What exactly am I supposed to do about this?

[(PSN)sister-hawk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4T-kwxmxMA

There are two clips. In the first as I go to hit the corrupted lancer, I can see that he throws a grenade at me, which I've figured out by this point are sticky grenades. So I naturally assumed that, as with latchers maggots and leeches, I could roll to shrug the grenade off. Apparently that is not the case. I was too busy looking at the ground trying to find the damn thing so I could avoid the explosion to see the barely visible little trail indicating it was still stuck to Nyx's hip. And of course it nearly killed me. Had the mission been just a bit higher level, it would have been a one-hit.

In the second clip I'm really not sure what exactly happened. As you can see I'm at full health with nearly full shields, and standing next to a mind controlled corrupted ancient, which is supposed to provide "massive damage resistance." And yet, something still deletes me from existence. It was a little higher level mission and I'm going to assume it was a grenade from that lancer up on the balcony, but I can neither see nor hear one being thrown.

This kind of thing has been happening to me a lot lately and I feel like it's a pretty clear sign of one if the biggest problems with Warframe. What was I supposed to have done in either of these instances? Why is it possible in an average everyday mission to receive such large bursts of damage out of nowhere? Of course I could have used absorb to save/protect Nyx, but is the solution really just "be unkillable at all times?" Is that really how we want this game to be played? Either you are always invincible or fear being killed in one hit with no idea of what happened? That does not appeal to me very much.

Edit: Neither of these clips are from T4 Void.

Edited August 4, 2019 by (PS4)sister-hawk

[krc473]

Nyx is not a durable frame. Absorb is how you mitigate the risk of dying due to squishiness. Saying ‘but I don’t want to’ is your choice, but you are contributing to your own issue.

• You could play a more durable frame. I barely notice the grenades, they just explode somewhere and I might take a little damage (Sorties).

The other option is to kill more efficiently. If everyone is dead there is no problem. Moving around more is also an option, but I am not going to suggest this as it doesn’t actually stop you getting killed.

 

The second clip looks like you just got shot by something. Maybe there was a Sniper. Perhaps a Nulifier, I don’t know how they interact with the DR aura.

[IspanoLFW]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)sister-hawk said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4T-kwxmxMA

There are two clips. In the first as I go to hit the corrupted lancer, I can see that he throws a grenade at me, which I've figured out by this point are sticky grenades. So I naturally assumed that, as with latchers maggots and leeches, I could roll to shrug the grenade off. Apparently that is not the case. I was too busy looking at the ground trying to find the damn thing so I could avoid the explosion to see the barely visible little trail indicating it was still stuck to Nyx's hip. And of course it nearly killed me. Had the mission been just a bit higher level, it would have been a one-hit.

In the second clip I'm really not sure what exactly happened. As you can see I'm at full health with nearly full shields, and standing next to a mind controlled corrupted ancient, which is supposed to provide "massive damage resistance." And yet, something still deletes me from existence. It was a little higher level mission and I'm going to assume it was a grenade from that lancer up on the balcony, but I can neither see nor hear one being thrown.

This kind of thing has been happening to me a lot lately and I feel like it's a pretty clear sign of one if the biggest problems with Warframe. What was I supposed to have done in either of these instances? Why is it possible in an average everyday mission to receive such large bursts of damage out of nowhere? Of course I could have used absorb to save/protect Nyx, but is the solution really just "be unkillable at all times?" Is that really how we want this game to be played? Either you are always invincible or fear being killed in one hit with no idea of what happened? That does not appeal to me very much.

It was a grenade both times. I heard it clearly in the second clip to your right, hence why you blasted off to the left. As for the first, they usually can't hit you with the grenades so they usally just hit the ground and explode there. Like it did in the second clip. Also, the second clip looked like it was T4 void, which means enemies have 300% damage. Though even if not, the grenades are still pretty deadly.

 

If you were on PC, you could use Semlar's Death Log.

