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Klokwerkaos

Dog Days Exploit Hot Fix Red Text, Don't talk down at your supporters DE

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49 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

They should split the total kills, by percentage damage done, and add to the base number of pearls. That way the people doing the lion's share of the killing, get the lion's share of the rewards. 

The flaw with this is kill stealing, do most of the damage and someone runs in and gets credit for your 'lion's work". 

 

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People are getting bent about a silly side event about floofs...  FLOOFS MAN. Go out and have a beer.

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4 minutes ago, Falseliberty said:

People are getting bent about a silly side event about floofs...  FLOOFS MAN. Go out and have a beer.

I mean it was just a silly event....Until DE expected us to play it up to 80 freaking times. And then accused us of saying the game is boring yet we actively try and avoid participating in content. When in reality we were avoiding participating in this event as much as possible because it did get boring very very quickly.

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26 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I mean it was just a silly event....Until DE expected us to play it up to 80 freaking times. And then accused us of saying the game is boring yet we actively try and avoid participating in content. When in reality we were avoiding participating in this event as much as possible because it did get boring very very quickly.

And because of that, it went from a silly event to... A silly event. It didn't change anything.

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1 hour ago, Tinklzs said:

The flaw with this is kill stealing, do most of the damage and someone runs in and gets credit for your 'lion's work". 

 

No, that's the flaw of the current system. By allocating pearls based on damage dealt we all get pearls based on all the shots we landed, not who landed the last shot. That's what I propose it be shifted to at some point. 

Personally I suspect that it'll all balance out in the end, but I've also repeatedly seen the kill counts on the two screens not matching up. So damage is the fairest metric I can think of. 

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10 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

This^.  I’m on VF’s side.  Keep combat evolving and engaging, and central to the game...a massive power trip as you work to challenge “tenured” (I’m so TIRED of Vet as a term because different players have different levels of motivation for various aspects of the game).

OP’s concise, thoughtful rant makes his point on what is important to him.

I just want Power Fantasy combat to continue to be this game’s defining feature (and that means with a valid looter-shooter mechanic, I.e. combat can earn you everything) and for the trend of non-combat timesink dilution to stop.

You can keep floofs, waterguns, excessive loot-resource-economy micro-loops, snowboarding, animal conservation, mini-games, and everything else you’ve sunk resources into if it means the game I advocate for gives me the:

COMBAT.  LORE.  BEAUTIFUL ART DESIGN.

that drew me in years ago.

A recent gripe to give an example, Terra units and their massive CC, I want their CC to just be tickles so I can basically bounce back 3 times harder onto them with any frame I like to play, that would even make the profit taker fight tolerable, instant kills, dispels and immunities are pure garbage, people complain about enemies dying too fast, I would complain about enemies killing me too fast unless I am Inaros or one of the others.

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Eh? expected? Are you really expected to get ALL the things? I just thought it was a fun little thing where you got a 1 maybe 2 toys for your pet. I think some of you are being very hard on yourselves. You almost make this sound like it's your job man. To give benefit of doubt IF this was a more serious  tactical alert ( including exclusive mods and weapons)I prob would side with ya.   But its just fluff man

 

I hope next year its mandatory ivara and ur a grown up squid kid and u have to "ink" the zone.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

No, that's the flaw of the current system. By allocating pearls based on damage dealt we all get pearls based on all the shots we landed, not who landed the last shot. That's what I propose it be shifted to at some point. 

Personally I suspect that it'll all balance out in the end, but I've also repeatedly seen the kill counts on the two screens not matching up. So damage is the fairest metric I can think of. 

My apologies I read your initial post wrong, I thought you were defending the current system.

It is a slipper slope, there is no 'quick fix' here, because any one solution can breed new problems. We went from players not being rewarded to now kill stealing is more profitable. I think damage done would be the 'fairest of them all' but I don't know - I don't have an eight ball.

2 hours ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

A recent gripe to give an example, Terra units and their massive CC, I want their CC to just be tickles so I can basically bounce back 3 times harder onto them with any frame I like to play, that would even make the profit taker fight tolerable, instant kills, dispels and immunities are pure garbage, people complain about enemies dying too fast, I would complain about enemies killing me too fast unless I am Inaros or one of the others.

