appears I was being hostile to you personally. I was not. I am more disappointed with the general direction of complaints regarding the Dog Days event. People are expecting way too much, from something that is obviously a test bed with great potential. I see a mass wave of new people coming into Warframe, hearing great things about Warframe and DE, and then when something is not quite what they like, crap all over it. I have no issues with people critising DE or Warframe what so ever. There are some major glaring issues to be had with both. That said, the new wave of people have not had the time in or experience with how DE gets things done. They do get around to fixing things eventually... or improving experiences, just some more quickly than others. Vets are feeling that pinch and feeling neglected. 

I can see the potential of Dog Days, and the directions it can go. Thus I do not take such a harsh view on its quality, as I know it will improve with age, just as everything has, and has not. It is that time and maturity with Warframe that many new players enjoy the old content, because it was a slog to make it what it is today. Let's face it, more improvements can be made.

TLDR: Dog days maybe at depth, crap now, it has potential to be great; try to enjoy it for what it is now,and see it improve with proper constructive criticism.

[CuChulainnWD]

11 minutes ago, (XB1)GaussPrime said:

The hema situation is disgusting. I still miss 4.500 for my solo clan.. 😞

The hema can be had in a year and a playing the game, with two people. After all is said and done, just playing the game normally, you will be flooded with mutagen, more than you know what to do with.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

the grind in this for the floofs (or captura scene) is the worst kind. the fact that you can spread it out over 10 days if you have the luxury of being able to play each of the 10 days doesn't change this.

the mods are one thing - the reason being there are alternatives to grinding for them. 

there is no alternative to a boring 6 minutes (including loading times on console) to get nakak pearls.

there is no variety to game play as there is no effect of changing warframes, no alternate weapons, no alternate maps, no alternate enemies.  So you are left with one boring repetitive task.  

With very little effort this could have been avoided by any of (and certainly no limited to) the following:

• PVP pearls: perfectly fair as warframes weapons etc make no difference.  25 for the loser, 50 for the winner.  
• warframe choice meaning something. anything.  some faster some tankier.  or at least hydroid having some special something or other.
• enemies actually having shields and armor to make the hard to kill or require teamwork to do so.
• rewarding kills by decreasing time remaining, punishing death by increasing time.
• king-of-the-hill game mode - at least you couldn't just park your ass in a tree for 5 minutes.
• or simply reduce the grind for the junk by about 30%

8 hours of this "fun" game mode with none of the above is not fun. its not rewarding. its not appealing in general and I fail to see DE's point of view unless it is simply to boost their hours played this month stat.

I appreciate the concept. but if you want a fun event - keep it fun and light hearted and don't drag it into the cesspool of grind.

 

 

[Tinklzs]

52 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

People are expecting way too much, from something that is obviously a test bed with great potential.

Have you thought of the possibility that you set the bar too low? 

I'll give a side analogy to hopefully get my point across.  Many regard CDProject Red as one of the best developers right now because they released expansions the size of games, and give away free dlc cosmetics etc. Yet 20 years ago that was the norm. Now it's normal to charge $50 for an expansion that re-uses assets and doesn't really expand the game nearly as much, or $10-$20 DLCs that have 5-8 hours worth of content instead of the  'old' 30+ hours.

 

Back to warframe.  Looking at many of the comments giving advice for Dog Days, DE put more work into remove liked things from Rathuum than making something unique and long-lasting with Dog Days.  I get it, it's an event similar to the smaller nightwave season to help 'bridge' "bigger" seasons/events together. But even thermia/ghoul purging has more going on than Dog Days. And DD ends up removing one of the core things of Warframe, variety.  It does have potential, like the idea for PvP and I can see some other types of weapons being made into water weapons.

 

Just a shame that DE put this out there as it is, when there is so much more that could've been added with less effort than it took to remove those mechanics from Rathuum. 

7 minutes ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

8 hours of this "fun" game mode with none of the above is not fun. its not rewarding. its not appealing in general and I fail to see DE's point of view unless it is simply to boost their hours played this month stat.

