My expectations on Vauban as a Vauban main

[Rathalio]

First of all, sorry if you are ennoyed by an other thread about Vauban but that's the time to do it.

I waited a bit to take my time to sum up my proposition with all ideas and remove some that could not work well or be realistic or simply doesn't fit with Vauban's kit.

As a Vauban main and veteran (~3000h in game and Vauban as first used warframe), I have some feelings for the actual kit Vauban has. I'm convinced that a rework should not be a full redesign, Vauban identity should be preserved as much as it is possible, if you want so much changes just ask for a new warframe !
Actually in Warframe, we have 4 main class in the meta : dammage dealers, tanks, buffers/supports, crowd controllers.
It's not a surprise for anyone if I say that dammage dealers and tanks are the actual top used warframes & most efficient ones in the game in general. Tanks are super used to mitigate enemies increasing power and DPS warframes just kill everything before it can do something else than dying. Supports & CC warframes were fully in the meta when in warframe we had some harder gamemodes to play which were not artificially hard (like staying hours in a survival) such as Raids and also when warframe movements were slower or we just didn't obliterate everything in seconds.
Actually Vauban is fully oriented on CC and works well for CC but only for CC. There is a lot of warframes that have hybrid kits and work well because of that and so I think it could be the best way to make Vauban better. He is not a support/buffer nor a DPS nor a tank.
- Making Vauban a buffer hybrid with CC seams to not be the best idea since that wont bring him much power and we should focus on what is actually working the best and fits the best.
- So tank or DPS ? My opinion on that is making a tank with a CC warframe seams to be paradoxal, why tanking enemies that will not be able to hurt you most of the time ?
Since Vauban has an interesting kit with a certain complexity, I think making it a CC + DPS hybrid would be a nice idea and it seams also to be coherent with is recently updated passive. And I hope that with some love he could be campared with Mag and her super interesting kit with a great dammage scaling potential and a really good uses in high level content.

Vauban :

Passive - Dismantle :

For a passive it's really great as it is now, and it will be even more with the following additions based on dammages.

Tesla :

Actual Tesla link augment should be built in the ability. Also Telsas should no longer have max charge activation charges so it  becomes only based on duration and also divide by 2 the time between two activations.
(Tesla should be able to condemn entrances with electricity and be speeded up ! It's actually to slow to be a nice CC, and it will never deal enough dammage to be efficient enough for DPS.)

Tesla augment :

(Since I want the old augment to be part of the ability, it needs a new one.)
Allow Teslas to hit multiple targets at the same time. (Comparable to Zenurik with Lightning Dash shocking all enemies near it) I would make Tesla oriented build more spammy with is what we should expect from an electrical trap and a 1st ability.

Minelayer :

- Trip lazer : make it the same duration as other mines (30sec vs 300sec !) so it becomes usable. (The CC from the actual trip lazer is good but if just doesn't last long enough to do it's job...)
- Concuss : increase its base range from 6 to 10m so it can really be effective with less mines and maybe allow it to be restored 3-4 times before it vanishes like Bounce's mecanic and maybe then you could also remove the duration on that mine.
- Bounce : You can let it here it doesn't hurt anyone and it's fun sometimes and also have so niche uses or maybe try to find some synergies with it ?
- Shred : Keep the original ability mecanics but make it a grenade that explodes on enemy contact or bounce 2 times then explodes and deal bonus dammages based on enemy actual health would be great. It would allow Vauban to have something efficient to throw in fast running missions and also be a usefull weapon to use in bastille & vortex.

Bastille :

It's great as it is. But if DE feels that they could add more, then enemies outside of it should lose around 40% precision (fixed value and non stackable with multiple bastilles) when they are trying to shoot inside a bastille.