Well enemies kill us fast because we have the power to instantly kill them. When you get power creep like we have the only balance checks is invincibility phases (like almost all bosses have), and high burst damage, which most enemies have past level 50.  When we get to sortie territory and beyond 60+ is when you see power creep go up to 11, because of the damage they can put out, but we can still kill them past level 9000.

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24 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

Well enemies kill us fast because we have the power to instantly kill them. When you get power creep like we have the only balance checks is invincibility phases (like almost all bosses have), and high burst damage, which most enemies have past level 50.  When we get to sortie territory and beyond 60+ is when you see power creep go up to 11, because of the damage they can put out, but we can still kill them past level 9000.

Which goes against the power fantasy some of us would like to experience or thought we would experience in Warframe at the beginning.

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14 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

I should have clarified better, if such a thing were implemented then I would want it to be the very top of the top, the creme de la creme. 

A default mode "raid" or "trial" or "high tier mission" that you can run, yourself, without too much fuss (although fuss should be a factor due to being a lone Tenno). But if you want the harder version with the better drop rates, different cosmetics or just bragging rights, then imo that needs to require co-operation. 

Ok, more of the same rewards or bragging cosmetics, in content that is still playable without a team, that's fine. I retract my aggro.

14 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

I'm not entirely certain what a popularity contest has to do with this?

All forced teaming content devolves into a popularity contest, because unique/exclusive rewards push people who don't want to team into teams because they have no other options. People who don't want to team are overwhelmingly more problematic in teams, which breeds resentment in those who want to be there which breeds elitism in the orgainsation of the teams for the forced teaming content. Ultimatly the majority of the "content" sudedenly becomes the organisation of the popularity contest of who gets into the organised teams, and the identification and rejection of those who are deemed "undesirtable"

This is where the "50-DKP minus" culture comes from and it all orginates when a game company suddenly throttles the amount of content because you're in "endgame" and the majority of the time investment suddenly has to be social group maintainance if you want to participate in the sparce "endgame" content

Really it's just another form of "Player Created Content" just the toxic interpersonal conflict end of the barrel.

  • PvP is "Player Created Content" by creating interpersonal conflict in a game context
  • "Raids" (Forced teaming content) is "Player Created Content" by creating interpersonal conflict in a social context

I've been playing online cames since Quake and and those 20+ years I have yet to be proved wrong in this view.

 

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4 hours ago, Tinklzs said:

It is a slipper slope, there is no 'quick fix' here, because any one solution can breed new problems. We went from players not being rewarded to now kill stealing is more profitable. I think damage done would be the 'fairest of them all' but I don't know - I don't have an eight ball.

Agreed, the only reason I would suggest it is that I can see no way to game it. Damage leads to kills, kills lead to pearls above the base amount. 

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I would just like to be able to donate a Floof Ball to the Dojo and hold some 'fun' competitions. Please DE, please 🙂 

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honestly after reading this post and every comment along the thread, i find it unsurprising how de handled this. Dog days may have been fun for a few hours but it is not worth my time to spend anymore than a day in it of its entirety because of how utterly boring it is. I frankly dont give 2 sh%$ts about those who say dog days is just a mini event and is meant to be about fun and crap, because that thinking is muddling op's point and overlooking glaring flashing neon signs that has been shown years on end. but in all honesty, ever since de nerfed the loot synergy and made hydroid basically useless, im convinced they havent played their own game enough to actually see the issues regular players and vets have. And it will continue and never stop because of the overly sensitive people in the thread that left worthless posts trying to discredit op's points and not contributing to the topic at hand, these type of people is whats killing this game's progress.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)ChaosTheNerd said:

honestly after reading this post and every comment along the thread, i find it unsurprising how de handled this. 

IIRC It's the same thing, topics like this will happen and nothing will be done about it, no apologizes that they did wrong etc, it's the same with the content part of this topic, if the newest updates we've had the past 2-3 weeks, tells you anything. The update that started it all, a reskin event. An skin for a frame and hotfix after hotfix and 25 6.0 is just a QOL update for already existing items in the game.

