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Klokwerkaos

Dog Days Exploit Hot Fix Red Text, Don't talk down at your supporters DE

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1 hour ago, (XB1)RevenantRequiem said:

Don't complain about a fun summer event and then call Warframe boring when you cheese. if you're offended at Red Text then you're clearly the target demographic that cheese everything in the game and then complain that the game is boring.

You know, you're probably the third person in this thread to completely not read my post and accuse me of using the exploit when I didn't and actively praised DE for fixing it... but hey, nice post.  Good job, champ.

Edited by Klokwerkaos
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53 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

You know, you're probably the third person in this thread to completely not read my post and accuse me of using the exploit when I didn't and actively praised DE for fixing it... but hey, nice post.  Good job, champ.

The truth hurts, I'm afraid and it's hard for them to understand that.

All the "Ha-Has" you have as well proves that point as well, as well as comments like you mentioned, thus the post you said how adorable/cute it is just correct in this matter. Just let them feel like they are doing something, I mean who else is gonna polish the gates?

Although with that being said, I am quite srupised the topic lasted this long, most of the time it gets down-voted to hell or falsely reported, or someone deletes it from existence, but i am glad it's still up and hopefully you'll be heard.
(you probably won't)  

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2 hours ago, Tinklzs said:

I never said that it excused the behavior, DE can look at this and see why players are afking it. So you increase the rewards (which they did, although not the way I would've done it, but they at least did something), and then make it more fun (while removing the afk ability entirely) by doing a handful of things 

Adding new squirt gun weapons, possibly one for each ranged weapon type we have (sniper, Grenade launcher's as examples) for variation. Maybe give us a table, like when we first started warframe to select the MK-1 weapons, at the start of the match. And enough so everyone can use the same weapon type if they desire.

Can't think of anything else at the moment, but I hope you understand where I"m coming from. 

From a developer perspective it is DE's job not only to ensure a level of balance is obtained (so no afks) but to figure out why such things are occuring to begin with. Finding the source of the issue (which is all over the forums), and trying different ways to fix it, is the best course of action next to increasing rewards to help ease the grind.   Again, it doesn't excuse the afk behavior, and I"m not promoting it, but it does help explain it. Because other games have had similar problems, and those developers fixed it in the same manor I mentioned above.

 

 

I understand where you are coming from and appreciate you explaining it. The red texts are pretty funny and deserve nowhere near amount of anger from this post. Reading it feels like DE burnt down the backyard of OP and some people in this thread.

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5 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

I'm just questioning how plausible it is for all of these stacking effects to actually have the desired outcome, and how complicated it will make the game.

People "REE" whenever they read the word nerf and complain about not wanting to "try hard", but in a lot of respects by designing enemies that cover everything we're capable of you are designing a game that requires you to tryhard.

Your answers to the questions I posed didn't actually answer my questions.

Why make the game more complicated and design all these mechanics just for an endgame, when you could simply make us somewhat less deadly and have the same outcome? How many additional mechanics need to be slapped on before we're actually countered?

You're proposing CC resistance as well, due to the infinite duration of Disarm the only resistance you can give enemies to it is to simply have them not be disarmed, thus meaning he'll still get shot.

Or it remains a permanent effect he can apply to everything, thus making his CC vastly superior to all other CC's that will be resisted.

You see what I mean about how things would still need to be reworked?

Proposing greater health values is the same as reducing our damage output, proposing CC resistance has the same effect as just reducing how powerful our CC is etc.

I'm only questioning the examples you're providing because I'm concerned the enemy pool will become so bloated with variations that the correct counter to a frame happens once in a blue moon. We already have an enemy type that can see through invisibility, they still aren't a threat.

i understand the concerns, but part of the reason the addition in new content vs take away is better is because:

A) more enemy reponses = more engaging play at higher levels
B) nerfs feel bad, buffs feel good
C) taking away early progression methods vs adding to endgame means unhinging the entire economy.  this might not mean much to you by the difference between spending 3 min per relic run vs 6 min is a steep 50% loss in plat.  worse, i don't know if you've ever funded a moon tier dojo< but farming for them becoming even worse is horrible.

since both things require reworks (in your case the economy), it makes sense to me to choose for something that feels better and increases active engagement of players at endgame levels.

consider for example, how destiny 2 is able to increase gameplay engagement through enemy diversity.  granted you can't just port what they did here directly since they are different games, but that doesn't mean we can't learn from their examples of what they get right that warframe doesn't

 

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3 hours ago, (XB1)RevenantRequiem said:

Don't complain about a fun summer event and then call Warframe boring when you cheese. if you're offended at Red Text then you're clearly the target demographic that cheese everything in the game and then complain that the game is boring.