It's 8 straight hours which is what many seem to not understand. Straight. Hours. As in - in the mission itself, no loading screens no 'getting up to go to bathroom/get drink' etc. 

Definitely doesn't make me excited if this event is to test the waters (again) on how much the playerbase will handle with grinding before it's too much. They did it with Sibear and again with Hema.. but those are weapons, DD is most cosmetics. Which makes me worry on how much more of a grind we're going to have behind some cosmetics that might not even be good or look nice.   Similarly to the blazing step /seedling emphermas. 

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

Just now, Tinklzs said:

no 'getting up to go to bathroom/get drink' etc. 

if you can't get up during this event you're doing it wrong.  the correct order is: spawn in, kill one enemy, climb tree, then go do something else like get some coffee, watch uboob, bio-break, whatever for the remaining 4:30seconds.  Unfortunately even doing that doesn't take the misery out of the grind since you have to return every 5 minutes to reload the mission.  For 8 hours.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[EmberStar]

1 hour ago, CuChulainnWD said:

You're still not getting it are you? You do not have to sink several hours to get the rewards. That is your choice, you can spread it out or rampage through it. Your mindset going into this is what will set your mood towards it.

The problem for some people is *entirely* that you have to sink several hours.  You can do it all at once, or in tiny chunks.  You can slog through it in one day, or spread it evenly through the whole event.  But if you just want the Captura scene, that will be 100 minutes of "fun."  Period.  (five minutes per mission, at 50 pearls each.  1000 pearls to buy the scene means you have to run it twenty times.  20 * 5 = 100.  Feel free to correct my math if I missed something.)  Again, if doing well (or doing ANYTHING) in the mission could speed that up, even a little, I don't think people would be complaining as much. 

But at the moment, it's a mandatory, unskippable, unchangeable time gate.  It's *exactly* the same kind of irritating timer countdown as you find in a lot of the more crap mobile games, right down to the fact that you can't even really just queue it up and go do something productive.  You have to check in every five minutes and restart the mission.  And again, *playing* the mission is basically irrelevant.  You just need to NOT LOSE 20 times.  And that's just for the one item.  If you're the mythical "new player" and don't have any of the Rathuum mods and would like to take the opportunity to get them way, way sooner than normal?  Hope you've got some good books picked out on Audible.

Doing the mission four (or six or whatever) times to complete the Tactical Alert is fine.  You play it, you run the final mission maybe one or three times to get the points (which I think are cumulative across multiple attempts) and then you're done.  And for the final mission, doing better *does* matter, because you get more points and have to repeat it less often.  But for the pearls?  Five minutes per attempt, fifty pearls per not-lose.  Figure out which Beach Store rewards you want, and that's *exactly* how many hours you have to sink to get the rewards.  Period.

[EmberStar]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

if you can't get up during this event you're doing it wrong.  the correct order is: spawn in, kill one enemy, climb tree, then go do something else like get some coffee, watch uboob, bio-break, whatever for the remaining 4:30seconds.  Unfortunately even doing that doesn't take the misery out of the grind since you have to return every 5 minutes to reload the mission.  For 8 hours.

Right.  You can take breaks.  You can do five minutes, then something else, then another waterfight.  But no matter how you break it up or space it out, the eight hours is the *minimum* time sink for getting that many pearls.  So anything you do to pace it out is also making it take longer.  If you've got a fast computer and really pay attention, let's take a roughly random guess and say that you lose 20 seconds restarting the mission.  (You can bio break while you sit in a tree, and sleep is for scrubs.)  That means every three missions adds another minute to the time required.  If I get the math right, that works out to at least an additional 32 minutes just to restart the mission.  Nearly a hundred times.  So fun.  Such wow.  😞

[CuChulainnWD]

31 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

The problem for some people is *entirely* that you have to sink several hours.  You can do it all at once, or in tiny chunks.  You can slog through it in one day, or spread it evenly through the whole event.  But if you just want the Captura scene, that will be 100 minutes of "fun."  Period.  (five minutes per mission, at 50 pearls each.  1000 pearls to buy the scene means you have to run it twenty times.  20 * 5 = 100.  Feel free to correct my math if I missed something.)  Again, if doing well (or doing ANYTHING) in the mission could speed that up, even a little, I don't think people would be complaining as much. 

