Tusk Thumper AI and Agility

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

I'm sorry. I'm really sorry. I'm ever so sorry.

But why is there an enemy in this game that can only be hit at certain weak points and has the ability to turn it's entire body 180% degrees and has faster rotation than a base Warframe's mobility? Why is there an enemy in this game that can only be taken down without strenuous effort by two Warframes (Chroma and Nova). Why in the world does my sniper rifle go from 840 damage at a 1.0x multiplier to 1,000 damage at a 3.0x combo multiplier? I'm not certain that's how that works.

In short, just why can Tusk Thumpers, especially Bulls and Domas:

• Rotate faster than a base Warframe can move around, requiring either Nova, Zenurik's Temporal Blast, or a combination of Proton Pulse + Anti-Grav Array to just be able to get to it's weak point.
• Repair it's primary guns in twenty seconds after they're disabled, meaning that it will constantly rotate it's body to fire at an enemy and preventing a player from being able to fire at more than two legs in the entirety of the battle?
• Adsorb enough damage that the only thing that take them down at the strongest of strong weapons, and somehow circumvent math?
• Jump at the exact moment a player gets in range to fire at it's weak point, and rotate it's body, basically resetting all of the work to getting to said weak point?
• Jump at a literally invisible archwing that was firing at it with absolute precision?
• Basically turn around at any point at any given time meaning it will only ever face a player with only one side like it's the moon?
• Despawn with less than 10% health left? Because that's fair. Because I like spending an entire play session fighting a single boss.

[BansheePrime]

Yes it has a lot of crap mechanics. But on the bright side the Amesha’s Warding Grace slow has got your back.

Edited August 6, 2019 by BansheePrime

[taiiat]

Thumpers definitely to not rotate faster than Parkour can move.

ofcourse, the amount of spinning in circles that they do is silly anyways, seeing as they have Guns on all sides yet still always try to turn a specific side of them to face the thing they are attacking. quite odd.

Thumpers will only leave the Landscape if there aren't any Players (maybe NPC's?) nearby for a bit. can't say i've ever had one leave, since i don't leave it until it's dead. ofcourse, if they were a bit more like Eidolons in the sense of never leaving the Landscape on their own, i wouldn't complain about that.

i wouldn't say Thumpers necessitate extreme power Weapons to defeat. their Health Types were adjusted to make Radiation Damage super extra conveniently strong, so you go for that, just like everywhere else on the Earth Landscape. >.>
it takes extreme power Weapons to..... Kill the Thumper in a few seconds in total, but there's no need to do that whatsoever, now is there?

[Isnigu]

6 minutes ago, taiiat said:

Thumpers definitely to not rotate faster than Parkour can move.

Thumpers will only leave the Landscape if there aren't any Players (maybe NPC's?) nearby for a bit. can't say i've ever had one leave, since i don't leave it until it's dead. ofcourse, if they were a bit more like Eidolons in the sense of never leaving the Landscape on their own, i wouldn't complain about that.

 

They spin fast enough that even though you can overtake them, staying on the good side while shooting/aiming and still having a chance to get out of the way when they charge is a bit iffy. Certainly not in the ballpark of "fun boss mechanic".

I have had one despawn at around 10/15% in the middle of it's jump with 4 players shooting at it for ages. Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[taiiat]

3 hours ago, Isnigu said:

Certainly not in the ballpark of "fun boss mechanic".

shooting at it for ages.

that's neither here no there, i clarified that they do not infact rotate faster than Players can move.
and then the very next couple sentences i talked about what matters about them in that regard, that spinning constantly is just dumb, but it doesn't have to do with whether we can keep up with them or not, it's just dumb.

i have never been in such a scenario where the Thumper had been around for 'ages', this is true. but again, the next couple sentences directly after it talk about the subject anyways, and ways that the Enemy would be better regardless about the particular nature of that facet.

[Althaline]

8 hours ago, taiiat said:

Thumpers definitely to not rotate faster than Parkour can move.

Only barely. I struggle to keep myself at the rear weakpoints, even when I'm right in its face.

Do you main Titania?

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

10 hours ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

I'm sorry. I'm really sorry. I'm ever so sorry.

I'll take your word for it. 

10 hours ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

But why is there an enemy in this game that can only be hit at certain weak points and has the ability to turn it's entire body 180% degrees and has faster rotation than a base Warframe's mobility?

Lol wut? 

10 hours ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

Why is there an enemy in this game that can only be taken down without strenuous effort by two Warframes (Chroma and Nova). Why in the world does my sniper rifle go from 840 damage at a 1.0x multiplier to 1,000 damage at a 3.0x combo multiplier? I'm not certain that's how that works.

Only two war... Are they Rhino and Ivara... No? What game are you playing? Does PC have a new update we didn't get yet? 