Big KEK LOL. First of all, the OP didn't cheese anything. And secondly, you got the causality inverted there. Boredom causes cheese. The event was fun the first hour or two, not the other 6 you need to grind for the floofs. Have you grinded for 8 hours for the rewards? Let us know more about your fun experience! 

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

A) more enemy reponses = more engaging play at higher levels
B) nerfs feel bad, buffs feel good
C) taking away early progression methods vs adding to endgame means unhinging the entire economy.  this might not mean much to you by the difference between spending 3 min per relic run vs 6 min is a steep 50% loss in plat.  worse, i don't know if you've ever funded a moon tier dojo< but farming for them becoming even worse is horrible.

I'm always down for additional enemy types that respond appropriately to us. I'm not down with the entire concept of endgame hinging on relevant enemy types appearing at the correct moments to actually do anything, without which the game remains exactly the same.

I disagree, nerfs can feel good if you accept that they need to happen. Wukong's Defy nerf to me feels great, as I actually feel pushback from enemies now, and what was once blissfully easy now requires using that thing between my ears.

19 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

since both things require reworks (in your case the economy), it makes sense to me to choose for something that feels better and increases active engagement of players at endgame levels.

No, that applies to your own suggestions as well, as said by your own volition with no prompting.

11 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

then of course, if content takes a bit more to complete< you adjust drop tables accordingly as well so effort put in still equals reward put out.

Edited by DeMonkey
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3 minutes ago, iLeo said:

Big KEK LOL. First of all, the OP didn't cheese anything. And secondly, you got the causality inverted there. Boredom causes cheese. The event was fun the first hour or two, not the other 6 you need to grind for the floofs. Have you grinded for 8 hours for the rewards? Let us know more about your fun experience! 

to be fair, some people will cheese anything, but when cheese is mandatory because the grind is exhaustive and the gameplay loop is incredibly threadbare for minimal reward, even players that wouldn't normally cheese will begin to do so in droves.

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9 hours ago, (PS4)connort54321 said:

This post was made before that patch, they released the red text that everyone is annoyed about and released the pearls per kill later on, that’s what I ca. Gather from these posts anyway, was away when it all went down.

Yeah, the thread is one thing, but people rant on about it after the first 1½ pages, which is after the patch was implemented.

Just as I jumped in yesterday to do dog days and idiots were still afking.

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48 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

consider for example, how destiny 2 is able to increase gameplay engagement through enemy diversity.  granted you can't just port what they did here directly since they are different games, but that doesn't mean we can't learn from their examples of what they get right that warframe doesn't

Honestly I wouldnt use Dest2 as an example. As you yourself say they are different games. Heck they are different sub-genres. One is a looter shooter and the other is a faced paced loot-lite horde shooter. Dest2 needs the diversity because of the more tactical apporach to things, same as Borderlands.

It would be one thing if we had a few really tough units to face, but most enemies would still be one-hit wonder cannonfodders due to the horde shooter theme. What DE should do is probably more look at games like Vermintide and Killing Floor(2). Both being more horde shooter games that have quite dangerous must-focus-now-or-we're-screwed types of mobs mixed in with the runts. Nox, Bombards, Bursas etc. along with more regular hyenas, jackals and so on would be a way to go. But they'd need to rebalance the frames for that to work well, so trash is still very fragile while the elites are tough.

But as we sit now with all the extreme range and damage output on certain frames there is no point trying to get a higher diversity among the mobs because most things will be dead or near dead before you see them. If DE had just not introduced the ape-S#&amp;&#036; crazy ranged options we have for frames it would have been all good. With Saryn having a spread of 15m or so and maybe a 20m AoE on Miasma instead of what she can get now, a range that reaches longer than most maps and require no LoS.

