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The Self Damage Fixes


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ok so i did start a thread over at general discussion because i'm an idiot and keep forgetting about feedback so instead I'm doing one better. Last time I made a post about self damage fix as self damage only, this will contain info about how to fix ALL of self damage, not just the system but the weapons too.

   Long story short, self damage, we all hate it. But i believe I have a fix for it as a whole. This applys not just to launchers, but glaives and other explosive concepts. With my extensive research into channeling, I know alot about melee. A melee mod can help us with how tofix channeling, the Shattering Impact mod.
   Shattering impact strips 6 armor on impact. This means that it will strip an enemy of 6 armor, but in specific 6 of their baseline armor and not their current lvl armor. A lvl 100 butcher could have 2,000,000 armor on him but shattering impact can completely strip it with a single hit due to a butchers armor having a value of 4.. By reducing armor baseline, we have a mod that can strip light enemies of armor. But the point is the mechanic, if we take that concept and apply it to self damage we get a golden view of what we can get. here's what I mean.

   Shattering impact strips baseline armor, so imagine if our explosives dealt baseline self damage. An ogris would only at max deal 600 blast damage no matter what warframe were running. Since most warframes at most only have 200-400 defenses unless they're a tank, we can't even take a single hit. unless were either a tank or use a defensive mod such as vigor, redirection, or vitality. Squishy frames would benefit from this as it won't instant kill a player, but tanks don't need the cautious shot mod anymore. Speaking of which
   Cautious Shot, this should return to the 90% damage reduction but have -10% damage to not kill out damage output, that or if you think this is too powerful then lets say 75% damage reduction. This means that squishy frames still need to have some caution to it. if we have the 90% damage reduction, combined with "unmodded self damage" then we have a golden middle ground for our explosives. Lets take the ogris as an example to see how this would play out. These stats will be made up but they get my point across.

"Ogris deals 2700 viral damage to enemies. self damage is 600. cautious shot self damage is 60."

   This means you can deal the thousands of damage to enemies, but with the ogris you will only ever deal 600 dmg to yourself max, or 60 at least. Unless you crit then you're fked but point being you have room to live. Self damage won't instant pop you anymore. Especially with the cautious shot, which tank warframes now no longer need to use. this makes warframes like chroma, inaros, etc etc weapon killing tanks, want to run with explosives for the most damage possible. overall here is a fix to self damage as a system overall.

Self damage should be based off baseline damage // cautious shot should be set to +90% or 75% damage reduction with -10% damage

NOW that was all in my original post, now lets move onto how we can bring the weapons in line without completely demolishing our golden rule.

   This one will take a bit of work and acceptance on DE's part as they need to accept the fact that our explosive self damage weapons need to be brought into line.

   For starts, we need a secondary AND melee cautious shot variant. "Cautious Aim" and "Cautious Strike" as place holding names. I won't speak about the cost of these as that is completly beside the point of this post so... sorry 😅. next we need cautious shot to apply to more weapons. to be specific, just let every weapon equip their version of the mod. That doesn't mean add self damage to everything, just make all weapons equip it for ease of programming. people can understand when self damage reduction is useless on a no self damage weapon. Set them to primary, Secondary, and Melee respectively.

   Next we could use a stat buff. However I said could use, not need. Our explosives have another way out if DE chooses to but that's next. For now, stat buff. Preferibly I'd like a buff to both critical and status. maybe not as insane as... tribs... 130% critical chance and 5X crit multiplier but you get it. We need something to make the weapon viable for stats. I suggest this be themed to the weapon. Crit explosives should have a MUCH higher crit multiplier like the nukor, and status should have a damage baseline boost. of course if DE finds some other stat way to change the damage output that would also help. Other options being firerate and ammo buffs. For example imagine the corinth shooting 2 explosives per second. *yes the Corinth has self damage* or the penta with 5 shots a second. To balance it we would need an increase in ammo, clip, and capacity. of course the last option can be very controversial. larger AoE. But hey that's for you all to talk about, I'm the one throwing suggestions.

