Synth Fiber/Health Conversion/Broken Scepter

[withinmyself]

Am I just late to the game on this or do players think this is too gimmicky? Because it is not gimmicky. I've been using this set up with Mag Prime and I have all 3 armor stacks the entire time.

And just in case someone doesn't know what I'm talking about here:

Synth Fiber (Sentinel Mod): Aside from providing extra armor to your companion when Health Orbs are picked up, this Mod also allows you to pick up Health Orbs when you are at 100% health (Which you can't normally do).

Health Conversion (Frame Mod): Health Orbs grant 450 armor (base), stacks up to 3x. Taking damage will consume a stack after 3 seconds.

Broken Scepter (Melee Weapon): On anything dead that isn't a robot you can pull a Health Orb out of the body. On robots you can pull Energy.

When I have 3 of these armor stacks going then I have added 1350 base armor to my frame. I also run Arcane Guardian which procs quite a bit so that's another 600 base armor.

I've only used this on Mag Prime so far. This setup is ideal for frames that normally suffer from having low armor. Frames that are at risk to get one shot killed in late stage Arbitration or other end-game areas.

EDIT:  After reading some responses I just wanted to add that in order to use this properly you'll still need to have a decent survival strategy in place already.  I'm by no means suggesting that this alone will turn any frame into a tank.  I use this to push the envelope just a bit further than it's supposed to go.  Thanks for all the responses and feedback!!

Edited August 5, 2019 by withinmyself

[stormy505]

i use this setup on Nekros cause more health orbs make shield of shadows tank build more viable. though synth fiber is more optional cause with desecrate you rarely are at full health.

[withinmyself]

Right

2 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

i use this setup on Nekros cause more health orbs make shield of shadows tank build more viable. though synth fiber is more optional cause with desecrate you rarely are at full health.

Right.  The only viable frames that would use this were frames like Nekros or Inaros.  Frames that could pick up health orbs a lot because they were always draining health.  With Synth Fiber this has opened up to all frames. 

[Lutesque]

I do this Nezha and Nekros....

The reason why I don't do it with the Broken Sceptor (other than the factor that I Sold it) is because any warframe that desperately needs the Armor is going to get shot in the ass when using the Sceptor on a corpse. 

On the plus side.... the Synth mods can be used on your Kavat/Kubrow now...

[SneakyErvin]

Thanks for this thread, never really thought of Synth Fiber. Will make HC very easy to use on Nezha.

[Renegade343]

Well, there's always Synth Fiber/Synth Deconstruct for a less reliable (read: Probably a lot less reliable), but less gimmicky method for Health Conversion buff than Broken Specter.

[Lutesque]

10 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

On the plus side.... the Synth mods can be used on your Kavat/Kubrow now...

Forgot to mention this is probably a bug ... I can't get any official sources to confirm that these mods are suppose to work on your Pets....

In the mean time im using my Kavat without Medi-Pet and Tek Assault so I can fit in the Synth Mods...

In any case Health Conversion is still difficult to jusify sacrificing a slot for.... I mean how are going to get orbs in Eidolon Hunts ? I can barely get them in Arbitrations....

[Renegade343]

20 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

In any case Health Conversion is still difficult to jusify sacrificing a slot for.... I mean how are going to get orbs in Eidolon Hunts ? I can barely get them in Arbitrations....

I suppose with the Synth mods, equipping them on Sentinels is better because they can shoot much faster (also punch through might be beneficial?) than the cats/dogs can hop towards a target to deal damage. So for Arbitrations, assuming you can keep your Sentinel alive, you probably can get some health orbs for Health Conversion.

[withinmyself]

4 hours ago, Renegade343 said:

Well, there's always Synth Fiber/Synth Deconstruct

I use Deconstruct as well.  Although it doesn't guarantee Health Orbs like the Broken Scepter does.

 

 

4 hours ago, Lutesque said:

On the plus side.... the Synth mods can be used on your Kavat/Kubrow now...

I did not know this.  My Venari build is already pretty full but this might make for an interesting Khora set up. 

 

4 hours ago, Lutesque said:

In any case Health Conversion is still difficult to justify sacrificing a slot for.

It's always difficult to justify a Frame slot.  I had a hard time accepting Adaptation as a necessary Mod but now I don't leave home without it.  I run two Umbral Mods on Mag Prime (Vitality & Intensify)  Her armor is so low that putting Umbral Fiber on as well just doesn't make big enough of an impact (even with the boosts to the other 2) to justify.  So I had been running Primed Vigor and Adaptation with Arcane Guardian.  I've swapped out Primed Vigor for Health Conversion and I think it's been a good decision.  I have more armor than what 2 Arcane Guardians can give me only by chance.  Plus I still run Arcane Guardian so that's just more base armor stacked up.  I can easily push past an hour in Survival Arbitration with Mag Prime without dying with this set up. 

[withinmyself]

5 hours ago, Lutesque said:

I mean how are going to get orbs in Eidolon Hunts ? I can barely get them in Arbitrations....

Granted, this might not work as well for Eidolon Hunts but for Arbitration? Absolutely.  And again this relies on Broken Scepter for 'guaranteed Health Orbs'  Plus Broken Scepter actually builds as a fairly decent Condition Overload Melee.  Pretty fun too!  1.25 speed out the gate!

Edited August 3, 2019 by withinmyself

[withinmyself]

5 hours ago, Lutesque said:

The reason why I don't do it with the Broken Sceptor (other than the factor that I Sold it) is because any warframe that desperately needs the Armor is going to get shot in the ass when using the Sceptor on a corpse. 