It's a shame to see this unfold without anything to clear the way, but it is what it is.

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16 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

Also a lot of people have criticized the OP for not having constructive criticism, so here goes:

 

Current-day definition of constructive criticism: Truth communicated in a way that doesn't hurt my fee-fees. OP is criticized for not catering to the notion of offensiveness, as it should be done.

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On 2019-08-07 at 4:58 AM, DeMonkey said:

Endgame content cannot exist until our power is reigne

uve been hearing this but what does it really mean? 

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On 2019-08-06 at 10:41 PM, Klokwerkaos said:

Red text read at 2 min mark: "We will be running a test to see if there is a correlation between people using this exploit and people who complain that warframe is boring".

From what patch is this? I checked the red text on the 4 latest patches and I can't see this line.

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3 minutes ago, Emolition said:

From what patch is this? I checked the red text on the 4 latest patches and I can't see this line. You just making stuff up to try get ppl to hate on something?

edre6azlyve31.png

Not saying that the complaint's are 100% right, but before accusing someone of bashing, some due diligence is generally a good thing. 

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1 minute ago, sleepychewbacca said:

edre6azlyve31.png

Not saying that the complaint's are 100% right, but before accusing someone of bashing, some due diligence is generally a good thing. 

Don't mean to bash anyone was just curious as non of the patch notes I looked in had that red text to them. Better to make sure its real then jumping on a train and start hating if its all a lie. Or maybe its better to shoot first and ask questions later.

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Just now, Emolition said:

Don't mean to bash anyone was just curious as non of the patch notes I looked in had that red text to them. Better to make sure its real then jumping on a train and start hating if its all a lie. Or maybe its better to shoot first and ask questions later.

Generally, when there's a hot issue topic, asking if "just making stuff up to try get ppl to hate", is not really the best way to frame it haha. 

It's a bit tone deaf, doubly since it comes off as accusing those who are frustrated of being a liar. 

Thus more frustration. Doubly since it took me... 10-15 seconds and a google search to find a screenshot of said red text? 

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11 minutes ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

uve been hearing this but what does it really mean? 

We're too powerful. You can't make an engaging combat challenge when we can lock down and wipe out an entire map's worth of enemies with the push of a button.

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1 minute ago, sleepychewbacca said:

Generally, when there's a hot issue topic, asking if "just making stuff up to try get ppl to hate", is not really the best way to frame it haha. 

It's a bit tone deaf, doubly since it comes off as accusing those who are frustrated of being a liar. 

Thus more frustration. Doubly since it took me... 10-15 seconds and a google search to find a screenshot of said red text? 

ok will edit that last part then as i got my question answered.

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2 minutes ago, Corvid said:

We're too powerful. You can't make an engaging combat challenge when we can lock down and wipe out an entire map's worth of enemies with the push of a button.

ah so the meaning of reign is nerf. 

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On 2019-08-06 at 4:41 PM, Klokwerkaos said:

Players have legitimate reasons to be frustrated with you and your failure to provide rewarding endgame content of any kind for literally YEARS at this point. 

Love how all those "smart players" have yet to get the hint, after YEARS of playing the game: You are not getting "the rewarding endgame" content...at any point anytime soon.

I have learned to take Warframe for what it always had been, a casual looter shooter with borrowed mechanics from other genres, while not letting any of those define the game itself.
Yes, Warframe is a monster grinder of repetitive content to no end (sad that most players need to be told this in a redundant, repetitive way in this time and age: +1 to redtext)

On 2019-08-06 at 4:58 PM, DeMonkey said:

Endgame content cannot exist until our power is reigned in such that there is actually a level that can be defined as "endgame", and frankly the gameplay actually needs to resemble that of a "game" instead of invisible, unkillable frames dealing 5 billion damage to enemies with 10 thousand health. And unfortunately any attempts to suggest such methods for reigning in our power so that an "endgame" can be more than a pipe dream is met with vitriol and ridicule. We can't have both scaling frames (to this degree) and endgame content at the same time.

Also, General Discussion?

+1

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19 hours ago, Tinklzs said:

While I haven't played Destiny 2, but have played Borderlands 1 / 2 + 100%'d KF2, I'd say it should be a mix between all three. 