Edited August 4, 2019 by IspanoLFW

[(PSN)sister-hawk]

1 minute ago, krc473 said:

all this nonsense

Ok everything you're saying is an indicator of bad game design. Why do I need to play a "more durable frame" in order to not constantly be at risk of insta-death? Why is enemy damaged balanced around the expectation that the player should be walking around with 95% damage resistance? And "kill more efficiently" is a complete cop-out. What you are saying is everything in the room needs to be dead the moment it spawns or I should expect to die. People complain that this game is too easy but then tell you you have to use the meta or suffer.

[Firetempest]

Well. T4 void does 200% damage to their level and I do believe enemy snipers will get a crit if you turn your back on them.

[IspanoLFW]

1 minute ago, (PS4)sister-hawk said:

Ok everything you're saying is an indicator of bad game design. Why do I need to play a "more durable frame" in order to not constantly be at risk of insta-death? Why is enemy damaged balanced around the expectation that the player should be walking around with 95% damage resistance? And "kill more efficiently" is a complete cop-out. What you are saying is everything in the room needs to be dead the moment it spawns or I should expect to die. People complain that this game is too easy but then tell you you have to use the meta or suffer.

Except he's not wrong. You don't have to use absorb at all times. You could of just used it to face tank the grenade damage in a pinch.

[IspanoLFW]

Just now, Firetempest said:

Well. T4 void does 200% damage to their level and I do believe enemy snipers will get a crit if you turn your back on them.

As I told him it was actually a grenade.

[(PSN)sister-hawk]

7 minutes ago, IspanoLFW said:

I heard it clearly in the second clip to your right, hence why you blasted off to the left.

Are you saying you could hear it coming, or you simply recognize the sound of the explosion? Because I have no idea how I was supposed to know that I was about to be blown to kingdom come.

Edited August 4, 2019 by (PS4)sister-hawk

[IspanoLFW]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)sister-hawk said:

Are you saying you could hear it coming, or you simply recognize the sound of the explosion? Because I have no idea how I was supposed to know that I was about to be blown to kingdom come.

It was a syndicate mission. I'm familiar with T4 void and nothing else in the mission was doing anywhere near that much damage.

If the mission is on a T4 Void node, I believe it still applies. And yes, I heard the grenade beeping in both clips. They beep before they explode, for a good 4 seconds. I heard it off to the right as you ran up to the group. In that situation I would of not run up to that group til it went off, or went another way.

Edited August 4, 2019 by IspanoLFW

[(PSN)sister-hawk]

6 minutes ago, IspanoLFW said:

Except he's not wrong. You don't have to use absorb at all times. You could of just used it to face tank the grenade damage in a pinch.

Ok the thing is I'm not looking for advice on how to be more durable. Maybe I wasn't clear about that part. I know how to not die. The point is, why must I either mitigate the vast majority of the damage being dealt to me or literally be invincible? Why are there such enormous gaps in the maximum and minimum amount of damage enemies can deal even within a single mission? And why does the game 1) allow players such a ridiculous degree of durability and 2) balance enemy damage around said durability?

7 minutes ago, IspanoLFW said:

And yes, I heard the grenade beeping in both clips.

I really don't believe you. That sounds rude but I'm honestly not trying to be. I have watched the second clip again and again, and I can hear absolutely no indicator of a grenade.

[IspanoLFW]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)sister-hawk said:

Ok the thing is I'm not looking for advice on how to be more durable. Maybe I wasn't clear about that part. I know how to not die. The point is, why must I either mitigate the vast majority of the damage being dealt to me or literally be invincible? Why are there such enormous gaps in the maximum and minimum amount of damage enemies can deal even within a single mission? And why does the game 1) allow players such a ridiculous degree of durability and 2) balance enemy damage around said durability?

I really don't believe you. That sounds rude but I'm honestly not trying to be. I have watched the second clip again and again, and I can hear absolutely no indicator of a grenade.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Plasma_Grenade

"Grenades can be heard by a loud, analogue-like beeping which will rapidly grow in pace as time grows closer to the grenades detonation."