 

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On 2019-08-06 at 5:22 PM, VanFanel1980mx said:

People will keep denying the fact that you can't have both the power fantasy and the "challenge" in the same game, I would rather have my power fantasy, I hate to play certain frames just because they are the only ones allowed in a certain game level (not even game mode, level.)

This^.  I’m on VF’s side.  Keep combat evolving and engaging, and central to the game...a massive power trip as you work to challenge “tenured” (I’m so TIRED of Vet as a term because different players have different levels of motivation for various aspects of the game).

OP’s concise, thoughtful rant makes his point on what is important to him.

I just want Power Fantasy combat to continue to be this game’s defining feature (and that means with a valid looter-shooter mechanic, I.e. combat can earn you everything) and for the trend of non-combat timesink dilution to stop.

You can keep floofs, waterguns, excessive loot-resource-economy micro-loops, snowboarding, animal conservation, mini-games, and everything else you’ve sunk resources into if it means the game I advocate for gives me the:

COMBAT.  LORE.  BEAUTIFUL ART DESIGN.

that drew me in years ago.

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vor 12 Stunden schrieb SneakyErvin:

That means that the reward for any avarage player got increased by roughly 50%. That means they just cut down the grind and time needed by around 50% aswell [...]

Not that it'd make much of a difference to your point, just a little nitpick:

In order to half the number of neccessary runs (50%) they'd actually have to to double the average pearl yield, meaning an increase of 100%. (While the 50% you mentioned (+-25 pearls) sounds plausible from my experience)

I agree with lots of OPS sentiments, as far as the event at hand is concerned tho: I couldn't care less really. Is there anything more vain and superfluous in this game than "floofs" and Captura? I think not. Also DE said the event would return, so really no need to cramp that (admittedly rather ridiculous considering its monotonous nature) grind time into these 10 days.

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vor 38 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Silverback73:

COMBAT.  LORE.  BEAUTIFUL ART DESIGN.

Well, at least we still got the beautiful art design. (Don't care alot about lore personally)

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On 2019-08-06 at 9:41 PM, Klokwerkaos said:

If DE doesn't correct course, they will eventually end up just like EA, Activision, Bethesda and all the other publishers that have rightfully earned the ire of those that once supported them.

WAKE UP DE. 

Whelp, another Dunning-Kreuger candidate for my ignore list, thanks for the help there Red-Text.

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On 2019-08-06 at 10:48 PM, DeMonkey said:

Whilst I'll likely get some hate for this, I don't believe the top end of content in a co-operative game should be completable by solo players.

Oh yeah. You're usually a voice of reason Monkey and I didn't expect to see you on the "endgame means you flip to a popularity contest in place of actual content" train.

I'm going to fight hard against MMO-raidification of Warframe. If players want to team up because it's fun, more power to them. If they don't, 100% of the game content and progression should still be available to them. No wiggle room, no debate, no exceptions.

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Just now, SilentMobius said:

Oh yeah. You're usually a voice of reason Monkey and I didn't expect to see you on the "endgame means you flip to a popularity contest in place of actual content" train.

I'm going to fight hard against MMO-raidification of Warframe. If players want to team up because it's fun, more power to them. If they don't, 100% of the game content and progression should still be available to them. No wiggle room, no debate, no exceptions.

I should have clarified better, if such a thing were implemented then I would want it to be the very top of the top, the creme de la creme.

A default mode "raid" or "trial" or "high tier mission" that you can run, yourself, without too much fuss (although fuss should be a factor due to being a lone Tenno). But if you want the harder version with the better drop rates, different cosmetics or just bragging rights, then imo that needs to require co-operation.

Take Arbitrations, in this theoretical world you could run them as they are by yourself and hope for the best, or you can get a squad for an extra Arbitrary Arbitration and get better chances at the loot you want, say by starting at Rotation C instead of working your way there over 30 minutes with a slightly different drop table weighting and cosmetics to show off.