Vortex :

Increase a bit its base range from 6 to 8m.
Also, each enemy killed in the vortex emits an electromanegitc pulse dealing magnetic dammages based on total health of the dead enemy from the center to the borders of the vortex. A bit like Thermagnetic Shells augment from Detron.
This one would be comparable with Mag Mangetize (2) potential scaling dammage output. It works differently, it grabs enemies more efficently and also can deal good amounts of dammages to enemies in based on a different mecanic. And it should synergies well with the new Shred grenade.

With all that little tweaks, I want to keep Vauban indentity and make him a much more interesting choice. I hope that with that changes, he will stay the CC king but also be a good secondary DPS (comparable to Mag) in static missions where he has always been comfortable. But also be able to shoot some groups of enemies in fast running mission with his new grenade and his weapons.
And be Vauban ! Not a random new tech warframe with nothing left to do with what was Vauban. Like with turrets, robots or whatever weird idea that would make him even worse since it's even more static, based on AI (which can't be a really good AI, that doesn't really exists in Warframe) and it would not scale well.

Thanks for taking time to read and understand my point. I hope that could be a way to solve the issues we can have when we want to use Vauban. And keep the same feeling we can have when we play as the master of throwing traps.

NB : Minelayer & Tesla could be more revisited than what I proposed but Bastille & Vortex should always be in Vauban's kit, they work well there is no good reason to get rid of that. Also Vauban must have other throwing traps which look more like mines ora explosives even if Tesla & Minelayer are fully reworked.

[Circle_of_Psi]

No

His entire kit is getting removed, the powers he has now, he won't have. hopefully

They're all useless

 

Your post is just like this one: 

 

[Rathalio]

il y a 25 minutes, Circle_of_Psi a dit :

No

His entire kit is getting removed, the powers he has now, he won't have. hopefully

They're all useless

 

Your post is just like this one: 

 

Since when Vauban is completly useless ? You should try to find real arguments, Vauban for example is and has always been one of the most effective warframes in interceptions.
If you don't understand what are the actual uses of Vauban I'm sorry but you didn't understand a big part of the game.

[Lazarow]

11 minutes ago, Rathalio said:

Since when Vauban is completly useless ?

He isnt really useless he is just useless in most players' eyes because he cant do damage, only CC, his first ability just stuns the target if it has been charged, his second ability is is okayish but the mines have low range that its not worth using, his 3rd ability is eaily replacable with Khora's strangledome and it even does damage, his 4th can be replaced by nidus larva and does some more damage too and has a lot mroe range. Vauban is only good on mobile defense and even then in sortie levels he is fragile and one wouldnt know should i build for survivability or abilities and there is no balance between that so you ether have some survivability and use half the slots ofr it and the abilities dont works so good or just put most on abilities and be a walking glass statue, Im talking about endgame levels like sortie or arbitrations and if he cant be taken to any of those what good is he

Edited August 5, 2019 by Lazarow

[Circle_of_Psi]

11 minutes ago, Rathalio said:

Since when Vauban is completly useless ? You should try to find real arguments, Vauban for example is and has always been one of the most effective warframes in interceptions.
If you don't understand what are the actual uses of Vauban I'm sorry but you didn't understand a big part of the game.

Argue all you want, He is getting his powers removed and his whole kit is getting a rework, Period. Just read the topic I provided.

 

You kown I am right

Edited August 5, 2019 by Circle_of_Psi

[Circle_of_Psi]

On 2019-08-02 at 6:36 PM, Circle_of_Psi said:

disagree all you want, people need to accept the fact that some CC (Like Vauban) is dead, point is, his kit is getting reworked and changed, his old powers won't exist anymore. Given Scott is the one who is doing his rework, don't expect much hopes for him.