What I do with Mag is overcharge her shields first.  I rely on my initial skills before moving towards stacking these Health Orbs.  It's really worked out pretty well.  And I wasn't sure if it would or not. 

[0_The_F00l]

The reason it is not popular is because there's too many hoops to jump through. 

Need to use mod slot on sentinel (being able to equip on beasts is probably a bug) 

Need to use specific weapon that is merely ok damage wise. 

Context specific actions needed within a time frame and hope you don't get shot while you do so, 

Buffs decay with damage. 

 

There are a lot of cool gimmicky builds, but there are easier ways to do it with some other frame is the main reason. 

[withinmyself]

35 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

There are a lot of cool gimmicky builds, but there are easier ways to do it with some other frame is the main reason. 

I feel like this is pretty easy to implement into your play style.  Bumping the attack speed up to 2.00 speeds up the Health Orb capture animation quite a bit and now it's second nature.  Like I said in a previous post.  I rely on my initial survival techniques.  Then when I see a window of opportunity I add this armor which I really don't need until further into Arbitration. 

[Lutesque]

5 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Buffs decay with damage. 

As far as I can tell As long as the damage doesn't hit your health You get keep your Stacks. So if you have resilient Shields you can take few hits and keep your Health Conversion Stacks.... but then again if your shields are that good then what the hell do you need Health Conversion for ?

 

[0_The_F00l]

33 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

As far as I can tell As long as the damage doesn't hit your health You get keep your Stacks. So if you have resilient Shields you can take few hits and keep your Health Conversion Stacks.... but then again if your shields are that good then what the hell do you need Health Conversion for ?

 

Exactly, that mod slot can be used for more utility for the core build, 

Forcing a tank is possible, but your gameplay will be affected, and will not be effective where that survivability would actually be needed. 

 

[withinmyself]

On 2019-08-04 at 2:43 AM, Lutesque said:

but then again if your shields are that good then what the hell do you need Health Conversion for ?

I can't speak for all frames.  But for Mag Prime there comes a point where I'm at serious risk to get one shot killed against enemies level 130+.  Maybe Harrow or Hildryn can survive with their massive shields alone but even with overcharged shields and Adaptation running at 90% damage reduction Mag Prime WILL DIE without propping up her armor somehow.

My initial survival for Mag is to keep her shields overcharged which works fine most of the time especially running Arcane Guardian but I've found that this just isn't enough if you push past 50 rounds of Defense Arbitration or an hour of Survival Arbitration. 

Having the Health Conversion visual cues circling my frame gives me a bit more peace of mind and allows for broader, more dynamic game-play because I know that even if my shields get tanked I don't have to cross my fingers and hope that Guardian will save my ass.  

I also run Vazarin so as soon as I see any amount of my health being hit at all I use Protective Dash which heals me and also gives me a very small window of invulnerability to cast Crush(overcharge my shields) and at least start to pull a Health Orb if necessary.

I also use Synth Deconstruct and Greedy Pull.  Deconstruct gives me a better chance of Health Orbs dropping naturally while Greedy Pull will pull them straight to me as long as they are within the range of Pull.  Greedy Pull also works great with Arcane Energize and I really never have to worry about energy even though I don't use Zenarik's Energizing Dash.

I've gone through tons of builds with Mag Prime.  In fact, I have 4 Mag Primes.  My main one has 13 Forma in it so I've experimented thoroughly.  And I know there are a lot of players who have done the same and have various opinions and biases but this setup has drastically improved my survivability and playability when facing enemies level 130+.

And of course there is always the argument of "Why not just use [META-FRAME]?" to which I say "Where's the fun in doing that??" 

[tzadquiel]

i like your build. its original and sounds like you have a fav frame, that you really wanted to make work in any scenario, and I salute that. 

meta is boring. condition overload is boring. maim is boring. ignis wraith is boring. this game allows so many ways to do things, that if you decide on and do meta stuff and get bored easily, you kinda deserve it. 
 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

only problem is that it takes too long to get one orb with the Broken Scepter. you're also a sitting duck while the animation plays. it should be made so that it automatically makes orbs from corpses within a certain radius (essentially Desecrate, but shorter range and no cost to health or energy). if the Scepter was more efficient, that build would be even more efficient as a result.

[withinmyself]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

only problem is that it takes too long to get one orb with the Broken Scepter. you're also a sitting duck while the animation plays. it should be made so that it automatically makes orbs from corpses within a certain radius (essentially Desecrate, but shorter range and no cost to health or energy). if the Scepter was more efficient, that build would be even more efficient as a result.

This is true.  Although increasing the attack speed to 2.00 with Fury/Gladiator Vice increases the animation speed greatly.  It's still not instantaneous so you still need to make sure you can survive while doing it which is why I rely on other survival strategies at the same time. 

I also use Synth Deconstruct with Greedy Pull which provides quite a few Health Orbs on its own so I usually already have at least 1 armor stack before I use the sceptor which decays slower than the animation to extract.

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, withinmyself said:

I can't speak for all frames.  But for Mag Prime there comes a point where I'm at serious risk to get one shot killed against enemies level 130+.  Maybe Harrow or Hildryn can survive with their massive shields alone but even with overcharged shields and Adaptation running at 90% damage reduction Mag Prime WILL DIE without propping up her armor somehow.

Atleast your setup only requires a single slot.... :) 

1 hour ago, withinmyself said:

And of course there is always the argument of "Why not just use [META-FRAME]?" to which I say "Where's the fun in doing that??" 

I mean.... my primary argument is to why doesn't DE just fix it ?