I'm not entirely certain what a popularity contest has to do with this? Again, in this completely theoretical and entirely unrealistic world the frames are balanced accordingly in order for this level to be considered "endgame", it's no longer a case of "I want this specific frame so that you can perform this specific job and we cheese", but rather "I want a healer" (because in this universe healers are actually relevant) which could be performed by Trinity, Oberon, Wisp, Garuda, Harrow and to some extent Inaros, Nidus and, with great difficulty, Limbo. Many frames would have overlapping roles meaning plenty of variety to choose from. Don't get me wrong, I'm not naive enough to actually expect any of this to ever be a thing, but it's the direction I would have liked to see the game go.

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On 2019-08-06 at 3:41 PM, Klokwerkaos said:

Red text read at 2 min mark: "We will be running a test to see if there is a correlation between people using this exploit and people who complain that warframe is boring".

So yes, I get that red text is cheeky as a matter of historical precedent.

I also get that dog days was not a serious event and was designed to be a bit of cheeky fun that deviates from standard warframe edgelordiness...

The problem I have here is that it shows pretty clearly the Devs still don't take seriously or want to understand the problem of people complaining about warframe being too easy, especially when there are tons of people whining daily about how it's too hard.  This is because they don't understand how to balance the gameplay reward loop vs monetization after all these years to a place where players are happy, or perhaps, that there is outside pressure from their publishers in China, either way, it ends up being a very crappy experience for players.

Here's the thing... Dog Days WAS indeed a great bit of fun... for four missions... however, grinding out 2000+ peals with the current rewards system to obtain some silly cosmetic items that have literally no bearing on gameplay and a few trash mods that maybe five people will find useful, well... guess what, that means if TONS of people are using that exploit that it's PREFERABLE to your designed gameplay loop AND THAT IS THE CORE PROBLEM.

Like everything else, DE will band aid the situation rather than addressing the core issue, which is to either lower the cost, or incentivise the intended gameplay loop to a point where it feels rewarding, which is what many people did... by suggesting kills grant pearls, which is entirely reasonable.

You don't get to pin this on the players DE, that's bad PR, it's your game, your problem, and this has all the problems as the ooblets announcement for Epic, it completely has an important issue to address, but does it in a way that completely ignores legitimate issues and antagonizes the fanbase.  It's crappy. 

Players have legitimate reasons to be frustrated with you and your failure to provide rewarding endgame content of any kind for literally YEARS at this point. 

To be very clear, because of your insane requirements for grind for silly cosmetic items, YOU AND YOU ALONE are responsible for this.  You failed to code it correctly, and you failed to create a rewarding gameplay loop AND YOU put out a half baked event with an exploit and expected people to do what you wanted, which is grind for HOURS on end in a repetitive to death gameplay loop, rather than what they wanted, which was to earn rewards at a reasonable rate. 

To be honest, this is why I really have come to have straight up IRE for DE at this point.  You guys are, each year, eating up more and more good will that you earned in the early days, in exchange for the scummy bussiness practices of EA, Activision and other predatory companies.  I know you've taken some steps to avoid that by trying to please players... like removing random lootbox mods... BUT HOW MANY YEARS DID PEOPLE HAVE TO COMPLAIN BEFORE YOU STOPPED THAT?  Did it happen in a timely fashion, years ago when people first complained about it, or did it happen right around the time that lootboxes started getting governmental bannings that would keep your game out of certain countries?

People have legitimate problems with your game DE.  That's real.

There are real and serious problems to address.

I can and have historically supported the company financially in the past even though I literally need nothing in the game because I have everything for the core gameplay experience... I have done so to the extent where I've spent many, many more dollars than the average player, but this is legitimately the breaking point for me at this point.  From here on out, until I see significant improvement in your care for dealing with these core issues, you will not be seeing any more money from me personally.

To be clear, this isn't the "ONE BIG THING" this is the straw that broke the camels back after literally years of negligence on your part.

Further, I predict, if you guys continue down this road, while I am not the first and certainly won't be the last to make such a proclomation, I believe this problem will start getting worse. 

The gameplay landscape is changing as a whole and people are truly getting fed up with developers and publisher's nonsense.  Even your own long standing youtube partners, many of them are off doing other games entirely because you can't maintain the good will you used to while also seeking to siphon players of their time and money rather than just making a good game.