Vauban will stay the least used frame in-game, if his powers remain the same they are today. (or tweaked like people suggest)

(Forgot to post this)

 

[Circle_of_Psi]

6 minutes ago, Lazarow said:

He isnt really useless he is just useless in most players' eyes because he cant do damage, only CC, his first ability just stuns the target if it has been charged, his second ability is is okayish but the mines have low range that its not worth using, his 3rd ability is eaily replacable with Khora's strangledome and it even does damage, his 4th can be replaced by nidus larva and does some more damage too and has a lot mroe range. Vauban is only good on mobile defense and even then in sortie levels he is fragile and one wouldnt know should i build for survivability or abilities and there is no balance between that so you ether have some survivability and use half the slots ofr it and the abilities dont works so good or just put most on abilities and be a walking glass statue, Im talking about endgame levels like sortie or arbitrations and if he cant be taken to any of those what good is he

Likewise, his CC if used correctly, can be somewhat useful, but even in places where CC is welcome, he is overpowers by frames like Nyx/Gara/Forst/Khora, etc. He is weak, only has CC powers and the power he did have (that I don't think no longer exists) was a exploit with his 4th, to basically wipe the map. On top of that, he has no way to heal or keep himself alive in any form.

It's the sad truth, DE favor damage/CC frames now, ones that can do most of everything, but only bad at certain mission types. "Balance" 

[Rathalio]

il y a 1 minute, Circle_of_Psi a dit :

disagree all you want, people need to accept the fact that some CC (Like Vauban) is dead, point is, his kit is getting reworked and changed, his old powers won't exist anymore. Given Scott is the one who is doing his rework, don't expect much hopes for him.

Vauban will stay the least used frame in-game, if his powers remain the same they are today. (or tweaked like people suggest) 

So you are saying that DE should remove most of CC warframes from the game ? In endgame content CC are a big part of it when you play as team. There is not only Inaros or whatever tank to play solo in the game, there is other ways to do it and one is preventing enmies from hurting you. You should not die of you CCs are well set up.
 

il y a 1 minute, Circle_of_Psi a dit :

Likewise, his CC if used correctly, can be somewhat useful, but even in places where CC is welcome, he is overpowers by frames like Nyx/Gara/Forst/Khora, etc. He is weak, only has CC powers and the power he did have (that I don't think no longer exists) was a exploit with his 4th, to basically wipe the map. On top of that, he has no way to heal or keep himself alive in any form.

It's the sad truth, DE favor damage/CC frames now, ones that can do most of everything, but only bad at certain mission types. "Balance" 

Did you know ? Vauban is the only one in your list that can have infinite abitilities running at the same time, you can shutdown a map with it, you can't to it that much with Nyx/Gara/Forst/Khora. It's different but it works as much or better it you have the energy to do it.

@Lazarow also you, you forgot the fact that Vauban can spam each of his abilities contrary to the other warframes. And that makes a huge difference.

[Lazarow]

2 minutes ago, Rathalio said:

So you are saying that DE should remove most of CC warframes from the game ? In endgame content CC are a big part of it when you play as team. There is not only Inaros or whatever tank to play solo in the game, there is other ways to do it and one is preventing enmies from hurting you. You should not die of you CCs are well set up.
 

Did you know ? Vauban is the only one in your list that can have infinite abitilities running at the same time, you can shutdown a map with it, you can't to it that much with Nyx/Gara/Forst/Khora. It's different but it works as much or better it you have the energy to do it.

@Lazarow also you, you forgot the fact that Vauban can spam each of his abilities contrary to the other warframes. And that makes a huge difference.

There is still the fact that they do almost no damage and that there is no point to spamming abilities if they are not effective enough to kill

[keikogi]

1 hour ago, Rathalio said:

First of all, sorry if you are ennoyed by an other thread about Vauban but that's the time to do it.

I waited a bit to take my time to sum up my proposition with all ideas and remove some that could not work well or be realistic or simply doesn't fit with Vauban's kit.