Obviously as you got into the thick of it and started blasting things it got harder to hear it. But before you started shooting, at the 0:18-0:20 second area, it's clear as day it's beeping off to your right.

Also. "Damage scales with enemy level." This is why the second one one shot you, while the first did not.

When I learned to play shooters, your ears were a very important tool. So I don't really care if you believe me or not. They beep, and they did in your videos.

And they're grenades, of course they're going to hurt.

Edited August 4, 2019 by IspanoLFW

[akots]

These were corpus grenades in both cases, I can certainly hear them. They can take down a full health Nezha with 2.5K intact halo without even sneezing in a T4 void mission. So, your Nyx should not survive these. The ways to survive: 1) use some really durable frame; 2) run for your life, jump and latch to wall, just get out of the blast radius somehow; 3) emergency void mode; 4) maxed adaptation with good armor; 5) anything that grants temporary invulnerability (rolling guard, hysteria, etc).

Edited August 4, 2019 by akots

[krc473]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)sister-hawk said:

Why do I need to play a "more durable frame" in order to not constantly be at risk of insta-death?

You don’t, and you don’t need Meta gear either. My suggestions were based on what you showed. I am not suggesting insta-death to all enemies. You seem to lack damage and enemies are not dying. That is where the ‘kill efficiently’ thing comes in.

18 minutes ago, (PS4)sister-hawk said:

I have watched the second clip again and again, and I can hear absolutely no indicator of a grenade

Look at around 20 secs in, before you start using the Amprex. There is a grenade beeping. I cannot hear it over the Amprex, so maybe that one was a grenade too.

 

As others stated, T4 Void has a buff to enemy damage. You have to consider that if you are running the missions.

[Awazx]

It is a common mistake that has not been addressed for years. Imagine wearing a full Inaros, 6k of life, 600 armor, adaptation ... and die of 1 shot? Yes, it happens, and it happens many times.

[CastIronNest]

I'm not going to defend Warframe's scaling problems but I will say that these T4 void missions are the part of the game where stats like armor, damage reduction, damage ect. start to interact with less numerical "game knowledge" mechanics like the accuracy reductions enemies suffer based on your speed, becoming familiar with / learning to play around the specific tools your enemy units have available to them, ect.

It might be frustrating, and it's arguably not as well-designed as it could be, but you're at a point where getting one-shot is a possibility. Scale up enough and even the most "durable" Warframes will die if they take any damage because the numbers just get that big. Getting something more "durable" for T4 Void isn't your only option by any means - Ivara is one of the best frames for crazy high level missions after all - but you will have to change how you play one way or another to survive at those levels.

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

43 minutes ago, (PS4)sister-hawk said:

Is that really how we want this game to be played? Either you are always invincible or fear being killed in one hit with no idea of what happened? That does not appeal to me very much.

Unfortunately that's just how the game can be, sometimes you just aren't going to see it coming. I play Nyx a fair amount and find the Quick Thinking mod very helpful in these situations, might want to give it a try. 

[FlyingDice]

Other people have said everything relevant re: hearing the grenade beeps, not expecting squishy frames to be durable, not standing in the metaphorical fire, &c., so I'll summarize:

Edited August 4, 2019 by FlyingDice

[Kaotyke]

47 minutes ago, (PS4)sister-hawk said:

I really don't believe you. That sounds rude but I'm honestly not trying to be. I have watched the second clip again and again, and I can hear absolutely no indicator of a grenade.

You should. Go to your 9/17s in the video.

Notice "ti...ti..ti..ti.tititititittiiiiiiii"

[Aldain]

These grenades make me wonder why the enemies bother using guns, all they would need to do is throw those around and the Tenno would be extinct within a week.

[bibmobello]

6 minutes ago, Aldain said:

These grenades make me wonder why the enemies bother using guns, all they would need to do is throw those around and the Tenno would be extinct within a week.

In fact corpus mine ospreys and the lanka of corpus nullfiers killed millions of frames already.