That's it for DE.  Now for the White knights that defend DE no matter what:  That's cute.  You'll grow out of that once you hit the wall of years of content drought and recognize the game is built on promises and dreams, rather than actual content releases, BY STEVE'S OWN WORDS, which is something most of us knew, but it sure was nice to have his confirmation.  The game, like all other scummy publisher games, is built on hype, not content.

If DE doesn't correct course, they will eventually end up just like EA, Activision, Bethesda and all the other publishers that have rightfully earned the ire of those that once supported them.

WAKE UP DE.  

 

Great emotional tirade. I've seen people claim that DE is going to turn into EA for years now. It still hasn't happened. Half of your post is fairly useless in terms of feedback. Furthermore, if you actually want them to read this, you should've put it in the feedback section. To be honest, you just made yourself look really foolish here by going off on an anger driven rant instead of well thought out criticism and feedback.

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4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yeah, the thread is one thing, but people rant on about it after the first 1½ pages, which is after the patch was implemented.

Just as I jumped in yesterday to do dog days and idiots were still afking.

Yea I mean tbh I not know why people are complaining about rewards here, this threat was made to discus the red text, hence the title. I think what their getting at though is that it isn’t good enough that a hotfix is required to sort this out, it’s not like this is the only event that has had mindless grinding for very little reward (buried debts and plague star being two easy examples as they are both boring after about 3 runs and it just becomes a chore rather than enjoyment, though there are many many more) DE should have realised that the rewards for doing these missions weren’t good enough from the beginning.  these complaints are most likely people just wanting to rant about it after numerous occasions of this exact same situation.

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4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Honestly I wouldnt use Dest2 as an example. As you yourself say they are different games. Heck they are different sub-genres. One is a looter shooter and the other is a faced paced loot-lite horde shooter. Dest2 needs the diversity because of the more tactical apporach to things, same as Borderlands.

It would be one thing if we had a few really tough units to face, but most enemies would still be one-hit wonder cannonfodders due to the horde shooter theme. What DE should do is probably more look at games like Vermintide and Killing Floor(2). Both being more horde shooter games that have quite dangerous must-focus-now-or-we're-screwed types of mobs mixed in with the runts. Nox, Bombards, Bursas etc. along with more regular hyenas, jackals and so on would be a way to go. But they'd need to rebalance the frames for that to work well, so trash is still very fragile while the elites are tough.

But as we sit now with all the extreme range and damage output on certain frames there is no point trying to get a higher diversity among the mobs because most things will be dead or near dead before you see them. If DE had just not introduced the ape-S#&amp;&#036; crazy ranged options we have for frames it would have been all good. With Saryn having a spread of 15m or so and maybe a 20m AoE on Miasma instead of what she can get now, a range that reaches longer than most maps and require no LoS.

 

While I haven't played Destiny 2, but have played Borderlands 1 / 2 + 100%'d KF2, I'd say it should be a mix between all three. 

In borderlands when you encounter a tanky boss enemy, you can use your elemental damages + abilities to help speed up the time to kill. In Killing Floor 2, there is a 'tier' system, not only for difficulty (and how the AI changes a bit per difficulty, like maybe fleshpounds will spawn enraged on HoE but not on Hard).  I think the main thing that separates Warframe from the rest is the parkour system, so we use that to our advantage.  NOX's could be your mini-boss borderlands/KF2 style, lots of health with 1-2 weakpoints that you mag dump. Then we'd have a bit squisher mini-boss assassination types like snipers with mobility jetpacks (think of them dashing from wall to wall quickly, like manic's do on the ground) and you'd have to kill them somewhat quickly otherwise you might get your health chunked.  Then buff manic's a bit more so they're more threatening if they do pin you down, more damage for them + a bit faster for them to pin players down.