As a Vauban main and veteran (~3000h in game and Vauban as first used warframe), I have some feelings for the actual kit Vauban has. I'm convinced that a rework should not be a full redesign, Vauban identity should be preserved as much as it is possible, if you want so much changes just ask for a new warframe !
Actually in Warframe, we have 4 main class in the meta : dammage dealers, tanks, buffers/supports, crowd controllers.
It's not a surprise for anyone if I say that dammage dealers and tanks are the actual top used warframes & most efficient ones in the game in general. Tanks are super used to mitigate enemies increasing power and DPS warframes just kill everything before it can do something else than dying. Supports & CC warframes were fully in the meta when in warframe we had some harder gamemodes to play which were not artificially hard (like staying hours in a survival) such as Raids and also when warframe movements were slower or we just didn't obliterate everything in seconds.
Actually Vauban is fully oriented on CC and works well for CC but only for CC. There is a lot of warframes that have hybrid kits and work well because of that and so I think it could be the best way to make Vauban better. He is not a support/buffer nor a DPS nor a tank.
- Making Vauban a buffer hybrid with CC seams to not be the best idea since that wont bring him much power and we should focus on what is actually working the best and fits the best.
- So tank or DPS ? My opinion on that is making a tank with a CC warframe seams to be paradoxal, why tanking enemies that will not be able to hurt you most of the time ?
Since Vauban has an interesting kit with a certain complexity, I think making it a CC + DPS hybrid would be a nice idea and it seams also to be coherent with is recently updated passive. And I hope that with some love he could be campared with Mag and her super interesting kit with a great dammage scaling potential and a really good uses in high level content.

Vauban :

Passive - Dismantle :

For a passive it's really great as it is now, and it will be even more with the following additions based on dammages.

Tesla :

Actual Tesla link augment should be built in the ability. Also Telsas should no longer have max charge activation charges so it  becomes only based on duration and also divide by 2 the time between two activations.
(Tesla should be able to condemn entrances with electricity and be speeded up ! It's actually to slow to be a nice CC, and it will never deal enough dammage to be efficient enough for DPS.)

Tesla augment :

(Since I want the old augment to be part of the ability, it needs a new one.)
Allow Teslas to hit multiple targets at the same time. (Comparable to Zenurik with Lightning Dash shocking all enemies near it) I would make Tesla oriented build more spammy with is what we should expect from an electrical trap and a 1st ability.

Minelayer :

- Trip lazer : make it the same duration as other mines (30sec vs 300sec !) so it becomes usable. (The CC from the actual trip lazer is good but if just doesn't last long enough to do it's job...)
- Concuss : increase its base range from 6 to 10m so it can really be effective with less mines and maybe allow it to be restored 3-4 times before it vanishes like Bounce's mecanic and maybe then you could also remove the duration on that mine.
- Bounce : You can let it here it doesn't hurt anyone and it's fun sometimes and also have so niche uses or maybe try to find some synergies with it ?
- Shred : Keep the original ability mecanics but make it a grenade that explodes on enemy contact or bounce 2 times then explodes and deal bonus dammages based on enemy actual health would be great. It would allow Vauban to have something efficient to throw in fast running missions and also be a usefull weapon to use in bastille & vortex.

Bastille :

It's great as it is. But if DE feels that they could add more, then enemies outside of it should lose around 40% precision (fixed value and non stackable with multiple bastilles) when they are trying to shoot inside a bastille.

Vortex :

Increase a bit its base range from 6 to 8m.
Also, each enemy killed in the vortex emits an electromanegitc pulse dealing magnetic dammages based on total health of the dead enemy from the center to the borders of the vortex. A bit like Thermagnetic Shells augment from Detron.
This one would be comparable with Mag Mangetize (2) potential scaling dammage output. It works differently, it grabs enemies more efficently and also can deal good amounts of dammages to enemies in based on a different mecanic. And it should synergies well with the new Shred grenade.

With all that little tweaks, I want to keep Vauban indentity and make him a much more interesting choice. I hope that with that changes, he will stay the CC king but also be a good secondary DPS (comparable to Mag) in static missions where he has always been comfortable. But also be able to shoot some groups of enemies in fast running mission with his new grenade and his weapons.
And be Vauban ! Not a random new tech warframe with nothing left to do with what was Vauban. Like with turrets, robots or whatever weird idea that would make him even worse since it's even more static, based on AI (which can't be a really good AI, that doesn't really exists in Warframe) and it would not scale well.

