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All Abilities Should "evolve" With Mastery Rank


Vultor
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Aren't you tired of your old abilities? For many warframes, 2 or 3 of their abilities are useless/not really necessary against high level ennemies.

 

Besides isn't it annoying to start a weak new warframe when you have a rank mastery lvl 8 or higher?

 

Personally with my frost I'm never using the 1st, 2nd and Ultimate, which sucks...

 

I suggest you post your opinion about the general changes that should affect all/some abilities. In my opinion it should be :

 

1. Damage scaling with mastery rank

2. AOE scaling or multiplication (two Venoms/pull/ice waves casted for the price of one and at the same time)

3. New abilities only available after a certain mastery rank that would replace old ones

4. YOU DECIDE!

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Aren't you tired of your old abilities? For many warframes, 2 or 3 of their abilities are useless/not really necessary against high level ennemies.

 

Besides isn't it annoying to start a weak new warframe when you have a rank mastery lvl 8 or higher?

 

Personally with my frost I'm never using the 1st, 2nd and Ultimate, which sucks...

 

I suggest you post your opinion about the general changes that should affect all/some abilities. In my opinion it should be :

 

1. Damage scaling with mastery rank

2. AOE scaling or multiplication (two Venoms/pull/ice waves casted for the price of one and at the same time)

3. New abilities only available after a certain mastery rank that would replace old ones

4. YOU DECIDE!

 

Say we do this and what will happen after that?

 

NERF THREADS ALL OVER AGAIN.

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Well... I don't know that I want exactly what the OP wrote...

 

but I'm strongly ambivalent about the idea of having "mastery points" you can put into account-wide stats, which could include things like increased Ability Power or Range.

 

I feel like there's no practical way to make this work in the way that I want, which is to support playstyle, versus the way that it almost always works which is to enforce a higher standard of build optimization.

 

The two closest things I can think of are either, one, add your Mastery Rank to either your Warframe's or to each equipped item's mod capacity; or two, give fixed increases to certain attributes at certain ranks (eg, +2 armor, +30 max health, +10 max energy, etc).  The second choice gives you a tangible increase in effectiveness (especially with new frames, as the OP mentions) but doesn't emphasize optimization; the first choice basically just embraces optimization without adding in new complexity layers.

 

Edit : Although, I gotta say, I wouldn't mind unlocking an additional rank to each Ability with a high-enough Mastery.  That'd be pretty cool.

Edited by noneuklid
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And they are children if they do. If you gain skill with MASTERY CREDITS BOSS KILLS FARMING SPENDING LOTS OF PLATINUM ON AFFINITY BOOSTERS INFILTRATING DE AND STEALTH HACKING IT INTO THE GAME no one should be complaining nerf because you actually deserve it.

 

fixed.  took me a minute.

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In many games, there are tons of effects, powers activated and no lag. I think DE's should communicate better about the importance of opening ports (3960 & 3962 UDP).

 

Damage and AOE scaling (if balanced) would not be OP). It would just add enough dmg so casting my abilities vs mobs lvl 60 or higher become useful again.

 

I'm using Frost, and I played with Mag and Saryn.

 

Frost 2 first abilities are so @(*()$ useless and even his ultimate (cooldown after the cast, you can't move or protect yourself... yeah :'(

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I think with your Frost example is that he is just a hugely overrated frame with one single redeeming power (admittedly a pretty decent one) and absolutely. Nothing. Else.

I think the changes we actually need are just balance passes so that every frame has their niche and all their abilities have some use. With Frost, the non-snowglobe abilities are just too much of a waste of energy to even bother equipping.

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I think [...] with Frost, the non-snowglobe abilities are just too much of a waste of energy to even bother equipping.

 

If you recognize that some abilities (for all frames) are useless, then do you agree we should balance (scale or modify) them? If yes, how?

 

I think I like the idea of having fixed bonuses per mastery rank that apply to all/some (DEs will decide I guess) abilities. These bonuses could be :

1. Damage

2. Reduced casting time

3. Reduced recovery time after casting

4. AOE ? (only for some abilities, and very well balanced to avoid "OP complaints")

Edited by Vultor
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1. Damage scaling with mastery rank

2. AOE scaling or multiplication (two Venoms/pull/ice waves casted for the price of one and at the same time)

3. New abilities only available after a certain mastery rank that would replace old ones

4. YOU DECIDE!

Oh yes, because we totally need another way for this game to be pay to win. Anyone with the plat to rush items, buy items with reactors/catalysts already installed, and buy affinity boosters is going to get these power boosts and advantages crazy fast.

 

but I'm strongly ambivalent about the idea of having "mastery points" you can put into account-wide stats, which could include things like increased Ability Power or Range.

 

This, however, I could get behind: a skill system that would basically be permanent mods for all of your things, but not nearly as high-scaling and bound to your mastery rank. This way, even low-level players could get bonuses based upon their preferred playstyle without encouraging mass-buying of affinity boosters and speed-leveling. The system could even separate things into trees for Warframes, Primary, Secondary, and Melee. Depending on how much of a bonus each point in the tree gave you, leveling up would grant you either one point you have to be selective with (but gives a more significant boost) or a point in each tree that can allow for wider customization (with a lesser boost).

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You don't gain skill with mastery rank.  Before anything is based off of mastery rank, they should look into making it progress without allowing people to leech it.

 

All you have to do for mastery rank is play a few rounds in Kiste with a completely different weapon/frame.  It's not hard to beef your mastery rank without knowing a damn thing about Warframe.

