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The New War: What do the Sentients gain?


Lamash2
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So this has been bothering me for a while. As far as I understand the reason for the Old War was that the Sentients didn’t want the Orokin coming to the Tau system and destroying everything the Sentients had built.

By that definition, if that was the Sentient goal they won the Old War as much as we Tenno did. The Orokin are dead. The threat to the Tau system is ended. The Tenno are content to remain in the Origin system and none of the other factions are much of a threat to the Sentients.

So if the threat to their system is ended what do the Sentients gain by attacking the Origin system again? Especially now when the Tenno are awake?

The Tenno were perfectly happy remaining in the Origin system. As far as we were concerned the war was over. But by attacking now the Sentients force our hand. The fact that they’re coming back after their forces were annihilated and their goal achieved means that a defensive war will not bring long term peace. We have to go to the Tau system and either force a proper peace treaty on the Sentients or destroy their ability to make war entirely. 

So looking at this from the perspective of the Sentients I don’t understand what they gain by doing this. The only thing I can think of is that this is a preemptive strike because we Tenno have the potential to be a massive threat to them. 

But us attacking them was never guaranteed. And by starting the war themselves they have made this threat become a reality.  And here’s the thing, even if this war goes in their favor a large part of it will be fought in the Tau system, and there’s no way a war between us and the Sentients won’t have a TON of collateral damage. Just look at the fallout of the Old war!

What’s more, if they lose they may go extinct. And I do not understand why anyone would start a war of extinction if they don’t have to. 

TL;DR

I don’t get what the Sentients gain from this war that makes it worth the massive risk. 

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Mostly vengeance, I'd say. The Tenno killed a large amount  of sentients in The Old War, so they wanna wipe us out. And I also think that to them Tenno = Orokin (Which is technically true). Oh yeah, and the thing about kidnapping the daughter of the sentient queen

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Simple, Sentients hate anything and everything Orokin related. That includes us, Grineer, Corpus, etc...

By "cleansing" the Origin System, they might want to restore and preserve what's left in it since its their birthplace.

Edited by LogaMC1995
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Tenno are Orokin... What make you think they'll not do the same as their ancestor did?

Also, Corpus consider themself as Orokin. I just heard some dialog from capturing target calling us 'Betrayer'. Although, not as bad as the Orokin. If either Grineer or Corpus dominating one another. Maybe they'll also targeted Tau next.

PS. Also, just a speculation. We may have Sentient friends/Colonies who will help us when we finally reach Tau.

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I think the problem lies in resources at this point. Considering the time line the Tau system is probably saturated now, and they need new ground if they want to reproduce and progress further. 

The fact they can also avenge their old grudges and cleanse the last vestiges of the Orokins is just a bonus imo. 

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13 minutes ago, Bryuf said:

Mostly vengeance, I'd say. The Tenno killed a large amount  of sentients in The Old War, so they wanna wipe us out. And I also think that to them Tenno = Orokin (Which is technically true). Oh yeah, and the thing about kidnapping the daughter of the sentient queen

I don’t understand why that is worth the risk of utter annihilation

12 minutes ago, LogaMC1995 said:

Simple, Sentients hate anything and everything Orokin related. That includes us, Grineer, Corpus, etc...

By "cleansing" the Origin System, they might want to restore and preserve what's left in it since its their birthplace.

In that case why only attack again now? We Tenno have been asleep for centuries. Why wait to come back until after the Origin System again until it gets its strongest defenders back?

9 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

Tenno are Orokin... What make you think they'll not do the same as their ancestor did?

Also, Corpus consider themself as Orokin. I just heard some dialog from capturing target calling us 'Betrayer'. Although, not as bad as the Orokin. If either Grineer or Corpus dominating one another. Maybe they'll also targeted Tau next.

PS. Also, just a speculation. We may have Sentient friends/Colonies who will help us when we finally reach Tau.

But that is all a potential threat, not a guaranteed one. The Orokin sent the Sentients to terraform the Tau system, so they were definitely coming. They were a guaranteed threat, and thus worth the risk. Risking the destruction of your entire species on a theoretical threat is... well kind of insane.

Edited by Lamash2
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Just now, Autongnosis said:

I think the problem lies in resources at this point. Considering the time line the Tau system is probably saturated now, and they need new ground if they want to reproduce and progress further. 

The fact they can also avenge their old grudges and cleanse the last vestiges of the Orokins is just a bonus imo. 