Thanks for taking time to read and understand my point. I hope that could be a way to solve the issues we can have when we want to use Vauban. And keep the same feeling we can have when we play as the master of throwing traps.

NB : Minelayer & Tesla could be more revisited than what I proposed but Bastille & Vortex should always be in Vauban's kit, they work well there is no good reason to get rid of that. Also Vauban must have other throwing traps which look more like mines ora explosives even if Tesla & Minelayer are fully reworked.

As far as I can see Vauban has 2 problems.

First ability immune enemies make cc and debuff pointless, therefore they also make Vauban Useless (I don’t see DE stopping make these, in fact I think they will become mundane when the New War starts)

Second, 1 dimensional kit, literally every skill Vauban has can be quickly describe as throws a ball, ball does CC. His skills have a lot of overlap, the only thing the player can do is choose the most energy efficient CC for this map and faction.

You can't fix these problems with simple buffs or surface level rework. You need t give him at least a new skill.

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by keikogi

[Rathalio]

Il y a 1 heure, Lazarow a dit :

There is still the fact that they do almost no damage and that there is no point to spamming abilities if they are not effective enough to kill

That's why in what I wrote I made a proposition to give him in a way good amount of dammages. Also you know that warframe is a team game, some warframes could be made to group & disable enemies and other to kill them after that, that makes sense no ?

Read what I wrote then please come back if you have something constructive to add.

Il y a 1 heure, keikogi a dit :

First ability immune enemies make cc and debuff pointless, therefore they also make Vauban Useless

And also make DPS warframes unable to properly DPS them, so what's the point ?

Edited August 5, 2019 by Rathalio
misspelled "unable"

[keikogi]

1 hour ago, Rathalio said:

And also make DPS warframes enable to properly DPS them, so what's the point ?

You are putting words in my mouth. I never said Vauban has to do damage. I just pointed out that if ability imune enemies become comon place Vauban and his skills become pointless.

But you know of there are skills the buff allies and skills that build structures ( atlas wall , volt shield ). Vauban could use some of these.

I has these problems in mind when I desined my Vauban rework. I tried my hardest to give Vauban as much utility by giving him new skills and tried to preserve his soul by keeping as many skills as I could (by buffing them)

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by keikogi

[Rathalio]

il y a 34 minutes, keikogi a dit :

You are putting words in my mouth. I never said Vauban has to do damage. I just pointed out that if ability imune enemies become comon place Vauban and his skills become pointless.

But you know of there are skills the buff allies and skills that build structures ( atlas wall , volt shield ). Vauban could use some of these. 

I has these problems in mind when I desined my Vauban rework. I tried my hardest to give Vauban as much utility by giving him new skills and tried to preserve his soul by keeping as many skills as I could (by buffing them)

 

This, I agree, you did a great job to try to preserve what's Vauban and give him more power that's an interesting way to rework him.
Anyway, I misspelled "unable"  I'm sorry for that. And when I saw your comment it nearly gave me the same feeling I had by reading Circle_of_Psi weird arguments and questionable behavior. And thougth that was again about saying that CC have no uses etc. and DPS warframes were far more interesting than that. But at least that's different, you have a real idea and thank you for that, just consider what I proposed as an other way to rework Vauban which is certainly not perfect but has got some good things to take I'm sure.

Citation

And it also make DPS warframes unable to properly DPS them, so what's the point ?

 

[PsiWarp]

Well as far as the rework goes, it's going to be a complete reimagining of his kit with elements of the old Vauban hopefully integrated here and there.

We can expect a more mobile, damaging, and a mix of offensive/defensive/supportive revamped Warframe to come out of this.