But at the moment, it's a mandatory, unskippable, unchangeable time gate.  It's *exactly* the same kind of irritating timer countdown as you find in a lot of the more crap mobile games, right down to the fact that you can't even really just queue it up and go do something productive.  You have to check in every five minutes and restart the mission.  And again, *playing* the mission is basically irrelevant.  You just need to NOT LOSE 20 times.  And that's just for the one item.  If you're the mythical "new player" and don't have any of the Rathuum mods and would like to take the opportunity to get them way, way sooner than normal?  Hope you've got some good books picked out on Audible.

Doing the mission four (or six or whatever) times to complete the Tactical Alert is fine.  You play it, you run the final mission maybe one or three times to get the points (which I think are cumulative across multiple attempts) and then you're done.  And for the final mission, doing better *does* matter, because you get more points and have to repeat it less often.  But for the pearls?  Five minutes per attempt, fifty pearls per not-lose.  Figure out which Beach Store rewards you want, and that's *exactly* how many hours you have to sink to get the rewards.  Period.

Your math is spot on. I agree it would be grand if we could get more points for team kills. That said, it is only a slog if you tell yourself it is. Mind set has as much to do with how you would enjoy this basic mode as anything else. It is fun, it is silly, and can be made more fun and silly playing it with friends.

New and old players a like can learn a lot from this mode. I consider myself to be not too bad of a shot on the move, but playing this game mode has demonstrated to me how I too can improve my deflection shooting and aim gliding skills, and have a blast do it. Having stuck with DE for a while, give them some time, they may well get around to making this mode even more entertaining and viable.

There is a difference between crapping all over it, because yes it can use improvement, and realising its potential and where it will go. This is a beta of what may and will become. Let's be honest though, people would complain if a match was 2.5 minutes, or 1 minute. No matter what we do, time will still be applied.

Edited August 5, 2019 by CuChulainnWD

[CuChulainnWD]

10 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

Right.  You can take breaks.  You can do five minutes, then something else, then another waterfight.  But no matter how you break it up or space it out, the eight hours is the *minimum* time sink for getting that many pearls.  So anything you do to pace it out is also making it take longer.  If you've got a fast computer and really pay attention, let's take a roughly random guess and say that you lose 20 seconds restarting the mission.  (You can bio break while you sit in a tree, and sleep is for scrubs.)  That means every three missions adds another minute to the time required.  If I get the math right, that works out to at least an additional 32 minutes just to restart the mission.  Nearly a hundred times.  So fun.  Such wow.  😞

You seem more fixated on time, when you can space it out over now 7 days? Do an hour and a half each day with break and you would still come out with more pearls than you know what to do with. If you spent less time griping about it, and actually getting some friends together, run 5 missions, take a break, do something else, then come back, you will clear the board. There are people who have already completed this twice over and are still having fun with it. Try not to get stuck in the minutia of time and let your mind have fun with it you will find that the time issue is not such an issue any longer. Even if at the end of the day you've cleared the board and wasted 8 hours of your life. Isn't that what playing video games all about? Losing time?

Edited August 5, 2019 by CuChulainnWD

[Tinklzs]

23 minutes ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

if you can't get up during this event you're doing it wrong. 

I get your point, but that fact alone that you can afk/idle this event shows the lack of forethought and care that DE put into this event to begin wtih. Thus my comment of 'them putting more effort in removing Rathuum mechanics than making DD unique" rings true.  

10 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

You seem more fixated on time, when you can space it out over now 7 days? Do an hour and a half each day with break

Gonna stop you there. Not everyone has the time to put in, even in 10 days. I got mine done all at once because I knew I wouldn't have time for the rest of the week to do so. And even if the event is coming again 'in the future' we don't know when that is, so by instinct, those that want something and don't know when it will be available again will go and try to get it immediately.  Those that aren't really interested in it now, won't be that interested in it later when it comes back again through the revolving door. 