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You don't gain skill with mastery rank.  Before anything is based off of mastery rank, they should look into making it progress without allowing people to leech it.

 

All you have to do for mastery rank is play a few rounds in Kiste with a completely different weapon/frame.  It's not hard to beef your mastery rank without knowing a damn thing about Warframe.

 

The rank-up tests are their efforts to control that as best they can, Thaumatos. Really, though, how would you suggest they do it better? As an experience system that makes you utilize different items to make you see what you like vs what you don't, it's fine. It's frankly really hard to force a player to "learn a d*** thing" with an experience and ranking system. They did well, all things considered.

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The gulf between casual and hardcore will be too great with buffs to stats or abilities.

We already got people asking people their mastery levels (before conclave) and now mastery levels AND conclave score for certain game types.

 

We do not need to create such segregation, more min maxing (face it, certain skill modification or stat combos are just "better") or meta game. It is terrible for new player experience. Heck on my end, I have went along and brought Conclave score 800+ clan members to T3 Defence (myself is close to 1.5k depending on frame).

 

I am sure those weaker guys without clans won't have such luck.

 

 

Anyhow I always advocate use Mastery ranks to give Warframe or weapon slots.

Every 2 ranks you get to choose, 1 war frame slot or 2 weapon slots.

 

Yes it might not look like much to founders like me, but it helps to retain free players. 

Edited by fatpig84
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What are you doing? Trying to sell a car? Would you like to provide actual feedback as opposed to a marketing scheme?

 

On the idea that you're proposing, I don't think it would be a great idea because the frames need to be equal for all players, and newer players won't be able to get nearly as much power as the more experienced players. Experienced players have mastery rank locked weapons, we don't need mastery scales on abilities as well.

 

If you're bored of your frames, try them with a new mod set, since you can have 3 now. Play with different weapons than you normally would, mod them differently.

 

If you scale abilities, you throw out the balance of the game.

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And they are children if they do. If you gain skill with MASTERY no one should be complaining nerf because you actually deserve it.

 

WHAT ?!

 

Let me just say this about skill and warframe :-

 

1. There is no skill required in the game.

2. There is no skill acquired by passing those tests which are same no matter how many times you do it.

3. Time spent is NOT skill.

 

And lastly, what you deserve by having mastery is access to high tier weapons. Thats already a bit too much.

 

So no, I oppose the idea presented in the OP.

 

Instead I prefer what this guy has said :

 

The gulf between casual and hardcore will be too great with buffs to stats or abilities.

We already got people asking people their mastery levels (before conclave) and now mastery levels AND conclave score for certain game types.

 

We do not need to create such segregation, more min maxing (face it, certain skill modification or stat combos are just "better") or meta game. It is terrible for new player experience. Heck on my end, I have went along and brought Conclave score 800+ clan members to T3 Defence (myself is close to 1.5k depending on frame).

 

I am sure those weaker guys without clans won't have such luck.

 

 

Anyhow I always advocate use Mastery ranks to give Warframe or weapon slots.

Every 2 ranks you get to choose, 1 war frame slot or 2 weapon slots.

 

Yes it might not look like much to founders like me, but it helps to retain free players. 

 

Completely agree.

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If you recognize that some abilities (for all frames) are useless, then do you agree we should balance (scale or modify) them? If yes, how?

 

I think I like the idea of having fixed bonuses per mastery rank that apply to all/some (DEs will decide I guess) abilities. These bonuses could be :

1. Damage

2. Reduced casting time

3. Reduced recovery time after casting

4. AOE ? (only for some abilities, and very well balanced to avoid "OP complaints")

I did mention we should balance the frames. (By every frame, I meant EVERY frame, although some are pretty close to perfect like Excalibur, who needs a few bug fixes).

With Frost, snow globe needs to be toned down, and all the other abilities brought up in utility.

 

Freeze should receive an aoe projectile (upgradeable with mod rank and Stretch), and it shouldn't break with damage.

 

Ice Wave is a bit harder. I think it would be interesting to have it trap the affected enemies for a few seconds, making it much more viable as crowd control, and giving it some defensive utility against chokepoints (remember that frost is a defensive-oriented frame).

 

Snow globe should get a duration reduction. Something around ~12 seconds (still affected by continuity/constitution), and it should block both incoming AND outgoing bullets/projectiles. Now, it still fulfills the same purpose, but its not a free invincibility shield against all sides, meaning to damage enemies, you have to move out of the globe, and duck back in to recover. Because, lets be honest, everyone would cry if it had a damage cap. Oh and buff energy cost to 75.

 

Avalanche should keep enemies frozen for some time afterwards, giving it some CC ability. I'd also consider reducing the range to ~10m radius. Because right now, anything past level 30 wont take significant damage from it.

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Good ideas overall.

Why not add the possibility of modding our abilities ?  (1 mod added every 2 or 3 ranks to a max of 4)

I know it could sound like modding mods but abilities are different from other mods, so we could have a separate thread for managing the abilities.

Edited by From_Orion
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I did mention we should balance the frames.

 

I don't always agree with EC, but they should still be required watching for participating in this kind of discussion.

 

http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/perfect-imbalance

 

Why not add the possibility of modding our abilities ?  (1 mod added every 2 or 3 ranks to a max of 4)

I know it could sound like modding mods but abilities are different from other mods, so we could have a separate thread for managing the abilities.

 

I'm actually kinda surprised they didn't go this route and make (Warframe) abilities equipables like weapons.

Edited by noneuklid
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