[Rathalio]

il y a 1 minute, PsiWarp a dit :

Well as far as the rework goes, it's going to be a complete reimagining of his kit with elements of the old Vauban hopefully integrated here and there.

We can expect a more mobile, damaging, and a mix of offensive/defensive/supportive revamped Warframe to come out of this.

I hope so but since DEs don't say clearly what they want to do with it and don't really seam to know what to do, I am a bit afraid of what they will do with it. I don't want to lose Vauban's spirit. That's why I'm giving some ideas even if that maybe not enough.

[keikogi]

29 minutes ago, Rathalio said:

Anyway, I misspelled "unable"  I'm sorry for that.

There is surprisingly low amount of grammar Nazi is this forum. People usable don’t care about your grammar just your ideas. Relax. Too bee fair,  I was rather blunt on my comment , so It can be misunderstood as sarcasm.

33 minutes ago, Rathalio said:

Anyway, I misspelled "unable"  I'm sorry for that.

 

There is surprisingly low amount of grammar Nazi is this forum. People usable don’t care about your grammar just your ideas. Relax. Too bee fair,  I was rather blunt on my comment , so It can be misunderstood as sarcasm.

29 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

Well as far as the rework goes, it's going to be a complete reimagining of his kit with elements of the old Vauban hopefully integrated here and there.

We can expect a more mobile, damaging, and a mix of offensive/defensive/supportive revamped Warframe to come out of this.

I think people liked the Idea quite a few like and some comments. But none noticed the strength of Exalted armor argument skill. It is incredible strong because you can become your own energy cube , you can get 60% damage reduction from ranged attacks , you can autohack after 2 seconds , knockdown enemies around you each 10 seconds, you can shock nearby enemies, you can get free dies for fishing. There are so many possibilities for this one

29 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

Well as far as the rework goes, it's going to be a complete reimagining of his kit with elements of the old Vauban hopefully integrated here and there.

We can expect a more mobile, damaging, and a mix of offensive/defensive/supportive revamped Warframe to come out of this. 

Have a look at my rework, I think I did a competent job at reimagining Vauban kit , keeping most of his skills and giving him quite a new few ones. I also gave him unique mobility in the form of the Srambus “space skis”

 

[Circle_of_Psi]

2 hours ago, Rathalio said:

So you are saying that DE should remove most of CC warframes from the game ? In endgame content CC are a big part of it when you play as team. There is not only Inaros or whatever tank to play solo in the game, there is other ways to do it and one is preventing enmies from hurting you. You should not die of you CCs are well set up.
 

Yes, cuz that's excaly what's going on, CC frames (pure ones) are getting revamped to have a balance of CC/Damage/Sur

 

2 hours ago, Rathalio said:

Did you know ? Vauban is the only one in your list that can have infinite abitilities running at the same time, you can shutdown a map with it, you can't to it that much with Nyx/Gara/Forst/Khora. It's different but it works as much or better it you have the energy to do it.

@Lazarow also you, you forgot the fact that Vauban can spam each of his abilities contrary to the other warframes. And that makes a huge difference.

Not really

Nyx can spam her Chaos Spare, she makes mobile def/Def/Interspersion missions a cakewalk. 

Limbo can freeze time and lock out everything, he also makes mobile def/Def missions a cakewalk.

Nova  can slow everything down to a crawl and kill them at the same time.

Mag can lock down any type of Corpus Map, steal shields, become tanky and stun everything

Excal can swish swish swish and all is dead

Forst/Gara/Khora can lock down certain key spots and be protect another spot(at the same time!)

Atlas can lock down pathways with his walls

Mesa can high noon everything (why do you think everyone wants every frame to be her, so they can't press 4 to win) (I feel sick even talking about Mesa, so thanks for that)

 

I chuold go on but, you kown.

 

 

P.S: Just cuz you can spam your powers, don't mean jack, every frame can do that, but why whuold you when the powers can take care of themselves.