I think these mini-bosses would be added at level 70-100 range. So if it's your first time playing sortie survival for example, the first 5 minutes would be 60-65 range, then the last 5 would be 66-70 range (meaning you'd encounter a mini-boss before leaving). Which would help introduce players to this concept. These mini-bosses would be similar to zanuka/G3, where they're announced (kind of like the Jedi/Sith Heroes in the Original Star Wars Battlefront 2, where they say a voiceline then arrive on battlefield).   So players know they're on the field and can be attacked, they would drop from a unique loot table exclusive to them, with cosmetics, blueprints and resources. 

In order to have mini-bosses and actual bosses that're threatening we need to establish a power ceiling. Otherwise, like you said, nothing would be challenging. Star chart would be power fantasy territory, how we are now, is how we would be in star chart farming stuff. When you get to level 70 + stuff (endurance runs or what have you), that is where paying attention and planning ahead will be necessary. Just like in KF2 or a similar game, Payday 2.  So you fight star chart enemies (upwards to 60) for farming stuff, scaling would be much slower to compensate for this, then as you get past 70 mini-bosses start showing up etc.  They could add a difficulty 'want to start here" system, where you could start near mini-boss (70) if you wanted eventually endurance runs would scale to level 100-125 range (end of sortie and go as high as 125 which would be raids). 

So level 100 would be like Heroic Raids in WoW, and "Warframe Raids" would be Mystical (just similar comparisons for simplicity sake).

 

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28 minutes ago, (PS4)connort54321 said:

Yea I mean tbh I not know why people are complaining about rewards here, this threat was made to discus the red text, hence the title. I think what their getting at though is that it isn’t good enough that a hotfix is required to sort this out, it’s not like this is the only event that has had mindless grinding for very little reward (buried debts and plague star being two easy examples as they are both boring after about 3 runs and it just becomes a chore rather than enjoyment, though there are many many more) DE should have realised that the rewards for doing these missions weren’t good enough from the beginning.  these complaints are most likely people just wanting to rant about it after numerous occasions of this exact same situation.

I honestly think the rewards themselves are fine as they are for a cutsie little fun throw away event.  That doesn't bother me so much as the fact that the grind is absurd in an absolutely boring as hell repetitive loop.  

I won't argue that PS and Buried Debts are boring as dog poop, because they are indeed a mindless slog, but at least there is some kind of variety and diversity and something that allows you to control the experience as a variable if you're geared for it and the rewards, at least for PS, have appeal to keep you going (because more forma is always good)... and while stripping that away for this event was half the fun, it very much becomes very unfun when you have to grind it for hours upon hours to get any of the rewards you might want... which brings me to the actual problem I have of DE abdicating responsibility for the crappy grind that caused players in droves to abuse the exploit, and then blame said players rather than owning it themselves. 

That's my real gripe.

I can and have been very patient with them on a wide myriad of failures, but the moment someone starts blaming their shortcomings on others that's when I have my patience run out instantly.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

I honestly think the rewards themselves are fine as they are for a cutsie little fun throw away event.  That doesn't bother me so much as the fact that the grind is absurd in an absolutely boring as hell repetitive loop.  

I won't argue that PS and Buried Debts are boring as dog poop, because they are indeed a mindless slog, but at least there is some kind of variety and diversity and something that allows you to control the experience as a variable if you're geared for it and the rewards, at least for PS, have appeal to keep you going (because more forma is always good)... and while stripping that away for this event was half the fun, it very much becomes very unfun when you have to grind it for hours upon hours to get any of the rewards you might want... which brings me to the actual problem I have of DE abdicating responsibility for the crappy grind that caused players in droves to abuse the exploit, and then blame said players rather than owning it themselves. 

That's my real gripe.

I can and have been very patient with them on a wide myriad of failures, but the moment someone starts blaming their shortcomings on others that's when I have my patience run out instantly.