10 hours ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

In short, just why can Tusk Thumpers, especially Bulls and Domas:

• Rotate faster than a base Warframe can move around, requiring either Nova, Zenurik's Temporal Blast, or a combination of Proton Pulse + Anti-Grav Array to just be able to get to it's weak point.

My Rhino, the second frame most people are likely to be able to get the parts for, suggests that you stomp. 

10 hours ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

• Repair it's primary guns in twenty seconds after they're disabled, meaning that it will constantly rotate it's body to fire at an enemy and preventing a player from being able to fire at more than two legs in the entirety of the battle?

Because those guns get one shotted and taking them out of commission permanently would mean that they need to be a lot tougher? 

Did you know that there's a weapon in this game that's able to home in on a marked target, doing extra damage in the process? 

10 hours ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

• Adsorb enough damage that the only thing that take them down at the strongest of strong weapons, and somehow circumvent math?

You expect strong variants of your enemies to be weak? 

10 hours ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

• Jump at the exact moment a player gets in range to fire at it's weak point, and rotate it's body, basically resetting all of the work to getting to said weak point?

Move, slide, jump, aim, shoot. Try to do it fluidly. Works a lot better than move, sprint, stop, aim, shoot. 

 

10 hours ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

• Jump at a literally invisible archwing that was firing at it with absolute precision?

Then why wasn't it dead already? 

10 hours ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

• Basically turn around at any point at any given time meaning it will only ever face a player with only one side like it's the moon?

You usually stand there facing in one direction when the damage indicator shows damage coming from only one side, do you? 

10 hours ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

• Despawn with less than 10% health left? Because that's fair. Because I like spending an entire play session fighting a single boss.

Hasn't happened to me. Did you let night catch you on the Plains, Tenno? 

[Birdframe_Prime]

It's actually a little fun to me (in a jaded, long-term player that sounds like a butt-hat in the forums kind of way) that DE release an enemy that is actually difficult to take down, for once, and players pop up all over to complain that it's actually difficult.

Of course it's frustrating, it's designed to be. It's supposed to be a challenge.

However, if it's the kind of challenge that's taking two frames to combo, then I think that does say more about you than much else. I went looking for the Doma for the Nightwave and yes, it took a while because the weak points on the Doma have very, very high damage reduction (if you're of a mind, take the Sarpa with Shattering Impact, if you're on target, then four of its shots should remove the armour entirely helping with that damage mitigation). I did, in fact, need a couple of ammo restores, but that's because I wasn't using very ammo-efficient weapons and I took my Zephyr so no boosting my damage.

What that did allow me to do, however, was ignore the guns. Just press three, you have nothing to fear. It also means you can go up and over the Thumper and when it rotates you can adjust more quickly than it can because you're at the centre of its rotation.

Again, took a while, but was completely possible to take down solo without sprinting around it in circles, without wasting ammo on its guns, and without Focus/Magus support either. I can only imagine that it would have gone a lot faster if I'd had a friend with a Rhino for Roar and Stomp, but that's about it.

Thumpers may be a challenge, but they're one of the few challenges in the game That makes them more enjoyable than frustrating to me and a lot of other bored long-term players.

17 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Hasn't happened to me. Did you let night catch you on the Plains, Tenno? 

Actually, this is a known problem; Thumpers despawn after a certain time no matter what their remaining health is. If you take too long, they just go away and you get nothing for your time and effort.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Birdframe_Prime

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Actually, this is a known problem; Thumpers despawn after a certain time no matter what their remaining health is. If you take too long, they just go away and you get nothing for your time and effort.

Only time I've seen one of the things vanish and that was during Plague Star, when we were busy with the last stage and hadn't gotten around to going after the thumper when night fell. I know that if I mark them in passing I've had enough time to finish a stage of a bounty, and go back to kill them, without it despawning. 

So the description of "spending an entire play session fighting a single boss." doesn't really make a whole lot of sense, unless everyone in the group was a newb who would've had problems taking the content on anyway. 

[Nibelhim]

Fairly sure most players who complain about thumpers dont do plains a lot. The doma quest takes a long time because of finding the thumper. If your squad has 1 or 2 ppl with decent dmg and aim, the fight is over in a minute. 

 

Going solo with a lanka or rubico or with a good exalted weapon takes about 1 to 2 mins if ur aim is good. There are many ways to beat it and its at where its supposed to be. Mid game enemy has mid game strength. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

So the description of "spending an entire play session fighting a single boss." doesn't really make a whole lot of sense, unless everyone in the group was a newb who would've had problems taking the content on anyway. 

That is, funnily enough, exactly what OP is saying. They weren't able to do the content, took so long at it that the Doma literally dug itself back under the ground out of boredom.

It's like that guy from last year who wanted to know why you fail Assassination missions after an hour. They were role-playing so hard that they only ever used the Dragon Nikana and tried to take on Lephantis with it, the mission failed them for not finishing the boss after an hour. You can fix a lot of things, but you can't fix stupid...