 

Dog Days is poorly designed mechanically, as it can be abused by being AFK, doesn't reward effort and removes variety, no warframe/weapon/loadout can change the goal and the singular task needed to complete it.  This event gets a 7/10 for creativity, (could've done more, they reused rathuum and made new dialogue with reused animations from Kela). Most of that 7 comes from the new little map + beach ball floofs + squirt gun.  It gets a 0/10 for mechanics/teamwork (what warframe is advertised as, check all their trailers - teamwork be happening, but definitely not here), and lack of integral continuity. The fact you can leech/afk in parts of the map and get the same reward as the guy putting his all in to SUPER SOAK the grineer, shows the lack of care/time/commitment on DE's part.

 

I've mentioned a few times in this discussion on how I"m afraid what this shows for DE in the future, not only testing the waters on how grindy they want to make things, but on how lazy they can be for future updates. Just like DLC/Expansions eventually became bigger and bigger money grabs with less content behind them and bigger price tags in the gaming industry, I fear that this update is a showing of DE's laziness in some regards (ignoring older game modes, moving on with half baked new ones). 

Maybe I'm wrong and overreacting, but it's still within the parameters of their track record of past mistakes and poor choices. Only time will tell I suppose.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

The players defending this game mode are sheep. I can think of a variety of ways to make the gameplay more engaging without changing much and it all depends on how little the AI can handle. Things like adding balloons that you need to fill and pop to take over an area, killstreaks that activate limited use powers, tubes you need to collect and bring to an area to capture, etc. Better still, DE could have made the rewards fixed and used 3 of the 4 missions to let players select the game mode they enjoyed the most.

Anyone defending this effort by DE and especially the grind that it encourages has no place in a discussion about quality game development and player engagement.

Edited August 5, 2019 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph

[EmberStar]

15 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

You seem more fixated on time, when you can space it out over now 7 days? Do an hour and a half each day with break and you would still come out with more pearls than you know what to do with. If you spent less time griping about it, and actually getting some friends together, run 5 missions, take a break, do something else, then come back, you will clear the board. There are people who have already completed this twice over and are still having fun with it. Try not to get stuck in the minutia of time and let your mind have fun with it you will find that the time issue is not such an issue any longer. Even if at the end of the day you've cleared the board and wasted 8 hours of your life. Isn't that what playing video games all about? Losing time?

The time is an issue because the mission IS NOT FUN for me.  It's completely pointless other than the rewards.  I don't enjoy squirting the Grineer.  I don't enjoy listening to Kayla (basically *ever* but doubly so when she's stoned off her gourd.)  Playing the mission is an utter waste of my time, because the only thing I get from it is the 50 pearls every five minutes.  But I want the rewards, I have to spend those five minutes.  I can go do something useful while I hide in a tree, as long as it's something I don't mind interrupting every five minutes to restart the mission.

Some people are having fun with the mission.  Good for them, I'm glad they enjoy it.  That doesn't somehow negate the fact that the mission is (for some people, and me specifically) boring, pointless, and a complete waste of time.  If I'm going to spend eight hours playing a game I want to feel like I *accomplished* something in return for spending EIGHT HOURS of my life.  (Or even just almost two hours for the Captura scene.)  Having a "good attitude" isn't going to change the fact that I was utterly bored of the mission before I even finished the tactical alert.  And that's entirely because it doesn't matter *at all* what I do, as long as I can manage to not lose.

In any other game, spending eight hours is a *massive* investment of time, and I'd completely expect to have a great deal to show for it.  In eight hours in Kerbal Space Program, I can build an orbital satellite network, send multiple missions to the Mun, and even get started on building modular, reusable space stations as a spring pad for more missions.  In Ark:  Survival Evolved, eight hours is enough time to tame multiple useful creatures, harvest massive quantities of resources, fight a boss (including gathering the artifacts to open the portal) and do a tremendous amount of construction on my base.  Same for Conan Exiles, or Minecraft, or Terraria.  Eight hours in Space Engineers is enough time to get the full tech tree unlocked, build a mining station that will harvest, process and store literally megatons of material, build a rocket to escape the surface, and start working on an orbital station so that I can start mining for the rare metals that don't spawn on the surface.