Rewards aren’t a problem like you say, my only complaint is that we don’t get the soakatron, I would really like to see someone make it a eidolon hunting weapon lol. But the effort needed for those rewards wasn’t worth it in the state that the event was in, I mean 100 pearls for a shader of yellow and blue? It’s not worth it. After doing all the event missions the only thing I could buy was those colours which is disappointing as I personally I like to collect something from every event that’s a  trophy from the it, so to speak, that’s the only reason I grinded this event for a few games them as I don’t strive to collect everything, just one memorable one, such as the beach ball floof. However a bug caused it to fall out of my orbiter( that’s the reason I stumbled across this thread actually) so I had to farm for it again, but this was after the patch had deployed so it was easier but not to the point that we were being gave them for free, which is how it should be. After farming for the second time and deciding to get one of the more expensive balls, a emblem and the colour pallet (my friend was grinding for the scene so I joined him as I was waiting for Him anyway and had a few Hundred pearls to spare after the floof) and I couldn’t help but think “wouldn’t it be much better for everyone if it was just like this from the beginning?” People wouldn’t be exploiting bugs nearly as much if these events were released in a enjoyable state, I mean going back to hostile mergers, wasn’t their a bug that people exploited because it was boring that resulted in a similar outcome as this? You’d think DE would get the message that what they are making is do is too much. But the real question is why the grind? These rewards aren’t worth it, not even the mods are which were for some reason cheaper than the things that provide no in game advantage (going back to hostile mergers for a third time), at least the grind for the opticor vandal was somewhat understandable as it is a pretty good weapon but over 25 minutes of grinding ( again before the hotfix) for a ball that looks a bit different to one that’s half its price just isn’t reasonable and in itself is an insult as DE assumes that people would find it acceptable for that much effort for such minimal reward, sure you could just not do it but that’s beside the point

Edited by (PS4)connort54321

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33 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

I honestly think the rewards themselves are fine as they are for a cutsie little fun throw away event.  That doesn't bother me so much as the fact that the grind is absurd in an absolutely boring as hell repetitive loop.  

I won't argue that PS and Buried Debts are boring as dog poop, because they are indeed a mindless slog, but at least there is some kind of variety and diversity and something that allows you to control the experience as a variable if you're geared for it and the rewards, at least for PS, have appeal to keep you going (because more forma is always good)... and while stripping that away for this event was half the fun, it very much becomes very unfun when you have to grind it for hours upon hours to get any of the rewards you might want... which brings me to the actual problem I have of DE abdicating responsibility for the crappy grind that caused players in droves to abuse the exploit, and then blame said players rather than owning it themselves. 

That's my real gripe.

I can and have been very patient with them on a wide myriad of failures, but the moment someone starts blaming their shortcomings on others that's when I have my patience run out instantly.

Exactly.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, (PS4)connort54321 said:

Rewards aren’t a problem like you say, my only complaint is that we don’t get the soakatron, I would really like to see someone make it a eidolon hunting weapon lol. But the effort needed for those rewards wasn’t worth it in the state that the event was in, I mean 100 pearls for a shader of yellow and blue? It’s not worth it. After doing all the event missions the only thing I could buy was those colours which is disappointing as I personally I like to collect something from every event that’s a  trophy from the it, so to speak, that’s the only reason I grinded this event for a few games them as I don’t strive to collect everything, just one memorable one, such as the beach ball floof. However a bug caused it to fall out of my orbiter( that’s the reason I stumbled across this thread actually) so I had to farm for it again, but this was after the patch had deployed so it was easier but not to the point that we were being gave them for free, which is how it should be. After farming for the second time and deciding to get one of the more expensive balls, a emblem and the colour pallet (my friend was grinding for the scene so I joined him as I was waiting for Him anyway and had a few Hundred pearls to spare after the floof) and I couldn’t help but think “wouldn’t it be much better for everyone if it was just like this from the beginning?” People wouldn’t be exploiting bugs nearly as much if these events were released in a enjoyable state, I mean going back to hostile mergers, wasn’t their a bug that people exploited because it was boring that resulted in a similar outcome as this? You’d think DE would get the message that what they are making is do is too much. But the real question is why the grind? These rewards aren’t worth it, not even the mods are which were for some reason cheaper than the things that provide no in game advantage (going back to hostile mergers for a third time), at least the grind for the opticor vandal was somewhat understandable as it is a pretty good weapon but over 25 minutes of grinding ( again before the hotfix) for a ball that looks a bit different to one that’s half its price just isn’t reasonable and in itself is an insult as DE assumes that people would find it acceptable for that much effort for such minimal reward, sure you could just not do it but that’s beside the point

I mean obviously some people are really into the rewards, the ball with physics is a hugely popular item for a lot of people, even with the absurd grind I got one for my dojo for our lunaro field... that said I don't know that anyone is say at all:

"You know what feels awesome?  Grinding for these rewards for hours in the intended gameplay loop.  That's how I want to spend my weekend!"