BTW in the video the ancient seems to punch you with a right hook. 🙂

Edited August 4, 2019 by bibmobello

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

5 hours ago, (PS4)sister-hawk said:

Ok everything you're saying is an indicator of bad game design. Why do I need to play a "more durable frame" in order to not constantly be at risk of insta-death? Why is enemy damaged balanced around the expectation that the player should be walking around with 95% damage resistance? And "kill more efficiently" is a complete cop-out. What you are saying is everything in the room needs to be dead the moment it spawns or I should expect to die. People complain that this game is too easy but then tell you you have to use the meta or suffer.

Ok, right off the bat you should be informed that Nyx is just straight up a terrible frame. And just about every other frame outside of Banshee could’ve very likely survived that grenade. Also, If I’m not mistaken you were doing an Axi fissure and enemies that come in from fissures deal increased damage, and you’re already going up against level 40s....with a Nyx...and you didn’t even cast her 3 to help you with surviving better.

So actually I’m going to choke this up to you not playing the frame the way it’s designed to be played that lead to your death in that clip.

[Duality52]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Also, If I’m not mistaken you were doing an Axi fissure and enemies that come in from fissures deal increased damage, and you’re already going up against level 40s....with a Nyx...and you didn’t even cast her 3 to help you with surviving better.

That's only for the second part, but the first part being a near-instant kill for a Level 25 or so is also alarming.

Not only that, but those grenades are the same as the Corpus. There was a post on the Subreddit that instantly downed even a Nidus and the Defense Target in a Sortie 3. Anyone that isn't Inaros is good as dead.

[nslay]

7 hours ago, (PS4)sister-hawk said:

Edit: Neither of these clips are from T4 Void.

 

Doesn't matter. The grenades can hit hard even at low level. There was a string of posts a month or two ago with players showing snippets of mission logs of coded names for grenades one-shotting their pets/companions, themselves, allies, etc...

The key is to listen for the repetitive "beep" sound and running the moment you hear it!

[Stargazer_Libra]

Welcome to one of the main issues in Warframe, this crap can happen at any level with any frame. I've used tanky frames, I've used frames with a huge amount of shield and HP, even frames known for being durable or unkillable, will happen no matter what usually. And it is a common cop-out that people use a lot in defense of the game or to simply tell a player they aren't being efficient enough, which is said so often in many situations the actual core problems of the game don't get addressed. When people tell you that you can't or shouldn't use a frame, when all should technically be playable albeit some suited more for different roles, that points to some design problem where you have to either stick to certain frames (ones you may not use, like, whatever) to survive in general, spam the hell out of abilities (not entirely a negative, but is kind of ridiculous in some aspects that you MUST, or WILL die, though that doesn't help when getting instant KO'd by a shot from nowhere) or you have to grind for certain mods and arcanes that are ACTUALLY effective for survivability. The fact that people tell you that you have to also need to have high "kill efficiancy" (kill everything as fast as possible before you die), is a gameplay element of Warframe that has developed as a result of powercreep and scaling problems the game has had for some time.

Those at a point where they have all those necessary mods and whatnot, use only certain frames, etc. are the ones usually content with this system. These are issues in other games that either aren't there, or much easier to manage damage reduction and such, but nothing can really topple the merciless scaling system unless you use certain things, or play a certain way as some clearly indicate with their suggestions. I've also been one who has experienced being taken out along with a defense target in one blast by what I assume was likely a grenade. I can take a loss due to my own failings or a mistake, even sometimes tolerate the one shot b.s., but dying to bad mechanics is another matter entirely. But many seem content with these issues in the game, despite the numerous complaints about them, so likely it will never change. Now I think you can see some causes for burnout or people giving the game breaks if not possibly going to another game entirely and forgetting about Warframe. 

And as you may now know, pointing out the scaling issues and such won't earn you any fans in this game.

[Stargazer_Libra]

7 hours ago, Aldain said:

These grenades make me wonder why the enemies bother using guns, all they would need to do is throw those around and the Tenno would be extinct within a week.

I've wondered this myself often.