In terms of "real life," eight hours is enough to watch at least four movies (or Avengers:  Endgame twice.)  It's enough time to completely organize my apartment, do the dishes, finish my laundry, make lunch and dinner.  It's long enough to finish listening to most audiobooks on Audible (or a third of a Stephen King novel.) 

OR I can spend those eight hours squirting water at Grineer, for five minutes at a time.  A mission that I was completely bored with after four tries, and where no amount of enthusiasm or effort on my part will make *any difference.*  And I get to repeat that mission nearly 100 times.  So yes, I'm kind of fixated on the time required.  I.  Wonder.  Why.

[CuChulainnWD]

11 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

I get your point, but that fact alone that you can afk/idle this event shows the lack of forethought and care that DE put into this event to begin wtih. Thus my comment of 'them putting more effort in removing Rathuum mechanics than making DD unique" rings true.  

Gonna stop you there. Not everyone has the time to put in, even in 10 days. I got mine done all at once because I knew I wouldn't have time for the rest of the week to do so. And even if the event is coming again 'in the future' we don't know when that is, so by instinct, those that want something and don't know when it will be available again will go and try to get it immediately.  Those that aren't really interested in it now, won't be that interested in it later when it comes back again through the revolving door. 

 

Dog Days is poorly designed mechanically, as it can be abused by being AFK, doesn't reward effort and removes variety, no warframe/weapon/loadout can change the goal and the singular task needed to complete it.  This event gets a 7/10 for creativity, (could've done more, they reused rathuum and made new dialogue with reused animations from Kela). Most of that 7 comes from the new little map + beach ball floofs + squirt gun.  It gets a 0/10 for mechanics/teamwork (what warframe is advertised as, check all their trailers - teamwork be happening, but definitely not here), and lack of integral continuity. The fact you can leech/afk in parts of the map and get the same reward as the guy putting his all in to SUPER SOAK the grineer, shows the lack of care/time/commitment on DE's part.

 

I've mentioned a few times in this discussion on how I"m afraid what this shows for DE in the future, not only testing the waters on how grindy they want to make things, but on how lazy they can be for future updates. Just like DLC/Expansions eventually became bigger and bigger money grabs with less content behind them and bigger price tags in the gaming industry, I fear that this update is a showing of DE's laziness in some regards (ignoring older game modes, moving on with half baked new ones). 

Maybe I'm wrong and overreacting, but it's still within the parameters of their track record of past mistakes and poor choices. Only time will tell I suppose.

I was going to respond to a much earlier post you made about grind, and it would not allay your fears. DE was asked to reduce the grind before you started playing, and though they said they would try and reduce it, it has only increased since then. This is a grind looter shooter after all. Ones entertainment and fun derived from it is all on us, and our mindset and approach to it. It does offer great game play and mechanics, just as much as it has its glaring flaws when you play it long enough.

That is the DE/Warframe paradox. If you look at many vets, they have many thousands of in game hours played, but they are also espousing many criticisms that are very relevant but ignored, leaving many Vets feeling neglected. Yet they still play the game because they have seen where Warframe was, and has become and see the future potential still viable in Warframe.

Yes Dog Days has issues, but they are small fry in comparison to many of the long standing issues you may not see right now, but maybe in the future, but DD does have a lot of potential, that next year, and this is my TelePathetic powers talking, tells me we will see this come back in the summer next year, and perhaps an iteration of it with improvements this winter. Hell, when DE gets back to work tomorrow we may see a few tweeks to it in hotfixes.

My point is, you may see the bar set too low, stick around long enough and you will understand where the Vets are coming from. It is not a matter of the bar being too low, it is understanding given DE's staff size, they do more with less, and yes sometimes what they do may look like crap now, but may and well become something great later down the road. It is how it has been when I started playing and before, and will most likely be the way 7 years from now. Accept it or not, it is how it is.