Of course there is always one, but the problem is that the vast majority of people would rather exploit it because of the insane grind for silly rewards.

The game mode could have had other nice things like pool noodle melee and water baloon bombs... but I'll give DE a break on that, maybe next year, this was just supposed to be a cute side thing to give players a break from repetition, and that is welcome and appreciated... but the level of grind involved on a loop that is soooo FRICKEN boring after the first half hour is absolutely disgusting... but again, I can even forgive that if they work to amend it, which is what annoys me, because I'm reasonable in that way.

What I'm not OK is with DE putting out a half baked piece of trash, and then blaming the players.  That's not cool at all, and it's scummy and they should know that this is completely unacceptable without being told, which begs the question, why even say it then?

Like I said in the OP, it's the same thing as the ooblets issue... they are managing a sensitive situation that is important, and that's good... but that's not the time to antagonize and blame the player base.  

 

Edited by Klokwerkaos

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Also a lot of people have criticized the OP for not having constructive criticism, so here goes:

Pearls counting towards kills was implemented and that's something I yelled about, and I'm glad to see it in.  Not sure if kill assists are in, but they should be.

Stuff to add next year:  Pool Noodle Spin to Win Melee (though pool noodles, even when soaked don't make you very wet, so probably minimal damage), Water Bombs that are AoE Target, possibly with self damage that do extra damage and have a crappy uncontrolled lob function.

Reduce the grind.  A highly skilled player should reasonably be able to grind a ball in 15 minutes, 30 for an unskilled one.

Cut the Timer and make it a kill count.

Introduce Kaela as a boss.

All of that would still be cheeky, fun, and actually make the silly rewards feel far more rewarding.  An Hour for a ball is not OK.


 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Klokwerkaos said:

I mean obviously some people are really into the rewards, the ball with physics is a hugely popular item for a lot of people, even with the absurd grind I got one for my dojo for our lunaro field... that said I don't know that anyone is say at all:

"You know what feels awesome?  Grinding for these rewards for hours in the intended gameplay loop.  That's how I want to spend my weekend!"

Of course there is always one, but the problem is that the vast majority of people would rather exploit it because of the insane grind for silly rewards.

The game mode could have had other nice things like pool noodle melee and water baloon bombs... but I'll give DE a break on that, maybe next year, this was just supposed to be a cute side thing to give players a break from repetition, and that is welcome and appreciated... but the level of grind involved on a loop that is soooo FRICKEN boring after the first half hour is absolutely disgusting... but again, I can even forgive that if they work to amend it, which is what annoys me, because I'm reasonable in that way.

What I'm not OK is with DE putting out a half baked piece of trash, and then blaming the players.  That's not cool at all, and it's scummy and they should know that this is completely unacceptable without being told, which begs the question, why even say it then?

Like I said in the OP, it's the same thing as the ooblets issue... they are managing a sensitive situation that is important, and that's good... but that's not the time to antagonize and blame the player base.  

 

I mean the fact that it’s bugged to the point pausing allows you to win shows just how little effort was put into making the event, which is fine because it is indeed just a fun little event, however the lack of simple play testing ( because let’s be honest, if you can bug the mode by pausing the game then there has clearly been no testing) shows how little Care the devs have for this game. So why should we put in the effort of killing things for five minutes for no extra reward (prior to patch) when we could just get a kill and then do the bug. blaming the playerbase for their lack of effort to test the most basic of game mechanics is just a huge middle finger to the people who have spent money to support DE so they can improve this game and test for bugs which clearly never happens as y’know YOU CAN PRESS THE PAUSE BUTTON TO BUG THE GAME

Edited by (PS4)connort54321
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2 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

Not sure if kill assists are in, but they should be.

They should split the total kills, by percentage damage done, and add to the base number of pearls. That way the people doing the lion's share of the killing, get the lion's share of the rewards. 

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