   Before we can get to my favorite topic, we must talk about why i said removing self damage would be a detriment to the game. Something many youtubers seem to miss, sorry trib boy no offense. Self Damage it's a mechanic, a mechanic that affects players. Lets take a step back and look back at our warframe history. Does anyone remember savage trinity? a trinity that deals damage via her link ability with self damage. or no, lets talk eidolon hunters, chromas use self damage to boost their vex armor. Oh or how about ember, granted she could really use a rework *cough* overheated ember *cough* but seriously her passive gives her energy regen while on fire. How about garuda, it's not the usual self damage but she benefits from taking damage. Long ago there was also a point in time where self damage was helpful to nyx, where she would absorb all of the damage she fired in while assimilate was active creating a miniature nuke. Surprisingly that was the most useful thing absorb has done in recent history but hey. Nekros, he also benefits from self damage, if you lack the despoil augment where it consumes health or choose not to run with it. Self damage can be used to cut your hp so you can recover hp for your armor. Self damage can be useful for many many people and taking it would would be removing a meta that could possibly show up in the future. it's part of the reason I'm so adamant about channeling as it deserves better. Self Damage is written into our history and could have exciting implications down the line so I vote to keep it and I'll ridicule anyone who says otherwise.

   now my absolute favorite method as to how we can fix the self damage weapons. Augments and mods. Augments and mods which will bring self damage weapons up to and above our current damage, giving them an edge and more fun value at the same time. To give an example I'm ging to rip something from one of my other posts about an event called "eximus epidemic" Of course it's about eximus but the important thing here is one of my imaginary augments I made as a reward.
Falcor Augment +Falcor only deals shield self damage, Shield self damage makes energy for your warframe +90% projectile speed +25% Slash)
   If you caught that, good on you. Self damage will only affect shields and all shields lost will turn into energy. That self damage mechanic can give rise to augments similar to this. While i def think this is an op augment, it's the concept that counts. Self damage to shields only, and damage turns to energy. without self damage this augment would not be possible and a playstyle to emerge from this mod would no longer exist. How about others I can come up with off the top of my head.
Javlok Augment +javlok gains 1.5X extra critical damage on enemies who are already on fire when thrown 
Lenz Augment +user gains 1250% fire rate and infinite ammo when slowed by ice
Pox Augment +Pox now deals self damage when standing in the cloud. +While standing in the cloud gain elemental effects of the pox to all weapons.
Zarr Augment +Each enemy hit by original blast increases secondary blast critical chance by 10%
Ogris Augment + The less armor a warframe has the faster the fire rate of the Ogris
Launcher Unique (Blast damage deals 50% more damage, 75% more damage to knocked down and unconscious enemies)

   The best part about augments is the combinations and play styles that can emerge from these. For example, I know for a fact embers would benefit the most from the javlok, the Launcher augment would be super nice for vaubans, and Pox would grant weapons even more damage if you're willing to sacrifice some health. With the "Cautious Aim" mod then you're losing almost no health for status damage to weapons. This makes the pox a support weapon, only viable because of self damage. The Zarr could turn into a critical status hybrid. The ogris can be a rapid fire beast in the hands of wisp and volt. Lenz users would want to damage themselves with slow to get a stupid fire rate increase or heck even maybe stand in a cryo leak patch to gain a permanent fire rate boost. Augments can completely change the way a weapon is viewed with the right boosts, so why not do the same to our explosive weapons.

   There is alot of things DE could do to the weapons, however there is one last thing DE could do. The release of an explosive warframe, or a self damage warframe. A warframe that specializes in blast, self damage, and launchers. Kinda like Pharah. But i don't feel like making a warframe in this post soooo use your Imagination on that one.

lastly I do hear alot about this joke, "just don't use explosion weapons" or "don't blow yourself up" or "git gud" and hahaha but no, that's not athe point. jokes are nice and all, but they have impacts if taken too far. i'm an avid supporter of fair self damage. but this is dumb. I love the lenz mechanic where it gives you some time to escape. that's fair when we have self damage in the hundreds of thousands. But we don't get that luxury with other weapons. As is obvious in literally every other game self damage can be great if done right. Instant killing isn't done right. And your jokes don't help DE focus on how to correct this issue. rather it makes them ignore it that much longer. This is a truth that's been evident since self damage first came into the game, it needs to be fixed. Whether it's done by augments, warframes, abilities, mods, a system, or mechanics, changes need to be made with self damage soon because compared to other games self damage is off the walls.

P.S. thanks to trib for releasing a video yesterday, I really forgot about this. Anyways I'm off to finally play some super soaker games so sorry if i'm a bit late on any possible responses.


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