In borderlands when you encounter a tanky boss enemy, you can use your elemental damages + abilities to help speed up the time to kill. In Killing Floor 2, there is a 'tier' system, not only for difficulty (and how the AI changes a bit per difficulty, like maybe fleshpounds will spawn enraged on HoE but not on Hard).  I think the main thing that separates Warframe from the rest is the parkour system, so we use that to our advantage.  NOX's could be your mini-boss borderlands/KF2 style, lots of health with 1-2 weakpoints that you mag dump. Then we'd have a bit squisher mini-boss assassination types like snipers with mobility jetpacks (think of them dashing from wall to wall quickly, like manic's do on the ground) and you'd have to kill them somewhat quickly otherwise you might get your health chunked.  Then buff manic's a bit more so they're more threatening if they do pin you down, more damage for them + a bit faster for them to pin players down.

I think these mini-bosses would be added at level 70-100 range. So if it's your first time playing sortie survival for example, the first 5 minutes would be 60-65 range, then the last 5 would be 66-70 range (meaning you'd encounter a mini-boss before leaving). Which would help introduce players to this concept. These mini-bosses would be similar to zanuka/G3, where they're announced (kind of like the Jedi/Sith Heroes in the Original Star Wars Battlefront 2, where they say a voiceline then arrive on battlefield).   So players know they're on the field and can be attacked, they would drop from a unique loot table exclusive to them, with cosmetics, blueprints and resources. 

In order to have mini-bosses and actual bosses that're threatening we need to establish a power ceiling. Otherwise, like you said, nothing would be challenging. Star chart would be power fantasy territory, how we are now, is how we would be in star chart farming stuff. When you get to level 70 + stuff (endurance runs or what have you), that is where paying attention and planning ahead will be necessary. Just like in KF2 or a similar game, Payday 2.  So you fight star chart enemies (upwards to 60) for farming stuff, scaling would be much slower to compensate for this, then as you get past 70 mini-bosses start showing up etc.  They could add a difficulty 'want to start here" system, where you could start near mini-boss (70) if you wanted eventually endurance runs would scale to level 100-125 range (end of sortie and go as high as 125 which would be raids). 

So level 100 would be like Heroic Raids in WoW, and "Warframe Raids" would be Mystical (just similar comparisons for simplicity sake).

 

Indeed. I think the important part you bring up is regarding how important different damage types are in a game such as borderlands. If you come ill-prepared for a different type of enemy you are SoL. You can either go with the fairly safe "physical" setup which handles most things decently when paired up with a slag source in UVHM/OP1+ for instance or you can go with a more specific setup (electricity+corrosive+fire along with either slag or a physical option incase your class already applies slag well enough). Personally I prefer the near full physical options, likely because I play Commando and Siren mostly that can both apply slag easily. My type of choice besides physical tends to be one electrical weapon along with electrical chair grenade.

I also like the idea about very mobile sniper units, give them a deadly attack and we need to pay attention. I think that is what we need in the game, more "graphed" mechanics on attacks where a hit is dangerous to our frames. Nox could easily be turned into a mini-boss and I think the rampage after popping his helmet should be far more rampagey. Manics should also be a far more common and dangerous sight across the mission.

I hope DE have some ideas how to balance thing out when we get to Tau. And not just more of the same old render-you-frame-powers-useless-cos-we-are-immune-and-laugh-in-your-face kinda things.

23 hours ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

Not that it'd make much of a difference to your point, just a little nitpick:

In order to half the number of neccessary runs (50%) they'd actually have to to double the average pearl yield, meaning an increase of 100%. (While the 50% you mentioned (+-25 pearls) sounds plausible from my experience)

I agree with lots of OPS sentiments, as far as the event at hand is concerned tho: I couldn't care less really. Is there anything more vain and superfluous in this game than "floofs" and Captura? I think not. Also DE said the event would return, so really no need to cramp that (admittedly rather ridiculous considering its monotonous nature) grind time into these 10 days.

Yep, true. That was just me going full stupid with the 50% run reduction. Thanks for pointing it out.

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