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Circle_of_Psi

[Circle_of_Psi]

2 hours ago, Lazarow said:

There is still the fact that they do almost no damage and that there is no point to spamming abilities if they are not effective enough to kill

AKA: This

While I do not agree that all frames should be all damage, something alteast is acceptable

Edited August 5, 2019 by Circle_of_Psi

[Maka.Bones]

@Circle_of_Psi hey thanks for linking to my post, but How is vauban useless? Like give an actual example, not just empty accusations or opinions. 

He's not useless at all, it's just that players would rather play something else like mesa or saryn (who clear an entire room with one button). The reason being that vauban ONLY does CC, meanwhile other warframes can CC while doing other things. Vauban was meant to be focused around his gunplay in tandem with CC. Like that was intentional but i guess people like you don't know how to aim and shoot, or strategize with abilities. 

Maybe you should just learn how to use him. 

@Rathalio don't let this guy troll or intimidate you. You're providing good feedback, and that's always helpful. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Circle_of_Psi]

10 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

@Circle_of_Psi hey thanks for linking to my post

This topic is over. You've had plenty of people prove that you are wrong, if you turely think that people who disagree with you are trolls, then that's your own fault, I've had that said to me plenty of times (And RIP my Inbox soon, if Gauss comes out)

Feedback is always welcome, regardless in what form, but it's been proven FACT that Vauban is getting his whole kit redone, that PROVES that Vauban is the most least used frame in-game, I can understand that having a frame you enjoy in your own regards seening casted out like this and bealive me, I am in the same boat with how I feel about people about Limbo and Baruuk. But it boils down to just the truth

By all means the OP is free to share his feedback and I'm not here to prevent that (even if my comments may seem like it, or even others). it's hard to understand the "emotion" behind text, such as being sarcastic or aggressive, etc, but like every other game, people need to understand that somethings are just right.

I mean put it this way: Wukong before his rework was "trash" as everyone called it out and MEANY people complained about his Defy being nerfed. it's the same topic over and over again. I used to LOVE Vauban when he had his Prime, but ofc other frames came out and can do what he can but 100 times better. It's like Volt and Gauss, some people think that Gauss is going to kill Volt, is it true?, no one knows until Gauss is out.

 

Maka, I have nothing aginest you at all, nor the OP of the topic and may what tone my comments have come across to you or others, I apologizes for, but this IS the Forms after all, you'll have people coming in to prove something is correct. Whuold you bealive me if Vauban was one of the first Primes I got? (I don't count Rhino Prime as my first, even if it was, cuz I was still new to the game and not knew you can farm)

 

 

Edit: And hey, While Vauban might not be as useful as other frames in the long run, such as Sorties and higher level, or "Be The Very Best" I will say that Vauban is a very FUN frame to use (Bouncing your teammates around or throwing a ton of Tesla on your teammates and watch them turn into a Bug Zapper).

Edited August 6, 2019 by Circle_of_Psi

[BlachWolf]

His 1 and 2 need to be replaced and his 3 + 4 should be made into a single ability you can toggle between. That way the best part of his kit will be preserved while having 3 free ability slots for something new.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

On 2019-08-05 at 7:41 AM, Rathalio said:

the fact that Vauban can spam each of his abilities contrary to the other warframes. And that makes a huge difference.

The fact that we can spam his powers is exactly why his kit has never been made to be effective. 

1 ant. A nuisance. 1,000 ants, dangerous. 

Every other frame gets an elephant, while Vauban is stuck throwing ants at people until he stops being a nuisance. He shouldn't have to spam his abilities in order to be useful. It also means that he's relegated exclusively to efficiency builds.

I would rather have a cap on the casts of each of his abilities while having them be more effective on their own. Limit Bastille to two active casts, but incorporate Repelling Bastille into the base ability, freeing up a new augment. See how that can make a difference? 

He's the dedicated "strategist" in this game. Spamming all of his entirely interchangeable cc abilities all over the place hoping to be useful isn't a strategy.