But there are many many other systems out there which don’t carry the threat of war. Hell, the Tau system is closer to a number of systems than it is to the Origin system. And the Sentients were designed for terraforming, they can go to any system they want. Why go to the one system in the Galaxy that you know will make an active attempt to kill you?

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Just now, Lamash2 said:

But that is all a potential threat, not a guaranteed one. The Orokin sent the Sentients to terraform the Tau system, so they were definitely coming. They were a guaranteed threat, and thus worth the risk. Risking the destruction of your entire species on a theoretical threat is... well kind of insane.

They don't. That is why Amalgam series are born.

As far as I know. Other than fighter, Sentients also have citizen that still stay on Tau. That is why I speculated that we may encounter those who don't want to fight and may either ignore or aid us in trying to live together in peace.

The other one is that... The void that gave us power may be a bigger threat than we expected. That is why they need to destroy us as soon as possible.

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il y a 4 minutes, Lamash2 a dit :

But there are many many other systems out there which don’t carry the threat of war. Hell, the Tau system is closer to a number of systems than it is to the Origin system. And the Sentients were designed for terraforming, they can go to any system they want. Why go to the one system in the Galaxy that you know will make an active attempt to kill you?

I'm not entirely sure it's as easy as you say to move through intersystem space. Orokin didn't actually have intergalactic travel, they used the rails. I think going to other systems rather than Origin would be a very wasteful endeavour in terms of time and resources, to the point where even an actively hostile system might be preferable. 

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2 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

They don't. That is why Amalgam series are born.

As far as I know. Other than fighter, Sentients also have citizen that still stay on Tau. That is why I speculated that we may encounter those who don't want to fight and may either ignore or aid us in trying to live together in peace.

The other one is that... The void that gave us power may be a bigger threat than we expected. That is why they need to destroy us as soon as possible.

If the New War was confined to the Origin system then yes using Amalgams would mean minimal risk. But attacking like this draws the Tenno into the Tau system, which is a huge risk.

As for allied or neutral Sentient, I had never considered the possibility. I really hope they do that, that would be awesome.

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3 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:

I'm not entirely sure it's as easy as you say to move through intersystem space. Orokin didn't actually have intergalactic travel, they used the rails. I think going to other systems rather than Origin would be a very wasteful endeavour in terms of time and resources, to the point where even an actively hostile system might be preferable. 

First off moving through intersystem space is time consuming yes but they had to do it the first time in order to get to the Tau system to begin with. Also from what we’ve seen Sentients are near immortal so the time between stars (say 10-20 years at a reasonable speed) would not be a problem for them. 

Also they become barren when they use void travel to come to the Origin system. So coming here rather than going somewhere else doesn’t net them anything in terms of colonization.

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5 minutes ago, Corvid said:

We don't currently have a means of getting to Tau, what with the Outer Terminus being damaged and all. Taking us out now is effectively risk free for the wider Sentient civilisation.

But right now we’re also not trying to get to Tau. Attacking us like this guarantees that we’ll start trying. Unless they can wipe us out before we succeed in reaching Tau they’re going to be fighting this war on their home turf. 

But you may be right, they might be sufficiently arrogant to think they could pull that off.

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Any number of reasons from the need of every civilization to expand to vengeance to simply seeing the Tenno as a threat still.

Consider that the Sentients know the Tenno and Warframes still exist and that they can still take out the Sentients. Consider that the Tenno took the Sentients down in the Old War.
That alone is enough reason to attack and to attack before the Tenno are too well organized and become the main power in the Solar System (I know we feel like it but really, there are no Tenno controlled spheres in the Solar System that we know of).

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32 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

Tenno are Orokin... What make you think they'll not do the same as their ancestor did?

Also, Corpus consider themself as Orokin. I just heard some dialog from capturing target calling us 'Betrayer'. Although, not as bad as the Orokin. If either Grineer or Corpus dominating one another. Maybe they'll also targeted Tau next.

PS. Also, just a speculation. We may have Sentient friends/Colonies who will help us when we finally reach Tau.