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, Nibelhim said:

Fairly sure most players who complain about thumpers dont do plains a lot. The doma quest takes a long time because of finding the thumper. If your squad has 1 or 2 ppl with decent dmg and aim, the fight is over in a minute. 

 

Going solo with a lanka or rubico or with a good exalted weapon takes about 1 to 2 mins if ur aim is good. There are many ways to beat it and its at where its supposed to be. Mid game enemy has mid game strength. 

Yeah, I tend not to abandon the bounty, so if the squad is able to take on the stage, I'll take out the thumper on my own and mark the drops. Or mark the thumper and come back for it after the stage is done. 

 

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

That is, funnily enough, exactly what OP is saying. They weren't able to do the content, took so long at it that the Doma literally dug itself back under the ground out of boredom.

It's like that guy from last year who wanted to know why you fail Assassination missions after an hour. They were role-playing so hard that they only ever used the Dragon Nikana and tried to take on Lephantis with it, the mission failed them for not finishing the boss after an hour. You can fix a lot of things, but you can't fix stupid...

Oh, ok.... I mean that could explain the whole "only 2 warframes can do this" bit.

But how did they even manage to get that bad of a mix in a pug doing a level 5 bounty? I mean it's one thing to have someone dominating, and out-damaging others, but to have everyone poorly geared and unable? 

 

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

My guess is someone just ran off from doing the bounties to chase after the doma. While the other three team mates ignore the thumper.

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)jaggerwanderer said:

My guess is someone just ran off from doing the bounties to chase after the doma. While the other three team mates ignore the thumper.

I don't know how I could've run off from three team mates if I was in solo mode.

[Nibelhim]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Oh, ok.... I mean that could explain the whole "only 2 warframes can do this" bit.

But how did they even manage to get that bad of a mix in a pug doing a level 5 bounty? I mean it's one thing to have someone dominating, and out-damaging others, but to have everyone poorly geared and unable? 

 

If everyone is poorly geared maybe leave squad or dont assume you can leech. 1 or 2 leechers is fine.... i guess... but 4? Eh

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 minute ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

I don't know how I could've run off from three team mates if I was in solo mode.

Oh good grief. 

Yeah the problem here is not the game, it's a player who does not know what they're doing, isn't strong enough to do what they think they can, and not wise enough to realise either. 

Take some time to ask questions, and seek advice, instead of blaming the game for your inability to do simple things. 

[AndouRaiton]

Honestly, i just use the buzlok, tag the weak point and hold down the trigger and watch the bullets home in and wreck the thing. The only difficult thing is getting the first tag, but as mentioned, temporal blast helps along with void dashing to get into position.

[taiiat]

10 hours ago, Iamabearlulz said:

Only barely. I struggle to keep myself at the rear weakpoints, even when I'm right in its face.

Do you main Titania?

no, i play like 80% of my Missions with Saryn.
ofcourse, i've done everything in the game so i have Focus maxed(to go even faster if necessary), but Parkour on its own has a lot of tools and you can do a lot with it. :)

Edited August 7, 2019 by taiiat

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

Dare I ask, what's your mastery rank? By MR10 you should have enough tools to take down one of these enemy. Let alone solo a teralyst.

[Velothed]

I mostly like the Thumpers, I use solo Ivara with Buzzlock and awesome Riven though^^

The only thing that really annoys me is them dissapearing when they only have a little sliver of health left. It only happens to me directly after a long jump, only when they're almost dead and quite frequently at that.

While not horrible, the circling around themwhile they also turn can get a bit silly.

[Birdframe_Prime]

20 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Oh, ok.... I mean that could explain the whole "only 2 warframes can do this" bit.

But how did they even manage to get that bad of a mix in a pug doing a level 5 bounty? I mean it's one thing to have someone dominating, and out-damaging others, but to have everyone poorly geared and unable?

This is the bit that may blow your mind; I think they deliberately went out there with those frames and that this is actually the extent of the OP's ability to play this game well...

Scary, I know, but it's happened before, I've seen it. The player thinks that just because those two warframes do actually have an effect (one to slow, one to deal damage), that they're the only two that have any effect, they maybe don't even realise that this is content that other players don't actually struggle with. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

28 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

This is the bit that may blow your mind; I think they deliberately went out there with those frames and that this is actually the extent of the OP's ability to play this game well...

Scary, I know, but it's happened before, I've seen it. The player thinks that just because those two warframes do actually have an effect (one to slow, one to deal damage), that they're the only two that have any effect, they maybe don't even realise that this is content that other players don't actually struggle with. 

Oh it's beyond that. They confirmed that they were solo yesterday. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Oh it's beyond that. They confirmed that they were solo yesterday. 

Uh...

Spoiler

 

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

in an alternate universe.... 

thumpers are so dumb and easy, whats the use of 4 legs if they cant rotate properly. what a boring fight