Like hunhow who wants his daughter back and he has an army himself on lua that can help us if he actually is still alive 

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iirc per vitruvian the sentients dont want "humans" aka "orokin" ruing their paradise worlds they have terraformed 

lead to old war which they lost , and then we tenno took our the orokin elite (stalkers codex) across the system simultaneously

now the sentients are restored to a fighting capability of forces and simply want to again prevent humans from screwing up their worlds, universe ECT

except this time they seem on a path to not only prevent us from doing the whole ruining of their worlds, but also to convert us to be like them aka amalgums 

this is probably due to sentient hive mind or mind collective, the larger units "parents" can control their fragments or force them to obey their commands and be used as a "drone army:

this i believe is stemmed from their awareness, as hunhow and his mate (the sentient space base)  both probably gained sentience naturally and combined to create natah (lotus) who they purposefully created to have comparable sentience / intelligence given her "spy, infiltrator" roll required it

so if people are then grafted or merged with drone units its possible they can be manipulated or inherently controlled by the derived sentient itself 

 thus they have moved from being replicators and now to be more like the Borg 

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1 minute ago, Corvid said:

You're assuming that we'll be in a position to do so.

Well, yeah. Nothing they have done so far has in any way threatened our industry or R&D. So I do assume we’ll start trying. If you mean we won’t be capable of launching an attack I strongly disagree. We proved in the Old war that we are a match for the Sentients. So of course we would be able to launch an attack once we have access to the Tau system. Assuming anything less is massively underestimating us.

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5 minutes ago, uAir said:

Any number of reasons from the need of every civilization to expand to vengeance to simply seeing the Tenno as a threat still.

Consider that the Sentients know the Tenno and Warframes still exist and that they can still take out the Sentients. Consider that the Tenno took the Sentients down in the Old War.
That alone is enough reason to attack and to attack before the Tenno are too well organized and become the main power in the Solar System (I know we feel like it but really, there are no Tenno controlled spheres in the Solar System that we know of).

I don’t think that the need for a civilization to expand makes sense. I’ve spoken on that earlier in this forum but the TL;DR is that there are a lot of other systems that would be easier to colonize and using void travel to reach the Origin system renders them barren anyway. 

I don’t think that a potential threat is a logical reason to start a war of extermination. By that logic if you have a nuclear weapon, and so does someone else who may one day oppose you then you should definitely fire on them before they build any more, because maybe one day they might be a threat. Thus guaranteeing that they will use that weapon on you now. 

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7 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

iirc per vitruvian the sentients dont want "humans" aka "orokin" ruing their paradise worlds they have terraformed 

lead to old war which they lost , and then we tenno took our the orokin elite (stalkers codex) across the system simultaneously

now the sentients are restored to a fighting capability of forces and simply want to again prevent humans from screwing up their worlds, universe ECT

except this time they seem on a path to not only prevent us from doing the whole ruining of their worlds, but also to convert us to be like them aka amalgums 

this is probably due to sentient hive mind or mind collective, the larger units "parents" can control their fragments or force them to obey their commands and be used as a "drone army:

this i believe is stemmed from their awareness, as hunhow and his mate (the sentient space base)  both probably gained sentience naturally and combined to create natah (lotus) who they purposefully created to have comparable sentience / intelligence given her "spy, infiltrator" roll required it

so if people are then grafted or merged with drone units its possible they can be manipulated or inherently controlled by the derived sentient itself 

 thus they have moved from being replicators and now to be more like the Borg 

If you’re right about the hive mind that would explain a lot and be really cool.

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15 minutes ago, Lamash2 said:

I don’t think that the need for a civilization to expand makes sense. I’ve spoken on that earlier in this forum but the TL;DR is that there are a lot of other systems that would be easier to colonize and using void travel to reach the Origin system renders them barren anyway. 

I don’t think that a potential threat is a logical reason to start a war of extermination. By that logic if you have a nuclear weapon, and so does someone else who may one day oppose you then you should definitely fire on them before they build any more, because maybe one day they might be a threat. Thus guaranteeing that they will use that weapon on you now. 

The thinking is missing that it's a matter of retaliation potential.  In the real world, USA's enemies don't actively nuke us because the USA can nuke back, and even if we couldn't, other nations could nuke in retaliation.  "Mutually assured destruction" is ironically the best peace-keeping mentality humanity has ever had.

In Warframe, the Sentients attack the origin system and it's not like we can just go to Tau and start laying waste to their worlds, nor are there other star-traveling races/factions out there that will strike Tau simply because they agree that attacking the Origin system is not cool.  The sentient's war on the Orokin (and their descendants) is more akin to us spraying down a hornets nest with wasp killer before it becomes a real problem for our home.  You're not under any real threat right now, but in time you could be.

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